Bush's approval is not "low," it's high. And it's bad news for 2006.

[Ian_rd]

Bush's 39% approval rating is not amazing because it's so low. It's amazing because it's so high.

Thirty-nine percent means there are about 80 million voting-age Americans (out of about 200) who "approve" of a fraudulent war that has killed thousands of Americans and God-knows-how-many Iraqis for lies. They "approve" of economic policies that have adequately proven by now to increase the wealth of a tiny elite and hurt the great majority of working Americans. They "approve" of the dumbing-down of our education system to the point that it's the laughing stock of the modern world. They "approve" of Bush filling the vital positions of our government with people whose only qualification is being buddies with him or his fundraisers. They "approve" of pharmaceutical and energy lobbyists writing our laws regarding healthcare and environmental protection. And last but not least, they "approve" of treason in the name of dirty politics.

Even after all the exposure of the complete and total corruption and incompetence of the Republican Party and the Bush White House over the past few months, 4 in 10 Americans APPROVE!

Who the f*ck are these people? What can possibly make them lose faith in this president?

This spells great trouble for the Democrats in 2006 and 2008. This essentially means that approximately 40% of Americans will vote Republican no matter what. They have been trained by AM radio, Fox News, and the Pat Robertsons of our nation to believe in the Republicans as they believe in Jesus Christ. They are immune to facts and logic, only the Republican Word matters.

How can the Democrats possibly overcome this advantage? My prediction stands for this reason and others: The Republicans will win in 2006 and 2008 unless the Democrats do something that is nothing short of revolutionary. THEY must do something, because these polls show that no matter what the Republicans do, they will retain their very large and ignorant base.

Someone please explain to me how I'm wrong and why I should be optimistic.

[gordianot]

1. Democrats need to take over Diebold.

Then they might have a chance.

[Ian_rd]

3. Diebold is definitely a serious problem, but Diebold ...

... affects the vote, not the opinion polls that are (at least at this time) independent of Bush's buddies.

[gordianot]

11. I have a feeling the opinion polls are as accurate as Diebold.

It depends on who owns the poll. I suspect Bush approval is much lower than 39%.

[newspeak]

69. BINGO!

yes, I remember my statistics professor stating that any poll or statistic can be manipulated.

[Richard D]

5. Good idea . . .

. . . any super-rich dems who could do a hostile buy-out of Diebold? Weird concept that but it might be the only hope.

[gordianot]

19. Do they have public stock?

I'd be willing to buy a few shares.

[BigYawn]

23. Yes, Diebold stock trades on the NY Stock Exchange

and over the years it has done very well...unfortunately.

[FormerDittoHead]

65. Beg to differ... (buying opportunity or dog?)

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/intchart/frames/frames.asp?symb=dbd&Input=Submit

(look at the 3 year view with daily or weekly frequency)

edited to add guidance for dynamic link

[BigYawn]

68. DBD was in lower 20's in 2000, and I remember it was in 50's

in 2004. I have not followed it recently since I got out
of the stock market last year. But looking at your chart,
it looks like either a dog or a great buying opportunity
in the mid 30's. Only time will tell.

[electropop]

30. Soros.

He's definitely anti-Bush. I don't know whether he's expressed views on the election theft.

http://www.georgesoros.com/

[RandomKoolzip]

2. It's insane, isn't it?

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that people think what the Bush Administation has done and is doing is totally okay. It's as if people WANT to live in the crappiest world possible, stuggling against the worst odds....are Americans masochists?!

Oh yeah. I forgot......"the Rapture." There's the key.

[leveymg]

4. Someone posted something about Bush eating a kid and 15% would still

still support him. Same with really bad tyrants - they have some insane followers. The worse the leader, the crazier his hardcore supporters tend to be.

By American standards, this guy's 15% is about as bad as it gets.

[rock]

18. Look! He's devised a way to feed the starving millions and

to reduce overpopulation at the same time! (/end sarcasm)

[FreedomAngel82]

60. Oh of course

As long as there's no blue stained dress. Heh.

[ixion]

6. sadly, history is not on our side

People want to believe that they're on the side of 'good' no matter how much evidence to the contrary they're presented with.

