Message to the Dems: SHUT IT DOWN!!!!

[Walt Starr]

Talk is cheap. Time to pay the piper. These are extraordinary circumstances. Filibuster and force a nuclear confrontation. If the GOP nukes, SHUT IT DOWN!!!

No more money for anything. No more legislation on anything. No more nothing. Shut down the goddamned governement for as long as it takes. Force every last bill and every last amendment to be read in full on the floor of the Senate. No more unanimous consent, recorded votes on every last procedure every last time.

SHUT IT DOWN!!!

We are not playing any more. We are deadly serious. This far and no further. Fight or die. There is nothing left to lose. Fight or die.

SHUT IT DOWN!!!

[liberal N proud]

1. It is time to take America back from the Right Wing Fundamentalist

If this guy gets seated at the Supreme Court, it is all over but the massacre

[Burning Water]

4. Damn straight!!!! n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. Specifically, it's time to look at tomorrow

because the present Publicon agenda has already moved us back to the dark ages.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. I'll agree with that

Fight it. Fiercely, forcefully, and faithfully!!!

[Carolab]

3. SECOND THAT. SHUT IT DOWN!

The motherfuckers.

[jim3775]

5. How do you expect them to do that?

The republicans control both the house and the senate and all the committees.

[bowens43]

12. They can stop any and all legislation

through the use of procedural tactics including the filibuster. They can effectivly shut congress down.

[SlipperySlope]

81. Remember

If they want to play nasty, the majority can change the rules of the house at any time. In other words, any procedural tactic can be shut down by changing the rules to prohibit it.

[Greyhound]

98. But they still have to get a rule change through the process. n/t

[SlipperySlope]

110. cross our fingers and see how it goes - n/t

[rfkrfk]

217. republicans could insist on a real filibuster

4:am quorum calls, people sleeping in the Senate, etc.

It won't look good when C-Span carries
Senator X, reading the phone book for eighteen hours,
and then his tag-team partner takes over

[mom cat]

257. It does not have to be ths phone book!. there are a lot of real issues

that could get aired....Think of the free publicity!

[Art_from_Ark]

310. As far as that goes, they could read the so-called "Patriot" Act

All 800 some-odd pages of it. Every footnote, every sub-title. And then read the Constitution after that. And read the notes of Jefferson, Madison, etc. regarding the Constitution. There's enough material relevant to our government right there to keep a filibuster going for weeks.

[mom cat]

322. It would be a great use of the fillabuster time!

[Walt Starr]

13. The minority can shut down the government EASILY!

It only takes one Senator with the guts to do it.

Object every time any Senator calls for unanimous consent and force a recorded vote.

That simple act shuts down the Senate because it means every time a Senator asks for a simple procedure, a long drawn out debate and vote must be held. IT means every time unanimous consent is requested on dispensing witht he reading of any bill, it won't go further and the bill must be read in full.

do you know how long those bills are? It could take a week to read just one bill, and that's before there is any debate or a vote on the bill, let alone proposed amendments etc.

The minority can easily shut down the Senate, abnd thus the government, simply by forcing procdure be followed to the letter with none of the easy outs used currently.

[jim3775]

24. The republicans are in charge of the rules committee

They can change the rules easily (nuclear option).

[Walt Starr]

30. No, they can't

The nuclear option cannot be applied to the general rules and thus, a supermajority is required.

you're wrong. Read the rules of the Senate. The nuclear option is a loophole related to one piece of the rules.

[jim3775]

39. I am making a general point that the republicans can change or ignore the

rules they don't like. When Sensenbrenner singlehandedly shut down that committee meeting and took the gavel with him, that was against the rules.

[Ikonoklast]

276. Good, make them do it

and everyone with eyes to see will then know that our government has been hijacked by a criminal enterprise that will change rules or ignore them when it suits their purpose.

The best part of them setting that precedence will be when they are in the minority these changes will BITE THEM IN THE ASS and they know it. Force the issue, now.

[zann725]

320. That was Pre-Indictment, Pre-Fitz tough stuff."Times, they are changin"

n/t

[texpatriot2004]

42. Really so the "nuclear option" that the Rethugs talk so much

about cannot be used the way they imply that it can? You mean, the Rethugs have just been saying this like it covers everything?

So glad to hear what you say here.

[Walt Starr]

52. The nuclear option can be used against filibusters

because they are depnding upon a technicality, and quite frankly, on a bullshit over constitutionality related to judicial nominations only.

Procedures are procedures and the rules require a supermajority to change.

[cascadiance]

62. nuclear option won't hurt them for three years on judicial nominations...

Since even if Dems take back the Senate, it's still Bush's nominations initially. It would hurt them in 2008 if a Dem wins the presidency, but not for the forseeable future until 2008.

However, responding with a nuclear strike ourselves of shutting down the government altogether with fillibusters DOES potentially hurt them if they go nuclear there.

If they change the rules in the House and Senate then, it would potentially bite them in the but when they will have taken away their own option to fillibuster other bills Dems offer up after 2006 elections if the Dems retake congress.

I think even if they go nuclear now, if the Dems fight back to a different level after that, they'll at some point see that they might be doing more harm than good to themselves later. 2006 elections aren't that far away now!

[mestup]

20. RemoveRepublicans.com - Great site for vulnerable Senate seats

http://www.removerepublicans.com

[abluelady]

47. Thank you

These Senators need to remember we are voters. We do not want to see America turn right. I'm going to start a letter writing campaign and I think we should all write to the 14 senators who "compromised" when the nuclear option came up before.

[Imagevision]

303. It's must stop this is an out of control corrupt renegade administration

These guys make the mafia in their hay-day look like saints!

With claims their doing it for the american people to boot - this is total Bushism

[bluedog]

6. Fight for "We the People"...........

loud and clear.....this message has to be heard.......we are not going to take this corruption anymore...expose the administration for what it is.....liars......corrupt..

[Murdock]

7. Nope...

They don't have the balls to do it... They're deathly afraid of the Republicans.. Remember everything that Bush hasn't gotten thus far has been solely because he couldn't convince fellow Republicans to go along with it.. The Dems have stopped and blocked nothing.. They Are spinless, whimps who are pathetic appeasers to the boy prince..

[Walt Starr]

15. Then it's time to jump ship

The base whipped upo the GOP against Miers, time for the Democrats to listen to their base or for their base to jump ship.

This far and no further. They fight, or they die.

[Maraya1969]

207. Stop being so pessimistic. That is exactly what THEY ARE

We need to show them strength - not acquiescence. No more letting them get away with anything less than WHAT WE WANT.

[demnan]

9. I hope you can pursuade the spineless pink tutus

in the Senate to go along with this. I'm all for it.

[femrap]

140. Pleeeeeeeeeeez.....ballet dancers with pink tutus

have spines three times as strong as the typical dem senator!!!

Don't go all 'arnold and girlie man.'

[bowens43]

10. Agreed. This is what needs to be done.

[mshasta]

11. kick!

:kick:

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

14. The time is NOW!!! Step back from theocracy NOW!

All Democrats and all moderate Republicans need to stop this nonsense NOW! This is your clarion call.

[Vincardog]

102. Second that The time is NOW!!! Step back from theocracy NOW!

[converted_democrat]

16. Shut. It. Down. n/t

[KingFlorez]

17. Shut it down

Time to play hardball, don't let them get away with this

[donsu]

18. yes, shut it down, clog the streets, confront, and take charge

other countries got off the couch and did it. so can we.

[tularetom]

19. It's a big goddamn game of chicken

and the Dems chicken out every fucken time. All they have to do is shut it down once and things will start to change. If they only had the cojones.

[dbeach]

21. bush changed the topic

from Indictments..many more coming??

to a hot button pusher..

this guy is from the Mussolini side of Italia

[TankLV]

306. And he didn't even get 24 hours. This is probably the most brilliant move

by OUR Democratic Party in DECADES!

The subject is now squarely back to not only the indictments - BUT THE REASONS FOR BUSHCO AND THE REPUKE LYING US INTO THIS ILLEGAL WAR!

That is all the discussion now.

The SCOTUS nominee is literally yesterday's news - we'll deal with that too when the time comes.

I am very impressed lately with Harry and our Democratic LEADERSHIP.

Nice to see they've finally showed up!

And I've been one of the biggest naysayers here on DU for many years now on this subject!

[dbonds]

22. I'm with you.

This is the time to give no more. We have caved far to much already. Fight this.

[Joe Chi Minh]

23. Who's next? OldLiberalLeftie?

They know they've been identified. Could it be they're trying to double bluff? It's the last thing the neocons really want?

[wtmusic]

25. Been here a long time, and when Walt goes to caps...

he means business. :thumbsup:

[Walt Starr]

26. There's a time to run and there's a time to fight

The time to fight is now.

If they don't, then there is no reason whatsoever to vote for another Democrat. None.

[okieinpain]

72. so they fight but you loose more seats in 06, and another repug

is elected in 08. can we live with that, just asking.

[Walt Starr]

77. That just won't happen

sorry, you have no crystal ball that tells you if they filibuster they will lose seats.

IMO, quite the opposite is true.

[okieinpain]

135. well I guess you're going to find out.

[Walt Starr]

188. Yep, I sure will

Either I was right to vote Democratic for 25 years or I wasn't.

[readmoreoften]

93. And if democrats just rubberstamp these RW extremists,

then what's the point of having Democrats?

Are we planning on 'sneaking' Democrats little by little back into power?

(Shhhh--don't get yourself noticed, go with Bush on this one, then in 2006, when we get a slim majority--BAM! We'll... well, we'll do NOTHING because Shhhhh-- don't get yourself noticed, go with Bush on this one and then in 2008, now that we have a slim majority--BAM! We can get the presidency!)

