MSNBC Debate Thread #4

[slinkerwink]

[spooky3]

1. now for health care

[spooky3]

2. TB: In the south there is a premium on politeness

[NashVegas]

4. Gee, Tom, Thanks for the Reminder!

asswipe

[proud patriot]

32. link to thread 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=227700&mesg_id=227700&page=

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. brokaw kinda unnecessarily embarasses Dean

He tells him people in the south are nice and that's why the debate is so calm.

Brokaw is kinda a prick tonight, isn't he?

[spooky3]

10. JK responding to HD's charges on no health bills sponsored were passed

[Toucano]

14. Totally inappropriate.

They don't even try to hide their bias anymore.

Maybe a candidate will get to slam corporate media ownership.

[sistersofmercy]

18. Yes that was a cheap shot.

Brokaw is being a prick tonight.

[slinkerwink]

5. YES! GO DEAN!!!!!!

[arcos]

7. Excellent! n/t

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Why did we get Tom Brokeass to moderate the debate AGAIN?

Excuse me, this is the asshole from the last debate? WTF???? Why is this old ass, washed up corporate whore moderating our debates AGAIN??? After him embarrasing performance last time?

Jesus H. Christ - this kind of shit makes me think we deserve to lose.

[MissB]

9. No, that was Peter Jennings. They all tend to blur at some point. (nt)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. oh, wait I was thinking of Ted Cophole

yeah, they do start to blend. Could we possibly get bigger whores if we tried? Damn, why not Jon Stewart - at least he is funny.

Damn, Dennis Kucinich is kicking ass - AS USUAL! Why the hell isn't he the frontrunner?

[goodhue]

85. media

ignores him
haven't you heard, he's not "electable"

[spooky3]

19. wasn't the last one done by Jennings?

[Kathleen04]

8. Kerry: "Have to know how Congress works"

Swipe at Dean.

[arcos]

17. Dean worked with the Vermont congress n/t

[Hawkeye-X]

133. Too bad Kerry has no experience working with the both sides of the aisle

whilst Dean does!

[goodhue]

11. Dean attacks Kerry

why wont he learn this is no way to win
and Kerry gets the laughs in response
i simply don't get it

[Kathleen04]

20. I heard more 'ooo's

than laughs.

[Guaranteed]

LOL I don't think people understood what Kerry was saying

right away. He delivered it like a burn, but it wasn't- it was a defense.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. does anyone have an audio only link?

Because the MSNBC links sucks - it's unwatchable for me, and I've got a DSL...

[spooky3]

15. sorry, I don't know

[LiberalBushFan]

16. www.kuow.org n/m

[Jack_Dawson]

30. SO much better - thanks!

[dweller]

44. NPR live now. n/t

[Myra]

13. Thanks slinkerwink. More in entitlements, directed to Dean

Tom: cost of medicare will break the bank.

Kerry, in 19 years in senate, sponsered tons of health
care bills and none passed. Dean will get results, as
he did in Vermont!

Response from Kerry: Gotta know how things work in congress
to get things done. (Burn.) Get things passed in bills
where his name isn't affixed. We passed bills Kerry wrote
(he named them, Ryan White...).
We got a lot done...Harry Truman...

[spooky3]

21. Kucinich getting applause on his 4 point plan

[berner59]

40. Kerry's response was great...

Good practice for when Bush starts attacking...rattle off the proof...

Dean should stop attacking though - he needs to hammer out his stand...

Liberman will NEVER go anywhere - soooo whiney!! Tom needs to stop thinking this is about him!!! Short questions please!!

[slinkerwink]

62. proof was that he took credit for other people's bills that were passed

instead of his own.....

[dumpster_baby]

54. we can make ziillionaires like Brokaw pay for Medicare!

Just raise the tax rates on high income types like Brokaw back up, close to what they were 30 years ago--that will pay for Medicare.

[Myra]

22. Tom: Only Kucinich and Sharpton are for single payer health care

Kucinich says we're paying a shit ton (my words) on health care,
problem is health care for *profit*. Who will take care of viewers?
DK's proposal eliminates corporate profits (applause), ad costs,
lobbying costs, (applause)...

Everyone covered!

APPLAUSE.

[goodhue]

23. that's what I offer, they can state what they offer

go DK!

[Toucano]

25. Joe is still going on about being a moderate.

Blah, blah, blah!

[Clark Can WIN]

50. Blah, blah, blah

Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah Blah, blah, blah

Please go home Joe, I'm beggin ya.