[afdip]

7. i understand the rant, but you already know the answer.

a great majority of amerikans are not too terribly intelligent and half of that significant number are actually dumber than a stump.

[rkc3]

13. It lends credence to the old stand-by...

80% of the people you meet are below average.

[Nikki Stone 1]

8. You're exactly right here.

recommended

[Chipper Chat]

9. As long as Fox News and Rush Limbaugh exist

it's an uphill battle. My parents (in their 70s) were so anti-Kerry last year it puzzled me. I went home last week for a visit and was appalled to find out they are Fox News junkies. Mom says the "women on there are smart." I didnt want to lecture them - just made my opinion known. And Rush will keep his dittoheads despite his drug problem and blatant-lies agenda.
I dont have a good answer for you (it's depressing).

[stanwyck]

27. I agree. Fox is making pod people

faster than Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.
My brother, who voted for Clinton -- twice, started watching Faux and is now a Bushie. Same for my Dad.
I'm totally at a loss to explain this. Both are very educated people who should know better.
But.
They don't.
And, I hate to admit this, they've both suffered in my estimation as a result.
I'll always love them.
But my respect for their intelligence and judgment has diminished.

[ginnyinWI]

31. eh...

The people who watch FOX or listen to Rush are dyed in the wool and won't change, but we don't need them to win...we need our base, which we have, and we need the moderate Republicans and Independents. And * is losing them in droves. These kinds of people are not so affected by propaganda.

[CrispyQ]

45. Arghh!!!

Last year, I told my mom the MSM was reporting that there were no WMD & she denied it! She then told me if I would only watch Fox news I would be more informed. "They really are the best news out there."

:puke:

Honestly, is there a way to debate a mind like that?

[expatriot]

10. Because it is lower than it ever has been before.

these 35-40% of the population who still approve of him are either complete schmucks, not listening, in denial, unknowing or unconscious... but you will have that..many of them are brainwashed into thinking that disapproval of the president is a sign of weakness and unpatriotic. this is nothing new, we will always be fighting blind loyalty and blind patriotism.

Also, Just because they say they "approve" of the President doesn't mean they are excited about him, that they will go to the polls to vote straight R's.

[CrispyQ]

46. ...and blind nationality.

I wonder how many of them are actually in denial that America has become a second rate nation. They still need to hang onto the idea that we are number one & part of that includes defending what the administration is doing, because if they were to admit that what bushco is doing is wrong, then they would have to face the fact that we are a country about to go over a cliff & they can't handle that reality.

I think a good share of his base are people who don't deal well with & are threatened by change. They will do anything to maintain the status quo, all the while denying that the only constant in the universe is change.

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. You're very naive if you believe the polls.

[lastknowngood]

17. Your more naive not to I work with these A__holes everyday they

are 100% in support of the shrub and his menions, and can find not only nothing wrong with what they do but are cheering it on.

[warrens]

14. 32% or so is as low as he can go

There's the purple tonguers (Kool-Aid drinkers), who are about 20 percent, another 10 percent who are religiously deranged, and a few others who approve of anything a president does because he's the president and presidents are always right.

That's his base, and they will only abandon him when they are actually being physically beaten by the sane.

[Iowa]

41. Great one warrens! 100% on the money.

[tabasco]

15. You summed up my opinion too.

The republicans spend billions on propaganda and it works.

This is a nation of very gullible people.

I do not foresee real change until the republicans cause massive social and economic meltdown. I think it is inevitable.

The Civil War was inevitable because of the intransigence and treason of the South. Another collapse of the Nation is inevitable because of the intransigence and treason of the republicans.

[mwb970]

51. The same group that caused the Civil War caused the Bush disaster.

And weren't they the ones who backed King George and didn't want America to be formed in the first place?

They have disliked the idea of America and its Constitution right from the beginning, and they still hate it. We are living with the results of putting these people in charge of something they despise.

Why are we surprised that virtually everything this administration does makes our nation weaker? That's the goal.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. That 40%, I think, consists mostly of the following:

1. People who are pretty much brainwashed by their fundie preachers.
2. People who are motivated mainly by fear, and actually believe Bush's chest-thumping rhetoric about keeping us "safe."
3. People who are both greedy and ignorant, and who haven't figured out yet that Bush's terrible economic policies will eventually bite them in the ass.

