You know what sucks about the whole Plame case?

[Roland99]

It's way too complicated for the average American.

Clinton's lie about a b-j was simple and it was about sex and captured the minds of the unwashed masses.

The Plame case is about someone telling someone else about a CIA agent who was previously undercover but they didn't know that and later found out and went around covering up what they knew in the first place.

That just blows the mind of the average boob-tuber.

[grannylib]

1. Yeah, you know if there are STILL 38% or whatever who DO approve

of the imbecile, that's still an awful lot of really really stupid fuckers. And God help us, they're breeding.

[Frustratedlady]

20. You said.......

"And God help us, they're breeding."

That could be because they aren't sitting in front of their computers 24/7 waiting for the end of Bushco! :P

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Watergate was complicated, too.

And we saw how well that turned out for Nixon.

[slybacon9]

4. watergate was even moooore complicated than both.

if you ask me.

[Roland99]

5. Well, Nixon was directly linked to the break-in.

And, back then, the American public didn't have the attention span of a toddler. People want their fast-edit CSI/music video/video game and their 30-second soundbite before they go back to their cookie-cutter suburban home life.

[slybacon9]

3. NO. Don't start falling for that...

It's not complicated.

It's treason.

Treason for the sake of war profiteering.


And it's worse than lying about any blow job.

[Roland99]

9. I'll eat my shoes if any of the indictments are for treason.

They're going to be for perjury/obstruction of justice. It's all about the cover-up, not the act.


And the GOP/RNC spin machine will catapault with the speed and ferocity of the well-oiled machine that it is.

We need the Dems to pull the gloves off and go nuclear on these bastards or 2006 will be a repeat of 2002.

[Clark2008]

23. Correct..

I would add, though: they outed a CIA agent, which is treason. And the treason was committed so Bush's friends could make money "rebuilding" Iraq.

That's pretty simple. People already get Halliburton.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. A covert CIA operation was blown to punish Wilson for not playing by their

rules. It ain't that complicated. Unfathomably sick and twisted, but just not that complicated.

[bluestateguy]

7. Not as complicated as Whitewater

I still can't figure out what that whole thing was about after 10 years, and I have a post-graduate degree.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. Let me explain

It was a sham. That's why you can't make sense out of it.

There was no there there.

You have to be insane - like Ken Starr and Jesse Helms and Richard Mellon Scaife - to understand it.

Feel better?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. Exactly

This is reminiscent of the Iran-Contra scandal, which just slid off the screen because the great unwashed were too dim to be able to track the wrongdoing.

And so, Poppy Bush stepped in with his Christmas Eve pardons and it was as if it never existed.

I seriously doubt that this will happen if indictments are handed down in the Plame matter.

Lord, I hope it doesn't.

[unblock]

11. bzzt. sorry, thanks for playing.

the average american has seen WAY too many spy movies not to understand blowing the cover of a secret agent.

the banana republicans may spin it as irrelevant, inconsequential, patriotic, or political, but they can NOT portray it as complicated.

[Roland99]

12. If Cheney isn't indicted, this becomes a non-story by Veterans' Day.

No one (outside of us political junkies and our right-wing counterparts) know who Rove and Libby are, much less Hadley.

[lancdem]

14. Senior WH officials being indicted

is something Americans will understand.

[Roland99]

15. "senior White House officials" means bupkis if their names aren't known.

Take a step back from your active participation in politics and put yourself in the shoes of joe/jane doe on the street working their 9-5 and helping their kids with their homework and picking up the latest rental from Blockbuster and getting home in time to meet the pizza guy.

[unblock]

18. people still understand criminals/traitors "working in the white house".

even if the name is unknown.

they still blame the administration for hiring them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Oh stop it

These DU elitist positions about the everyday "Joe/Jane" are absolutely fucking ridiculous, as if you're some political genius and everyone else is sitting on a stump watching their fucking shoes. Gimme a break. This is an invented issue you're tossing around, and it depends on all sorts of despicable assumptions.

