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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:13 PM
Original message
My thoughts on negativity, or what is worth a response
I'm literally wasting hours at the computer poring over the more vapid anti-Kerry threads (which is more my fault than anyone else's). But I think through the experience I've learned something.

Most of these have the same basic structure (paraphrasing):

Here is a list of poorly connected and factually unsubstantited interpretations of Kerry and Kerry-related entities that I ask you, the Kerry supporter, to refute with links and facts. Further, I will cry foul if you complain that it has been posted before. I will also declare victory if you leave without answering all of my follow-up questions, even if you have seen and refuted THOSE before as well. After you supply me with all the links and facts, I will turn around and use the same argument two threads down the road. Thanks!

It's just the way the cookie crumbles--Kerry's "on top" (for the moment) and his supporters are VASTLY in the minority, so many threads will need a response. But I admit I can't keep up with the pace, and it is way too demoralizing to take time to politely refute a petty and uninformed post with links and references only to see the same poster use the same argument again later without a care in the world.

It's this way because the goal in some negative posts is not to "find out" or "give information" about the candidate. The goal is to SMEAR the candidate. Therefore once you take the argument to a "stalemate" or a victory by putting the facts on the table, the poster may well abandon the thread to spread his/her same misinformation elsewhere.

But there are some quite valuable anti-Kerry threads (as there are with any candidate). There are threads that bring to light information that even some stringent research will miss. wtmusic's post concerning the Byrd amendments is one such example, seventhson's posting of the Boston Globe article with an overview analysis of Kerry's early political career is another.

But I really despair to see threads like "Kerry voted to confirm Ashcroft! How do you answer that Kerry fans!?" (he didn't). These facts are readily available.

I tried posting general information threads about Kerry, but that didn't generate the number of responses that a negative thread did, and the same arguments continued. In frustration, I posted a compilation of cited quotes from critical articles lambasting Dean's spotty environmental record in Vermont. I did this to try and put paid to the "Kerry is corporate, Dean is not" posts. That got responses, but the argument continued.

So I think the right idea is to ignore the worthless negative threads entirely. If someone doesn't take the time to look things up and check their facts, why should you? Especially considering that there is a good chance you will see the same argument from the same poster later on.

Why were you so stupid as to respond to these threads anyway, jpgray? Dunno. But this election is SUPREMELY important to me. If I see ANYONE saying "I won't vote for (any likely nominee)", it really upsets me. Those of you who have read my two threads on why this election is so important know why I feel this way.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shine it on
sometimes you just gotta shine it on. It is such a shame really.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm with you jpgray
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isbister Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree
the right idea is to ignore the worthless negative threads
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. You're wasting your time dude.
Edited on Thu Jan-29-04 10:45 PM by Redneck Socialist
Dean got hammered when he was up now it's your guy's turn. The hide thread button is your friend.
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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. let the stupid flamebait threads die
but I'm glad you debate with me in some of my anti Kerry threads...you are always pretty polite and sometimes you kick my ass

:)
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Exactly--don't want to be rude to someone with researched points
Seeing links is always a good sign. :)

And now I go to bed.
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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. nite!!
:)
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. use the ignore thread feature liberally
:) I do.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. My policy is
Liberal use of the hide threads feature, then if I notice certain posters doing the same silly garbage over and over it's easier to use ignore feature.

Also, I keep in mind there are many low post count new members who are possibly stealth freepers trying to have a little fun by posting flame threads. "Get those Dems riled up!" and then sit back and watch the fun is the idea.

These also I tend to put on ignore quickly when I suspect this is the case.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. The problem is not only the negative threads but the negative
responses on positive threads. I give up! I'm just going to ignore them from now on. It's unbelievable to me, a Kerry supporter posts a positive thread about Kerry and surprise, _______ supporters come on with their negative comments.
Personally, I already ingore the negative threads about Kerry, responding keeps them on the front page.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. It's frontrunner syndrome
Edited on Thu Jan-29-04 10:49 PM by jpgray
The best way to deal with it is to ignore the really vapid attacks, debate the reasoned criticism (or agree with it), and AVOID posting the same petty nastiness as a way of getting back.