[tryanhas]

26. From what I understand

Brokaw is supposedly asking Edwards very few questions.

If that's the case then he is pissing me off!

Give Edwards some face time in his freaking state you idiot...

[sweettater]

Edwards is from North Carolina

[ncrainbowgrrl]

161. Technically, He's 'from' SC, ...

He was born there, anyway and identifies as a person who has SC ties (as well as being the senior senator from NC.)

[Kathleen04]

27. Lieberman: moderate, moderate, moderate

That's his message for tonight.

[Myra]

29. Bla bla bla

Thought I'd elaborate.

[brainshrub]

43. blah blah blah I hate partisanship

I wish Lieberman would go away.

[xultar]

46. blah blah blah, let me explain

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah to clarify blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah washingtion blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I'm a centrist blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I'm a moderate blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[MissB]

51. *snort* Yeah, that about covers it (nt)

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. I hear ya!

Gets OLD....FAST!

[Toucano]

60. Blah, blah, blah.

"I met a security guard at a hotel blah blah blah..."

Not an inspiratonal story, Joe. Flattered you, but inspires no one.

[MIMStigator]

28. Liberman wanted democrats to stand up at Bush speech too

:eyes:

[spooky3]

34. first tough q that Tom's thrown at JL--"then why didn't you do all that

during the Clinton Admin.?"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Not answering why health care didn't pass under Clinton

(i.e. the Republicans sabotaged it)

[cosmicdot]

103. WTF was that all about ... stand up for *

:wtf:

[Skip Intro]

31. Trusting a Doctor with healthcare

that makes sense, doesn't it?

[displacedtexan]

71. Yeah, until they rip out your wife's uterus because

they need to make a boat payment. Then you need a trial lawyer.

[stopbush]

33. Lieberman - staking out the middle ground

in No Man's Land. How does one get excited about day-old Wonder Bread?

[spooky3]

41. TB thinks he's giving a toughie to JE but he should handle it well

[dweller]

69. Joe going out of his way to make sure all know he's centrist

ya know Joe, that wide swath of center sits halfway in the R camp, and you have one foot firmly planted there. Now where is that support from the R members to support it? Where are the centrist, moderate R's fighting the extremist *moron camp? Where are they?

in your dreams Joe.

dp

[Trajan]

35. Joe ! ....

Joe Joe Joe JOEEEEEEEE ! ....

HOW can you be so blind ? ...

SHEEEESH ...

Yeah: ... you have gotten about 6 % of the DEMOCRATS 'together' ...

Thats a start ..

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Oy Vey ,Joe! Shut Up! n/t

[dawgman]

37. Joe toutin' good ol' democratic CENTRISM fuck off pal

[nomaco-10]

38. Brokaw goes out of his way to embarrass then

cuts Dean off at his chance for a rebuttal to Kerry. Why is the media determined to take him out? I intend to find out why.

[Jack_Dawson]

42. Take who out?

[nomaco-10]

52. post edited to add: Dean

[displacedtexan]

48. Edwards needs to slow down.

He's still playing to New England.

[spooky3]

53. he should rework his malpractice answer and leave out

some of it--he has a GREAT plan to deal with the problem but hasn't yet figured out how to condense it to 1 minute

[kentuck]

70. Brokaw is controlling the frame of the debate by...

asking the candidates a certain question but not permitting others to respond to the same question... He should give all of them an opportunity to say something if they feel they did not get the chance..

[Toucano]

45. The format for these debates sucks! n/t

[brainshrub]

49. Can't tell what sucks more:

Brokau or the debate format.

[spooky3]

61. It's not really a debate--candidates aren't really responding to each

other. I wish we could have one of those.

[stopbush]

63. Answer: Lieberman sucks more.

[countmyvote4real]

84. I disagree. We're getting to hear more from the candidates

and there's less competition between various moderators. Plus, Tom’s questions get to the point pretty quickly.

[ACPS65]

47. Enough of Joe already.

Raising his hand to talk, wait your turn. Gimee a break.

[Kathleen04]

55. Al is getting a whole lot of applause

even at times when he's not really saying anything.

[joshcryer]

68. Al is going to get some major numbers in the SC elections.

You watch.

[Kathleen04]

72. I believe it. n/t

[xultar]

56. AL, he listens to the people and he talks to them n/t

[Myra]

57. Edwards question, doctors driven out of business by malpractice suits

Question: Cap on malpractice awards the BFEE wants?

