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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:31 AM
Original message
Republican calls DNC for help in MA with a dying woman from New Orleans.
This is such a sad story it is hard to even be glad he turned to the DNC. I am very proud of our DNC and its efforts in helping. They have gone the second mile. Kudos to the DNC staffer and to Senator Kennedy's office.

Lending a helping hand

On Friday, September 9, days after Hurricane Katrina had ravaged the Gulf Coast, I felt frustrated and angry. In the communications department here at the DNC, I spend most of my day working and watching the news, and although I felt informed of what was going on around me, I also felt helpless and powerless to help those so far away.

At 10 a.m. the phone rang, and while I usually only get calls from the press, this one was different. A man identifying himself as a lifelong Republican was on the line. I began to prepare myself for whatever harsh words he was about to unleash, but to my surprise he said, "I need your help." So I asked him "What do you need?"

In the wake of Katrina, Forrest King took in six evacuees because he said it was time for Americans to come together and help one another. He went on to say he had an elderly woman in his care, she had no medicine, and no one from the state or federal level would help him. He said that the Republican Party had abandoned him. He said the last thing he ever expected was to be calling up the DNC asking for help but he had no one else to call.

Forrest told me the President he campaigned for -- just under a year ago -- had failed him and that Bush's blatant lack of leadership in the face of this crisis had shattered his faith in the Republican Party. It was further shattered when he called his Governor, Republican Mitt Romney, and gotten no help. It was diminished even more after a call to the Republican National Committee, who told him they couldn't do anything. He was shocked that his own party -- though politically in power at the national and state level -- didn't seem to have control over anything.

I explained to him that I was in the communications department in Washington, DC and didn't know what I could do for him. He said just get me medicine and help for this woman, she's dying. I knew I had to do something, so I called the state party in Massachusetts and spoke with the executive director. I told her the situation. She placed a call to a case worker in Senator Kennedy's office. I continued to call the state party and Kennedy's office throughout the day for updates.


More at the link

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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yup. Dems CARE. n/t
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a great story. I'm glad that man turned to the DNC when he did!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Why does this sound like fiction? n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The GOP is fiction now.....their behavior is not in the reality realm.
Trust me, the staffer is telling the truth.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. But look at the words. It's just too pat. No one writes
like this about something that really happened. It's too smooth, no edges in the prose.

Maybe I've just gotten too cynical to live. :shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It would not be posted there if not true.
Call Kennedy's office, call the Democratic Party of MA....it is real.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Maybe this staffer's first hand account was put through
a polisher and that's what I'm picking up on.

Sorry to be a pain.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. I just find it very odd you would question it.
I find it very strange.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Not me, it hit me the same way, like something written specifically to
plunk the heart strings and glorify the Dems over the Repubs. Just did not feel real at all. Even a sit-com would not have used such an obvious plot.

I'm glad to see downthread that there is evidence that the story is real, but I had the same reaction as sfexpat2000.
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mermaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
83. It Did Sound Too Good To Be True
in terms of showing the "Compassion Gap" between Republicans and Democrats. i'm glad to see the evidence of it being true, too.

I'm sad that any such thing ever had to happen, but now we have at least woken ONE Republican up to the reality of which Party is truly the party of Compassion...and which is the party of "I Don't Give A Shit."
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
93. Like the someone said
just call Kennedy's staffers and ask if this happened. If you want to know just call and ask.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #93
133. I would do that in a heartbeat but then this is what I would be doing
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 01:51 AM by sfexpat2000
"Hello? Is that story bull?"

Click.

You know, I've been sick on the floor watching all this. If the DNC is helping, wonderful.

And if this isn't true, or if it's being hyped, it won't hurt us to know that.

Bottom line (on edit): I'd rather deal with the real mistakes I've made than prop up propaganda, NO MATTER WHO WROTE IT.

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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #133
136. Psst...
you are supposed to catapult propaganda, not prop it up :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #136
138. OOps!
:rofl:
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #133
150. Kennedy's staffers are among the few, even among Dems who would treat you
with respect and go the extra mile. I wonder how many of the tens of thousands Sen. Kennedy has helped by having 3 times the usual number of compassionate and well-trained Caseworkers, according to the Washington Post online a few years ago, who are polite and go the extra mile and treat you like a human being who needs help and not given the brush off like Pelosi, Eleanor Norton of DC and too many other Democrats to mention whose staff parrot the line, you are not a constituent so get lost.

I wonder how many people that Sen. Kennedy has helped can't afford a computer or Internet access or you would hear more about the people he has helped. If he had not helped me, I wouldn't either. That is why I am upset that Democratic Underground rarely, until recently, mentions Sen. Kennedy's steadfast decades long work for the poor both in legislation he has fought for and individual help from his caseworkers and the fact that although their are avatars for President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, there are none for Sen. Kennedy when he is the epitome of a true Democrat and real compassion in action human being.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
149. Cliches are cliches because the speak a truth!
:pals:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I'm a textual analyst. When you read something that is so crafted,
and you have my training, bells just go off.

I usually don't try to rain on good stories. :)
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm a writing teacher
And I have a 101 course for which I read four-page narrative papers submitted by students. "Narrative" has a story line. I didn't expect all that much from my students but out of a class of 24, I had two papers that read very professionally.

Narrative is the easiest form of writing because all it is is a chronology.

FWIW.




Cher
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
81. Exactly. Though, as a matter of fact,
far from seeming polished and professional, from a technical viewpoint, I thought the seventh paragraph was rather poorly written; it seemed truncated in the manner of colloquial speech - too compressed, as if written in a hurry, so that I found the chronology of the actions and exchanges somewhat unclear, if not confused.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
124. But, it was more polished than a real person writing down what
this experience was like. Either there was multiple authorship or there was a period of time between the experience and the codification in writing or ?

I see I started an upset here and I sincerely didn't mean to.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #124
167. The author was from the communications department of the DNC
Why should it be surprising that the writing seemed polished? The author clearly states that they worked in the communications department. If they write professionally, then it shouldn't be surprising that they would write this way in retelling these events.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. I'm a retired teacher, minors in communication and the arts.
I think after you read all the articles linked here in this thread, you might want to post an apology to the person named Kimberly Hunter at the DNC and to the person who so kindly tried to help these people.

He was running into FEMA snafus with two women because they were lesbian. FEMA did not want to undertake their medical care.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. And I would be apologizing for what?
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 10:27 AM by sfexpat2000
Having reading skills and being a critical thinker? :)

Let's see if I can do this quickly: In a class of 24, when I'd get two papers that seemed very professional, they usually were. Narrative framing isn't what I'd look to to establish "authenticity" because most of us can write lists. You'd have to look at the grammar and you'd need a good enough sample.

Which is why I asked why this read like fiction, not why Kimberly Hunter is a liar. That big money to the UC Regents has not been an utter waste, I hope.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. If it makes you feel better, go ahead.
You don't really bother me. I think perhaps a little more is showing here than just reading skills and critical thoughts....but then that is just my own thought.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
121. madfloridian, up thread, I apologized to you for being
a pain in the @ss.

But, if we can't ask real questions, why are we here? And what exactly do you think is showing, hmmmmmmmmmm?

It seems to be your turn to post an apology to me for being a pain in the @ss. I forgive you in advance. And forgive both of us for taking ourselves just a tad too seriously.

lol
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #123
126. Then, I won't count on you to defend freedom of speech
and expression in this country.

Good to know the sides.

And last time I looked, the DNC was not consecrated as the Pope is. They represent US. They work for US. In fact, it's our job to make sure that they don't fail us as wretchedly as the RNC have failed their people.