Do you really think that silence and patience in the face of this horrors will instill respect in voting Americans (let alone help them to notice that the PNAC are controlling the voting machines!)

Who votes for cowards?

Not me.

[okieinpain]

136. ok. I guess that settles it.

[Indy Lurker]

164. Quote of Theodore Roosevelt says it all

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[TankLV]

307. What?

Are you saying if we fight we lose?

That has got to be the most assinine thing I've read here in a long time!

We should just sit down and shut up and bide our time - for what?


Riiiiiiigt!

[Danger Duck]

27. How do we shut "it" down

post Nuclear option?

[Walt Starr]

31. Force every procedure be followed to the letter

Force every bill be read on teh floor of the Senate.

Force every amendment be read on teh Senate.

No unanimous consent on anything, every last procedure requires a debate and a recorded vote.

Simply by following procedure to the letter will shut down the government entirely.

It would take a month to read out loud on the floor of the Senate, one bill for funding the Iraq war, for instance.

[Danger Duck]

34. Reminds me of Union tactics

in Chicago, at United airlines. They, while negotiating a new contract, woudl start following the manual and doing their job under the letter of the law. It cut productivety to a quarter of what it normally was.

ok, got it. But, shut down or not, this guy is getting in. Bush is going to extend a middle finger to the Senate for not supporting Miers, and if this hurts them in 2006, he can smile and say "thank yourselves"

[Walt Starr]

37. Dems need to play hardball against their lighwieghts

For instance, The DSC can be used against the wimpassed Dems who refuse the filibuster fight by explicitly telling them there will be a funded primary battle against any Democratic Senator who refuses.

Take it for what it's worth and play hardball.

Anything short of a filibuster on Scalito is unacceptable.

[barb162]

82. I agree, they should fight this and use every rule they can

to show how outrageous this candidate is and to show how harmful he will be to this country

(but I think they will still get scalia-junior in)

[femrap]

141. Please be defeatist elsewhere....

I am so tired of negativity. If you think you will NOT succeed, I guarantee you won't.

Pick up your phone and make 22 toll free calls everyday to the dem senators who approved of Johnny Bob Taliban...take you 20 minutes...do it during lunch time....1-800-828-0498. Every Day.

Change takes a little bit of work.

[barb162]

184. Defeatist" has zero to do with it. Reality is everything

Check the number of GOP in Congress. Your point about activism is excellent and I think it does make a difference most of the time.

[Lena inRI]

28. Give us shut-down, or gives us death!

these extraordinary times REQUIRE

extraordinary measures!

Democrats have the higher moral ground now,

so stand your ground. . .UNITED.

:grouphug:

[Dinger]

29. Yes, Shut It The Hell DOWN!!!!

Kick & nominate too!

[okieinpain]

32. actually I don't think he's that bad. he'll probably do away with roe,

and affirm action. but that's what people get for electing bush. maybe it will wake up some of the folks that don't vote because there is "no difference" between the two parties.

scream all you want, I still love ya. :~)

[Walt Starr]

35. Then fine, when a third of the Democratic Party walks

That's what the consequences of refusing to pay attention to the base will get the Dems.

We are tired of wimps.

They fight now or they die. There is nothing else.

[okieinpain]

48. the other side of that coin is we will be responsible for old people

not getting their checks. I understand people getting mad about this appointment, but bush is your (mine too, damn I hate saying that) president, so he gets to pick shit like this.

but when I'm pissed I take it out on kerry for not fighting for ohio. he fucked up not taking that too court. sometimes I think he was a plant to stop dean.

:~)

[Walt Starr]

55. GOOD, the then old people will push the Republican Senators

to give sway.

[okieinpain]

64. no the old people will blame dems, raise hell. the dems will give in

the repugs get their nom, we won't do good in 06, and get kicked back to the drawing board for 08. tell you what I'll wait and see what dean says.

[Walt Starr]

85. Teh Repugs get their nominee either way

The filibuster means we force them to go nuclear to get it.

Then we shut it down.

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. Let's think this through.

Bush appoints Scalito
Reid fillibusters
Cheney nukes
Scalito appointed
Reid shuts down government

...Then what? What are we trying to do/prove then? What would have to happen so that we can say "I trust we've proved our point" instead of "well, uh... nevermind"?

[Walt Starr]

180. No more nominees on any level. None. No more money for war, None.

No more anything witht he GOP agenda. It's all shut down.

And it stays shut down. Period. End of story, Fight and obstruct is all we have left if this nominee goes through. This nominee represents the end of freedom and democracy forevermore. All we have left is to shut the fucker down.

[lumberjack_jeff]

199. Unrealistic.

Sorry, but it's unrealistic to expect unanimous compliance with a plan for elected officials to stand by while people suffer indefinitely.

Not Democratic elected officals, anyway.

It won't happen without an objective. Newt had an objective and he still failed.

[windbreeze]

204. Absolutely...should have happened with Roberts..

SHUT IT DOWN...FORCE THEM TO GO NUCLEAR..other people might just be surprised to see how an act like that would possibly energize the Dem party as a whole..I am tired of watching the Dems back down, and run hide with their tails between their legs...It might just be what the Democratic party needs to find their voice, and their courage again...IF they don't start fighting soon...very soon there is going to be nothing left to fight for..
windbreeze

[femrap]

146. What 'old' people....

IMHO, the younger generation today is much more conservative than when I grew up...and when I attend political events/demonstrations/rallies, there are more 'old' people than young.

And us old folks aren't so damn negative and defeatist....you don't even seem to want to try....and why the hell should you want to wait on some old guy to see what he says....you have a brain. You have a conscience.

Dean is head of the party....he has compromised...but I did read that he is pissed over this nomination....duh!

[Rainscents]

179. When was last time you check Kerry votes? He got the almost 70%

young votes... More than any other group!!! Young people knows, right from wrong!

[EuroObserver]

213. Kerry: surely someone told him to remember

what happened to the Kennedys.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

241. Repukes don't give a shit about old people look at the heating bills this

winter!!! Look at the pharmaceutical industry. It's the Repukes fault and we'll lose more old people if we don't SHUT IT DOWN. They have to choose between heating their homes, getting needed medicine or eating!!!!! Repukes don't care!!!

[TankLV]

309. He may be occupying OUR White House - but he will never be my "president".

Never.

Gore Won.

Period.

[Danger Duck]

38. We have affirmative action still?

Good to know.

[okieinpain]

46. I hear you loud and clear. I know it's not a good thing that this is

the nominee. but I think we are at least forcing them to roll the dice, remember a couple of the people that have been holding roe up were appointed by the repugs.

you never know one of these two might go our way too. At least they are not putting up a bork, then I would have say make them go nuclear.

[Walt Starr]

49. OH BULL SHIT!

This fucker was groomed by the federalist society for one reason and one reason only, to overturn Roe, privacy rights, and to instill a theocratic form of government. Nothing more.

They fight or the war is over and the theocrats win. It's that simple.

[okieinpain]

66. you really believe that, interesting.

[Walt Starr]

78. Yes, I do

That's why this nomination is the defining moment for me.

[TankLV]

311. He's not alone, by a long shot.

Most of us believe that.

[sepia_steel]

129. Nominated. eom

[Danger Duck]

50. You think

he may be a Souter? Maybe. But probably not, in my humble opinion.

[femrap]

147. Please get a spine.....stop being afraid of the big

bad cheney....look at w's poll numbers!! People hate him. And most people don't want some crazy guy as a judge. You've been whammied by the pugs.

[IndianaGreen]

177. There is a whiff of appeasement in the air

Haven't we have enough of those that wanted accommodation with the GOP?

[mestup]

41. Roe is almost "done away with" as it is.

The courts keep hacking away at it, bit by bit. In states like Idaho or Montana you'd have a better chance at winning the lottery than finding an abortion clinic.

It's sad how complacency has led to the erosion of citizen participation.

http://www.removerepublicans.com

[Zhade]

166. This from a person who doesn't accept the proven facts of evolution.

Big surprise.

[bluedog]

33. if the HARD right shut Miers out

and they united their loony base....thers no reason the Democrats can not unite and stop this......shut the government down.............

[redacted]

36. Old saying: "Stand up to bullies and they'll be your friends."

The only reason the GOP is pulling this kind of crap is that they expect to get away with it. Force them to doubt that expectation and things will change rapidly and in a big way.

Well said, Walt. Thank you.

[Tomee450]

96. Exactly

The democrats have rolled over so often that the Repubs have absolutely no respect for them.

[durablend]

103. Neither do the voters!

That's why we keep getting our asses kicked! If we do nothing and somehow win something next year, it'll be by default (PO'ed pukes staying home) than anything else

[femrap]

148. YES! n/t

[DaytonOHDem]

40. I agree Walt, Shut It Down!

Shut it down, they are screwing up everything anyway. What the hell, shut it down.

[ultraist]

43. Fillibuster or bust!

It's better to live on your feet than die on your knees.

[EuroObserver]

215. -->

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

[Eagle_Eye]

44. It looks like the time to hold the line at all costs is here.

Democrats cannot continue to give in to the republicans and expect to maintain a viable Democrat party. Each time we allow the administration to get its way, it gives a measure of legitimacy to their agenda.

If we do not take extraordinary measures on this nomination, we and the whole Democratic party could be forced into such a secondary position that we will have no influence in governing this country. The well being of the whole country is riding on this. We must fight.
If shutting down the government is what is required, then
SHUT IT DOWN!

[MelissaB]

45. Talk to me.

What happens when the government is shut down? What will it mean to the average person?