Edwards: Answer, we have best legal system, not perfect.
Need fresh ideas...
Drs can't get reimbursed by HMOs, and malpractice fees going up.
Responsibility should be on lawywers and make sure case is
valid. Keep bogus cases out of system.

Sharpton: Advocates single payer plan (APPLAUSE).
Like Canada.
Others don't go far enough.
Must be single payer!
Take on Rx industry (applause), allowed to do whatever
they want due to DEREGULATION.
Hold Rx companies accountable.
APPLAUSE!

[stopbush]

59. Al - "Courage and audacity to take on the pharmaceuticals"

The man has a way with words. He makes the others look like amateurs.

[spooky3]

64. well, he's made his living with persuasive speech

and you can see why.

[brainshrub]

66. Yeah, that was a good line.

[MissB]

73. Just for fun, I'd like to see him debate Bush

Sort of a last-minute substitution for whoever the eventual nominee is. Gee.... Mr. (fill in nominee here) can't make it tonight, but subbing is the Rev. Al.

That would be fun.

[Myra]

65. Clark: let's make current system work

He gives details (as outlined on his site, won't repeat here).
(I'm sulking 'cause I don't like his plan as much as DK's
and Sharptons.)

Build on what we have, don't try to replace it with something else.
(Snap out of it Wes! You're WRONG. Editorial aside.)

[spooky3]

75. maybe, but most people are scared to make big changes

they may like his incremental approach better

[SahaleArm]

78. Single payer just isn't going to happen.

Reality is HMO's, Hospitals, and AMA. None of them want a single plan.

[xultar]

67. I didn't like Clarks answer did any one? Can you help me

maybe I didn't get it.

[Democrats unite]

79. Made sense to me.

Keep the current system & fix it. If you throw it away, I see nothing but anarchy in the business.

[brainshrub]

83. I didn't like his answer,

but when he talks I feel he's comming from the heart. I don't think he understands the issue, however.

[Cogito]

88. Clark takes a moderate approach

I liked his answer in that he went into greater detail than the other candidates and specifically said he was going to provide some legal protections to doctors to avoid liability. Edwards came off very weak on that trial attorneys question.

[Toucano]

89. Don't replace whole system yet

When we haven't tried to extend it to make it work better for everyone.

A little weak, I admit.

Clark feels Universal Single Payer is too ambitious. I don't entirely agree with him.

[displacedtexan]

90. Clark is weak on domestic policy plan details

I blame his campaign advisors. He's too smart to lose points on major issues.

[SahaleArm]

97. No candidate will win on a single payer plan - period n/t

[tishaLA]

95. I didn't like it

It's a very Joe-esque answer. But it's a variation on most of the candidates. Not delivered very effectively. At least he doesn't have those hand gestures like Carol Merrill, as some candidates do.

[Nite Owl]

107. I didn't like his

heathcare solution at all. Maybe he's just trying to get realistic but the system stinks right now and should be torn down.

[BootinUp]

109. Clarks plan is to use the government to keep doctors

and hospitals more informed on best technology, to use the government to reduce cost of healthcare by incentivizing preventative care.

In addition cover all children and provide aid to low, moderate income families.

[Tactical Progressive]

156. Clark's governmental oversight of malpractice tracking

sounded to me like a very creative and very progressive idea on dealing with the medical-legal-insurance problems in health care.

[Toucano]

74. Get ready for the gay marriage questions...

Culture war of SOTU speech.

[xultar]

80. I'm a gay man trapped in a womans body but I don't want surgery

when I get married to Vin Diesel will it be legal in OH?

[MissB]

87. You can't have him. He's mine.

Alllll mine.

[xultar]

Fight you for him

[MissB]

118. Ha ha ha

:wow:

Nice picture.

Where is that drool smilie?

[adamrsilva]

82. I sure hope they talk about steroids and abstinence programs!

.

[Kathleen04]

91. haha

That part of the SOTU was...pointless.

[Toucano]

99. Yeah, those athletes

mugging old ladies to buy steroids. It's a terrible problem in this country. A real epidemic that affects everyone's quality of life.

[xultar]

104. What about Martians on steroids n/t

[Rainbowreflect]

108. You called it!

[Rainbowreflect]

76. Okay, who is coughing and snorting during the debate.

It was kinda funny when it sounded like they were snorting in disbelief when JL was talking.