And yes, you owe an apology for asking a fellow progressive not to THINK. Thinking is a useful process, one you might experiment with in a free moment. Or, you might post a disclaimer on your threads.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #126
127. Baloney argument.
:crazy: :crazy:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #127
130. Ah. The invalidation defense. lol n/t
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #130
144. I think it would be safe to say
that YOU do a bit of research before you try to debunk the truth.

Perhaps "google it" might be good advice here. The OP has posted reliably and credibly for quite some time. The names and situation would be easily found on the Internet.

You had doubts. But your doubts resembled accusations. I don't blame the OP for getting frustrated with your "I-have-training-so-I-make-the-overriding-Judgement-Call." Your writing and critiquing skills must be met with impulse control and research, and then you might be fit to make snap judgements.

Peace.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #144
145. But, notice, I didn't say any such thing (sorry, editing for typos)
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 04:01 AM by sfexpat2000
This comes down to me asking a question and being accused of making a "snap judgement".

bhg, who is making the snap judgement here?

Whoa. Just, whoa.

(on edit: -e)
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
94. There is another story you should read on down
Someone posted a story of how they got help with the local democratic party too. You should read it. I believe it's the third or so post after the story.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
42. I also do textual analysis, and
the person who wrote it is a staffer - or handed it off to a staffer. Of course, it is going to be polished. Actually, DU is one of the places where I don't always go back and polish my prose ( and sometimes I do here).
Actually, and sorry to go off topic a little here, the whole question of what constitutes "authenticity" or "honesty" in anecdotal writing is loaded. For example, look at the way the rumor of George's drinking was handled by press ( and yes, I'm considering the "press" in which it appeared). If you read it,it reads as a one-time slip ( incidentally, I am not interested in the gossip factor which, to me is irrelevant, just the slanting), after Katrina. More to the point, though, it reads like a script for a bad John Wayne movie where the reformed gunslinger sees something horrific, knocks back a "texas-size shot" of whiskey to steady his nerves, and then in comes Pickles ( read Grace Kelley), saying "It's either Jim Beam or me."
Simply because a thing is crafted in terms of style, and is emotionally appealing in its raw from to the intended audience doesn't invalidate it. Oh, and I'm not saying, implying, suggesting or anything elsing that anyone here is saying, implying, suggesting or anything elsing that. Knowing full well it was crafted still got me to log on and comment on Democrats. org. As an academic, it is a question that interests me. Incidentally, if it does not check out, and it begs to be checked by Coulter or O'Reilly or Hannity or Pastor Swank, we are screwed and that staffer is really screwed. It will check out,though. It is too loaded not to.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. Right. In these illiterate days, even ordinary people can write well.
I have no training in writing, other than one university English Literature course, which is not exactly "training in writing". Even though I have pursued a technical career, I always craft and polish what I write for the web. I proofread. I edit. I re-order it to maintain a logical development. I read it multiple times to ensure it has flow. Even if it is a one line no-text-subject-line, dashed off to respond quickly to a post here, I take a moment to pack into that one line as much impact as the limited number of characters allow.

Good writing is not terribly difficult. Great writing is very hard to master and extremely difficult to achieve consistently.
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #52
99. Your correct about the difficulty.
I do the exact things you do before I post. I'd hate to come off as some illiterate hack. It seems to pay off, because, I get a great deal of positive affirmation for my writing style here on DU. :blush:

It means a great deal, because I know there are so many educated people here. I'm just well read and still reading.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
122. Maybe, but that isn't what set off me off. This writing isn't great, it's
a little stilted actually.

But, I have a lot of training in reading. About ten years when Bezerkeley was the toughest and best rated U in the country.

I can't help the way I read any more than people can help ear worms. Sentences are three dimensional to me.

So, when someone is writing a first hand account, and it is just *so* polished, my wires trip. Usually those piece really are propaganda and usually have a right wing source -- just like those Target product reviews that are obviously written by marketing folks and not real consumers?

It seems as though this piece went through a wash cycle or maybe I'm just wrong. Both happen. But I stand by my right, my actual RESPONSIBILITY, to weigh what I read as actively as possible. And no DNC or DLC blowhard is going to change my mind on that one.

The bigger issue on this thread for me is, how asking an honest question seems to be a little fraught here right now, first amendment notwithstanding.

What you resist, you may become, if you're not careful . . . . And it's been SO PRODUCTIVE for us in the past to just take everything at face value . . .

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Then don't be. You really could try to restrain yourself.
I understand what you are saying, but what point does it serve, other to rain on other's parade?
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes, please find out.
I think it's a little odd that someone would turn to either one of the party offices for the type of help he needed. Seems to me a direct call to appropriate local agencies would be more in order.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. No, I know it is true. You call Kennedy's office and MA Dem party.
I am surprised at this. I really am. I think if you don't believe it, you disprove it. Be my guest.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm glad it is.
Actually, I man the phones at my State Party office sometimes and we do get all kinds of requests so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. We probably get a dozen or so calls a day from frustrated veterans seeking help for their issues.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. The staffer is Kimberly Hunter. Call the DNC and ask for her.
Make yourself feel lots better. I can not imagine your thinking they would post a made up story at the DNC blog.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I will take your word for it! n/t
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
48. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see made up stories on the RNC blog!
:)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. They are probably looking to be puit in touch with their Congress
critters. I work in a library and when I'm manning the telephone reference, that is one of the most frequent calls I would get--desperate people needing an advocate looking for their Congressional officers.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
78. The local convenience stores get calls about the weather
and school closings and "what did the scanner say about that deputy who just sireened by?"

When I worked at a 50,000 watt radio station, we got calls on all sorts of subjects. Desperate people call anyone who might answer. Just ask anyone who answers a busy public phone.

This reads like the case of a Repuke who has suddenly seen that that "socialist" concept of government intervening to help the sick, weak, least among us might actually have some merit.

It would be logical for him to call the "other team" because as much as he claimed not to "need" handouts when he was campaigning for **, he viewed "his team" as winners who would take care of him if the chips were really down. No one thinks they need help until they need it, in other words.

Repukes have rushed to gut funds for social programs that would have overseen the elderly woman's care, choosing instead to spend the $$$ on machines and humanpower to gut other humans and countries and to provide the uber-rich with more of what they don't seem to understand: money.

Now perhaps he realizes that war and disease and famine make profits for rich white people, but America might be a nicer place if we concentrate our efforts and joint $$$$ on helping one another.

Forrest wanted an all-powerful King to cheer. He got a buffoon.

Even if this story is false in the details, it's true in the moment.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #78
95. I believe he did try his local RNC
And they failed him. They told him they couldn't help him. And I too am shocked. The party that controls everything in the country couldn't do anything for him? Yeah, right! They didn't have anything to gain publicity wise.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Her name is Kimberly Hunter. Call the DNC and ask for her.
Make yourself feel better. Goodness, I bet once a day at least the DNC post lies at the blog. :sarcasm:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. You're too cynical
The person who wrote this is a trained staffer - probably well-versed in the ability to write press releases and give quotes to reporters. That's why it sounds so "pat," at you say.

I haven't reported in four years, but I still write like I was trained to do in formal communications. It's an old habit that dies hard.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
96. Yes
And even if she went through college writing courses learned a lot. I took three writing courses and my writing has improved a lot since then. So if she did any college I'm sure she learned a lot with writing.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
55. Fact AND well written?
why would you automatically assume that these things are are mutually exclusive?