[Eagle_Eye]

54. At first, nothing would happen. Then the need for additional

funding for programs would place burdens of people. No additional money could be allocated above the present spending levels.

One good thing that would happen is the war in Iraq would be in trouble. The funding for the war is through supplimental spending bills. With the Senate shut down, no supplimental spending bills could be approved and the war would run out of money.

[MelissaB]

61. Thanks! n/t

[okieinpain]

68. so what happens to the soldiers, and how does that play for dems

in the press

[EuroObserver]

216. They wouldn't be able to reduce spending

on social security, for example, either, am I right?

[texpatriot2004]

51. Agreed. Walt is this something we should all be writing the

Senate to request?

[Walt Starr]

53. I've already written to my Senators

and made it ubundantly clear that Democratic Senators shall either hang together or they shall surely hang seperately.

All or nothing on this one. Either they filibuster, or it's over.

[AntiFascist]

104. We need letter writing campaigns, then....

Boxer, Kennedy, Pelosi...who will support this???

[cascadiance]

114. We should ALL write Feingold and Leahy...

They are both on the committee AND they voted yes for Roberts before *unexpectedly*. This time around, we should let both of them know in advance that we WON'T be happy if they give Alito approval this time around. Feingold's impressed me with everything else, and I'd considered him my choice for president in 2008 if he were to run. But he will immediately drop off my radar screen for that race if he votes yes on Alito this time around. I might give him a pass on Roberts, but not this time!

So even if you don't hail from Vermont or Wisconsin, give these two guys a holler on this.

[femrap]

150. Call the 22 who voted for Roberts...

call them EVERYDAY....toll free...1-800-828-0498

Tell them that you represent a group of voters who are giving the Dems ONE FINAL CHANCE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT!

[understandinglife]

56. SHUT IT DOWN. --- NOW.

No more business as usual.

Bush and Cheney must be forced to resign.

A sane, immediate logistic for removal of our troops from Iraq must be implemented.

ALL of the criminals in the Bush neoconster regime must be charged and proscecuted -- Plame, stolen election, torture, lying to Congress to start a war, ..... .

No more business as usual.

Done.

Finished.

Over.

SHUT IT DOWN. --- NOW.
Peace.

[Ganja Ninja]

57. Right on!

If the Democrats unite in lock step then the GOP will have to as well if they want to get anything done. Aside from making everything harder, forcing them to deal with one another is the first step in fomenting dissent within their party. Sooner or later some of them will have to break ranks. Then their natural vindictiveness will take over and the whole shit-ball will fall apart.

[Strawman]

58. Yep. But the thing is, for our Dem senators there is something to lose

... in a shutdown. Their own personal power and influence. They need to be very afraid of the political consequences of playing ball with the Republicans or they will play ball. Replacing a swing vote with a hard line conservative is not acceptable. There is no ground for compromise here.

Those who don't want to fight on Alito should be made aware that they will be strongly opposed in primaries. I don't care who they are or what they have done in the past. The next primary election needs to be a referendum on their behavior as legislators in this crisis. Those who want to cave in to protect their own little speheres of influence need to know that we will vote against them, give money and time to their primary opponents, and tell everyone we know (and we are "infleuntials") to get out and vote against them.

[okieinpain]

69. interesting so it's going to be the nuclear option in the Dem party

also. very interesting.

[femrap]

152. After the 22 Dems voted for Roberts, I called each one....

and said that I was part of a newly formed Democratic Group. I continued by saying that if Mr. Senator is afraid of the Republicans....just wait until they have to face A REAL DEMOCRAT IN THEIR PRIMARY!!!!

Then Mr. Senator will really have something to be frightened about!

I think it is a great plan!

[cascadiance]

59. This is what I said earlier here for Roberts nomination...

... and have even been quoted on some wingnut sites for my strident comments then!

This is the original idea that Reid had stated earlier. And I think it makes perfect sense! It's time to draw a line in the sand!

Nominated!

[the other one]

60. You speak for me! nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

63. absolutely

If the bad guys win this one, we are screwed for many, many years to come even if we come back into power in landslide.

An activist court like the one being solidified by this nomination would block and undermine progressive legislation in the future.

[cally]

65. Absolutely

It's time to take a stand against the whackos. Now is it.

[mzmolly]

67. Ah it worked, we have moved on from Libby and are threatening Democrats

YIPPIE! That didn't take long. GO ROVE!!!

[ultraist]

71. Dems need to go balls to the walls on this one! No compromising.

BTW, not all of us threatened to not ever vote Dem again if they didn't. In fact, I wouldn't make that statement based on what current elected Dems did.

But, I do support encouraging our elected Dems to stand firm on this one.

There is too much at stake!

[mzmolly]

73. I support encouragement, like calls and letters. But I, like you do not

support threats.

To suggest that we don't like a supreme court nominee so we should (abandon Dems) and risk another REPUBLICAN Presidency, which will add more lunatic cronies to the court is ABSURD to say the least.

People who want to see the right thing happen should start threads on contacting the senate/congress and provide links to do so. THAT is meaningful, this type of thread isn't.

[EuroObserver]

218. This doesn't look to be about abandoning dems

but more about, at all levels, strengthening them.

[Overseas]

116. I haven't moved on from Libby. He is a big reason

enough is (way past) enough !! These Republicans are hypocrites, liars and outright criminals and we want their government shut down now. And we want their leading crooks impeached and out of office. But we're dealing with criminals so we need not be so concerned about being reasonable and bipartisan any more.

[bettyellen]

142. we are encouraging Democrats to fight fiercely

as fiercely as Rove does. Yeah, the timing is something, but it can't be helped.

[mzmolly]

193. How we handle this can be helped however.

;)

We need to play this carefully.

[bettyellen]

226. we need to ask our legislators to fight hard for things that matter

and stop laying down on the job.

[mzmolly]

240. We need to ask them to fight smart as well.

So they don't take too much needed attention from Plamegate.

[bettyellen]

292. by laying down on the job some more? no thanks.

you may not mind this husband notification thing, but it does it for me.
sorry, not giving any quarter here. wasting your breath on this one.

[mzmolly]

293. No, by doing what they did TODAY!

Keeping the focus on PLAMEGATE.

[bettyellen]

294. there's not a limit on the topics people can follow.

we could say the same thing about Katrina, Election Fraud, etc, but i would never.
It's all poison to them, it all gets a segment of the population talking, it's all good.
but SCOTUS is upon us now, and it's sad to think some people want others to set it aside for their own "pet strategy" or something that concerns them more. let people wail about it, it is urgent, passionate people need to make their voices heard in their own way. it ain't hurting your pick of the week. i'm sick of trying to herd people like cats or inferring another voice drowns out their own. it's not important enough to you, fine.

[mzmolly]

295. There has been a limit on what the MSM will say about the case for war!

Dems are trying to delay the Alito nomination, another smart move to keep the focus where it belongs. On BUSH and his LIES.

And, quit insinuating that "it's" not important to me. What I have said all along is that STRATEGY is ALSO important right now, and we should "play this situation smart." We did - I'm glad!

[bettyellen]

296. you're overlooking the fact that we are not talking about timing here .

i think you're being a little off about the timing here... who said anything about this week or the newscycle of the moment?
when the time comes, no matterwhat else is on the news... it needs to be done, without any more backburner bullshit.
it is too important!

[mzmolly]

297. Who's we? I am talking about timing here. Rove wanted to change

what the topic of the day was, WE did not let him. That is a good thing.

[bettyellen]

298. i know, but you seem to think the "shut it down" was this week....

and i don't imagine how you'd think we'd get there so fast.....somehow interupting your plans or something to control the newscycle this week.
but when it comes down to it, we must fight bigtime, no matter what the newcycle is focused on. when it comes down to the time- shunting this aside for "strategic reasons" is not going to cut it for plenty of us. been there, sick of that.
and that's all i'm trying to say.

[mzmolly]

299. I agree we have to fight when we have to fight.

We'll end it there. :hi:

Peace

[bettyellen]

300. and today was encouraging on that front, huh?

peace and more happy days to come
:hi:

[mzmolly]

301. It sure was!

And, I'm hopeful it's a brand new beginning!

[bettyellen]

302. here's to that!

:bounce:

:toast:

[Zhade]

169. Threatening Dems that won't stand against a dangerous zealot appointee?

You'd better fucking believe it.

Those without the conviction to fight fascism need not apply.

[mzmolly]

192. Oh for gawd sakes!

Those without conviction to fight fascism need not apply? This thread suggests that WE abandon such a fight IF Dems don't act in unison on ONE particular issue.

[FreedomAngel82]

70. I wish they would

Could there be a campaign to try and get them to do that? Would it work?

[nolabels]

74. Okay, but shouldn't it of happened a long time ago

And like what is the big deal about appointing judges anyway? Its quite obvious *, his administration and all the right wing tag alongs don't follow the law anyway. Most of them laws were written to aid the right wing ownership society side (they forget this point).

I say let them all play stupid, the traitors are in the spotlight and even if the corporate news editors don't want to cover the story of the traitors and crooks in the white house it just won't matter anyway because many more people are now watching. Gossip and drama has a way of living it's own life when substantive issues surround it.

[tex-wyo-dem]

75. YES! Couldn't agree with you more, Walt! (n/t)

[jobycom]

76. We can't shut down the government, we don't have the power.

We don't have the power to shut down a Walmart, how the Hell are we going to shut down the government? The Republicans set the rules in Congress, they won't even break a sweat in swatting our silly little protests.

