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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:41 PM
Original message
In 1974 when Nixon resigned I though we finally ended the corruption
Yet 30 years on, I realize we never eradicated it, we became complacent. We let Newt Grinchging bury us in 1994, and assumed in 2000 the public would see right through that stupid twit and keep sanity in the People's House. The greatest President in my lifetime was embarrassed by sex. The dumbest President in my lifetime will be embarrassed by corruption.

Now they have stained our history again, and the grand experiment in Conjobatisim will be over in a year. The Emperor with no clothes will sit till the dawn rises in 2008, and maybe before I die, we'll get it right.

But I think that the damage the Cons have caused will not be rinsed off the fabric of our being for decades.

I promised my daughter tonight, because we forgot our promises of 1974, we won't get fooled again. I hope we can keep our promise this time.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. i also thought we'd won the fight
and know sadly that our apathy led us to this point. lesson learned is that without our critical vigilance, the opportunity exists for it to happen all over again. our nation has accumulated some dreadful karma
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Perhaps it is because we thought we had won the fight
that we thought it would never happen again. I do not think it is so much apathy as it was we couldn't think it could ever happen again. But we just pruned the bush (no pun intended) in 1974. In the interim the bush assumed new growth while we were not looking. I remember Watergate and Nixon and this is far worse.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. The health of a Democracy is dependent on the continued participation
of its citizens.

I've come to see it as a constant reprieve.

I should probably add that I don't believe we got to the bottom of Watergate. In fact, I think we still are getting to the bottom of it.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, I think you're right
All of the dark corners of Watergate have never been seen in 'full light' (yet).
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've discovered that it's a cycle.
After Grant, the American people went back to the democrats. Then, they started trusting Republicans again with Coolidge and Hoover until the stock market bottomed out.

Then we went back to the Democrats, who had to fix everything.

Then, America began trusting Republicans again, and Nixon and Ford's corruption came about.

Americans came back to the Republicans again in the 1990s.

It'll be the same thing. We'll go to the Dems for a while until people start believing Republican lies again, and then we'll have another couple of years before the corruption is rampant.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Actually, our party let them slip through.
We had 'em on the ropes...and they regrouped and grew bigger through the churches and corporate lobbyists like Abramoff, etc.
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. "The Shadow Always Takes on a New Shape..."
...but, alas, evil keeps on coming...Sauron keeps getting beaten, but always ge returns...*sigh*. Is there a "ruling ring" for us, that we can toss into our own Mt Doom and destroy these guys forever? Probably not...eternal vigilance is the price of liberty and all that...
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sandrakae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. Apparently that is when class started.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. Carter was sabotaged so Raygunz could get in.
The repug agents were ever active after Nixon and like Japanese beetles looked and looked until they found a way in.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Jimmy Carter had the wrong people surrounding him
so the Corrupt Conservative Propagandists took advantage of his mistakes. Thinking back, I wonder if his attempt to save the Iranian hostages was sabotaged by forces darker than we'll ever know?

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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. What's worse...
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 12:14 AM by longship
Unless stated otherwise, positions are during the Nixon administration.

Rumsfeld -- Director of Office of Economic Opportunity. Counsellor to President Nixon. Director of Economic Stabilization Program. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-1974. Gerald Ford Chief of Staff. Gerald Ford Defense Sec'y.

Dick Cheney -- Rumsfeld's special assistant at OEO. White House staffer. Assistant director of Cost of Living Council. Leaves Nixon WH in 1973. Assistant to President Gerald Ford. Ford WH Chief of Staff.

Paul Wolfowitz -- Arms Control and Disarmament Agency. Closely associated with Sen. Scoop Jackson.

Colin Powell -- Fellowship at White House, 1972. Assists Frank Carlucci at Office of Management and Budget.