Maybe I've just gotten too cynical to live. :shrug:

Not too cynical to live, just too cynical

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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. There's a link to the callers's initial story in Time.
I found nothing in the story that seemed fake. You shouldn't dismiss something because they write well.. the writer of the story was in the Communications Department of the DNC. Part of that job would be... writing. It's real.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
75. Well the guy DOES work in the communications office.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
80. What kind of edges? Could you suggest
an example of what you have in mind?
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
141. I wish the GOP really was fiction...
Unfortunately they are very real and posing as leaders in the country we live in. They walk like we do, look like we do, some talk like we do but they do NOT think or act like we do.

This particular Republican who took in the sick woman and fought so hard for her treatment was an exception and for that he should be made an honorary Democrat.

After his experience with his own party it wouldn't surprise me if he switched. :thumbsup:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The Republican was featured in TIME MAGAZINE this past week
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. That account seems genuine enough.
Just notice the difference in the diction of the OP and the Time piece.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Thanks for the Link
Mr King seems to be an old-school conservative, which are far less offensive to me. He might not be as conservative as he thinks he is - his wife has a hyphenated last name, and in the article at least, he comes across as New England crusty, not Neocon crazy.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
97. My favorite part out of the Time article
<And so, for the past week, King, a self-described "dyed-in-the-wool conservative," has been sharing his home with the Meehan-Hoo family, a lesbian couple with three children, ages 5, 7 and 9. "The adults are same sex, and I don't care," he says. "I don't care if they're purple and got horns coming out of their faces. They're Americans first.">

This is how it should be. We're all Americans first and we all deserve to have the government take care of us and be recognized in the law and equal. I as a straight, white, religious person am no more important than an athiest gay person on the other side of the country. According to my Constiution I'm the exact same equal and should be treated as such.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:05 AM
Original message
Forrest King is real, if you believe Time magazine.
If anyone is lying about this story, I imagine Mr. King would be speaking up about it. Certainly the republican jackals will be sniffing around.

What is clearly true is that there is an exodus from the Republican party occuring, and that Democratic principles are based on compassion.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Sounds like fiction to me too.
Why would someone call a political party office for medical help? You'd call 911, take the person to the ER, take them to a doctor or clinic depending on the emergency. Information on financial help is available at those locations, and others. It might take a half-dozen to dozen phone calls, but calling the RNC or DNC for medical help just doesn't seem to be productive.

I suspect the author of the story is trying to make democrats feel good, and repugs look evil. Sorry, I don't need to read a piece of fiction to feel good about being a democrat and see the neo-cons for the evil bastards they are. Lets keep it real...
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. Sorry to disappoint you. It's very real.
The writer of the story happened to work in the Communications Dept. of the DNC. That is why it so well written. That was the person that happened to answer the phone. The man didn't take her to the doctor's office probably because he didn't have insurance for her, or didn't know what to do with her.

The rescuer was featured in a Time Mag article. I doubt he's a fake. WHY must people be so damn cynical. Open your heart and your mind... and be happy this story had a happy ending.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. No surprise it was well written...
...the staffer worked in the communications dept. Its the basic premise of the story which I question. If I had a dying woman in my home, I'd call 911. If money was a problem, I'd try local social services - even churches and local Red Cross. What I wouldn't do is call the national offices of a political party. That part of the story just doesn't make sense.

If your house was on fire, and the local FD was slow to respond, would you call the national office of the RNC, explain you were a life-long Democrat who supported Kerry in the last election, and ask them to help send firetrucks? Of course not.

The gist of the story may be true, I don't know. But it sounds "embellished", which is what raised a red flag to me, not how well it was written.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I think she's the Assistant Press Secretary at the DNC (nt)
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #63
148. You have obviously never needed help - Churches including Catholic
Charities and Lutheran Social Services do nothing. I had trouble getting my mother oxygen so she could leave Bethesda Naval Hospital, the Social worker there could not help. The doctor refused to discharge her until we could afford the downpayment on the oxygen, I called everyone in town and everyone kept telling me to call Red Cross, they were polite but could not help.

I spent two days calling, one dead end after another until someone I knew from a prayer group knew someone who was in the military and he said he was surprised and upset that the military would not do more for one of their own and called the oxygen company who called the Marines who had a fund for military medical needs and so I was able to get my mother home from the hospital.

If you think calling 911 means you will get help, you are living in a dream world. You obviously don't know how bad it is. Sen. Kennedy said years ago that emergency rooms are bursting at the seams and they send away CHILDREN and others with broken bones and DO NOTHING.

I was lucky that my mother got good care from the doctors and nurses at Bethesda Naval but the social workers there are useless and I have no insurance and nearly died from an infection despite 6 visits to the ER, Triage refusing to write that I was constantly vomiting from an infection behind my eye, turned out to be in the right sphenoid sinus with a cyst blocking the drainage and STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED HELP WITH THAT OR WITH THE BLOCKAGE in the right tearduct causing my eye to tear, SEEN ON A CT THAT I MANAGED TO GET AFTER A KIND WORKER AT JEWISH SOCIAL SERVICES CALLED ALL DAY AT THE HOSPITAL and 24 hours after an ambulance refused to take me to the hospital, did not physical exam whatever, the second ambulance I called touched my stomach, said it was very hard, probably from potassium deficiency and they immediately put me on an IV and the very rude head doctor after giving me an IV and telling me not to come back was shocked after he received the results of my blood tests and kept saying over and over again "You had no potasium, no minerals and no sodium in your system." Despite the male nurse also repeating this mantra and saying he tried to get the red out of my face, they discharged me after 4 hours and I cannot tell you how ill I was.

The only help I ever received was antibiotics despite signing up with Johns Hopkins bogus program to help Medicaid patients which is really to help them get funds from NIH and National Eye Institute and Senate Appropriations. The Best of the Best wrote that I broke my right foot instead of the avulsion fracture I suffered on my left food and could not get them to change it though I wrote to the director of Johns Hopkins for 10 months and never received any treatment for my broken foot under the ankle with a high level of blood and swelling and warnings from two technicians who did the bone scan and the hour long CT of my foot.

The Johns Hopkins initiated MCO Priority Partners can get you radiological work but no medical care whatever even after my Congressperson got involved with a nudge from Senator Kennedy, whose staff was very kind and the only ones who did not like Elenor Norton and Pelosi telling me to get lost if my Congresspersons would not get involved because I wasn't a contituent.

I spoke to a young mother who also made long trips to Hopkins for her 3 year old son only to be given the same BS that I received and no medical care. Hopkins brags on their website that they are the biggest providers of medical care to Medicaid patients and it is a lie. You need to visit The Social Security Disability Coalition to find out some of the horrors that are happening.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #148
156. "You have obviously never needed help" - How would YOU know?
Two recent incidents.

I sought treatment for a badly infected cut on my hand. My doctor was on an extended sabbatical in Australia. I called a few friends who were in the medical field, and they all recomended a particular Hospital whose ER was much faster than Tampa General's (3hrs vs 12 hrs). X-Rays, drugs, dressing, etc, and I bargained the price down to $500. More expensive than a doctor's visit for sure, but at least I could pay it. Tampa General would have treated for free if I couldn't pay. I admit that the thought of calling the national office of a political party didn't occur to me. :rolleyes:

I briefly had a roommate who was an illegal immigrant. He badly cut the tendons in his hand, and had no money. After several calls, he found a nearby Russian Orthodox Church who paid for a doctor's visit.

Since the elderly woman was most likely eligible for medicare and/or medicaid, I don't see where cost would be an issue at all. Even if she left her perscription and med paperwork in N.O. (always take with you if you have to evacuate!), I would imagine that info would be in a database. If ERs in your state are turning away people needing medical attention, they should be investigated because that's not the norm.

