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Bizarro morning. Walter Pinkus. Joe de Genova.

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:16 AM
Original message
Bizarro morning. Walter Pinkus. Joe de Genova.
I caught most of the program on C-Span this morning with Walter Pinkus of the Washington Post talking about 'wmdgate'. Pinkus appeared to say what has been said on DU about some of the facts as generally accepted. Cheney did not send Wilson, the CIA did. Plame did not send Wilson, the CIA did. There were other statements. He carefully pinpointed dates which was good. In general, he seemed very reasonable except for a problem with pronouns. He would say 'him' which was preceded by mention of two males. He was a little too imprecise at times.

I then flipped to the Imus show for a minute to see what whine he had about his poor self. He was just starting a phone interview with Joe DiGenova who proceeded to spin all the old lies. He has not moved one inch in this propaganda spin. The only difference in his lies compared to a couple of months ago or compared to his wife, if that he appeared to be ultra emotional and animated. He is still saying that Plame was not covert. And he is a LAWYER.

He and his wife, Victoria Toensing, appear to have more than a passing interest in lying for Cheney. Why would two (highly paid?) LAWYERS spend all the time they do defending Cheney posing as guest experts or even journalists?

It is intriguing to contemplate their passion in attempting to smear and bring down the Clintons and now trying to save Cheney or all of the WHIG group and others.

Are they paid spinners? If not, why are they so diligent in smearing and defending?
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. DiGenova and Toensing are Elves
Just like Coulter, the Olsons and crew... most of whom are / were lawyers, also.

As for seeing ol' Joe as "ultra emotional and animated", I'm pretty sure that's his default setting. It's always amusing to me to see him when Clinton's name is mentioned -- purple face and flying spittle on a wingnut is such a charming look, IMO.
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL. DiGenova does get a little worked up over Clenis.
He and his wife a seriously whacked. What sick SICK people.

I've seen the man actually break down and cry over Ken Starr.
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. That was on Larry King, wasn't it?
It's so hard to keep track of his on-air breakdowns...
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Jeez, remember when they were claiming that Clinton
was threatening them and having them followed and harrassing them?
They never had one iota of proof, but the press bought it and kept interviewing them. They never filed any kind of police report that I recall.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Republican party hacks, both of them.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. I saw the exact same two shows. I thought Pincus was credible
too - I would have liked to have heard him talk much more since he seems to know so much. There was one item, though, a caller mentioned the State Dept or CIA, not sure, document that we have all heard Colin Powell was waving around on AF1. Pincus shrugged that whole thing off. I also heard from Powell, on LK the other night, that Plame's name was not on that document.

Yes, and diGenova made me sick too. He was spouting every lie, over and over again. An Imus, who blows with the wind, was agreeing. He also agrees when the exact opposite is said by other guests. I have yet to figure him out. diGenova is good though, he almost had me second guessing.

Sometimes, we are so sure, I am afraid we could be too one-sided. Automatically backing Wilson and the CIA on this to the hilt. Playing devil's advocate, I hope that there is nothing more to this -like the CIA purposely sending Wilson to get at the craw of the administration. But I guess that doesn't matter. Wilson was right and I believe the CIA knew he was.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. What has been said here on DU is that the paper involved was Plame's
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:51 AM by higher class
classified personnel file. Pinkus was very vague. But, the caller wasn't very specific. We've read many times that a journalist witnessed it.

I heard Wilson on some long interviews on Air America and I believe what he said. Why would a professional like him write lies in the Washington Post and repeat them on radio and tv? Especially when the findings agree with his position and especially when the right wing has brought out all the worst of the propagandist lawyers against him.

His qualifications for the assignment are perfect. I remember him saying that:

Yellow cake only seems to come from four countries in Africa.
He was Ambassador to two? of them.
He speaks fluent French - their language.
He was acting in an Ambassador type position in Iraq when Hussein refused to back off Kuwait. He was praised by Bush, Sr.
He admits he is not a scientist, but it doesn't take much to understand the purpose and qualities of yellocake and you don't have to be a scientist to understand the buying and selling of it.

Actually, I think he did the country a favor by staying with what he knew. His wife was exposed in retaliation. Instead of going into what we are figuring out now.

In looking back, I think he knew a lot more, but let other people make the claims - my favorite one being that Cheney was trying to close down Brewster-Jennings.

I believe Cheney was conflicted while running sting and trafficking operations. He needed the CIA, but he was hell bent on going along with Rumsfeld )and PNAC?) in closing it down in favor of a military intelligence unit. There is no doubt about this regime demeaning the CIA.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I believe Wilson too - I just don't want to be surprised. I liked
it when Wilson said, we had very young twins, and everyone knows a wife doesn't want her husband sent away so that he can't help with them. But, it is possible that Plame and others knew the administration was pushing hard on the Niger hoax and they all knew that Wilson would be sympathetic and honest. It is also possible that Cheney had her cover blown because she and her group were getting close to uncovering his shenanagins in trafficking. I have been trying to find a link to American Judas by Paulsen. Have it printed but can't find the link...
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Here's the link. What's interesting is that the person who said that
they saw the doc was "a former administration official who was on the trip" Wonder who that could be ? I read that the WH refuses to release the names of those on the plane that day.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aag...