"quorum - The number of Senators that must be present for the Senate to do business. The Constitution requires a majority of Senators (51) for a quorum. Often, fewer Senators are actually present on the floor, but the Senate presumes that a quorum is present unless the contrary is shown by a roll call vote or quorum call."

In other words, we can't even block a quorum.

[Walt Starr]

79. The Senate can be effectively shut down by following procedure

to the letter. Any minority in the Senate can do that.

Shut down the Senate and you shut down the government.

[jobycom]

84. The rules committee can just change the rules

The Republicans control it all. Even if we object on procedures, the chair can pretend to not hear us, and unless we had the votes to force them to hear us, they'd just do what they wanted.

[cascadiance]

111. If they do that, and inititiate "one party" rule, they will pay in 2006!

First of all, in that instance, the Dems can quite accurately say that the Republicans are initiating "minority rule", since the Dem Senators collectively still represent a majority of the U.S. population with the states they represent, even if they are a minority in the Senate.

By putting in place these rules, Dems could effectively campaign that the Republicans are trying to prevent rule by the majority. This potential imbalance is the whole reason that fillibustering rules exist to start with, since earlier it was recognized that there should be a way in specific instances, that a minority (that might still represent a majority of the country's population), needs to be able to prevent certain legislation from being passed when there's a lot of division.

If the Dems win back the Senate and/or House in 2006, Republicans would have to reverse the rule changes before leaving their majority (which would seem "wrong" if they did it that way), or else leave those rules in place for a new Dem majority to play the same "whuppin'" game on them once they take power in 2006, without even having to change the rules themselves.

Going nuclear on all fillibustering in general is a lot more riskier for the Rethugs than just focusing on judicial nominee fillibustering. The former will hurt them a lot even if a Rethug president is present. The latter doesn't help the Dems in charge if Bush is still president.

[jobycom]

131. You're right, it's all a PR chess match

We have to guess how the public will react and spin it our way, the Repubs will do the same. We can claim we represent a majority of states, the Repubs will point out that we don't hold the House, Senate, White House, or the majority of state governments. We might win, they might.

But if we did shut things down, the longer we did it, the worse we would look, unless we could come up with a brilliant argument. After all, we'd be the ones going against two centuries of tradition, and when we've had power in the past we weren't any nicer to the minority than they are.

I think we'd lose, but given Bush's problems and the struggles of the country right now, we might not.

The bottom line is still that the Republicans can just run us over with their majority, and the most we could hope for is to win in 2006 and change things. And it could backfire. We could look like obstructionists and lose the momentum we've been gaining, and we could get slaughetered in 2006.

[cascadiance]

132. The only thing Dems can do in this environment is "obstructing"...

If people vote against "obstructionism", we should note that they are voting *for* one party rule, or in other words, authoritarian fascism.

If we don't obstruct at some point in this situation, then our party's representatives are basically useless!

[jobycom]

175. Our representatives are basically useless, that's my point

We are a complete minority. We don't even have the power to obstruct, and if we did manage to obstruct, we wouldn't have the power to get anything positive to pass to follow up our obstruction.

Say we block Alito somehow. Hopefully we will. Bush will appoint someone else like him. We can obstruct that confirmation, and we'll have another candidate just like him. The Federalist Society is full of judges like him.

We wouldn't win anything by throwing a tantrum even if we had the power to throw a tantrum.

Bush won't nominate someone we like, or even someone we can stand. I'll support and encourage any attempt to fillibuster Alito, and the next guy, and the next. But at the end, we're going to lose, and we need to be aware of that.

Now, the only way we can win is if we can fillibuster Alito (meaning that some of the moderate Repub Senators dislike him enough to let us win this one). If we can do that, we can raise public awareness that Bush is nominating extremists, and then maybe we can get the public on our side, as Clinton did in his battles with Gingrich over the budget. In that case, we can force Bush to choose someone more moderate. We might have a chance to win.

But if we can't fillibuster Alito, I don't see how it will serve anyone's purpose to have us look like the spoiled kids in this. We won't win if we do that. The BEST we can hope for is to get the Republicans upset. The WORST that can happen is we get blamed and the public gives the Republicans an even stronger hold on Congress in 2006. And then we'd have cut our throats for pure symbolism.

So, my point is, we should try to defeat Alito, and we should try to defeat every extremist Bush nominates, but we have to understand that are most likely going to lose, and we need to not be so upset when we do. Put yourself in the place of a Democratic senator. You can fight this fight and have a very public loss that hurts the party and your reelection chances. Or you can accept that you've lost when it is clear that you have, put on a moderate face, and stay in the game for the next time. Which do you do? Frankly, I can make a case for doing either. That's why I don't blame the Dems who choose not to fight. People like Kennedy and Byrd don't have to worry much about re-election, they can say what they want. Someone like Clinton or Schumer are in a more precarious position. They have to convince voters to keep voting for them even though they lose every single time. Their only chance is to make the loss look like a victory, or at least look like a good loser. It's not easy. I won't hold it against Dems when they choose not to fall on their swords.

If we had the majority, I'd feel very different.

[cascadiance]

244. The problem is Rethugs framing it to make us look like "spoiled kids"...

Others would call it "fighting the good fight"...

The goal of fillibustering isn't to just make things hurt for Bushco for their extremist nominations to the supremes, but to also make it costly for them to not be able to work on other legislation as the price of them making these kind of selections. What should be made clear to them is if they REALLY want someone like this, ultimately they MIGHT get it through, but at the cost of the Senate not conducting much other business (which would be more their loss than ours, since we have no control of its business).

It's really about how we frame this to the public. We have to HEAVILY point out that if and when the people vote us back into a position of power, THEN we can put in place new legislation to correct ALL of the problems that re plaguing this nation now. It should be coming clearer to the country now that this country is being run horribly now. It's a matter of connecting the dots to Bushco and the Republicans about not being there to serve us, and that as long as we are there, we're going to stay in the way of them trying to conduct their non-country serving agenda. At some point I think the public will get it. A year ago, I might not have thought so, but with the war the way it's gone, the disasterous disaster management by FEMA, the criminal investigations, the economy going belly up, the religious right trying to shut down everyone's rights to suit their views, I think if we can reach these folks at some point it will become clear that fillibustering and standing in the way of this crowd is the way to go, until we either get to the elections to throw them out on their rears, or they try to come back to the middle in their judge selections or legislation.

If we give in to this selection. It's time for people like me to follow Vermont's lead and help get a secession proposition on the ballot for next California election. The nation at that point will already have lost it's Democracy. Might as well leave and start fresh outside of that broken system.

[jobycom]

248. Hasn't worked so far

Our elected officials have been screaming about Bush since he took office. The media ignores it so completely that even here on DU the Dems are constantly accused of remaining silent.

The media will spin it for the Repubs. THat's a given. Any plan we come up with has to start with the assumption that we have already lost the PR battle. It's not just Democratic spin that Republicans own the media. It's the way it is.

As for the nation losing its democracy because the majority wins and the minority loses, I don't see that. I don't like what's happening. Most people don't. But it is what they voted for. ANd don't start the Diebold nonsense. Even if Diebold did rig the last presidential election, it isn't the reason Repubs hold Congress, the statehouse, and everything else.

I agree. I want the Dems to fight, if for nothing else, just to show the American people that we do disagree. A filibuster might at least make the media report that we aren't all happy with the choice. But shutting down the government, not that we have the ability to, but let's pretend, if we lose the filibuster won't win us anything. It will cost us greatly. Read my sig line.

[cascadiance]

253. We really haven't any done anything so far...

THAT"s the problem. Then the media spins us that are asking them to do something as being nuts. If the representatives were to follow their hearts and try to do something about it, getting more and more extreme in each effort, maybe the media will try to spin that we are "crazy" in shutting the government down. There might be a core set of Rethugs that will just write us off (as they have already), but perhaps at some point in the middle people will demand the media "question" and interview Democrats their reasons for shutting down the government. If we respond well, we can explain that this is the only way we have of trying to counterbalance what is growing to be a one-party rule state that is NOT Democracy. They have to be ready to point out the legislation that has been damaging our country (the bankruptcy bill, the Death tax, the "unique" war-time tax breaks, etc., etc.), and how the Republicans have been using unorthodox efforts to shut down dissent (Sensenbrenner's actions on Patriot Act meeting, the nuclear option efforts, the "overnight" Patriot Act legislation modifications, Tom Delay's redistricting efforts, etc.), and that it makes it so that Dems HAVE to respond by using unorthodox methods to restore the rights of those they represent (which is a MAJORITY of the U.S. population in the Senate).

The people should understand that at some times you have to respond to attack in unorthodox ways (if they believed the earlier rationales for what we did in response to 9/11), so put in that context, they might understand why we might have to shut the government down to equalize the playing field. Challenge the voter to explain what they've gained by keeping these coprofascists in power, and why they want to continue perpetuating their rule!

[jobycom]

255. I don't know how you can say they haven't done anything

They have done about everything in their power. Which is mostly just talk. I get emails so often from Dean, Pelosi and Kerry that I don't read most of them anymore. We've blocked Republican attempts on social security, on killing the fillibuster, on Bush invading Iraq without going to the UN. We've put a damper on his plans to invade other nations. We've forced him to kill and drop several plans that were too extreme, too radical.

That's not bad for a party with no power. We've done it all by shining a spotlight on their plans, by threatening fights that would expose the moderate Republicans who went along with the extremist plans to the light of day. Some Repubs win by being moderate, and those are the ones we can pressure into siding with us, or at least not opposing us.

That's the way we'll defeat Alito, if we do.