I googled the story this morning with interesting results. "Forrest King" turned up the Time and Bay Window articles about him housing the Lesbian couple. No mention of a sick or dying woman in the first several pages of results. Refining the search to "Forrest King" + dying woman revealed THREE hits - two Democratic message boards (one was DU) and the original DNC piece. Both message boards repeated the DNC piece verbatim, copied and pasted, I presume. In short, there IS NO "proof" of the accuracy of the original article. We really don't know if the original article is 100% accurate, exaggerated, hyped, or a fabrication. Just because it pulls at the heart-strings and appeals to us because it makes rethugs look bad, doesn't mean it's true. We just don't know at this time.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
82. "Sorry, I don't need to read
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 04:43 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
a piece of fiction to feel good about being a democrat".

Well, you're in luck then aren't you. Perhaps you'd prefer writing it?

(Incidentally, a capital "D" please. I'm sure the neocons would all claim to be democrats).

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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #82
100. If you need regular affirmation
to reassure yourself that you've made the right choice of political parties - then by all means knock yourself out. Many of us don't need these heartstring-tugging "conversion" stories to know we've made the right decision. At this time, the Democratic Party the most closely in line with my beliefs. That is enough for me - not "Them-bad" "Us-virtuous" stories from a propaganda office.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #100
164. Them and us, eh? Surely not... Let's all get along together, eh?
Propaganda office? You sound like a real died-in-the-wool Dem, and no mistake.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #82
143. As long as you feel good. n/t
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. I know that this is true.
He lives in my town and I spoke with him.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Thank you so much.
There is a great article below as well. I think some folks are just being ugly here, and it is painful to watch. It really is.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. I had the exact same reaction
and to those down-thread who seem to think there is something sinister about that reaction, I challenge them to read any of my 1000+ posts. A healthy skepticism is necessary, especially in a Political realm where some minor error of detail is routinely used to discredit a larger truth.

It serves no one to be credulous.

I note that downthread there seem to be various verifications, which I don't have time to read at the moment. But I certainly hope that it IS true, a great story, if so.

This man may not be rich (I wouldn't know), but I doubt he's ever been poor enough to need help from the Social Services sytem - any of my clients would have known what to do without calling a Politician.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
84. Well, by calling politicians he clearly performed
an invaluable public service, by confirming the truth about the neocons - in the teeth of the endless bullsh*t they peddle. Is that so difficult for a Democrat to grasp?
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #84
112. Always delighted here to see the social darwinism of the Rs exposed
in all its' ugliness. I am not among those who think that "ordinary" Republicans are decent sorts. I think anyone who belongs to the Republican Party has taken a stand against Labor, against the well-being of children, against the survival of the Planet, and against every form of social and racial justice.

That does not mean that I am willing to repeat every example of above that I come across without being as sure as I can be that it is accurate.

The larger truth of the story, the "moral of the story" is, in my estimation, absolutely true - that the Republican Party is a front for Oligarchy, Class and Race War, and Profiteering Corporations benefiting the super-rich at the expense of the poor, working people, the environment, and peace. And it is grand to see it exposed so perfectly by a Republican. As long as it is true, it's a great anecdote. But it is also undeniably true that the illegitimate occupier of the WH evaded the Vietnam War while John Kerry went off to earn Purple Hearts. Yet look what the Media did with minor inaccuracies to Dan Rather and the Kerry Campaign.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
66. I thought the same thing. But there is a link to the time story
stating that the guy was a Republican, and that he did take these people in.

So its probably true.

But, yes, it does read like propaganda...
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
85. Propaganda is neutral. It may be true, or it may be false,
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 04:51 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
as regards both conception and execution - though the former, alone, of course is culpable. What do you think this is?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #66
139. I wonder. And I hope I'm so wrong. AND
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 02:25 AM by sfexpat2000
ComerPerro is about the best expression I've EVER READ.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
120. Fiction? Not at all...
...helping Republicans is what the DNC does.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great story
There are many disgruntled republicans out there in the wake of Katrina. One from LA ended up on The Democratic Daily a few days after Katrina and he's opened his eyes and is grateful for it. Here's a link to one of his comments on Kerry's speech on the 19th -

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=601#comment-4186

He's a regular commenter on The Democratic Daily now, seems he's more inline with Democratic principles then he ever dreamed.

We gave a place to air his views and we listened to him and he listened to us. If only we could find the space to do this more often.

Thanks for posting this thread.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. From Texas, a First-Hand Account::: More Dem leaders helping.
http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/09/from_texas_a_fi.php

From Texas, a First-Hand Account

"I was sent this message from Melissa Noriega, the wife of Texas State Representative Rick Noriega who is also a Lieutenant Colonel in the US Army. Last week, Houston Mayor Bill White appointed him to run operations at the George R. Brown Convention Center (GRB as it's in the letter), which houses 4000 evacuees. Lt. Colonel Noriega just returned from a tour in Afghanistan, and while there his wife Melissa held his seat in the Texas legislature.

My husband, Rick Noriega, humble public servant and state rep extrordinaire, has managed once again to blow me even me away. You all really should see what God, Mayorbill and Col. Rick Noriega have wrought.
The GRB is organized, orderly and automated. When the folks arrive, we cheer and clap for them, whisk away their dirty clothes while they shower and get them squared away. The moms get queensized air mattresses and the single men cots, in different areas, separated by police and National Guard walking around being very present and very nice. Everyone gets a blanket and a pillow, and if they ask, they can have a second one. The sheets are clearly donated and the floor of the GRB is a sea of quilt squares and out-of-style stripes. The generous people of Houston reached into their linen closets and made up the visitors' beds.

There is a chow hall. It is set up with round tables and chairs in groups. There are handwashing stations set up everywhere, with the hand gel to kill germs--so far the group is pretty healthy.There are port-a-potties tucked away from everyone. There is bottled water everywhere. The guests (that's what they are called--NOT refugees or victims) sit down and eat, with plasticware and napkins. There is a schedule for meals, and lots of lines, so folks don't have to stand long.

Upstairs there is a ballroom set up with TWO FULL SIZE parks gym set ups for the children. With chopped rubber chips underneath. If parents need to leave the kiddos to do paperwork or med stuff, they get a wristband that matches the kids and the volunteers will watch them while they play with the toys donated, again by the wonderful people of Houston.


More at the link.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. We may not always know exactly how to help, but damn if we won't find
a way to do it rather than sitting on our asses worrying about NOT helping.

That's what Democrats do.

What a fantastic story--and blessings to Forrest for his sacrifice and willingness to reach out!
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks for posting this. It is very inspiring.
Why is anyone surprised by the response of the Republican politicians? I'm not criticizing Republicans in general because I believe that ordinary Dems and Repugs for the most part are decent compassionate people. It's the ideology, the policies, and the power structure of Republican leadership that i really despise and this story confirms my reasons for felling this way.
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FearofFutility Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. This story may be true
But I don't understand why Mr. King didn't just call an ambuluance for this poor woman. He thinks she's dying so he calls the DNC? That doesn't make sense to me.
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. No kidding***
nm
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. It's probably because he didn't want to
pay for the ambulance. I doubt he is a rich man and calling an ambulance and footing the bill for medical for someone not in your family would be hard to manage even for the kindest soul. He more than likely was seeing if anyone in the government would take responsibility for this woman. And that's why he called the DNC.

zalinda

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FearofFutility Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. True
But I would still call an ambulance first if I thought someone was dying and worry about the bill later.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
86. Why criticise the direction and chronology of the actions
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 05:09 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
of a man who invited not just one or two strangers into his own home, but eight suffering souls. He might have wondered how long he would feel he had to accommodate them, too, but if he did, he evidently dismissed the thought for all practical purposes.