Just my advice, anyway. Ok, now I really am going to bed. :)
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Usually I post something nice or nothing at all about all of the
candidates. I'm tired also.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. i used to recommend this place to friends
there was a time when we were all in this together ... perhaps that time will come again ...

DU doesn't allow freepers ... it's goal, it seems to me, was to provide an environment where we could work together to build a progressive movement ... it was a great environment because we didn't have to waste all our energy arguing with right wing nuts ...

but your point is well taken ... now we waste all our energy just arguing (pointlessly) with each other ... kudos to the admins for breaking this vast wasteland into a separate forum ...

perhaps someday the animosity will subside and we can all remember we're on the same team ... kerry is not a dlc suckup ... dean is not unstable ... clark is not a republican ... edwards is not too young and inexperienced ... sharpton is not in it to crack one liners ... kucinich does not remind me of mr. spaak ... and lieberman is not as bad as DU makes him out to be ...

i like aspects of all our candidates ... and i'm sickened by those who attack them without merit and without anything constructive in their criticism to help us beat bush ... my days of recommending this place to political friends are long since over ... DU, or at least this forum, has badly lost its way ... and that's too bad ...

i never thought i would call for increased censorship on DU but the current state of affairs is totally intolerable ... and more importantly, it's counter-productive ... surely this is not the mission DU should ascribe to ...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I categorically do not want more rules on this forum
Edited on Thu Jan-29-04 10:52 PM by jpgray
And I don't want the post to be interpreted that way. No one forces you or I to go into a petty negative thread, much less respond to it.

Skinner & Co have given us the "ignore" feature and the "hide" feature. Moreover, they have separated this forum and enacted an already pretty draconian system. More rules don't fix the problem, based on what I've seen. Avoiding the nasty threads may make a difference.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. couple of points
first, i did not interpret your post that way ... the call for more censorship was my idea, not yours ... i did not intend to imply otherwise ...

the reason i think it's needed is that i no longer believe it's possible to have a civil discussion about a candidate on DU ... yes you can put people on ignore (i never do) and yes you can hide threads (i never do) but you cannot have a civil discussion about our candidates ... and that's the bottom line ...

perhaps some feel it benefits their candidate to take shots at other candidates regardless of what is said or what the topic of a given thread is ... maybe they're right, who knows ... but it is not a level-headed analysis of the candidates anymore ... it's a bunch of cheerleaders screaming at each other from opposite sides of the field ...

i just see zero value to the forum in its current state ... i used to come to DU to learn things so that i could convince non-voters or even republicans to support our candidates ... it's pretty hard to learn much around here now ... the choice is not participating (hide, ignore, leave) or calling for administrative changes to improve the situation ... i hate to see this resource degraded in this way ... so i chose to call for more rules ... would i prefer to see us converse in a more civil manner without needing more censorship ?? of course i would ... but it seems like that is just no longer possible ...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. LOL, I also don't use either feature :-)
I just don't agree that you can regulate an online society into "good" discussion. People will find a way around even the most restictive system, and plus it would make moderation a chore and a half.

It is possible to have a civil discussion here, and there are threads of great value, but you have to wade through a lot of crap to get to either.

Unless the society itself rejects the pettiness, I can't see rules making it go away. So the only way I know how to do that is lead by example. Unfortunately I'm no paragon of DU virtue--I get as frustrated sometimes as anyone else. :(

But if everyone tried their best to follow the Golden Rule, the board would improve 1,000 times over without any extra moderation. I think after the primaries this will settle down as well, since the enemy of this forum will REALLY be the enemy of this forum--Bush.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Good night Kick (nt)
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Amager Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. "ignore the worthless negative threads entirely"
That's right. A fire can't burn without oxygen.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Good way of putting it. (nt)
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