But we can only go so far. You are assuming that the public will think like us. When the public hears Dems blasting the Repubs about "one party rule," they aren't going to think the Dems are right. They are going to think we're sore losers. Try it. Print up some fliers and hand them out at your grocery store. See how many people read past the line "Republicans want one party rule." People won't care, because they know full well that the Democrats want one party rule, too. People didn't vote for two party rule, they voted for Republican rule, and if we try to tell them they are wrong for doing it, it will backfire.

We just have to win back the Congress, and we do that by hard work, by selling a positive message, by letting the condition of America speak for itself (though we need to point it out a few times). A filibuster stand on Alito, especially if we constantly point out his extremist views, will look very good to a lot of people (though politics still varies locally). A temper tantrum afterwards, no matter how we sell it, will weaken us. In fact, the reason a filibuster will make us look good is because the Republicans will whine about it, and THEY'll look like the sore losers.

Amd then their are Congresscritters like Mary Landrieu. She's a good liberal in a conservative state that just got more conservative. If she vocally fights against Alito because he's against abortion, she'll lose her seat. There are others in that category. Ben Nelson, for instance. If we got them to vote the way we wanted every time, they'd lose their seat to a Republican and we'd be further away from gaining control of Congress.

[BronxBoy]

291. Well I guess.....

I should just drop my pants and bend over..

:shrug:

[enough already]

125. What about Social Security?

I want to hurt these fuckers too, but if we shut down the government will seniors get their money?

[Walt Starr]

181. We've got nearly a year before we have to worry about that

The checks will flow between now and then.

[barb162]

80. That's just what I was thinking. Plus I do want the disabled and

elderly to get their checks so they can eat and get their meds. I understand Walt's anger I think. After the election of 2004, I couldn't take it anymore; I was a physical and mental mess for about a week. To maintain my sanity,what I am doing now is sort of tuning out to this news, because when I really pay attention I want to throw things through the TV, etc. I realize there really isn't a damned thing I can do to stop the pugs for the next 3 years. Writing to the pugs, especially my US House pug, does nothing, zero. I feel pretty helpless but try as much as I can to not let them destroy me. They own the Congress right now, the White House and they will own the Supreme Court one way or another.

[jobycom]

86. Here's what you can do

SOme great advice on this thread, and more coming. This will get you involved, and you'll feel less powerless, and you might even make a difference. And you can help at a local or state or federal level, depending on your preferences.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2203808

[Strawman]

83. Routine business in the Senate is done by unanimous consent decrees

in the absent of unanimous consent decreees everything, even the most routine procedures would require a vote. Withholding unanimous consent except for the most vital matters (as Reid has threatened) would effectively grind the Senate to a halt. So you don't "walk out," you just require votes on EVERYTHING.

That being said, what's to stop the Republicans from finding some arbitrary way of changing the Senate rules to get around that? I don't know. In the end, the Senate might run alot like the House.

[jobycom]

88. The chair interprets whether it's unanimous consent, and they control

the rules committee. Just as they can change the fillibuster rule, they can change procedural rules. The chair can pretend to be deaf and not hear calls for a vote, or pretend he heard unanimous consent.

Reid might be able to do something, but the Republicans will ultimately win, because they have control.

We should take over in 2006. We keep complaining that our officials don't get anything done. What we should be doing is working to get them the power to get something done.

Here's a good thread on how to get involved, for anyone who doesn't yet know how.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2203808

[Catherine Vincent]

87. Didn't the republicans get a bad rap from the public when

they shut the government down twice during the Clinton administration?

[jobycom]

91. Yes, but that was budget related, not procedural.

They refused to pass a budget because they didn't like Clinton's budget. Clinton's much maligned triangulation strategy made him look like the sensible one, and the Repubs look uncompromising. So Clinton won.

Walt's talking about procedurally shutting down the government by not letting any bills get passed until the Republicans meet our conditions. IF we could pull it off, we'd have to make sure our conditions seem reasonable, and the Republican actions seem partisan and outrageous, otherwise we'd lose. The key word is "seem." It's all about the spin. We'd be trusting out future to the media spin. Dangerous. It could work, though. Bush is down, and they are looking extreme these days. I just don't think we can shut the government down. The Republicans controlled the House when they did it. We don't even control the Senate bathrooms.

[Catherine Vincent]

92. Thanks.

[Career Prole]

89. Thanks, Walt. n/t

[unlawflcombatnt]

90. Obstruct, Block, and Filibuster the entire Neocon-Artist agenda

The Retardlicans have lots of new ideas in their agenda, and every last one of them is bad. Block all of them.

unlawflcombatnt
EconomicPopulistCommentary
___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[readmoreoften]

94. SHUT IT DOWN-- OR LOSE YOUR BASE!

I feel like I have nothing to lose. Shut it down and keep it closed until this nightmare is over.

[Dawgs]

95. Whatever Walt!!!

:crazy:

[Generator]

97. You are such a hothead but of course I agree with you completely.

I felt this way over Roberts. I've felt this for a long long time. If you can't win, DEMOCRATS at least you can have a conscience and a spine. But damn, my ancestors were Celts and Vikings. We never play nice. And no one ever answers the question: I didn't leave the Democratic party they left me. Why am I the traitor?

I don't know what I will do. I'm not threatening to not vote Dem, I'm threatening to not vote at all-why bother if they don't represent me? Because the other side is worse? So I MUST vote Dem even if they don't represent me and don't even have the thing I value most in life-a WILL to not back down when it matters NO MATTER THE COST? What do you think made the civil rights movement? Backing down? The women's movement? Backing down? Risking everything even if you might lose. That is how change happens. Not the status quo. Which is all the Dems of today have become about. The status quo is killing us.

[rateyes]

99. ABSODAMNLUTELY!!!

Require cloture votes on everything, and keep at least 41 Democratic Senators in the fold...

Tell the American people the truth...this is all we have left to protect you and your freedom. George Bush will be the lamest duck that ever was....

Reid ought to get the troops in line....make sure all are on the same page and threaten it NOW....and, if they think he is bluffing and they detonate the nuclear option...

FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!!!! No bluffing. Draw the line in the sand, dare them to step across it, and if they do, deck them---show NO mercy.

REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

[Greyhound]

100. Walt is right. This is the last gasp of an increasingly irrelevant

democratic party. They have shown over and over that they are not willing to take the drastic steps required to stop this cabal. This must end! The democratic party, as it exists, has sold us out time after time and we sit here saying "well, they're better than the re:puke:s". Well, they're not any better. They go along with every step the re:puke:s take down the road to totalitarianism.
If we shut down the government and demonstrated our willingness to take it as far as nessessary for as long as nessessary, we might see some movement. What the hell nothing else is/has worked. :nuke:

[mikelewis]

101. Shut it Down

[berni_mccoy]

105. Thanks Walt... this is what I meant when I said I'd go Indie

Glad to see you aren't getting totally flamed like I did here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2200453

And thanks for sticking up for me there too.

[bajamary]

106. Amen

Amen. Shut it down as we're being killed and killing every single second.

[merh]

107. Sure, those of us living in the 3rd world region of the nation

on the Gulf Coast don't need any money or assistance. Who the fuck cares that we don't have homes, that many are living in tents with no electricity or heating, that our insurance companies have screwed us and we are struggling to get by.

Just shut down the government and let the chips fall where they may. :cry:


Hey Walt, you wanna come live down here for a while?

[mzmolly]

112. I'm so sorry Merh.

:(

[merh]

122. ...

:hug: Thanks mzmolly. :hug:

Shutting down the government will be harmful to a lot of American citizens.

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

174. Come live on the Gulf Coast.

I invite you to come here and try to get that job paying $5.15 an hour and keep that job while you try to salvage what little is left of your house. Try to function day to day as everything around you is in ruins, try to sleep at night remembering the horrors of the storm, worrying how you will rebuild all that you once had.

Come walk in my shoes and you will know that all the attention we are getting is deserved and NOT ENOUGH.

Why don't we demand that our legislators actually legislate and not spend their days worrying about their special projects. Shutting down the government is not the answer. Actually doing their jobs and legislating is the answer.

[mvd]

108. Good thread!

Extraordinary measures deserve counter extraordinary measures!

[Raksha]

109. You're damn right--fight or die!

If they can play the polarization game, SO CAN WE!!!

[Overseas]

113. THAT'S WHAT I WANT TOO !! We are way past ENOUGH ! nt...

[Rainscents]

115. YES, DEMS MUST SHOT IT DOWN!!!

This is fight we must fight!!! It's do or die!!!

[napi21]

117. Just WHO do you want Shrub to nominate to the SC?

I have no problem with a knock down, drag out fight for what we believe in, and it's past time that we do so on several fronts, but...

Constitutionally, it is the right of every President to nominate judges to the SC. It's just silly for anyone to think Shrub is going to name a "Ted Kennedy like" person, so who DO you want him to pick?

[berni_mccoy]

118. Nobody for now... let's filibuster until 2006 when we take back Congress

[napi21]

120. Well, that's a thought, but an unrealistic one.

Unfortunately, Shrub does have the right to name judges, and within reason, we have to accept his choice.

Someone said, elections come with a price. I don't recall how said it, but they were right.

[berni_mccoy]

121. There ought to be a price for incompetence, cronyism and criminal activity

But apparently there isn't unless Americans stand up and demand Bush pays that price...

Saying elections come with a price is just defeatest B.S.

[bettyellen]

145. you think he's within reason??? obviously, many of us do not.

[tyedyeto]

153. Bullshit...We DON"T have to accept his choice

The president can nominate, but the Senate confirms. The president doesn't have to power to just appoint this individual.

The Dems should do everything possible to block this nominee including filibuster. If the Thugs want to go ahead with the nuclear option...I say...