I am absolutely astonished at DUers presuming to criticise the actions of such a man. He's not an anal retentive, OK? He'll happily blunder through anything, if he can save people from misery.

To quote the man whose spirit was obviously the inspiration of Mr Forrester's "muddled" actions, "Now go away and find out the meaning of the passage, "I want love, not sacrifice, knowledge of God, not holocausts'".
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
67. That could be. But why not call the ambulance first
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:54 PM by ComerPerro
and then call whatever political party to help with the bills.

Oh well...

You know what they say about hindsight...
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #67
105. Maybe because she wasn't DYING dying
You know how it is, you have a med that is bioavailable in your system for a week or two, but if you go without it for too long, you have trouble. Perhaps she was cutting her dose in half...

Bottom line is, if you have ten days of medication and no resupply in sight, and you rely on that med to live, every day closer to not having a refill is a day closer to dying.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. It's because we believe in social services that dems know what to do n/t
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
30. He also took in a lesbian couple. Good Story.
He is one of the good guys. Link below.

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/09/2...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. That article shows how he was fighting FEMA because they were gay.
FEMA apparently would not take care of their medical needs if they were gay.

Thanks for that article...

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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
32. He called 30 people in politics when he could have just called 911
What a moran. He'll be a Republican again soon.
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. Ouch you just gor PNWED
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
72. 911 wouldn't have helped.
If it's not an emergency, they don't respond, genius.

What a dickheaded comment to make.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Then why didn't he just drive her to the hospital?
Most ERs treat first, worry about money after. Plus, it sounds like she would be eligible for medicare/medicaid. While the gist of the story may be true, there are many elements of it that are very strange.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #73
106. Uh, she needs MEDS for diabetes and oldtimers
Yeah, go spend a grand at the ER to get fifty bucks worth of pills.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #106
116. So take her to a doctor or clinic
If she's elderly and broke it sounds like she's eligible for Medicare/Medicaid.

I'm glad the staffer at DNC HQs could enlist the aid of Sen Kennedy's office, but why did the host even call them (or the RNC)? Just doesn't make sense, that's why the story is questionable.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #116
119. You try it, here in MA
With a person, not a relative, not on the rolls, not in the system, a bit off her rocker. Find a handy clinic, an ER that would take her. Odds are she had little more than the clothes on her back, no card, no documents, no medical records, no physician referral, no nothing.

I have a funny feeling that their host is no dummy--I would imagine that calling Ted was a last resort, not a first.

But hey, bash away, and ignore the supporting documentation provided. It clearly pleases you.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #116
128. That was in another age in this country.
Clinics just don't take folks in so quickly now. Even in the ERs they are more cautious. Things are not as they used to be.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #116
151. It took me a FRIGGING YEAR TO GET MEDICAID AND IT IS USELESS,
ERS DON'T TAKE IT, NOT EVEN FROM BROKEN BONES.

What planet do you live on????
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. You seem to be a moran too
911 will send an ambulance if you ask for one. Period.

It's not a dickhead comment. Look, the story's a nice one that shows the compassion of our people versus the indifference of theirs. But the fact of the matter is that any dimwit who'd call the headquarters of a political party when they needed immediate medical help is a moran.

That's like me calling Domino's Pizza if my goal is to influence the vote of my congressperson.
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Doctor Panacea Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #74
114. Agreed
***He went on to say he had an elderly woman in his care, she had no medicine, and no one from the state or federal level would help him.***

If by "elderly" she was old enough for Medicare, then I am pretty sure that Medicare will pay for the ambulance.

In any case, if you have a dying person on your hands, you have to get that person to the HOSPITAL. It is dumb to call a political HQ. And if a patient is truly dying, do not take that person to the doctor's office. That person needs to go the the hospital. Hospitals, even small ones, have social workers who can help with placement of cases like this.

Regardless of whether this story is true or false, it sounded bogus when I read it. I quit reading all the replies and comments here about halfway through, because the emotions being displayed were so silly. It is ridiculous to get mad at people who, very reasonably, question whether the story is true.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
41. I do the research...so you don't have to!!!
It took me a mere moment to find additional proof. Google is our friend!



Here is a pic of Forrest with the gay couple he took in. Read the accompanying article, here: http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/09/2...

Marriage has allowed Bay State same-sex couples unprecedented access to state benefits, but now one couple believes their marriage may be an obstacle to receiving basic relief services after Hurricane Katrina.

The couple, Yolanda and Jan Meehan-Hoo, were legally married last February when they lived in North Attleboro, but last June they made an ill-fated move with their three children to Slidell, La., right in the path of Hurricane Katrina. Now they're back in Massachusetts, staying with a family in Attleboro, and they are working with one of their hosts, Forrest King, a 53-year-old retiree, to secure relief funds from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), medical services through MassHealth, the state's Medicaid program and transitional assistance to establish themselves in Massachusetts. King, who has taken the lead in navigating the state and federal bureaucracy to access these services for the couple, claims FEMA halted the couple's application after he demanded that they be recognized as a same-sex couple.

"FEMA will not accept gay and lesbian couples as a household. do it separate , even if they're living together," said King.....

Ellis said the application for FEMA assistance "wouldn't have anything like marital status. It would be more number of people in the household." She said unmarried roommates could apply for assistance just as easily as a married couple.

Yet King provided Bay Windows with a copy of the Meehan-Hoos's application for assistance from FEMA, and it does indeed ask for the relationships of the people in the household applying for aid. Yolanda Meehan-Hoo said when she filled out the application, she originally listed Jan as her spouse; the fact that the federal government does not recognize the marriages of same-sex couples (thanks to the 1996 Federal Defense of Marriage Act) was the last thing on her mind. ...

------

Another link about Forrest, leading one to the article above: http://blogs.salon.com/0001883/2005/09/28.html

-----

The story doesn't sound "too pat" to me at all, FWIW. Forrest sounds like one of those good old salt of the earth types, who hasn't kept up with the issues that have not affected him, personally.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. And it sounds like it was the mother of one of the ladies who was ill.
At least I get that from an above article. They went to Florida first, then back to MA.

Thanks for posting this. I question some motives for discrediting the story.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. So do I, frankly
Like I said, it took me mere seconds to find that...not a strain at all. Ah, these internets, ain't they grand!
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. As I've read through the threads and
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 10:29 AM by tomg
then through the articles, what strikes me is - at least upthread (where I also posted) - is that most of the commenters who discredited the story did so based on one of two things: the style of the writing ( it is too polished to be "true"); or authenticity ( it is too "good" - propagandistically "good" - to be true). They are both legitimate reasons to be mildly suspect, but they don't in and of themselves invalidate the anecdote. Sometimes people revise and re-write and polish; sometimes propagandistically good stuff happens ( I mean, Bill Bennett fell in our lap the other day)
Until I read MadDem's great link ( thanks for the research), the only thing I questioned outside of some stylistic glitches in the piece ( I teach writing) was whether, in fact, Forrest King was a Conservative Republican. After reading the article posted by MadDem, I am convinced of it. First, were he not, local conservatives who know him would destroy him; second, he sounds like an old-style, honest, decent Conservative, the kind we really had to worry about (because they were decent and thoughtful and - well, think of Bill Moyers speech where he said you needed two wings for an eagle - now that is polished and authentic) but weren't afraid of.
edit: typo
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Thanks for doing the research
Forrest King is a real mensch. I don't know any other word that best describes such a person. Kudos to him for contacting the national party committees when the bureaucracy was no help.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. Just wait, FEMA / Republican Catch-22 going to hit
Just wait. Those bitter uncompassionate Republicans will hit people with all kinds of Catch-22s (they already have). The one I am fearing in this context is the idea that gay couples can't apply as a household, but I'll bet that if they apply separately some Republican FEMA functionary paid to find problems instead of help will latch onto the fantasy that some kind of fraud is going down and will find a way to deny them assistance.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
49. Dem Action, not Republican Words (nt)
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
51. Don't be so hard on those of us who are skeptical. I receive these
right wing emails about Democratic abuses all the time and have to research and debunk them. I maintain a political email list and distribute factual examples of Republican abuses. I have never been caught in a factual error.