[cthrumatrix]

86. I think Gov Dean is still sick.....his voice is not there

[eaprez]

77. THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT 'CULTURAL ISSUES'...CODE FOR GAYS, GOD

AND HETROSEXUAL MARRIAGE. OH BROTHER.

[brainshrub]

94. Try unlocking the Caps Lock key.

We don't need to use all-uppercare...we are Democrats.

[stopbush]

81. This debate is proving ONE thing for damn sure,

and that is that we desperately need Al and DK to stay in this thing as long as possible to keep the truly liberal and progressive ideas of the party in the fore-front. They rock!

[Rainbowreflect]

92. Amen, they keep everyone honest.

[Paulie]

93. How about changing to Kucinich

We desperately need him IN the whitehouse, not just debates!!!!!

[brainshrub]

102. Kucinich would never be able to get a single bill passed.

[MuseRider]

98. Thank you. n/t

[dawgman]

115. totally I agree

[in_cog_ni_to]

96. Oh boy.

I hope Wes has studied his abortion stance. He'll get that question I bet.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

105. Yep. Just like John Edwards is doing better on gay rights...

[TexasPatriot]

122. Edwards wants to review DA/DT

you know... a general can ask the military to do this... but i dont think Edwards can. Clinton was crucified for it.

[milkyway]

100. There he goes again. Kerry stole Dean's reference to Truman on healthcare.

[brainshrub]

112. Kerry does that a lot to Dean.

Dean is the only comprehensive health-plan that can actually pass congress. I wish Brokau has allowed Dean to elaborate.

[0007]

113. You noticed that too?

[dsewell]

101. Clark getting wonkish on health care - good!

Health care response: it's a part of Clark's platform I'm less enthused about then some others, but I've been saying to people this past week that he needs to get wonkish again. Seriously. That's one reason people got into Draft Clark in the first place, that he was someone with both a vision and a handle on the details. In some previous debates he's been too vague on the domestic questions; tonight he's doing much better at showing that yes, Wes Clark does have a domestic policy agenda, he's not just a one-issue candidate.

[Myra]

106. Gay rights wedge issue to Edwards, who is against gay marriage (?)

He says we can pass other acts to help.
Can make strides elsewhere for the same cause.

[spooky3]

117. check his website--he is as liberal as all the other candidates on

the issue of rights for gays.

He knows any candidate who says bluntly "I am for gay marriage" is dead in the water for a large part of the electorate. Sad but true.

[Myra]

121. Gun/NRA question to Dean.

He answered quickly and is now going after Kerry on the health
care issue. Saying his efforts are bogus, didn't get results.

Kerry: We passed textile bills (???). Were vetoed by Pubs.
That's the problem. We're coming...don't let the door hit you...
(Yes, that line again.)

[Lex]

131. All are against gay marriage

except Al Sharpton, I believe.

[stopbush]

110. Brok asking Edwards about gay rights.

I really disagree with Edwards' position on gay rights, and his answer was pretty lukewarm.

[tishaLA]

150. I agree with you 110%

and I don't dislike Edwards really. But his LGBT position is VERY weak

[xultar]

111. No DEAN, no DEAN no! n/t

[eaprez]

120. Shouldn't be an issue in a presidential campaign. Its a non issue --

which distracts people from the real issues. Whip up the 'haters' to get them to the polls.

[Trajan]

114. GEEEEZ ...

I dont know who is speaking on the NPR Radio link with EJ Dionne, but it is OBVIOUS he does NOT like Clark .. calling him 'strident' and using a 'stream-of-consciousness' approach in answering questions ...

The right HATE Clark .... why ? .....


Fear ......

[xultar]

132. Fear, Rove talking points, how can any Media outlet

have a 1 hour show and not discuss Clark a candidate. Something is WRONG!
They are afraid!

[goodhue]

116. Dean touts NRA, makes run at Kerry

sad

[spooky3]

124. the Ten Commandments statues on public property

What a ridiculous waste of time.

[displacedtexan]

119. NRA Powered Howard!

Dean shouldn't have given JK an opening just now.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

123. Yeah, ask Edwards about gay marriage EVERY time

Why not just get Rush Limbaugh to moderate the debate - EVERY question designed to alienate our base. Edwards - the best populist we've had in years - and let's ask him about gay marriage, just to piss off the Christians in South Carolina.

Are you listening Democrats - you DESERVE to lose if you consistenly kiss ass of these corporate whore every time.