[BigYawn]

24. and those 40% probably vote in large numbers

UGH!

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. In any population

about 30% have hard core fascist tendencies. This was found after Hitler did his beauties. Hell you can even find some people who TODAY defend the Fuhrer

Now Nixon and Hitler are not comparable in deeds, but Nixon's silent majority evaporated, as you well know... yet I met a fella two years ago that was willing to publicly defend Nixon... now I am sure you will not be too shocked to find out that he had no problem with the USPA, or for that matter, George...

We are approaching that percentage of the population and you will not be able to do much to change these folks... mostly they are hard core right winger, Porto fascist rs and I suspect that part of their personality is allowed to come out freely when we have so called leaders like bush boy

[saracat]

21. This is negativity that I can do without. Bush is beginning to

tank even with his supporters. I know many diehard Bushies that are fed up. We are going to win in 2006. It is very obvious and this is a very dower and dispiriting post. You can look at the facts that way if you like buty even the media has turned on Bush, and things are now very different. I will be surprised if he fills out his term!

[Silverhair]

61. So a conservative that is mad at Bush is going to vote Liberal????

Please explain how that is going to happen.

[saracat]

64. Yes. They need a choice. And look at the numbers. Bush is even behind in

Texas. And Conservatives are interested in balancing the budget and Homeland Security. Only the Dems handle those issues well.Clinton balanced the budget as,most of the Dem Govs have done and it is only the Dem Gov's who have made an effort to control the borders. People have been noticing that ,in addition to other issues. According to the polls, the voters also prefer the Dems on the issue of taxes! Go figure. Yeah, the Conservatives especially will vote for the Dems, if they are true Conservatives.

[Ian_rd]

22. So what do you honestly think Bush's approval would drop to ...

... if there was undisputed video of him shooting a child to death outside the White House? No sarcasm, I'm really curious.

Sure, you'd have the "The child looked suspicious - could have been a madrasa-trained suicide bomber for all Bush knew!" crowd of about 10%, but what do you think his overall would be?

[VolcanoJen]

25. I liked the way Tina Fey looked at it, on SNL.

She said something like, "Recent polls show that 55% of Americans think President Bush is doing a poor job. The other percent believe Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church."

[latebloomer]

48. Ah, thanks!

I was trying to remember that quote-- or even who I heard it from, in response to this post. Was thinkin- "Was it Bill Maher?"

[stevietheman]

26. An alternative view is that the Democrats are smart to mostly sit back...

and let the GOP die a death of a thousand cuts. I'm not saying I agree with that approach, but it is my current running theory about the Democratic leadership in Washington.

[toymachines]

28. You're not wrong.

Ignorance and apathy, the blight of our country. And as often as i am cynical, i have to say it does not promote progress. Over optimism is a sign that a person is not informed enough. Sadly, if you know all the facts, and can think critically, then pessimism is going to happen.

[ginnyinWI]

29. Nonsense!

At least 55% of the people in this country believe that Bush's presidency has been a failure. This includes people from all parties. And that fact will carry over to every single Republican out there running in 2006. And they KNOW it! Sorry we're not buying the fear scenario here.

And yet, the Democrats are going to be fighting hard anyway--don't worry about that. We are fundraising like never before, whereas the Repubs are behind in theirs.

[progressoid]

32. You may be correct. Sadly, it may take more bad news for people awaken

A cold winter could be enough to sway a few more percent.

But that is an even more depressing notion; That people are so easily influenced by tertiary issues.

[grrl62]

50. you are correct

tertiary issues win out. approval goes up/down depending on the price at the pump for instance.

[mike_c]

33. yeah, but they disapprove of gays marrying...

...and they'd blindly "support the troops" now matter what evil shit they were up to. They put "faith" before rationality. I heard some interviews on NPR last week with fundy xtians outside some Texas mega-church, in relation to Harriet Miers, I think-- and I seriously believe that they would support Hitler himself, or Pol Pot, if they perceived him as a "good Christian."

[autorank]

34. Look at the polls differently, you make like it.

They can't be aggregated. If you look at Pew, Ipsos, Zogby and the non corporate polls (meaning no Gallup) you find Bush dipping to the mid 30's. This is without ANY media attention over more than a day or two to the tragedies he brings to us daily. This figure is astounding. Even on the approval for Bush polls, Rasmussen, he's at about 59% disapprove. That's bad.