I would dearly love to print and distribute this story, but I can't until I verify that it is absolutely true.

The Time piece doesn't verify all of the aspects of the OP and neither does the Bay Window piece, although both combined contain all the elements.

Monday I will call Senator Kennedy's office for verification and if I receive it will blast this story all over the email lists.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. After reading the articles, and considering
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 11:35 AM by tomg
the work you do in disseminating information ( thanks, incidentally), scepticism is a very reasonable position for you to take. The thing I would be cautious about is the comment that Mr. King is a conservative Republican, (self-described?). No question that he is a great guy, regardless of his politics. Above I said I was convinced he was, but that is a gut reaction. You have, obviously, a necessarily higher standard. It really could be a problem if he isn't, and you know that the right would jump over that to invalidate the greater point. Again, thanks for the work you are doing.

edit: another damn typo
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
71. The "right" will jump on everything the DNC does. So will the left.
I have very high standards, but I do know what a political blog should be....political.

Let the right jump on us. They will do it anyway.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #71
87. Spot on!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. I question the way it was jumped on.
There are all kinds of political things at the blog, of course there are. However, this was actually written quite sensibly. It just told the story of what the staff person did and did not try to explain all the side issue.

Several reasons questioning it bothers me, at least the way it is done:

First, I taught writing skills for years before I retired. That is exactly the type of essay that would bring 6 of 6 or 5 of 6 points on the Florida FCAT writing test. I was surprised to see people so skeptical.

Secondly, I don't post crap here. I never have. If they are questioning the blog post they are questioning me for posting it here and other members of the DNC who were understanding what the story was about.

And last, the ones saying why did he call a political party are just simply clueless as to what is going on with the evacuees. We have friends who took in a family, and the problems with getting medical care for them are unbelievable. Doctors refuse them, hospitals turn them away for various reasons.

Ambulances cost huge bucks now. The last time I had to call for one, several years ago when my mom died....it was about 300 dollars. You call, you pay. People seem to think that everyone gets treatment now no matter how poor or how gay or whatever their circumstances. They do not. Not anymore.

You appear to be the one who gets to decide if what I posted is true or not true. Real or not real. That is an awesome responsibility, my friend. I hope you are up to it. And Kimberly Hunter of the DNC hopes you are up to it as well.

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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Hi MadFloridian. Like you,
I teach writing, and I find the post authentic. At the same time, I can understand,and actually applaud, some of the scepticism. Most people aren't really aware of what goes into a crafted piece of writing that is targetted toward a specific audience. Therefore, when they see something that is so emotionally wrenching ( and politically satisfying) and almost falls into a traditional "conversion pattern" ( Conservative Republican was lost but now is found), they are going to be sceptical. Unfortunately, it isn't that far from scepticism ( in the classical sense) to "it must be false." Stuff like this needs to be subject to scrutiny at a place like DU (I think), not because it invalidates it, but because it serves ( by and large) to make the case for it stronger ( if it survives, which, I think, this will) or because it is debunked. This actually has legs beyond Democrats.org
Likewise, it could easily ( well, not easily) be altered with some subtle editing into a diatribe against the failure of "big" government and the need for individuals to step up. As a writing teacher, you know that ( again, tough sell, but not impossible).
FlaminLib runs an e-mail list, and if this proves true, will spread it with the knowledge that it is accurate. That is a pretty intense responsibility. She or he really has a higher standard, and the existence of this discussion on this issue on this board, I think, really helps us all. Actually, I find it pretty cool that a lot of people on this thread are also teachers or texts analysts.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. One person does not define all truth. Sorry, some truth is political.
I posted what I read at the political blog called Kicking Ass. The DNC blog. It is required to be true, which it is. It is NOT required to be apolitical.

In fact, I think I heard she was an assistant director of communications.

The blog is the blog at the DNC. It is called Kicking Ass. It should be kicking ass every day.

I question everything. If you have ever read my posts, I question. I argue with people on the left and I question those on the right of the party.

One person should not set themselves up as defining truth.

It is ok, though, I found out what is going on here. I was critical of some things the other day, and chickens do come home to roost. I can take it, but I hate to see this happening where we don't even want our Democrats to fight hard and put it all out there.

I think a lot of it is about me, or so I was told. Kimberly Hunter will be vindicated, and it does not matter whether I am or not.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. All I was saying is that I can
understand some people being sceptical ( I am not, obviously). I am certainly not suggesting that a political blog should be apolitical. Of course the right is going to be all over everything. That is what they do, and they do it pretty damn well. Have ever since Richard Vigurie figured out mailing lists in the 1970s. I also agree that the DNC blog is going to be pretty thoroughly vetted. I also think that bringing an editorial/ opinion piece/ anecdotal life writing ( whatever genre) to DU is a great thing to do ( seriously, thanks).
With that said, I also think that to view something like this sceptically ( although I am not personally sceptical of it) in a forum like this ( choir say hi to the preacher; preacher say hi to the choir) can be very healthy. For example, most criticisms had to do with the polish. Many people in reading this make a connection between "polish" and "inauthenticity" and "roughness" and "authenticity." I don't agree with it, but it is part and parcel of the Will Rogers, "plainspokenness" schtick. My God, it is a very strong strain in American political stump speeches ( too often we forget the beautiful eloquence, that which really moves us). Well, if some at DU make that connection, what about those not in the choir. It is an issue of style. That's all. And to recognize that it is style and not content is a good thing to know ( conversely, I am not suggesting rhetorically dumbing down what is a very moving piece of writing). The other is the "too good to be true." It really does look that way, but as I said, in another post, sometimes really cool stuff happens ( Barbara Bush's comments, like that pig Bennett's comments simply and verbally unmask them).
I am only talking about style and that - rhetorically - scepticism can be valid. I do read your posts. I like them. Like you,
I am very far left, and have been for for almost forty years ( in fact, read my post at Democrats.org. Same handle). I'm not knocking you in any way. I am certainly not setting myself as "defining truth." Again, thanks for bringing this piece to our attention. It lead me to Democrats.org
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. Judging from their own polished style,
from the word go, the people expressing scepticism have not been such as might be expected to be unworldy and naive enough to make an absolute connection between authenticity and a colloquial style.

Indeed, whatever your personal credentials and integrity, you seem to entirely overlook the fact that neocon opeatives routinely throw cold water on any kind of productive output on this board.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #88
102. You are probably right about overlooking
neo-cons. Since some of the people posting were writing teachers and text analysts, I was just making some comments about why - stylistically - there could be a level of scepticism. For someone who prides himself on being sceptical about some things ( again, though, not about this post which I personally found authentic from the start), I guess I am pretty naive as to the presence of neocon operatives. Thanks for heads up.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #88
107. It took me a half minute to find supporting citations
When someone wants to shit on a parade, it is probably helpful to do a little fact checking first, especially if you aver that you support a progressive agenda.

I read the article, read the suspicious comments, did a little research, and BOB's YER UNCLE, came up with two articles supporting the original post. How tough is that to do, prior to shitting in the punch??? Not very...I know, I did it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #107
140. Well, you have to be a good reader.
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 02:43 AM by sfexpat2000
And no, you probably didn't "do" it.

