So what, if anything, does the Iraq election mean?

[Cary]

The Freeps are beating their chests and declaring vindication of the invasion. Of course this is what Freeps do.

Does anyone have a more sober analysis?

[Loonman]

1. Damned if I know...

Or care. Iraqis voting isn't putting food on any American's table or heating their homes.

[FreedomAngel82]

2. I was talking about this earlier

with my mother and we agreed it was more of them telling us to get the fuck out. I read there are 6,000 canidates. How are you supposed to know what you're voting for? I remember with the first "election" reading that canidates could speak on tv in Iraq but they were really putting themselves at risk for getting attacked. I just think it's a big mess and shouldn't be anything to be prouding around. Especially if it's going to be an Islamic theocracy where before it wasn't.

[Cary]

4. Excellent points.

And time will tell all, of course.

I find it sad/funny that Freeps tend to project. They accuse us of politicising the war and hoping for U.S. losses. Ironically, if you think about it, by doing this they're actually drawing the line that is encouraging people to hope for U.S. losses. They're the ones politicising it and doing exactly that which they accuse us of.

In reality, as opposed to the Freep fantasy baseball league wherein they live vicariously, we all win or we all lose. If the U.S. prevails we all win. If the U.S. loses we all lose. And we must focus on reality since there is a real cost, as opposed to fantasy where there is no gain.

If we're "winning" something here we need to examine that.

[emulatorloo]

10. Just vote for Chalabi and STFU n/t

[BOSSHOG]

3. It means that

the targets for assasination by "insurgents" are now clearly identified.

It also means that conservative supporters of bush have obviously forgotten about why we went to war. bush and his crew have done a great job of confusing and leading the small minded citizens of our country who are so incredibly high maintenance but it was always WMD. They beat their chests, jump up and down on all fours and pick their butts and egg each other on to hate in the name of Jesus Christ.

[One_Life_To_Give]

5. Hope maybe

There are alot of "IF's but;
This could be a good sign for the people and country of Iraq. And maybe we can get the cons to agree to bring the troops home.

[MrBenchley]

6. We've turned the light at the end of the corner

Tomorrow it's back to the same old shit, just as if nothing had happened....

[win_in_06]

7. Freeps are beating their chests to "celebrate democracy" in the mideast

[FrenchieCat]

8. According to Wes Clark in some interviews.....

It gives us about 10,000 more chances to screw things up along the way....and when something wrong can happen, betcha bottom dollar, with this administration calling the shots, it will. :eyes:

WES CLARK: "the real challenge is... after they vote, and the National Assembly is
formed, will that Constitution be changed to give more weight to Sunni
concerns.

Most of the people who are close to the Shias tell me that they will NOT concede
on the two key issues, which is the control of the oil revenues, they want the
oil revenues to stay with the Shia dominated area in the South, not go to the central
government and they will not concede on their ability to set up a separate Shia-like set of provinces in the South, that's almost like a mini-State.

And so, if they do not concede on those two issues, itÕs going to be very difficult. You know, if you look back at American history, we had to a civil war to try to resolve whether we were going to be one nation or not. And a lot of people voted in the South in 1860 in that election,
and it didn't stop a civil war.

So it really is going to depend on how astute the U.S. ambassador is there and the military leadership on the ground to be able to transfer our military power into political leverage to persuade the Shias and Kurds to give up something for their own good to keep Iraq together.
http://securingamerica.com/files/Fox051214.mp3


AND TODAY, Clark was interviewed (no transcript yet) and basically stated he thinks it will be a struggle for them to win the changes in the direction of the new Iraq that they need (more respect for secular choices over strict fundamentalism, fair sharing of oil revenues, no near break away southern Shiite State etc.)

He said negotiations will be much more difficult to conclude successfully because "this time it's for keeps". U.S. must use the leverage that Shites still wanting us to provide security for them gives us to prod diplomacy toward legitimate compromises on key constitutional issues. Failure to reach an agreement accepted by all can lead to Iraq flying apart at the seams.

He also said that Iran is watching closely to see if they can expand their influence with the permanent Iraq government.

Answer to interviewer's question of something to the effect of "Isn't it great to see democratic elections in Iraq?".

Clark deftly started his answer with, "It's exciting, isn't it? But will this be a one time only "democratic election"? (that's probably not an exact quote, but close).

[jimshoes]

9. What it means is

now they can sign away the rights to the oil legally to bushie's pals.

[Lexingtonian]

11. well, it's sorta like the U.S. election in 1860

Everyone's voting and almost no one's actually putting the Constitution and federalism higher than their tribal interests aka states' rights doctrine. Especially the Iraqis with real power. All three tribal sides have more or less decided on implementing mixes of secessionism for themselves and dominionism over the other two.

It's essentially Yugoslavia circa 1992 as a situation and I don't see how it can possibly end in anything other than civil/tribal war. The peaceful majorities of average people are being run by and unable to resist the totalitarian elites and the emotional power of the historical grievances and running accumulation of crimes they invoke as excuses/justifications for increasing the violence.

Imho this government being put in place amounts to one more forum to settle on and define the particular grievances and claims to domination and parcels of land that will be the terms of the full-blown fighting.

[Parche]

12. iraqi election

It means we lost over 2000 brave US Soldiers so Iraqi's could vote......


Not a fair trade at all...in fact it is a tragedy

[Cary]

14. Sadly. (n/t)

[FrenchieCat]

13. Here's an analysis from the NYT that echoes Clark's "preview"....

Ironically, Iraq's partisan divide reflects the Christian fundamentalist-
Secular split in American politics.


BAGHDAD, Iraq, Thursday, Dec. 15 - Iraqi voters began streaming to the
polls Thursday morning in nationwide elections as Iraqi leaders predicted
that the vote would split almost evenly between secular and Islamist parties
and usher in lengthy political maneuvering.

http://tinyurl.com/cdhy2

[Darranar]

15. Absolutely nothing. Just like the last one.

People vote, and the thugs oppressing them, with US support and compliance, change.