I agree, 80 million people supporting him is a mind blower but Fitz isn't done and when we get a break or Sistani is installed (and asks us to leave, which he says he'll do) then we're rokken.

Also watch favorable/unfavorable ratings, as opposed to job performance. This shows how people feel about him. Ain't too good (since this always is well above the job approval number for everyone ... except Clinton when he was partying).

[Griffy]

35. Disagree in one important way! they don't support those things..

They simple don't believe that those things are happening... and it is easy to see why... perception is reality and if you listen to lintball and watch faux you truly believe Saddam had WMD's, Wilsons a liar, bush is honesty and Cheney is a good man! But the list goes on and on.. the sheeple haven't noticed as the republican owned media bought out and consolidated the MSM. Then they slowly reported less and less news and more and more infotainment and outright propaganda.

The good news is people are wising up to this day by day... things like Katrina and now a possible trial with Cheney on the stand folks are standing to notice the rightwing talking point plan... and the repeating of the same line. Many of these people are not as dumb as we thing, they are mostly too busy and disinterested to pay attention. Many people feel they cant change it anyway so why bother... there are many reasons, but the biggest is the propaganda feeding people lies daily. This too is collapsing, the ratings for conservative radio shows are dropping as AAR and other are on the rise, Ed Schultz is pushing (and I believe will win) to get his show on Armed Forces Radio. This is a SLOWWWW process, its deadly slow but millions of Americans know whats happening and are not fooled. Look at the polls if you want, because bush will never regain those people, the trust is eroding and the truth is leaking out.

SO get out there.. BE the MEDIA.. spread the word.. the message is getting out and we will win '06 and '08 and '10 and.. (assuming we can get this voting thing under control.. since we actually won '00, '02 and '04)

[The Doctor.]

36. There are days when I fantasize about

all of the intelligent people, progressives and real conservatives alike, just up and leaving the country to the devices of the ignorant remainder.

If all the talent, all the intellect, and all those who live in reality just took off for Switzerland or somewhere... it would only be a matter of time before the rest of America just imploded.

Without the empiricists to fight against the policies of corporations running the government, to fight the zealous powermonging by fanatics, to fight just plain-old ignorance... we could all watch from the comfort of another country while the fundamentalists trashed the place then sat waiting for the rapture and the corporations sucked the the rest of the middle class dry.

Then we could come back and rebuild with little resistance.

The only problem is leaving all the nukes behind in their hands.

[mzmolly]

37. This is low as it generally represents the percentage of votes.

I'll take a 60/40 victory at the polls any day.

[libodem]

38. "the very large and ignorant base"

it's so true...i think thats why Hitler exterminated the Intellectuals as well as the mentally retarded....it's why McCarthy went after Hollywood in the 50's...those neocons think differently than liberals...and they are ignorant....it's as if they are fundamentalist in their Bible beliefs...don't believe in science...and they have been taught to believe that the left-wing really wants to destroy marriage and the family, promote homosexuality and teenage sex with a free get-out-of-pregnancy-with-an-abortion-by-planned-parenthood-without-your-parents-knowing-card...it's why they hate public education and want to keep their kids in charter/religious/homeschool situations...so they won't be exposed to truth and facts upon which to base their own decisions....it's why the no child left behind act...takes any freedom from the classroom to discover...answers to standardized tests are all that matter...we have that stupid Brandi Swindle running for city council in our city....she was there protesting around the Terri Shivo feeding-tube removal circus and protesting the removal of the ten commandments from the park and most of the vocal citizens around here see nothing wrong with a republican religious fanatic running for a non-partisan seat...with the backing of the state Republican infrastructure....people are blind....

[Festivito]

39. The constant RW ELEVATOR-MUSIC NEWS on local TV.

The Fairness Doctrine died. The RW loudened.

Now center is somewhere to the right.
Now pundits cater to an assumed audience.
Now bosses promote RWers, shun LWers.

Every day RW talking points go UNREFUTED.

On and on drones the elevator-music news, unrefuted, drilling itself into well-meaning persons, on and on.