Do you have any idea -- no you don't.

But please feel free to litter this thread with your bravest off topic blasphemies. Maybe someone will react to them, - predictable as they are.

:rofl:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #140
163. I am unable to understand what you are saying
Your post makes no sense at all.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #163
168. To you. Try this:
Edited on Mon Oct-03-05 12:07 AM by sfexpat2000
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousnous." -- George Orwell
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #107
157. No you didn't
The two articles are about Mr King taking in a lesbian couple, no mention of him seeking treatment for a sick woman. I was unable to find any reference to that specific, outside of the DNC original and a couple of copy and pastes. There is no "proof" at this time, only some people's wishful thinking.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #157
162. Hey, reading is fundamental, you should try it sometime
Not only are you argumentative without focus or justification, you are WRONG.

The sick woman's name is GERTRUDE--she has diabetes and altzheimers. Read the entire article that I cited in Post 41, and read it carefully--once you see that name, start paying attention. It documents Mr. King's difficulty in getting care through FEMA and MEMA, and how Mitt Romney's office blew him off.

Here, let me make it EASY for you:

After loading up the car the family sped to a nursing home where Gertrude Hoo, Yolanda's 72-year-old mother, had been living. Gertrude has Alzheimer's and diabetes, and she was completely dependent on her daughter to get her to safety.....

Yolanda and the rest of the family flew up to Attleboro and moved into a section of the house with its own kitchen and bathroom (Gertrude was moved to a nearby nursing home, thanks in no small part to advocacy by King on Gertrude's behalf). ....


...As the Meehan-Hoos worked to establish some measure of normalcy, enrolling their children in the local school system and making sure Gertrude is being taken care of, King has taken it upon himself to advocate on their behalf with FEMA, as well as with its state equivalent, MEMA, and the MassHealth program. He said every time he let someone in the bureaucracy know he was calling on behalf of a same-sex couple he suddenly met resistance. He asked Governor Mitt Romney's office to help him access support from FEMA and MEMA, and claims a man named Dan in constituent services told him that the Meehan-Hoos's marriage was not even valid under state law. The man cited a 1913 law that the state has used to deny marriage licenses to out-of-state couples and said that the couple had invalidated their marriage by moving to Louisiana. The governor's office did not return a call requesting comment, but Michelle Granda, an attorney for Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders (GLAD) said the 1913 law does not apply to couples who marry while residing in Massachusetts, and it does not invalidate the marriages of Bay Staters who move out of state.

...King has taken such an active role in advocating for the couple that he said he declined to tell them about some of the difficulties he has faced in getting them access to relief services...."I don't think people in dire straits need to have more heaped on them. I've told Jan and Yolanda there are things I'm dealing with that they shouldn't have to deal with," said King.

There's your precious proof, right there in the post 41 cite. Sheesh...I won't hold my breath for your mea culpa.










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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #77
98. Just a suggestion:
It is much easier to read longish texts online when the writer double-spaces between paragraphs.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Thanks. I keep thinking I'm indenting, but
they don't show up.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #69
135. What is really weird to me is that I asked an honest question
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 02:07 AM by sfexpat2000
and you seem to have all these conspiracy theories about it.

"I think a lot of it is about me."

:eyes:

And who attacked Hunter?

:shrug:
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #68
108. Good points. And there are many here who need to be sure of accuracy.
Those of us who take what we read here out into the world in conversations, emails, other boards, perhaps political writing (which I work on for local campaigns) had better well be damn sure that the quotes, examples, anecdotes that we use are 100% accurate, because there is always someone ready to discredit them if they are not.

And it is not one's personal "face" that is at stake, but the discrediting and undermining of the larger ideological position - that Government exists to serve the people and assure the Common Good, for instance.

That is worth a bit of skepticism and fact-checking before taking an anecdote from this board out into the world.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. Perhaps the GOP needs to remember that government serves us.
Your paragraph made me put this on.
:tinfoilhat:

"And it is not one's personal "face" that is at stake, but the discrediting and undermining of the larger ideological position - that Government exists to serve the people and assure the Common Good, for instance."



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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. Perhaps I am unclear
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 09:57 PM by kenzee13
I often am, I'm sure - trying to condense too much into a few words.

It is my position that Government exists to serve the common good. And it seems to me that historically, the Democratic Party embodies that to a far greater degree than the Republican Party. This story is a great example of that very principle - especially sweet because the person turning to "government" is a Republican in the story.

My point was that if we use an example that demonstrates our ideological position, and it turns out to be false, the opposition seizes on that to undermine the entire premise that Government does, indeed, exist to serve us. Which is why it is important to be accurate if one takes an example learned on this board out into the Public - which I often do.

Wanting more verification is in no way a slur on you as the original poster - you posted from a legitimate source and expressed a very legitimate satisfaction that the Dems in the story acted like human beings and Public Servants and not with the indifferent Feudal Overlords attitudes of the Republicans. That's a satisfaction I share.

My skepticism - and I think the skepticism of the others - was simply wanting an other than demonstrably partisan source. In addition to anything else, one would wish, after Dan Rather, to be sure that one was not being set up before repeating the story in less friendly arenas.

(one word edit for grammatical error)

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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. The Dan Rather reference is
appropriate, I think ( not for the post from Democrat.org but generally speaking to keep in the back of our minds). Incidentally, the reference to Rather as "set up" caused me to check your profile on a hunch. We share the same Representative, and it was Maurice who first suggested that Dan Rather was deliberately sand bagged.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #117
152. Maurice is a gem
I am actually in "Sherry" Boehlert's district.

He's considered a "moderate" R...I'd like to see a (real) D in there but he's been pretty well liked and has been overall pretty supportive on RR issues, per issues page on Project Vote Smart. I think people are afraid of getting someone far worse if they stir the pot. I will say that when I wrote to him in support of the horse-slaughter ban bill in the House, I actually recieved a letter about the issue back (he's on the good side of that one) - not just a form "thank you for writing" letter, which is all I ever get from Hillary's office.

Maurice is, to my mind, a prime example of a Progressive being able to win in a heavily Red district and can be held up as an example in objection to the "R-lite" Dems who claim to have to "move to the center" to win.

Happy to see another DUer around here - I know of only one other, out Owego way.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #113
118. Oh, yeah. That partisan thingy again.
Invoking Dan Rather..

Well, don't look at me. I am very partisan, and I just bet some heads are popping open on the other side of the net this week.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
56. There's one part I certainly believe . . .
. . . Ted Kennedy's office helped solve the problem. He has always hired excellent staffers.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. He really has. Sen. Kennedy has had a lot of former staffers
go on to real positions of power and authority in the country. He has an excellent eye for talent.

And, if you will forgive a bit of home state touting, it is interesting that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, so often derided as out-of-touch and too liberal and it's most famous liberal legislator, Teddy Kennedy, were able to provide direct and quick action that solved a problem quickly. I am proud of my senior Senator, his great staff and the good people of the Commonwealth for helping first and putting any politics aside. That is what MA does, when it is functioning correctly.

Thanks Uncle Ted, you do us proud sir.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
76. My former campaign manager worked in his office for a time.
:D She was a good campaign manager.
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
61. Democrats care about people
Republicans care about profits.

This woman has no value because she has no money - she just drains resources that should be used by people who can pay for them. There is no profit in helping her, so why should they? After all, even the Bible places a price tag on people.

Democrats see that people have a value that can't be measured in dollars...
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
89. "After all, even the Bible
places a price tag on people".