The memo, prepared by the State Department on July 7, 2003, informed top administration officials that the wife of ex- diplomat and Bush critic Joseph Wilson was a CIA agent. Seven days later, Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was publicly identified as a CIA operative by syndicated columnist Robert Novak.

On the same day the memo was prepared, White House phone logs show Novak placed a call to White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, according to lawyers familiar with the case and a witness who has testified before the grand jury. Those people say it isn't clear whether Fleischer returned the call, and Fleischer has refused to comment.

The Novak call may loom large in the investigation because Fleischer was among a group of administration officials who left Washington later that day on a presidential trip to Africa. On the flight to Africa, Fleischer was seen perusing the State Department memo on Wilson and his wife, according to a former administration official who was also on the trip.


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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe they agreed to take on this role through their membership
in the Federal Society. Jester pimps?
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. I heard DiGenova
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:38 AM by ewagner
for a little while but when (sl)Imus didn't challenge his "Wilson lied about Cheney.." bs......I couldn't flip the channel quickly enough...
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. why is anyone talking to diGenova about anything?
He's not involved, he's lawyer to none of the people involved, he has no information to impart, he has no credibility, no insight. Nada. Niente. Why does the media keep dragging these has-beens onto the airwaves?
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. I listened to Limbaugh yesterday, and he was spinning the same bunk...
I only listened for 10 minutes, but Limbaugh was touting the same spin.

He was saying that Plame wasn't covert.

He also said that Libby didn't know she was covert.

Limbaugh droned on and on about how, at the time of her "outing" that she was not a covert agent.

This is regurgitated crapola from weeks, even months, ago.

My guess is that they are grasping at straws and attempting to cement these little tidbits (she wasn't covert, Libby didn't know she was covert) in the minds of the Limbots, in hopes that something sticks.

These talking points are so pathetic. My guess is that when Fitz announces what he has, it will be like a tidal wave barreling into these little propaganda points. These lies are meaningless.

The neocons have absolutely NO CLUE what Fitz has found or where the investigation has led. So, they're wildly throwing up anything--hoping that it might make a difference when Fitz reveals his findings.

It's fun to watch these thugs flail about in the choppy waters.

Fitz has really handled this beautifully. He's kept everything secret. Rush and the rest of the thugs cannot implement their attack and destroy tactics--because they don't know what they should be attacking and destroying. Fitz has neutered them with his total silence. The only way these thugs win, is if they can attack, attack, attack--and repeat false talking points and spin. The offense has not been revealed, so they're left without a defense.

They've met their match with Fitz. If these third-class thugs had governed like respectable, diplomatic leaders--they might not have to resort to their rabid attack tactics. That's all they've got and it's not going to work this time.

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. The fact that the so-called professionals like Toensing and De Genova
and lower level psychos like Limbaugh and Hannity are all saying the same thing and what they are saying is many months old.

But, it works for some - the little old ladies calling in to Washington Jouranl are still repeating them, plus some other weird ones. But, then even prissy flip flopper Matthews and prissy John Fund are still repeating them.

The circus has about nine rings and the clowns are into their act.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. How to talk to a conservative about Plamegate
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/07/14/rove-primer

CLAIM: Plame Wasnt An Undercover Agent
Ed Rogers, former official under Reagan/Bush: I think it is now a matter of established fact that Mrs. Plame was not a protected covert agent, and I dont think theres any meaningful investigation about that.

FACT: Former CIA Officer Who Worked With Plame Verified She Was Undercover
Larry Johnson, former CIA officer: Valerie Plame was a classmate of mine from the day she started with the CIA. I entered on duty at the CIA in September 1985. All of my classmates were undercoverin other words, we told our family and friends that we were working for other overt U.S. Government agencies. We had official cover.

CLAIM: Rove Was Trying To Correct A False Story
Rove attorney Luskin added, What Karl was trying to do was to warn Time away from publishing things that were going to be established as false.

FACT: Wilson Was Right, Bush Was Wrong
Bloomberg recently reported, Two-year old assertions by former ambassador Joseph Wilson regarding Iraq and uranium, which lie at the heart of the controversy over who at the White House identified a covert U.S. operative, have held up in the face of attacks by supporters of presidential adviser Karl Rove.

CLAIM: Wilson Lied About His Trip To Niger
Former Rove deputy Ken Mehlman: What Joe Wilson alleged was that the vice president, then he said the CIA director sent him to Niger.

FACT: Wilson Never Said Cheney Personally Sent Him To Niger
Bloomberg reported, Wilson never said that Cheney sent him, only that the vice presidents office had questions about an intelligence report that referred to the sale of uranium yellowcake to Iraq from Niger. Wilson, in his New York Times article, said CIA officials were informed of Cheneys questions. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice presidents office, Wilson wrote.

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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Here's a little interesting background on Walleye Toensing
While Chief Counsel for Senator Barry Goldwater, Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, 1981-1984, Toensing was instrumental in winning passage of two important bills: (1) to protect the identities of intelligence agents and (2) to protect certain classified information from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

See why they have to say Plame wasn't an agent????? HAHAHAHAHA.
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