[indepat]

40. To support W, you have to support all this and so much more: we're f*cked

as a nation and it couldn't happen to a lovelier bunch of coconuts and assorted wackos. But the piper must be paid and then there will be much wailing, weeping and gnashing of teeth among the some 98% the coconuts and assorted wackos who support W and all this, but who will have been grievously harmed.

[mistertrickster]

42. 39 percent is the way it is NOW. The indictments are going to have their

effect. And the polls show Bush GOING DOWN.

Look, the Democrats haven't been able to capitalize on Bush idiocy because they haven't articulated a real alternative to Bush policies and values.

Prime example is John F. Kerry. Did he call for an immediate withdrawl from Iraq? Did he call for a timetable for withdrawl from Iraq?

No, he said something about an "international response." That's not enough of a difference to really get anybody excited about.

We need a REAL CONTRACT WITH AMERICA like the Repukes used 12 years ago to take over the House. We need a mid-term convention.

In short, we need the Democrats to get their shit together and do something.

[druidity33]

43. yes and more...

i have read this thread through and do think the OP could be more constructive...
we should all agree to some tactics...

i'll refer you to this thread which expresses a good level of outrage...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5226183#5226479

and what i said as a partial positive action to take...

 target their moral stance..

how can these people still support the * regime? HIT EM LOW AND HARD! I agree... we should use their language against them...

(side note: i'm a druid, not "christian")

try Matthew 7- the whole darn thing is relevant...
Matthew 5- sermon on the mount is perfect...

try to point out to his core base how he's betrayed their "religious ideals" and we'll have him down from both sides. We know how powerful dissent among the ranks is... turn it against them!

Peace Please!

[bloom]

44. I think you have to wonder

considering Republicans are calling into Cspan and requesting there be a "Support Republicans" phone number instead of a "Support Bush" phone number.

On the other hand - I expect that Bush* still has most of the FOX watchers.

[deadparrot]

47. I'm fully of the opinion that a third of this country

would stand by Bush if he performed an abortion on live TV. They worship him. He can do no wrong (unless he's too liberal :eyes:). 39% isn't bad, but I think we can get it to drop about five more points before it's all said and done.

[OneBlueSky]

49. bottom line: since BushCo STILL owns the voting machines . . .

and controls the voting procedures, and since Republican corporations will STILL be tabulating the vote counts, the 2006 (and 2008) elections will turn out EXACTLY as BushCo wishes them to . . . and with a Republican Congress (supported by many Democrats) having absolutely no compelling incentive to change the status quo, chances of fair and honest elections remain slim and none for the foreseeable future . . .

[loudsue]

66. THANK YOU!! That's what some of us have been SCREAMING for 5 years.

There are SO many self-proclaimed "liberals" who mock and criticize the right wingers for being so ignorant, and refusing to pay attention to the writing on the wall.

And yet, every time....EVERY SINGLE TIME....the election fraud issue is brought up, some of these same self-proclaimed "liberals" will JUMP ALL OVER the people who KNOW and have RESEARCHED the election fraud. All we see, day in and day out, are posts about "vote for this (or that) candidate", and "we'll win back the congress in 2006", and "we'll have a Dem in 2008".

If we had a vote that would count, WE WOULDN'T BE IN IRAQ, based on lies and America's first major WAR OF AGGRESSION!

People that are looking to the Dems to save us, don't recognize that the fraudulent voting machines put a LOT of those Dems in Congress, and have PREVENTED us from voting-in more liberal replacements, IN THE PRIMARY ELECTIONS!

People keep saying "The Dems need to do this (or that)" but they don't see the FACTS in front of their faces! The majority of "elected" Dems SUPPORT, and are SUPPORTED BY, the same corporations that run the government, the media, and the voting machines.

The right wing doesn't have a monopoly on stupid.

The voting machine issue is the KEY to every single issue that plagues this country today. Until THAT issue is addressed and taken care of, NOTHING will change for the better. It requires a revolution at this point. Millions protest the Iraq war, but the REAL PROBLEM that started the Iraq war STARTS at the voting machine programming issue, and election gerrymandering. Those same millions will believe we were lied into a war, but REFUSE to believe we were lied to by FOUR COMPANIES who OWN the voting machines, and who ALL SUPPORT President bush and the republican/democrat/corporatist agenda.

