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When Hacks Attack! or Meet Josh Marshall!

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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:19 PM
Original message
When Hacks Attack! or Meet Josh Marshall!
I'm writing from a train zipping down the Northeast Corridor at the moment. But I just saw the AP story reporting the stunning news that HowardDean has fired Joe Trippi as his campaign manager and replaced him with long-long-long-time Gore insider Roy Neel.
Long-time, okay, but long-long-long? You think Marshall is trying to imply something? Cute.

This has to be one of the most bizarre turns of events I've seen in Dem politics in a very long time.
"Bizarre"? What was it when Kerry dumped two campaign managers, double bizzare? Super-duper-duper weird? But "bizzare" and "weird" used to describe a Dem candidate is a style of writing you would expect from a RNC blastfax, right?

In the context of Dean's campaign, Trippi is certainly not just a campaign manager. He was at least one of the chief architects of this path-breaking campaign model that we've been hearing so much about and talking so much about for months.
Yes, those people who say we can further democratize our democracy using the internet are loons, I tell you! Loons!

But the appointment of Neel is even weirder than the canning of Trippi.
Yeah, if you thought Josh was freaked out about Dean dropping Trippi, just wait until he gets to the really super-duper-freaky thing Dean did!

I'm no purist in political matters, but isn't Neel a Washington lobbyist? An insiders' insider? I don't think that makes him a bad guy. But isn't it a little out of tune with the campaign Dean's been running?
Yes, Josh is no purist, except when it comes down to who can be part of that precious select few, the Electable Democrat(s).

Something very weird happened here.
I'm not really up on my whore-ese, but doesn't the repeated use of the word "weird" in this context constitute a political hit job?

All I can figure is that this all happened with no warning whatsoever. Gore is now in the mix. And in need of someone immediately they went to Neel. Is the next DC Meet-Up at The Monocle?

Yes, Josh, Dean is Gore's monster. Al, you are a weird, bizarre person that probably hangs out at some weird, bizarre place called The Monocle with that weird, bizarre Dean and some long-long-long time weirdo named Neel or something.
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Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. ROTFLMAO!
Someone in my office won't even venture an original thought unless he checks in with Josh's blog first.

Ha! I appreciate this more than you could know! :evilgrin:
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. You missed the whole point of his post
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 09:25 PM by lancdem
the irony of the consummate insider, Neel, running the campaign of a man who's portrayed himself as an outsider. Pretty obvious to me. So Marshall writes a post you take issue with, and now he's a "hack"? What about all the times he defended Dean (and there have been many)? Was he a hack then?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Much as I love Josh......he was a "Clark leaner." OTOH, Josh is trying to
make his career. So, we always need to read him with some skepticism in our back pockets. His report does sound like what we've heard about Gore in 1999. And, frankly the Gore trashing has become something grisley.

Like when the Heathers decide they are going to bloody the "shy girl" by throwing her into a wall and asking all the school to come look as they bash her to death. :-( Maybe Josh is just tired.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yeah? Well he's writing Clark's on "life support"
As a Clarkie, I'm not finding any great comfort reading Josh.

Still like him though, don't have to agree with everything he says.
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes, I see
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 09:34 PM by hey2370
Strange that he has to travel the "weird" and "bizarre" trail to make the point that this latest development is ironic.

Whoops! I mean, "bizarre" and "weird" that he had to use that rhetoric.
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree
I'm a Dean supporter, but from reading TPM Marshall strikes me as an honest and, most importantly, up front guy. I don't think he'd do something like use the word "weird" over and over again to slyly create some sort of impression in the reader's mind. Give him - and his readers - some credit. If he wanted to say something, good or bad, he'd just come out and say it.

The fact is this change IS weird, and it's weird for exactly the reasons Marshall gives. No need to read into it beyond that.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Critical of Dean? Hack.
or something.

Most journalists couldn't carry Marshall's jock.
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Why are you trying to hold Josh's jock, William?
C'mon, the guy is not even varsity.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I call this varsity
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Published is varsity?
He didn't even work in "desperate".

Hello? Hit-piece? On Dean? "Weird" is so-so, doesn't make it.

"Weirdly desperate and bizzarely sweaty" is what he needed to write to make the varsity. This stuff writes itself.

Marshall? Sorry, son, you're cut. You are just going through the motions out there.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You didn't even read it, did you.
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I read EVERYTHING
I am a reading fiend.

