We can't point fingers about spying--because Dems broke Constitution too

[mrhopeforwes]

when they authorized the resolution for Bush to go into Iraq sans Congress.

[Birthmark]

1. Nonsense. That is all.

[mrhopeforwes]

17. wow, that's some really incisive arguing skills there

[Birthmark]

37. Why elaborate? I don't run around proving the sky blue, either.

[teach1st]

2. I can point fingers about spying..

...and I will.

Did the resolution say that the administration could circumvent established law and the Constitution?

[Maddy McCall]

3. Wow. That's brilliant logic.

:eyes:

[ticapnews]

4. Um. No.

That's incorrect. No soup for you.

[mrhopeforwes]

20. pssst, fellow Clarkie, for you only....

putting aside whether or not it's accurate to say that it was unconstitutional for Congress to abdicate its authority to wage war, I've got a short story being published soon about what a mistake it was to not have Wes as the nominee. leave me your email and I'll forward it.

[marylanddem]

5. Bullshit. n/t

[Webster Green]

6. Care to elaborate on that staterment?

How did they violate the US Constitution by voting to authorize force if deemed necessary by the **Resident?

[mrhopeforwes]

21. because they gave him a blank check, but Congress is not authorized...

to abdicate its authority to wage war. All they had to do was listen to Clark and put the provision in that Bush MUST come back to congress.

[Webster Green]

30. I agree, but I don't think the authorization violates the Constitution....

You could argue that it does, but it would be a tough fight.

The chimp's domestic spying is a clear violation of the fourth ammendment.

[rd_kent]

7. What does THAT have to do with spying?

Besides, Congress was DUPED into giving support. What rock have you just crawled out from under? That info is public knowledge.

[Dr.Phool]

18. I get sick and tired of this DUPED bullshit

The fact of the matter is that they lacked the political backbone to oppose shrub. I knew it was all bullshit. Scott Ritter was screaming that it was all bullshit. Paul Wellstone knew it was bullshit.

Duped my ass. Political cowardice.

[mrhopeforwes]

27. THANK YOU, DR. PHOOL

Please tell your friends!!!! :)

[rd_kent]

39. I cannot argue against that!

You are right. Cowards. Most of them still are and only grow a set when the political wind is blowing in their direction. But in their defense, it is a fact that they were not provided with accurate info and made a decision on that.

[mrhopeforwes]

22. Duped? How so? you mean they trusted him?

[Ready4Change]

32. Congress wasn't given ALL the intelligence.

We now know that Congress was only given cherry picked intelligence, rather than all the facts. They weren't informed of how the intelligence came from suspect sources, how that intelligence was overwhelmingly refuted by many other, more credible and less suspect sources. And how many in our own intelligence community disagreed with that tainted intelligence.

We also know that, at the time, several members of the intelligence committes in the Congress, who had a more complete picture of the intelligence available, strongly disputed the conclusions being drawn, but were forced to remain silent on the matter for so-called security reasons.

[mazzarro]

8. How is that? n/t

[tx_dem41]

9. Ummm....no they didn't.

Nice try though.

[Zynx]

10. You put A and N together and got C. I put A and N together and got

no solution. Could you show me your work please?

[skygazer]

11. Hmmm.... where'd you get that info?

Fox News?

[Oversea Visitor]

12. Here Kitty Kitty Kitty

Meow meow, 911, terror terror terror, we fight them there so we dont have to fight YOU here, Al Queda
OBL, if we leave they attack us, SPY SPY SPY, torture torture torture, and finally DEM did it.

Reality.... 2156 dead Americans and rising
Thousands and Thousands of innocents children and women kill and rising
500 billion spend and rising
8.179 in defecits and rising

Please come out with a better plan.
I mean this one broken brain still brand new hey come up with better thinking very good and healthy.

AND DONT HIDE BEHIND THE KITTY. x(

[GatoLover]

13. sans Congress

How does a Congressional resolution authorizing force translate to "sans Congress." Isn't Congress complicent?

[mrhopeforwes]

23. "complicent" isn't a word, it's "complicit"...

the wording allowed Bush to not have to come back to Congress. That simple. We on this site should already be aware of this.

[GatoLover]

33. I'm actually pretty good at spelling - thanks!

I knew it didn't look right. :-)

[Norquist Nemesis]

14. Really? When did Dems do that???

It seems to me that Congress outlined some fairly specific steps for Bush to take, and use of force was to be a last resort. For some reason, Bush seemed to think that was a green light to deploy the military like a rock skipping across the pond toward Iraq!

After all that, it would have been a little hard to explain to the Rush Limbaughs and Ann Coulters why he suddenly turned around 150,000 troops. It would have been the death of his presidency...in a post-9/11 world, of course.