[spooky3]

128. Well put WCTV--& Clark gave good answer to another stupid q

[ncrainbowgrrl]

125. Here comes the religion thing

[Kathleen04]

126. I'm tired of the "don't let the door hit you on the way out...."

line from Kerry already.

[xultar]

139. Don't let the botox drip on your tie n/t

[TexasPatriot]

127. Clark is HAMMERING seperation of church and state

he did a great job on that one

[spooky3]

138. yes he was great

[Myra]

129. CLARK: must preserve separation of church and state!!!

Huge applause.
Must be sensitive to other people.

[Myra]

134. Kucinich won't sleep in SC 'cause of confederate flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a great man!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

148. I'll agree with that!

And also Al's stance on the flag!!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

130. nice applause for Clark over separation of church and state

Damn, he's doing real good on the "school prayer" question.

[LiberalBushFan]

141. yes, good sensitive answer

should help counter the crazy military general image that more prejudiced Democrats are paranoid about.

[Trajan]

135. Clark gets a WHOOSH of applause .

Defending Separation of Church and State ...

YEA Verily Wes ! ....

[in_cog_ni_to]

136. 10 Commandments

on public grounds. Yay!!!!! Preserve separation of church and state! LOVE IT! Go Wes!

Confederate flag issue. Dennis.....we need to heal this country....

[Guaranteed]

137. OH damn DK staying in NC in boycott of SC

Wow. THAT'S gonna earn him a lot of votes.

[xultar]

152. OK, new ranking - 1.Clark 2. DK (used to be tied with Kerry) n/t

[lancdem]

155. Sharpton kicks ass on Confederate flag question

says it has no place anywhere! And I don't even like the guy, but I agree wholeheartedly with him on this.

[dweller]

160. DK is staying in NC in SUPPORT of NAACP stance on SC and the flag issue

facts straight,

dp

[TheDonkey]

140. Dean is imploding, going negative like usual. Rock on Kucinich!

Sharpton up!!

[Toucano]

142. Dennis is gonna put his hands on the country.

Get ready for it! LOL!

It was a good answer, though.

[laruemtt]

143. clark handled the religion question great

said we have to preserve the separation of church and state. says yes he prayed in school as a boy in school in Arkansas, but now he thinks how must the little jewish kid next to him have felt. smackdown@!!! love ya wes!!!!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

166. Clark got lots of applause for that - finally!

[countmyvote4real]

144. I was with DK until he held up his healing hands.

That was kinda of overtop. Otherwise, he's really impressing me.

[knight_of_the_star]

145. How is Wes doing?

I have no access to the boob tube. Are they doing the same thing to him this time that they did last time?

[laruemtt]

154. wes is doing the best he's done yet

in these debates. he's one quick study!

[Toucano]

163. He took control.

Was more agressive in his answers. Didn't let Tom put him in a box.

Really improved!

I think he read my post after the last time...(gush!)

[Myra]

146. Asking Sharpton about confederate flag!

Does it have a place in American life?

Sharpton: NO! It's a symbol of racism.
We can't even get an official celebration of MLK day!

HUGE applause.

[spooky3]

147. LET'S GO TO THREAD #5

[xultar]

162. WOW, Good Debate,

Al - Won
DK - 2nd
Clark 3rd
Edwards 2nd
Kerry-BORING
Dean (I didn't like his hitting Kerry it wasn't good for his campaign.)
Lieberman (puhleez)

[goodhue]

149. DK staying night in NC b/c of NAACP boycott

That's backbone!
He similarly refuses to get into foreign cars.

[brainshrub]

157. DK just jumped up a notch for 2 reasons

1) He's coming to NC tonite.

2) He is respecting the boycott. (Very cool)

[in_cog_ni_to]

151. GO Al!

he whooped ass on the confederate flag issue! WTG.....:bounce:

[Myra]

153. Tom claimed Kerry was against Affirmative Action (?)

He says ammend it don't trash it. (paraphrase)

Huh?

[Myra]

158. It's OVER! I thought it was damn good.

eom

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

[stopbush]

159. And, tonight's BIG LOSER is...

Tom Brokaw.

[eaprez]

164. Chris Matthews may top Tom B

as a BIGGER looser.

[Moderator]

165. link to thread 5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=228238

[TheDonkey]

167. Kerry ended the debate weakly, needs to come out strong for AA

he was tip toeing around the past statement (irrelevant) and didn't explain HOw he felt about it other than that horrid phrase "mend it don't end it"