I even read your folderol.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. See? Now you've gotten Pitt riled...
And he's got this new high-profile job and all..

:smoke:
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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Josh Marshall...
...for those who have read him with any consistency and an objectivity removed from the hysteria of allegiance to any one candidate, is unique for being truly fair and balanced and that, for him, is far more than just a pitiful slogan.

He is one of the brightest, educated, and insightful political bloggers in the political arena today not to mention an historian by PhD background.

Attempts to trash him with such a grossly over-reaching critique which intentionally ignores the point of Mr. Marshall's commentary betrays that an obviously sensitive nerve has been struck by Mr. Marshall.

We will probably have to suffer a lot more of this here at DU during the final and inevitable deconstruction of the Dean candidacy over the next two weeks. It's never Doctor Dean's fault, it's always the fault of the (fill in the blank: media, other candidates, people who don't "get it," etc.... ad nauseam).
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Did you read Marshall's latest?
Defend that without attacking Dean. Marshall just did a hit on a Dem candidate, using the guide book of Newt Gingrich. And you want to cut him slack.

I don't care if it's Lieberman, what he wrote is lame and less than what we should expect from a man of his education and training.
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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yes...
... Coincidentally, I read it within about fifteen minutes of his originally posting it.

I thought it to be exactly the type of information evident of the usual politically mature insight for which his readers contributed to send him to New Hampshire in the first place.

For those who can step back from the flames of the rapidly burning Dean candidacy - flames for which the candidate himself is responsible - the point of Mr. Marshall's' post was painfully obvious. It was that the "little people's candidate," the man who prides - and has sold himself - as being the Washington "outsider" with a solidly "liberal" foundation (how untrue we all really know that last one to be), here he is hiring a man with a pedigree which is notoriously the opposite of Doctor Dean's stated philosophies and presumed operating dynamics.

Does the word "hypocrite" come to mind, per chance?

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Abigail147 Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Let's see now.
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 10:36 PM by Abigail147
Because Marshall recently got a PhD, he is not open to criticism, yes? Gee I've been reading him for a long time, and I do not feel stupid saying I've disagreed with him at times. For instance, he was okay with the Iraq War, and I was not. Marshall has not been giving exactly balanced coverage to Dean, and he is friend of Kaus and you know that makes him a fool. Whoops, did we hit an obviously sensitive nerve? How condescending and arrogant of us.
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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks for making my point....
... your two particular concerns relative to Josh Marshall are not only valid - but ones which I happen to share. Although, they are about the only two matters specific to Marshall over the years which have caused me discomfort.

However unlike your own, the critical post which began this thread not only fails at validity, but also is woefully ignorant (and impotent, I might add) in even beginning to challenge the implied point of Marshall's original blog to which I referred in one word: hypocrisy.

Or maybe we can just chalk it up to the desperation of a rapidly failing candidacy. A candidacy, where not only the candidate but even more so his support base as especially found here at DU, is certainly not lacking in the "arrogance" and "condescension" departments. Qualities to which we can add: bitterness, projection, and blaming just about everyone and everything else - except the candidate, himself.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nah
The guy's great. I think it's good Dean did this for the sake of his campaign, but you guys need to take the heat a little better than this. It is weird, it is bizarre, and it's political theater. That's what Josh Marshall writes about.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. LOL, Josh Marshall is great... read him everyday
So someones a hack because they're nailing Dean on the TRUTH?
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hey2370 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You forgot the trademark
Truth(tm)
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. TPM speaks "whore-ese"? Translation: Whore = someone who criticizes my guy
Get off the Big Brother Newspeak kick, Hey2370. It is not "whorish" to criticize a Democrat. Marshall has never held back when criticizing Bush and I sure as hell don't want him to let off criticizing Democrats either. It's called being fair, which TPM is in spades.

To call Josh Marshall a whore is about as dumb a thing as a smart Democrat can do. If you can't handle critiques of your candidate's political operations without getting all whiny (albeit rather well written whining) and calling your critics dirty names, then maybe politics just ain't your bag.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. JMM doesn't need me to defend him
but I will say that post is not an attack. Even the most ardent supporters of Dean think that an insider like Neel is an odd addition to the campaign.

As I pointed out on a Clark thread today--and I'm a Clark supporter--we have to admit that our candidates fuck up sometimes or make strange moves. And then we can move on.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
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