SHUT IT DOWN

[mom cat]

270. he has the right to nominate, not name...There is a big difference.

Nomination requires the advice and concent of congress, Reid advised Bush not to do it. It was Bush who dod not listen.
Time to withhole consent!

[TankLV]

313. This is just upping the anti.

The repukes SUCCESSFULLY kept literally HUNDREDS of judicial positions UNFILLED during Clinton's terms - and they were REWARDED with CONTROL OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS!

I expect no less from our Democratic politicians.

[OneBlueSky]

221. "let's filibuster until 2006 when we take back Congress" . . .

dream on, friend . . . despite what the polls may say, the fact remains that THEY still control the voting machines, and that Republican corporations will still tabulate the vote counts in 2006, with no oversight from anyone . . . the Republican Congress has absolutely no incentive -- NONE -- to change that reality, and even most Democrats are quite willing to go along with the status quo, thank you very much . . .

the 2006 elections will turn out EXACTLY as BushCo wants them to . . . why? . . . because they can! . . . QED . . .

[Walt Starr]

119. I want right of center

not Right of rational.

That is not bashing. That is laying out where I draw the line.

[femrap]

159. How about someone who thinks women should have control

over their own bodies? Someone who doesn't think that a husband has the right to treat his wife like property? How about someone like that?

[0007]

123. The time has come and it is now folks. n/t

Rally the cause.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. AGREED, SHUT IT DOWN.

MESSAGE TO OUR MEALY MOUTHED "PLAY NICE" CONGRESSPEOPLE - THIS IS WHY YOU'RE THERE. If you can't hold the line on this fucker- someone who thinks women's reproductive systems BELONG TO THEIR HUSBANDS more than they belong to THEMSELVES..

THEN FUCK YOU, YOU'RE USELESS, I AM REGISTERING GREEN.

[joanski0]

126. Yes, shut it down. We don't need

any more legislation from this cabal of crooks, liars, murderers, etc. And we sure don't need ANY of the people that they nominate for Government positions.

[JJackFlash]

127. agreed

[confludemocrat]

128. The Democratic Party will pass into history if this one is lost

because it had no principles and went quietly to it's own demise.

[in_cog_ni_to]

130. I AGREE! SHUT IT DOWN!

Enough is enough. The idiot WANTS this fight! GIVE IT TO HIM!!!!

[catmother]

133. i say SHUT IT DOWN enough is enough n/t

[Roxy66]

134. SHUT IT DOWN!!!

[betterdeadthanred]

137. Indeed

If the Dems roll over on this nomination, I will cancel the monthly contributions. I will be DONE.

[bettyellen]

138. AGREED!

to go one this way, as if they have any part in the process is bullshit.
the repugs want to govern against the wishes of 60% of the people
it has to end

[femrap]

139. SHUT IT DOWN!

Now is the time to fight...it's now or never.

[Guaranteed]

144. 110% agreed. I am dead sure of this. TAKE NO PRISONERS. nt

[hiley]

149. Shut it down now is right!

No more bs it is do or die.

[MojoXN]

151. This should have been done in 2000...

When the Right didn't control the entire legislature. If the Dems try this tactic now, it'll get them nowhere. The Right has all of the votes that it needs to do whatever the hell it wants. If the Dems try this, they'll quickly find that they've made themselves irrelevant.

Just my $.02

MojoXN

[Joanne98]

154. Fight everything like a murder beef.

[msongs]

155. while yer at it demand dems Inc does something about e vote fraud nt

[Quixote1818]

156. I am as moderate as they come and I say: "SHUT IT DOWN!!!"

:woohoo: :applause: :headbang: :toast: :applause: :woohoo:

[WyLoochka]

158. Absolutely, SHUT IT DOWN

[Vektor]

160. I'm reaching the end of my rope too.

They need to go balls out on this. Enough is enough.

[ailsagirl]

161. kick

[kid a]

162. Do I hear 100 (recommends)

[lonestarnot]

163. "Error, you already recommended" LOL

[Zhade]

165. Agreed. No conviction to fight evil? No votes, time, money, or sympathy.

NT!

[LittleClarkie]

167. When did you start using the royal "we" Walt?

We, kemosabi?

[Beelzebud]

168. That would be GREAT. Not so sure our elected dems will do it though..

I would LOVE it if they did. But they have not shown a willingness to fight, yet. So they'll have to prove to me that they are up to the challenge..

[Quixote1818]

170. Send this thread to your Democratic Senator and Congressman, here

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt?command=congdir

[Miss Chybil]

171. The line has been drawn. Give us liberty, or give us...

... well, you know the rest.

Let's roll!

[Clarkie1]

172. Kick and nominated. Thank you for this post! n/t

[The Kicker]

173. Shut it down!

We have run out of time. The whites of their eyes are almost in view. Capitulation to the darkness that is running this country,and putting this whole world at risk, must end. The patient(US) is in critical condition. Time for emergency surgery. SHUT IT DOWN!

[IndianaGreen]

176. Act like a real opposition party: SHUT IT DOWN!

I just as soon have paralysis in government than have another Scalia on SCOTUS.

[Arkana]

178. I agree 100%

The fucking kid gloves are off! They're not fucking around any more, and neither should we. Fight this fucking nomination TOOTH AND NAIL!

[Dharma_Bum]

182. CHARGE!!!

[UDenver20]

183. AMEN

[Martin Eden]

185. OK, then what?

Do you expect Bush to nominate someone less conservative?

Do you think the Dems could stall until the 2006 midterms?

Do you think a filibuster would help us win the midterms?

The Republican Party -- and the Bush administration in particular -- are reeling from disasters and scandals. Shutting down government over this Supreme Court nomination could distract attention from those problems, re-energize the conservative base, and help them characterize Democrats as offering nothing other than obstruction.

I agree that another appointment of a far-right judge to the Supreme Court is an unmitigated disaster, but is it a disaster we can realistically prevent?

If we can, and can do it without self-destructing, then by all means let's do it.

To succeed, the Democratic Party will have to make a very strong case than Alito is either unqualified or that he is an ideologue with an agenda that will do real harm to our country. It has to be about more than just abortion. We need to show -- convincingly -- that he will curtail citizens' rights or the power of Congress to regulate corporate malfeasance and environmental destruction.

Otherwise, the public will not be convinced that shutting down government over Alito's nomination is justified. It would get real, real ugly, and if we somehow succeed in getting Bush to withdraw Alito can we expect the next nominee to be significantly more palatable? Would the public have the stomach or the patience for another sustained fight?

If the Democrats are going to grow a spine over this nomination, it had better damned well be attached to a brain -- because this is a very dangerous game of political nuclear brinkmanship.

[Quixote1818]

190. The Devils Advocate and voice of reason

You make some good points and probably changed my mind on this. It will be important for Dem's to build public opposition to Alito. If we can do that then Republicans will fold. A good ad campaign showing how devastating moving the balance of the court might be could really freak out the public and stop Alito in his tracks.

[Martin Eden]

256. Everyone is just a little too gung ho on this

We better have a pretty darn good strategy and chance of success, because this kind of showdown will push everything else (much of which could be to our advantage) to the sidelines.

Yes, we need to build real public opposition to Alito and make the public wary of the consequences of tipping the balance of the court solidly to the right.

Unfortunately that's exactly what a significant percentage of the populace wants, and many in the middle don't have a real grasp of the implications. We need to bring it home to them in concrete terms by spelling out what would likely be overturned and how reasonable restraints would be removed from corporate kleptocrats and polluters.

I don't know Alito well enough (and don't have the expertise in Constitutional law) to assess whether a strong case can be made along those lines based on his record.

If we come off as basically arguing that Bush should not be permitted to appoint a conservative, we don't have much of a case. It was a given after the 2004 election was stolen that Supreme Court vacancies would be filled by conservatives. We have to demonstrate that this particular conservative is unacceptable compared to other qualified conservatives.

I know how everyone feels -- we've been on outrage overload for 5 years and we need to make a stand and show the wingnuts there is real opposition in this country. It would be great if we could spark the country into shouting from the rooftops (like Howard Beale in the movie Network) I'm made as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!!!

I just don't know if a showdown over this nomination will do the trick, or if we can succeed in preventing Alito or someone like him taking O'Connor's place on the Court.

[elsiesummers]

265. Wish we could turn 6 Repubs against Alito and lose on vote...

It seems to me that the best option would be to stop Alito with 51 or more votes against confirmation, forcing Bush to send up a moderate Republican.

But, if this is not possible, then I don't see what Democrats have to lose with a filibuster. It seems to me that a shut down would not only stop the Alito nomination but prevent Bush from passing more anti-democratic legislation - from budget cuts in social programs to supposed tax reform that hurts the middle class and benefits corporations. It would be an added bonus to stop the Bush agenda from moving forward.

Yes there would be people who would suffer because of a shutdown in the short term. Government worker's raises and colas would probably be halted (though with Bush making supposed 3% government cuts these things might be stalled anyway.) I tend to think the suffering created by the further imposition of a Bush agenda, over the long term, will be infinitely worse than short term non-funding of Bush programs. Perhaps if future Iraq war funding is unavailable then that war will have to wind down and troops come home.

Overall, I simply don't see the downside to a filibuster IF Democrats are certain they can't win on the vote against Alito.

Alito losing the confirmation vote does seem the ideal solution. If all Dems vote against him plus Snowe, Chaffee, maybe Hagel, McCain, Specter(sp?) we only need one other. Could this happen?