Karl Rove -- Worked on Nixon campaign where he was mentored by Donald Segretti, Nixon dirty trickster who was jailed during Watergate affair. Infiltrated Democratic organizations of behalf of Nixon's 1972 campaign. Came to the attention of George H.W. Bush, then RNC chairman.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Same dirty faces, same dirty lies, and we turned away
while they returned to finish the job.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great post DainBramaged..
And only a few more until you hit 1000 !! Keep on posting! :toast:
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. I was disappointed that the coffin wasn't nailed shut in 1974.
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 12:37 AM by Zen Democrat
The pardon of Richard Nixon ... the Jerry Ford "our long national nightmare is over" ... Jaworski punted and went home ...

I thought that the aftermath was to "forgive and forget" and that was a mistake.

I was shocked in 1976 that the election was even close! It was disgusted that that many people could still vote Republican. And four short years later, The Reagan Revolution with the press fawning over him for 8 years.

Yep, we should have nailed that coffin shut 30 years ago.
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Mechatanketra Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. I doubt we'll get it right this time either.
America "became complacent" almost instantaneously after Nixon resigned; one should know the people were doomed to be fooled again, when Ford wasn't impeached (if not drawn and quartered) for pardoning the man who appointed him, on the presumption that he'd clearly "bought in" to the conspiracy.

The basic problem is this: outright criminality in the White House is essentially an Outside Context Problem for Joe Sixpack. America has no immuno-response to politicians who are prepared to defy the law and use the powers of their office to protect themselves, because we're raised on a "heroic script immunity" image of American history that just assumes The System Works, and for that matter, that there is a system to work.

You can see this symptom at work among Democratic officials: time and time again, Republicans get caught doing something unconscionably grotesque, and the Dems make statements "calling on" them to make things right. Fine: and when the GOP says "No", what do you do? You'd think by now, the pattern would have sunk in, and Dems would just skip to pointing out that the GOP never does the right thing by itself, because they're not actually out to serve citizens. But apparently, the Democratic politicians themselves can't bring themselves to swallow that their opposition -- the people they themselves, by definition, are ostensibly trying to put out of a job -- just aren't sincerely trying to do that job; they can't cross the line in their minds between the GOP being bad at governing and the GOP just being bad. So always, always with the benefit of the doubt ... until it kills us.
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. nixon
and when nixon the thief, criminal, liar, etc. died he got a royal presidential funeral at great cost to the taxpayers.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I think it's more a case of the pot won't call the kettle black.
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 01:16 AM by Carolab
The Democratic party has, truly, become "Republican lite"--or even, I think, just merged with the other side, so that it's the beast with two heads.

All of these politicos have been bought out by the corporate world.
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Mechatanketra Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Possible. But then, it's recursive.
Just as Democratic officials seem unwilling to actually face the elephant in the room (that the G.O.P. is an M-O-B), so does it seem that Democratic voters don't want to face the donkey standing next to it, so to speak.

The Republican Question (what to do about a party in power who's only there for the power, and not to do their jobs) is just too big for almost anyone to really pose a solution for, yet too horrible to really tolerate comfortably. So, just like that, it doesn't exist: because we can't deal with it, we won't admit it's there. In the same way, the Democratic Question (what to do about an opposition party that apparently isn't actually bothered by the previous situation, except that it's not them in power) is also both too monumental for any one person to overcome (as is the question of how to team up enough people to deal with it), and too unpleasant to just live with. So, of course, it simply isn't true, because it can't be ...
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nookiemonster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Absolutely!
It's a corporate phenomenon. Follow the money.

Political parties are almost a moot issue anymore.

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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. Forgot about Reagan! He was the most corrupt since Nixon. Now he's
in second place. * is making him look like the saint the repubs paint him as.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. One hesitates to say, "Think of the Children"
But for God's sake.

I thought when I was kid and saw Nixon go down like a wounded rhinocerous that we'd once and for all settled the issue. Now I have a daughter who is about the same age as I was back in 1973, and I've got to say that for the sake of the next generation, we've got to bring about genuine campaign reforms in this country. Right now, we have a government that is bought and paid for by the highest bidder -- a recent poll showed that only six percent of Americans believe that their elected officials are acting in the best interest of the public.