I think the we Americans are and have always been much more alert about what's going on than your "joe/jane" caricature gives us (not "them," but US) credit for. Where you find your outrageous pretention I cannot imagine.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. Yeah

Everyone's stupid. I know. Heard it all before. The 40% who continue to support couldn't have ideological reasons for doing so. No, they're just dupes of the Man. Right. Lucky how you wiggled out of that kinda thoughtless dupery, I guess.

Your position is elitist and self-gratifying, but that's about it. It teaches us nothing about anything.

[Roland99]

33. How many people in America read places like this? Hmm???

VERY FEW.


We are political junkies. Most people in America are NOT.


That's all I'm saying.


Most people don't know the seriousness of what was going on and, to be honest, most don't care.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. And all I'm saying is that one need not read this site

or even be a "political junkie" to have a sense of events, and to assume that one must is a grave mistake grounded in elitist, self-gratifying assumptions.

[Roland99]

35. So, you accuse of me of being "elitist" by mentioning DU as one site?

You need to get your head on straight and climb down from your high horse. The lack of air up there is affecting your ability to think.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. I don't accuse YOU of anything

You're promoting an elitist position, but that doesn't say anything about YOU. I'm interrogating the position. You, on the other hand, seem to want to make this all about ME (which is why you've already had a message deleted). The "high horse" bit is as laughable as it is nonsensical, by the way.

[xray s]

13. I think Americans will care about murder

If someone who was a valuable asset that could help us find people selling WMD to terrorists was murdered because Plames and Brewster's cover was blown, then Americans will follow this story very closely.

[emulatorloo]

16. They outed a CIA agent to cover their lies about Saddam getting Nukes

How complicated is that?

[Stinky The Clown]

17. 'Treason' and 'Murder' have the same number of syllables as 'Blowjob'

Easy for even the moranest of morans to understand.

[skipos]

19. I think you are right. Keep in mind how many people thought Saddam

caused 9-11 even as late as a year ago.

[magnolia]

21. Let's not forget....

...Clinton's approval ratings throughout the impeachment were in the 70's. The people understood the BJ and their biggest dilemna was explaining it to their kids. There was no other threat. Everything in general was going great...peace...prosperity...rainbows and lollipops.

In this case with Bush...everything is basically going wrong for him and even without any indictments yet his approval has hit 39%. The fact that this is very confusing to those who haven't stayed on top of it makes it worse. They don't know the threat or the damage. Not knowing is very frightening, especially since everything else looks so bad. I have to give credit to the MSM and particularily to Matthews for repeating so often: "This is really about lying about the war." The freeper types will defend Bush to the death. But the fairly reasonable right-wing will to consider: "What if the war is wrong." Once they allow that thought...the pieces will fit.

At the very, very least...Bush promised to restore dignity to the WH. That much they can understand and when/if indictments come out, even the freepers will have to sink into serious denial to justify this.

I hope this is so big that it will make Tom Delay's crime look like a parking ticket.

[magnolia]

22. Let's not forget...........

...Clinton's approval ratings throughout the impeachment were in the 70's. The people understood the BJ and their biggest dilemna was explaining it to their kids. There was no other threat. Everything in general was going great...peace...prosperity...rainbows and lollipops.

In this case with Bush...everything is basically going wrong for him and even without any indictments yet his approval has hit 39%. The fact that this is very confusing to those who haven't stayed on top of it makes it worse. They don't know the threat or the damage. Not knowing is very frightening, especially since everything else looks so bad. I have to give credit to the MSM and particularily to Matthews for repeating so often: "This is really about lying about the war." The freeper types will defend Bush to the death. But the fairly reasonable right-wing will to consider: "What if the war is wrong." Once they allow that thought...the pieces will fit.

At the very, very least...Bush promised to restore dignity to the WH. That much they can understand and when/if indictments come out, even the freepers will have to sink into serious denial to justify this.