[Martin Eden]

287. We need public opinion on our side ...

... and we need it BIG time to get 6 Republican senators to defect on the Alito vote. The downside to shutting down government isn't that the government's work won't get done -- it's that such a ploy will turn public opinion against the Democrats. Remember when Gingrich and his "contract with America" had their budget showdown/shutdown with Clinton? Bill came away from that as the clear winner -- not necessarily because he was so slick or because the people agreed with him on the issues -- my take on it was that the mainstream middle has little patience or appetite for these kinds of tactics and they shun those who can be characterized as ideological zealots.

With so many disasters and scandals that can be convincingly laid at the feet of the Republican Party and the Bush administration, the Democratic Party has an excellent opportunity to influence public opinion in our favor. Lumberjack_Jeff's response below suggests waging a battle on a broad front, and I agree that we should hit them with their lies on Iraq, with budget deficits, with falling wages, with FEMA, with the rape of the environment -- and the Alito nomination can be woven into this package to illustrate how a rightwing Supreme Court will compound the disasters launched by the current rightwing administration.

It's a public relations battle, and we've got a lot of real ammunition from the reality-based world that everyone actually lives in. The message needs to be clear, concise, irrefutable, and delivered by leaders who also offer positive solutions -- including on how to salvage the best possible outcome from the mess in Iraq.

If we make progress on all of these fronts and the Dems are seen as a positive alternative rather than impotent whiners, we'll be in a stronger position to defeat the Alito nomination. But the primary goal has to be reclaiming Congress in 2006, the presidency in 2008, and REAL progressive reform of government.

Shutting down government should be in our arsenal, but used only if it advances these goals

I just heard the result of the closed-door Senate session was to go forward with phase II of the Iraq intelligence investigation -- YES!!! If it's not another whitewash, we can keep these rethugs on the ropes.

[elsiesummers]

314. I think a filibuster could be a PR win for 2006 elections if...

If the PR is handled correctly.

First - Dems should be able to demonstrate that Alito is the exceptional case. This is easier because Bush pulled Miers since the far right squawked. So Alito is a second choice made when Bush caved to fanatics.

Second - Alito's past/record needs to be demonstrated as extreme and out of the mainstream. This will be easier to do with all that speaking time on the floor.

Third - Alito is not an appropriate replacement for O'Conner - would be appropriate to replace Scalia at a later date.

I do agree that Democrats must always come off as the voice of reason. Frankly, I really did not see the shutdown as that of Gingrich or of Clinton but of both of their makings. I think it left the public believing that because of an impasse the budget was balanced.

If Frist goes nuclear we can show that Repubs are nutty and dictatorial. If he doesn't then we keep the filibuster and stop the nomination.

I think we can make a judicial impasse an opportunity to educate and create a sense of reasonableness about wanting judges to reflect Americans.

Alito's ivy league pedigree and WM status can also be used to demonstrate that Bush is not inclusive but elitist when it really counts.

It seems to me that the way Reid got the cameras on him and his message out on Intelligence Hearings is a positive example of mixing things up resulting in PR. In the minority Dems don't get much attention. It is by doing something different that Dems can gain attention which could be used to promote the 2006 elections. Also, in hindsight, the Gingrich revolution added to Republican House seats so I don't see how this could be bad for Dems (though definitely a higher risk strategy).

I still hope Leahey can postpone the hearings until the new year leaving arm twisting time to switch six Republicans.

But if this doesn't work, a filibuster, under the "do anything" column rather than the do nothing approach seems like the best choice. Otherwise I don't see how Democrats gain in 2006 (looking like powerless wusses) and we get stuck with Alito - when there are so many things wrong with this nominee.

[LilBitRad]

254. Best response on the thread.

Kudos

[Martin Eden]

258. Thanks

Nearly everyone was all for jumping right into this fire. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but let's make sure we have an asbestos suit and know ahat's on the other side.

[LilBitRad]

289. You're welcome.

I generally don't post to a lot of threads (observer by nature), but I thought a well reasoned response deserved recognition.

I understand everyone's anguish, but don't necessarily agree that shutting it down is the answer at this point.

If Alito had a continued history of being so far right that he was horizontal, that would scare the living crap out of me. All fundies scare the crap out of me, but I'm not seeing it here.

No doubt, he is right of center, but, is he so far right the government needs to be shut down to prevent any chance of confirmation?

Because he has hundreds of rulings over the last fifteen years, the hearings will be revealing.

We'll see.

[lumberjack_jeff]

280. Rat Own. Not "mousey rat" but Rat Own!

Well said.

I'm down with outrage. I'm down with playing rough.

I'm not down with self-mutilation.

Using parlimentary means to obstruct congress is fine - so long as it is done for promoting a cause that the GUMS (great unwashed masses) can agree with.

Torture is one. Criminality is one. Outing spies is one. Lying to start a war is another.

Wrap it up in one big package and use that to shut down government. Delaying Scalito's nomination is just a side benefit.

[Burried News]

186. Nukem till they glow.

Take back the kitchen - they've cooked up enough trouble

[Jokinomx]

187. Shut it Down....n/t

[slay]

189. We are watching

No more rolling over at the heels of Republican fascists. :mad:

[buddysmellgood]

191. Shut it down

[caligirl]

194. Good God, I love this, right on!

[OKthatsIT]

195. SHUT IT DOWN.

Congress has become so destructive to its citizens, its workers and the environment...we're better off.

PLEASE. We want no part of a fascist judicial..but you Dems keep WUSSING OUT on US.

[GreenPoet64]

196. I agree . . . SHUT IT DOWN n/t

[caligirl]

197. An Engraved announcement sent to Bush announcing this would be nice.

[fearnobush]

198. Wreak it, Sabotage it, do what ever, just SHUT IT DOWN.

No guts, no glory.

[fooj]

200. Shut it down!

Enough is enough.

peace.

[FizzFuzz]

201. Now is the time. This guy's record is a slap in the face. I emailed

to ask if the Activist Alert could be used for this issue to get out our voices easily.

After all, we can agree and slap each other's palms, but make it easy for large numbers of us to contact the people that need to hear our voices, and it will be much more effective.

[Helga Scow Stern]

202. Right On!

[ClayZ]

203. SHUT IT DOWN!

2 votes from this house!


:mad:

[Baconfoot]

205. We cannot keep redrawing our line in the sand. This far. No further.

Perhaps we are beyond line in the sand drawing, however.
Very well. I believe there is a military term for the maneuver I would have in mind in that case: Retreat towards the front.
(or something like that)

[Maraya1969]

206. I concur - 100% They better take action on this one.

Or they are a bunch of weenies. I'm sick of the weenies.

[donheld]

208. Shut it down NOW

It's past time to fight.

[BlueIris]

209. Walt Starr? People ask me why you are my favorite. This is why.

Okay, so you tie with Redstone, O.L.L. and southlandshari, but you're still my favorite.

Fight or die, indeed.

Rock on, DU non-defeatist!

[bliss_eternal]

210. Thank you for this, Walt Starr--

:yourock:

Shut it down--hell yeah! Fantastic post!

[Polemicist]

211. You can't win if you don't fight....

We can't allow a small vocal special interest group to override what the majority of Americans wish, and turn back the clock 50 years on social justice in America.

If the Democrats in the Senate won't go down swinging to stop this nomination, we must replace them with Democrats with backbone, willing to fight for the American people.

We have been screwed too long by the Republicans.

Go Nuclear. Shut it down. Shut it down.

[EuroObserver]

212. T'would certainly awaken the apathetic

and shake up the grassroots.

Note: Hitler achieved dictatorial powers in 1933 when, in spite of his party being in a overall minority, he frightened the Reichstag parliament into passing the so-called Enabling Act which effectively turned the Reichstag into a rubber-stamp, putting both legislative and executive (and by extension judicial) powers in his hands.

Your House and Senate, even without a formal 'Enabling Act' increasingly looks like rubber-stamps just now...

[hiabrill]

214. Now you're talking.....

The grass roots need to push this agenda to the Dem leadership...!

[Hardrada]

219. Did you ever see that footage of Franz von Papen

trying to make a point of order or motion in the Reichstag when Hermann Wilhelm Goering was in the speaker's chair. He couldn't do it. Goering just ignored him and all the Nazis made a big commotion too. I expect something similar here.

[IndyOp]

222. I think we have a shot here - Hitler had not just had a string of

collosal failures when von Papen made his motion - his approval rating was not 39%.

IF the Senate Dems UNITE around filibustering, around shutting the Senate down - no wavering, I believe the Senate Republicans will blink. Most Senate Repubs rose to become Senators before the Culture of Corruption birthed the Rethug scum in the House.

:kick:

[chimppyhater]

220. The loonies

have 3 more years left. How in the world are you going to shut it down that long??

[Walt Starr]

224. You simply FOLLOW THE RULES

that's all it takes.

[IndyOp]

223. SIGN THE MoveOn PETITION TO STOP ALITO - 250,000 Signatures in 24 Hours!

Sign the MoveOn Petition to Stop Alito!

"The nomination of Samuel Alito poses a grave threat to the protections Americans count on, including basic workers’ rights, women’s rights, and civil rights. We call on the Senate to stand up for all of us and reject the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court of the United States."

Sign the MoveOn Petition to Stop Alito!

[Walt Starr]

225. I did!

:evilgrin:

[FizzFuzz]

235. Done! Here's my comment. Including the words: "SHUT IT DOWN"

I call on you now to insist on the unity of all Senators to oppose this nomination.

Now is the time. The truth is coming out, the spin and distractions are losing their hypnotic power.

We cannot afford further disorganized placating.

Filibuster, SHUT IT DOWN. Negotiating never works with bullies, and it is time to deliver an ultimatum.

The American People NEED LEADERSHIP NOW.