Did I say, "For the children?" How's about we think about the grandparents? I have an uncle who's a veteran of World War II. Back in the day, he was a seaman in the South Pacific when his ship was (literally) blown out of the water by a kamikazee. He stayed afloat for hours, keeping alive one of the ship's officers, even though he was badly burned in the attack. When the Navy offered to send him home because of his wounds, he did something extraordinary.

He refused.

My uncle thought it wasn't right for him to be going home while there was still a war to be won. So as soon as he had mended, he put back to sea and didn't come until after VJ-Day.

Greatest Generation? Damned straight.

The point is, my uncle and his comrades didn't pay the price in blood and shattered dreams so that we can live under the type of government we have today. They deserve something better. We deserve something better.

And...yes. The children deserve something better.

Night all.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Carry it further. Why did the XXth Maine fight to hold
Little Round top? Why did the Marines stand at Belleau Wood? Why did the 101st Airborne hold off the Panzers at Bastogne? It was to create a better nation and a better world. And we end up with these vile treasonous criminals trailing our National flag in the slime which is their natural habitat!!
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. I was in...
...high school during Dick Nixon. I agree with your post. However, I think what Nixon did pales in comparison to what Bush has done.

-Paige
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. Really?
In 1974 all I seen was the powers that where in charge set up a new way to pull the same garbage using new rules. It was called Planed Action Committees. Great idea until they put in the clause that corperations could put money into a canidate in someone elses name, ie.. the employees. I was against the PAC after reading the loop holes in it and the way it made lobyists the major driving force into how things were done for/to the country. Today your seeing the resualts that PAC groups wanted.

Regan did steal the election from Carter. He made a deal with the hostage takers and gave them weapons for hostages. They also made an agreement to wait until after Reagan took the oath of office before releasing the Iran hostages. It was under Reagan that the republican lie machine really got good at distraction and lies. Remember Gernada? Or the Contras? Or how the 1984 Reagan election spin doctors and Willy Horton?

The only thing that stopped daddy Bush's re-election was 3 little words, No new taxes. But both Reagan and dady Bush were the start of GW's thinking he was appointed by god and everything with ordained that he did.

I don't blame Reagan Bush and Bush for what they done, We the People wanted to believe in something and thats our fault that we played right into their hands. We are to blame for the Dems being weak and powerless when we ignore facts and go along with what sounds good. We the People are the ones that let groups like the swift lier boaters get away with their garbage.

We bought into lies and wonder why we got burned. We listened to government policies that told us it was welfare and laziness that caused the problemds of the country. We turned our backs on unions and gave up holding employers responsilble for selling out our jobs. We believed everything Reagan said as truth because we wanted to believe he was honest.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. so sis i....but i've been awake now for the past 5 years
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adwon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
25. ?
Corruption, peddling influence, call it what you will, is a fact of politics. The goal isn't to eradicate it (which isn't possible), just to reduce it to tolerable levels.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. In my lifetime the only ones who get caught are Republicans
So in my opinion, either the Corrupt Conservative Propagandists are stupid, or that little spirit still exists opening doors of opportunity for us to close these criminal operations down.

Why is it that the Republicans get caught with porn pictures of children on their hard drives, or DUI, or divorcing their wives for a young "campaign worker", or stupid crap like stealing pension money by buying rare coins and then having them disappear, or stealing from Native Americans, and on and on and on.

It isn't a fact in politics, but it is a factor of inbred greed in the Corrupt Conservative mindset. EVERY Liberal I know has a basic tenet in their lives-help others. If they get out of the hole or get ahead, great, movies at Blockbuster this week.

But Conservatives, with their cigars and projectile bellies and get out of my way step on your face attitude, Stepford wives hairdos and oblivious cell phone talking discourteous and rude attitude who turn red when you ask them "you MUST be a Republican" when they act stupid in public and don't respond but curse you out, these are inbred with corruption, and they are raising their kids in their image. The college Republicans are a perfect example, they support the troops right to die for them, just like all Corrupt Conservatives do.

Morning rant is over. In a nutshell, we ain't like them, never will be, and I'll take a voluntary dirt nap if I ever become like them.
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adwon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Ever hear of Jim Wright?
The scandal that lost him the Speakership went a long way toward gaining the GOP the Congress in 1994. What about Dan Rostenkowski? Is he out of jail yet? The perceived (and in some cases, actual) corruption of the Congress under Democratic leadership was a major impetus in 1994.