It's going to take two more gerrymandered elections, at LEAST, before EVEN THE LIBERALS get behind the problems of elections, strongly enough to protest by the millions.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Montauk6]

52. What can possibly make them lose faith? Well, for starters...

He renounces Jesus and comes out. This would cover the Jeezoid wing.

Next, he'd have to nationalize the petroleum industry as an emergency matter and call for emergency tax hikes that would far surpass any rollback levels. This would cover "The Base."

With the impending revenue, he would then have to announce an Executive Order reinstating conscription and declare preventative war on Venezuela.

Again, for starters.

[Zynx]

53. You have no sense of history. 40% vote for a major party regardless

of the situation. That's just how it is. The shift from 50% to 40% hurts them badly at the margins and particularly bad in moderate states where there are more voters in flux. This is great news.

[Ian_rd]

67. I realize the historical record of approval polls, but ...

... past administrations were not traitors, liars, thieves, racketeers, pillagers, and second-degree murderers all at the same time.

[Toots]

54. It is a Cult with Cult mentality

The only way is by cult intervention. Because the Republican Party has such a (undeserved IMO) reputation it is very hard to hear it being described as a cult but that is exactly what it has become. Moonie has great influence in the Republican party and his methods are apparent. Cult followers are immune from outsider opinion because their beliefs are constantly reenforced (Propaganda) through Public Airwaves, MSM, and without an equal voice we have no chance. Doing away with the Fairness Doctrine was a stroke of brillience on the GOP's part. It has paid great dividends for them. Democrats obviously are not nearly as smart as they think they are or they would not be in this situation. Our main problem is that we see things with Logic that applies to bettering people's lives. We can not fatham how anyone could think differntly so are unprepared to fight their attacks. It is hard to comprehend how an American would want to cut school lunch programs so the wealthy can have a large tax cut. It is hard for me to imagine anyone that insensitive but that is what we are up against. Our Logic is being put to the test.

[Darranar]

55. No, they approve of stopping gay couples from marrying

and moving to restrict a women's control of her body.

[Silverhair]

56. Most voters are against gay marriage too.

Here in Texas, on Nov 8, there will be an election that has Prop 2, an anti-gay marriage and anti-civil unions, on the ballot. The Repubs have come out heavily identifying themselves with that amendment, which is expect to pass overwhelmingly.

So tell me how the Repubs being against gay marriage helps Democrats.

[Darranar]

59. My post was about reasons Republicans vote Republican

and did not indicate in any way that "Repubs being against gay marriage helps Democrats."

[Silverhair]

62. OK. Thanks. NT

[ComerPerro]

57. Exactly. Right on. You nailed it

And, fraud or not, the fact remains that enough people actually supported this asshat to make the fraud seem legitimate.

[Silverhair]

58. I agree.

Not only that, but the Repub election advertising machine is idling right now. When they get that think cranked up and going, they can pull in enough to win. We are in serious trouble.

[Cats Against Frist]

63. Well, if it makes you feel better

I think that about 40 percent of Americans would vote Democratic, no matter what. I've often thought the die-harders of each party are at about 39 percent. Even with the crowing of the people on DU, the greens, naderites, etc. -- they will still vote Dem, when the time comes, because the alternative is so horrible.

The good part of this is that the moderates, the voters in the middle, HAVE been stripped away. There is always some support for the President, too, no matter who he is. I think these numbers are good, but, of course, I'd like to see them lower.

[onenote]

70. having trouble with the math and the history

39 percent doesn't win an election (unless the other side has only 38 percent). So I'm not sure why 39 percent approval of bush isn't a very good thing. WOuld I like it to be lower? Sure. But if it stays at 39 percent, the repubs are in trouble in 2006 and 2008.

Look at the history: Bill Clinton's lowest approval rating was around 43 percent in the spring/summer of 1993. It climbed a little after that, but probably was still below 50 percent in Nov 1994.
In the 1994 Congressional elections, the repubs clobbered the Democrats, winning majority control of the House for the first time in years.

So both math and history suggest that 39 percent rating for the pres translates into trouble in the off year elections.

onenote