Respectfully,
FizzFuzz

:patriot:

[cascadiance]

261. New goal is now 350,000. 84% there now with 295,759 sigs...

Let's get it up to 350,000 quickly too!

[Canuckistanian]

227. You seem very adamant about this, Walt

Can this be done? Is the political will there? And, most importantly, is there enough time?
Could this be the insurrection that breaks the cycle?

[iamahaingttta]

228. Shut it down?

You realize, of course, that shutting it down is exactly what the conservatives want us to do.
Shut it down, never to reopen again.
Then, drown it in a bathtub...

[primative1]

230. Who cares what they want ...

Isnt this more about what we want?
We are on a runaway train going backwards to the 18th century. I for one feel we would be much better served to see the plug pulled until such time as repairs can be made.

[elsiesummers]

316. They can't "drown it in a bathtub" while it's shut down.

This is the best reason of all to shut it down - to stop the tax reform package from ever hitting the floor.

The current Repubs are using Katrina to cut food stamps and school lunches. We prevent them from further cuts if it's shut down. It's easier to shut it down than to live with the heinous legislation they'll be passing over the next three years.

Let's face it, our democracy is all but dead, and we're better off if Republicans are so frustrated with not passing tax reform or spending more on war that they go to extremes, perhaps try to arrest Democrats during the shutdown, and show themselves to even the most blind for who they really are: radicals and dictators.

Democrats should shut it down IF they can't garner 51 votes against Alito.

Two of Bush's Supreme Court picks DECIMATED will make lame duck status official. This will also force a compromise pick. So, we need to stop Alito one way or another.

[PowerToThePeople]

229. Shut it Down!!!! n/t

[Coexist]

231. Let them reap what they have sown.

Give 'em hell, Democrats.

[rndmprsn]

232. amen brother starr

i for one am ready to fight it out with these facists, no more mincing words and being polite call them what they are...this country is worth fighting for and my fervernt wish is that harry reid and co will filibuster and like you say...

SHUT IT DOWN!

lets roll up our sleeves and get ready for this huge fight!

[kurth]

233. Ask very tough questions to UNMASK Alito. Then FILIBUSTER!

If the GOP wants the nuclear option, then hell, NUKE 'em!

It's better to leave the vacancy open than to fill it with a Scalia clone.

[MessiahRp]

234. The funny thing is..

I don't see them doing it even if they wanted to because they have to know that they are on the verge of a sweeping change starting with '06 and that they would be screwed if they gave up the filibuster.

Rp

[BOYLANE]

236. Yes! Shut the whole damned show down!

I'm so god damned sick of the radical right thinking they can do any f#*king thing they like to our once great nation and get away with it. Of course, up until now they have gotten away with it. It's time to fight the bastards! They are a radical fringe minority who have been very smart and calculated well in their rise to power, but NO GOD DAMNED MORE! They have to be stopped in order to save our country. IF the dems don't stand up now, they will never. Get some f#*king backbone and stop these un-American, undemocratic fascist theocRATS!!!!!!!!!!

[derby378]

237. Recommended for the 150th time

Shut the motherfucker down.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

238. I wish I recommend again - but a kick will do - SHUT IT DOWN!

[readmoreoften]

246. I wish we could have double, triple, quadruple recommend.n/t

[CanOfWhoopAss]

239. SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT... SHUT IT... DOWN!!! SHUT IT DOWN! (NT)

[MuseRider]

242. It will be about damned time.

I have not had time to read the entire thread, I am sure that when I get home later and do I will find much to think about but Walt, I agree with you so strongly on this.

The way I see it is that we get such bad media attention with so little actual facts that people will not understand what is going on, they will just think that the Dems are being obstructionists because that is all they will hear. Shut her down for a while and someone will ask why (surely?). That is our opportunity to tell the people how things have been handled in OUR houses for the last 5 years. Harry Reid is very good at this, when he is asked I think he will actually do a great job of letting people know. That being said we also have to hope that the public will listen and be able to comprehend what he is saying or at least care enough to try. Those things are debatable at this point because I really am concerned that people just don't give a damn anymore.

It is long past time for a wake up call and it is time to stand at the scratch line.

[CornField]

243. I wrote to both Harkin and Grassley yesterday

The subject of this thread was the basis of my post.

I disapprove of Alito because his views are radical, they are not the views of the majority of America. I stated that I support any and all measures to prevent him successful passage and that I support the Democratic Party in any backlash if the GOP makes good on its "go nuclear" threat.

The GOP would do well to remember how dangerous an opponent can be when backed into a corner with nothing else to lose.

[Raster]

245. I too say SHUT IT DOWN!!!

It is as plain as day: bushco* was NEVER legally, lawfully elected to the presidency. Members of bushco* at the highest level are guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. bushco* has no legal or moral authority to place ANYONE--especially someone so contrary to the will of the people--on the SCOTUS. It's time to stop the madness.

[drm604]

247. What will it take?

How many Senators will it take to do this? How many do we need to convince? I'm hoping that it's just a few.

[kywildcat]

249. Count me in n/t

[Tuesday_Morning]

250. kick and recommend!

Time to shut it down.

[Tatiana]

251. Once upon a time, a President named Bill Clinton shut down the government.

He forced a show-down between himself and the Republicans.

Guess what?

The Republicans backed down.

[aintitfunny]

252. I am for it - SHUT IT DOWN (n/t)

[AzDar]

259. I agree....Stand together or fall apart. SHUT THAT MO'FO' DOWN!!

[mom cat]

260. I have been screaming the same thing for months to my senators and rep.

They should have done it over Roberts
and mercury emision standards, and home heating assistance ant the Patriot Act
The list goes on and on and on.
The admin does not represent the people. If the Dems do not draw a line in the sand now, then the whole game is up. We might as well all get out our white flags and give up on representative democracy!

[tjl]

262. Politicians

Call me a cynic but I think in whatever you do you have to remember the politicians cardinal (and maybe only) rule: will what I do help me get reelected? Each senator will see different needs, different votes to do this. If voting against your wishes accomplishes the goal of reelection - guess what - you lose. I submit to you that you had better make whatever action you want to take and make it meet the needs of the senator and the voting tendencies of his/her state.
I'm afraid they think it is better to be a senator in the minority then no senator at all.

[Pathwalker]

263. Looks like you got your wish, Walt!!!

:party: :toast: :bounce:

[Arkana]

264. You've called, Walt...

and the Democrats have responded.

[bluedawg12]

266. Walt!!! You da' man! Go DEMS ! Kick their smarmy ass. n/t

[ChiciB1]

267. Well It's About (expletive) TIME!!

WHOOOOOPPPPPEEEE!!

I'm mad and not going to take it anymore!! Are THEY REALLY finally getting OUR message????

Could it be that they finally got that shot of cortisone in their spines???


Oh, please let this last, take hold and make America FINALLy sit up and take notice!!!

I just ordered my "I Want My Democracy Back Now" bumper sticker from Democracy NOW! I ordered 25 of them, oh just so I could plaster them here and there!!

Going back to see "what's popping!"

[moondust]

268. Board it up and go home!

Call it the Antinuclear Option.

Better to do absolutely nothing than allow Republicans to tyrannize the world.

[NVMojo]

269. I think Reid heard you!

[Griffy]

273. My thought to.. or at least we all sensed that it was time to strike...

of course many think this is way late, but you gotta admit, they are ALOT weaker now than they have ever been... indictments and investigations everwhere, Iraq over 2000 offical dead, polls below 40%, spin machine weakening and AAR and such growing.... it all makes sense...

[NoSheep]

271. Shut it down!

:kick:

[Broken Acorn]

272. Good work dude!

It's Hard Work shutting down Congress :)

[myrna minx]

274. I guess Senator Reid heeded the call.

:bounce:

[Greybnk48]

275. Bravo Walt

Once again you hit the nail on the head!! Perfect timing.

[katinmn]

277. Walt Star 2008!

Just kiddin. But good call.

[LeftNYC]

278. Actions speak louder than words! nt

[Danger Duck]

279. Looks like they heeded your call...

[RedEarth]

281. DAMN RIGHT ..... Walt they might have heard you ... finally they're

growing some spine!!!!!!

[cynatnite]

282. My hat's off to Walt!

:yourock:

[kid a]

283. SHUT IT DOWN _ DEMAND ANSWERS

[CoffeeCat]

284. Awesome post!!!!!

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

No more putting up with these thugs.

It's time to fight and fight hard.

[earth mom]

285. Wow! I think your words did it!

:applause:

[ClayZ]

286. Amazing!!!!

:toast:

[peekaloo]

288. That's some powerful mojo you got there Walt!

:toast:

[Elidor]

290. Walt, are you privy to some source of info we don't know about?

I'd almost think you knew this was coming.

[New Earth]

304. how ironic

if you wish something hard enough with good intention, eventually, it's going to happen.

:bounce:

[TankLV]

305. SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN!

SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT DOWN!

[nickshepDEM]

308. Yeah, shut it down. That worked so well for the GOP in the 90's.

:crazy:

[Demi_Babe]

312. SHUT IT DOWN

[Dr Fate]

315. Clinton was a popular President with a great economy & no fake wars.

While Bush is the most corrupt and most unpoular president in history.

I'm open to media stunts. If a Shut down is what it takes, so be it.

[Tesla]

317. Shut it down!!! Again!!

KICK!!!!

[WillyT]

318. I Agree... SHUT IT DOWN !!!

:kick:

[zulchzulu]

319. I've been saying this since January

We need to just stop the maddening machine. Nothing will get passed, nothing will get through....

NOTHING!

[BewilderedCitizen]

321. Hell Yes!