Nobody's perfect and there are no white knights. I may feel that the GOP vision of America is a fairy tale, but I also realize it doesn't engender more corruption than Democrats. It only engenders much more obvious and vulgar displays. Corrupt Democrats at least have the good sense not to trumpet what they're doing.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
28. It may never end. Get rid of one bunch of crooks, others step in.
And this last bunch were total sociopaths. Just too much money for the taking. They were able to get the entire US treasury without the public saying a word. Best scam ever.

They just got a bit greedy when they thought they could steal the mideast's oil.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I always ask, how many houses, cars, and whores can you own
I never understood ostentatious wealth. How much can you own? If you can't live on $22 million a year, why go on living? Most of these 20%'s lives sole purpose is making money, and then making more so they can leave every cent to their scornful children without having to pay a dime in taxes on it. They have no moral compass, and they can't tell me they do. Speaking the name Jesus does not guarantee these fools' entrance to the kingdom of heaven, but it certainly impresses themselves.

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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I agree 100%. How much money can any one person spend?
But it is not just about money, it is about power and control.
Their money will be of no use in Hell, which is where they will find themselves.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. A new vietnam, a new watergate.
Same script, different decade.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Nixon resigned and the gang came back to run a secret sub-government
against the law - the Iran Contra drug and gun running political and profit campaign. Same people. Including Poppy who was praised by an author of an article posted here on DU this morning - Wilkerson?

Nixon - 70's.
Iran-Contra - 80's
Clinton - 90's
Massacres - 2000's

With continual wheeling and dealing of wmd and nuclear parts, supplies, and knowledge throughout - along with corporate, media, military, banking thefts and loss through stealing and killing for FORTY years.

But, the phenomena of born-agains supporting them and their catering and slaving to the born-agains (for their vote bloc) is not that old. Their arrogance of holding hands with the Israelis on one side and the Saudi Royal family with the other is not that old. Closed bidding is not that old. The CIA HAVING TO defend themselves is not that old. TELLING us that they are going to change our reality is not that old. Before, they didn't tell us.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. This is because Democrats are often to squeamish to do the dirty work
Properly defeating the GOP will require a political bloodbath. It will involve the forcible dismantling of the GOPs political machine, its funding sources, its traditions and legacy. A lot of wealthy, powerful people will be ruined and barred from politics forever. It will change America. This isnt pleasant work, most sitting Democrats would rather just go along to get along and therein lies the problem. They have to be as ruthless and cruel as those we face to cauterize the gaping national wound that is the GOP, and the stomach for this sort of work just doesnt exist with most of the Democratic leadership. In fact, most are close friends with the GOP despite all that Republicans have done to them and our country. Think about that.

Until the strength to face this situation materializes, this problem wont go away. In the meantime, we will have to remain dependant on rogue Republicans like Patrick Fitzgerald to fix our problems for us.

Its shameful to depend on your opposition for salvation, isnt it?
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. It isn't dirty work, it's our moral compass guiding us
Everyone stole a pencil from work, everyone looked over your friend's shoulder while taking a test, but NO ONE I am or have ever been friends with has been corrupt, no one. It isn't depending on our opposition to do the dirty work, it's the unfortunate aspect of NOT having to what they do and sink to their level, but to sponge the tub out and try to start anew.

I would be the first to stand in line to clean the tub.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'm bumping this only for the historical significance
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-21-time...

And we now find Scooter began flaming Joseph Wilson long before his article, and the idiots at the NY Slimes now realize they've been had.


We're at the door, only this time, people aren't in the streets in front of the White House where they should be. But they're here, rubbing shoulders arm in arm, tears and cheers waiting to erupt. Let's keep the pressure up. One year till we can take back control.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Great War was suppose to end all wars. Then came WWII
and that was suppose to end all wars. Here we are again. Nothing has changed much in the last two thousand years. Other than a better way to kill people.
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