I hope this is so big that it will make Tom Delay's crime look like a parking ticket.



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[Roland99]

31. Actually, Clinton was in the 60s, not the 70s. But yeah, other things...

affect peoples' thinking. High gas prices, poor FEMA performance after hurricanes, stagnant wages, etc.

[HootieMcBoob]

24. Then just make it simple...

The Bush administration exposed a CIA undercover agent and the front company she worked for (who's job was tracking the proliferation of wmd) during a time of war.

This exposure destroyed years of work and exposed them all to great danger and caused serious damage to U.S. national security.

The Bush administration did this in order to punish someone who had exposed their lies for starting the war in Iraq and to send an intimidating message to anyone else who might stand up to their lies.

You might also add that had this been done during WW2 that the person or persons who had exposed this agent/company could very well face execution.

[loyalsister]

40. Exactly

Clinton's lie is so easy to believe because it's a lie they can relate to. If not having had direct experience, anyone can imagine telling, being tempted to tell, or advising a friend on what to do in the situation Clinton was in.
Yet, I have to wonder if it is possible that when people realize that this is punishible by execution, people find it difficult to believe it possible that a person would be stupid enough to commit such a crime for revenge.
Goerbels "law" extended- the bigger the lie, the easier it is to get people to believe it.
People just may not be able to take this as far as it goes because of the extremity. It may just be too difficult to imagine.

[leesa]

25. Treason. It's easy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Nonsense

Everybody knows exactly what it means to blow an undercover operator's cover, and everyone understands revenge. The problem is in the stupid way you're phrasing it.

Bottom line: These bozos were out for revenge, so they blew an undercover CIA operative's identity in the newspapers.

That's not hard to understand at all.

[Roland99]

30. But the charges aren't likely to fit that "crime"

We're probably looking at perjury/obstruction. Maybe improper handling of classified information.

[Orangepeel]

38. Clinton wasn't impeached for getting a blowjob --

well, yes he was, but not officially. Officially, he was impeached for lying about getting a blow job.

Martha Stewart didn't go to jail for using insider information. She was convicted of lying about it.

I don't know what will happen with this leak case. But, I don't understand why it would be hard for people to understand.

[rniel]

28. Simplify it for them

Traitor in the white house. Traitor in the white house.

[Orangepeel]

37. it doesn't have to be complicated

The White House revealed that she was an American spy in order to get revenge on her husband, thus ruining her career and putting the lives of other spys and America's national security in danger.

Why wouldn't Tom Clancy reading, James Bond watching Americans get that?

[Bridget Burke]

39. CBS News made it very clear.

Wilson was considered an obstruction to the invasion of Iraq. So the White House decided to "get him" through his wife.

Next story: The 2000th American dies in Iraq.

Not all that complicated.

[truthisfreedom]

41. if the word "treason" slips into the mix, Americans will understand.

as it is, it doesn't matter if America understands. some things are very complex, like the tax code, but people are still required to make the deadline. so they leave it up to professionals.

[Jim__]

42. The White House deliberately undermined national security ...

... for political gain.

It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AX10]

44. :wtf:?

Care to elaborate?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thoughtanarchist]

47. Is that some kind of legalese?

Edit: grammer

You seem to imply that no crime is committed unless the criminal is charged with the crime.


Personally I find that among the most heinous of crimes that can be committed is to wage war on false pretenses, a crime for which there is rarely a charge, court, or conviction.

I seem to recall there was a german politician who was guilty of such actions about 65 yrs ago... Now it seems to have happened again.

[ChiciB1]

45. Waiting For What Will Come... Has Ominous Overtones To Me!

And we're all just eating ourselves!!

I've tried NOT to hold my breath, but I must admit I had SOME hope! But HOPE has been dashed too many times in the past, so maybe it's like being in an "abusive relationship" where you just keep coming back for more!

The only thing I really know is that what has gone on since THESE PEOPLE got into the WH, MOST American people are the REAL Losers!!!