[calico1]

15. Which Dems?

Dems that are not part of Congress?

Sounds like good freeper logic to me.

[mrhopeforwes]

25. Dems like Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman, Clinton

[hwmnbn]

16. For sure, most got caught up in the emotional fever.......

of the push for war. It was the politically expedient thing to do and now, it's come back to bite them in the ass. They have been de-fanged by their own actions. They can only plead buyer's remorse now because they were deceived.

They've been deceived again on this spy issue, so they are putting up a real fight now. I'd call that progress.

Hopefully they've learned that consistent principles in the long run, will always trump political expediency. You'd think they would have known that.

[calico1]

19. The also didn't have all the information the

Administration had which the admin has claimed they did.

[mrhopeforwes]

31. my point exactly!...they shouldn't have trusted shrub!!

[calico1]

35. On that point I agree with you.

Especially knowing what a crook he is. However, they did not violate the Constitution. You are comparing two things that are not the same.

[hwmnbn]

36. I agree, they were deceived........

But Senator Byrd wrote in his book, when they passed that authorization, they were abrogating their responsibility under the Constitution. Only congress has the authority to declare war. They handed over that authority to the executive branch. He called it the "low point" of the Congress since he's been in office.

The chimp took that "unconstitutional" authorization and ran with it UNCHECKED. Here we are today.

[mrhopeforwes]

26. sad that on this site, you're the only one aware of the truth

[acmejack]

24. This is your brain on drugs!

Or maybe kool aid.

[Lerkfish]

28. blather blather blather blah blah blah...

blah blah blah can't blame republicans blather blather because we're just as guilty blah blah blah.

[SteppingRazor]

29. What Dems did isn't unconstitutional...

Granting the president the power to wage war in a particular instance is a legitimate use of Congress' power to declare war -- see the Vietnam War, the Korean War, Grenada, Panama, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

In fact, I believe there's a SCOTUS case that says as much. It may have been politically cowardly, but it wasn't unconstitutional

[mrhopeforwes]

34. dude, they told him he was supposed to COME BACK to Congress!!!!!

...but didn't put it in writing!!! They weren't authorizing him to wage war AT THAT POINT, only IF--as in contingent upon--stuff played out a certain way.

[hwmnbn]

44. Now I've got to double-check my facts.....

about declarations of war throughout american history. And I still have christmas crap to do!

Thanksalot, SteppingRazor!

I feel we're getting mired in the minutia of legal language. We know what the chimp did was wrong. The fact our dems couldn't stop him then, for whatever reason, is what's painful.

[Oversea Visitor]

38. You are so transparent

"We can't point fingers about spying"....:rofl: WHY CAN"T WE, WHY SHOULDN'T WE? Answer please :rofl:

"--because Dems broke Constitution too"... :rofl: Why not still use "we" why change to DEMS. Are you NOT A DEMS. Pray tell us how DEMS break the constitution.

"when they authorized the resolution for Bush to go into Iraq"

That will be constested I am sure. Cause they were told WMD, Al Queda and so on and we dont really know what kind of intelligence they were given. So lets just wait for answer.
Only thing for sure Bush claim congress see the same intelligence as he did. Well the ball at the congress feet so let see the facts.

What is so clear is the usage of WE... DEMS...they. Why not go to freerepublic and post this crap.
If you a dems and you want to shoot yourself in the head do it with some style :rofl:

[emulatorloo]

40. Damnit it is time to blame Bush for his crimes.

Your post could have been generated by Karl Rove or Ken Mehlman.

BUSH IS TO BLAME FOR BUSH's CRIMES. Not everybody else.

[sinkingfeeling]

41. And the AG, Cheney, and Bush are dreaming if they see anything

in the IWR relating to spying on Americans! I'd like Cheney to show me where in the US Constitution or even the Iraqi one, it says the President is above the law.

[emulatorloo]

42. Sadly our friend has been tombstoned. . .BYE BYE

:hi:

[hwmnbn]

46. What????...how do you know?......

[rd_kent]

48. Why?

I was interesting watching him present these flawed arguments. Why did he get banned? He wasnt being disrespectful, I didnt think, he was just an idiot!!!

[kay1864]

43. TOMBSTONED! Ho ho ho...

Merry Xmas!

[Oversea Visitor]

45. Ooops

RIP tombstoned. Mods stole my kitty. :cry:

[Doctor_J]

47. mrhope, are you trying to set a record for

shortest stay here? Go back to drudge, where you'll find more soulmates.

[kenny blankenship]

49. What crap

just because the IWR didn't expressly forbid Bush from raping girl scouts doesn't mean he's justified in doing it.

[The Magistrate]

50. Locking

The O.P. is no longer among us....