I'm not familiar with the passage or passages of Christian scripture you have in mind. Could you please cite one for me?
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #89
132. Leviticus 27:1-7
"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the Lord by thy estimation. And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above, if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female, ten shekels"

I'm worth fifty silver shekels!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #132
155. I can't say I really understand that passage.
Does it mean that some Israelites might offer themselves or a dependent for the service of the temple/priests, and could only be released in exchange for the payment of a certain sum? I can't imagine what else it could mean. Or simply a sacrifice representing a spiritual commitment, as in Christ's Presentation in the Temple.

Still, I trust that when you said, "After all, even the Bible places a price tag on people", you were being satirical about the obtusely unspiritual way in which the "fundies" are wont to interpret Christian scripture, because, whatever the case, the "scale of charges" was evidently a practical measure to take account of the person's ability to pay, or a measure of their potential economic worth, hazardous as survival to adulthood might be.

It is the sacrifice/ransom that is the significant concept, just as when Jesus was presented in the Temple by Mary and Joseph, as a poor couple, they were obliged to give a pair of turtle doves, rather than a lamb. Lev. 12.8. It was anything but an equation of economic worth with spiritual worth, which latter of course, is the only positive significant worth of human beings. Indeed, the rich man and the poor man are repeatedly referred to in the Old Testament, in apposition, as - I won't say "personifying", but "emblemising", respectively, the wicked, and the virtuous - the true Israel. A rough and ready measure of spiritual worth, but essentially, having significant validity. We know that God chose the poor to be rich in faith. "Where your treasure is, there your heart is".

There are, of course, many ostensibly pious church-goers who hope to have the best of both worlds - in spite of Father Abrahams's words to the rich man in the parable of Lazarus. That won't happen. And I count myself, in spiritual terms, among the rich, since I have a kind of worldly of intelligence.

Assuming we make it there, Heaven, of course, will be a place where any regrets will be behind us, but were I to find myself exalted above any homeless person, the way I feel now, Id' be gutted that I had so misunderstood my God. He'd sure need some persuasive arguments to get round me...

It is not that our status will be inverted in the next life. Just that the scales will be removed from our eyes, and we'll see who the real hot-shots were, all the time. And we just couldn't see it.


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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
64. Maybe we've become cynical because we have heard this before.
Like during The Chimp's State of the Mess Addresses when he is fawning all over the families he brings in for show.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Gotcha...don't be political.
We don't want to capitalize on their mistakes now, do we? That would not be nice, would it?

Let's just let the thread take its course. I know what is going on now. Interesting to watch.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #70
142. Oh geeze. Why is it a good idea not to "be political"?
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 02:50 AM by sfexpat2000
As in, not attend to the "polity" or the people?

Nice? Please. That's the GOP flag waving: not to know that "political" means, involving the people.

Geeze.

And I have to wonder, where you get the break to "watch". One of the bluest cities in our country was just decimated. And all we could do was watch the genocide on tv. And you are "watching"?

That's interesting.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
79. Be he Democrat or Republican, I'd be proud to shake Mr. King's hand
This guy is American with a capital "A". :thumbsup:

Geez. Now I'm getting all verklempt about it... :cry:
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. I love yiddish!
And verklempt is something I do very well!
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
91. Good work
Glad to hear it. There are still some really good people out there.

O8) :loveya: :cry: :pals:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
92. How beautiful, sad and warming
This is one of the many reason's why I love being a democrat. We don't care whom you are but we'll help you and try our best. This is a beautiful story. :loveya:
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
103. This was NOT a suprising story, and I wanted to thank you MF
for sharing it with all of us here. I agree with you that those who instantly cried foul have some soul searching to do as to what they trully care about. Your history on this board is proof positive that leaves one with no doubt about this story being factual.

This is NOT a school house that I am aware of, it is a Democratic site that gives one a feeling of family that many other sites on this net lack.

To play that game of such an account being pure propaganda and questionable as to its authenticity is nothing short of what those at the site that shall remain nameless do for some sick past time that seems to amuse them so much...

To be honest, differences should be encouraged and enjoyed, democracy at it's finest, but the outright hostility and stunned amusement that some displayed at such a tale being fake was very telling if you ask me for I have seen such tactics used in another void in an effort to once again malign and discredit the Dem party
since it seems thats all the can do when faced with having to silence the truth that have no wish being aired so publicaly..

Bottom line, this is a Dem site, if one wishes to instantly accuse the Dem partys good deeds of falseness without FIRST being sure of thier own accusations, then it simply shows what they are used to doing, attack, smear and sneer, and that in itself is how the GOP has operated for longer than I care to think about..

Sorry for the long rant, but reading so many on other sites bragging about being on this particular site with over a thousand posts and never being detected, it does make one supiscous of such motives as those displayed on this thread...

Again, it was a beautiful story of human kindness and caring which had NOTHING to do with personal gain be it material or monetary, that in itself speaks volumes about those that call themselves Democrats.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. Thank you so much, and I have read those things other places as well.
Even if it had a tinge of the political, that is ok, too. After all it is at the Kicking Ass blog. So that would be ok.

One of my underlying themes here and anywhere I post, is that the rebuilding of the party is going to be accompanied by attempts to tear it down.

It is going to come from both ends of spectrum. There is nothing wrong with criticizing our leaders. We all need to do that. I do it.

However there is a mocking tone now, one that is disturbing. Making fun of our Democrats is different than constructively criticizing.
I did get the message that a lot of the stuff in this thread is because I was outspoken the other day. I understand that and handle it. However the total disbelief expressed by some over a moving story is very suspect.

:hi:
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. It was the mocking tone that was very visable in some posts that
I read, a much better description than I used and the very reason that my radar detector began blinking rapidly.

Such scenes are bound to begin in earnest considering the very bad press the GOP is finally receiving even if it is given in small amounts, it is still more than we have received for quite some time..

Individual posters on this board need to rethink themselves when they decide to post such attacks on anything Democratic and believe themselves to be only expressing their rights to free speech..

Its damaging and uncalled for in a time when more unity if required if one trully wishes to change the present political climate which is fast becoming destructive enough that it might take decades before our country can find itself once again, "A nation for the people, by the people..."

We need to hold hands tightly and close ranks even more so to prevent undesirables who wish nothing more than to destroy this party from entering it's sacred inner core...

Even if some had a need to vent back at you personaly, it is still NO excuse to knowningly drive another nail in a coffin the Republican party wishes the Democratic party to be encased in that has finally been allowed ajar enough to see a bit of light...

Enough already with the bad press from our own, we have seen enough of that to last us a lifetime from those outside our precious party..

Your input on this board is needed, I personaly have no wish to see those posters of which I include you be so ridiculed by aiding us in showing what this party does consist of dispite some Dem leaders being questionable as to their true loyalty, we are Democrats, proud of such and will continue to fight for justice, even if it means we must rid ourselves of some individuals who have proven themselves to be dead weight..

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #109
134. Have you read this thread? n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #103
110. See my post above
I basically said google first, crap on the post later. It takes two minutes, at most! It literally took me seconds to come up with the Time article and the Bay Windows piece with the pic of the guy.

But hey, naysaying is food to some. Why, I have no idea.

I have no dog in this fight, I am not from New Orleans, know no one affected by the hurricane/flood, am not gay, and do not hang out with reformed conservatives. But I do know folks in Attleboro, MA, and they are swell people....so I checked.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. I have no personal interest either other than on a humitarian aspect.
And I did read your post and appreciated your input in what you added to the Op's story. One of the things I love most about this site besides the family style unity amongst some is the need for posting facts and not half truths.

In this particular Ops case, I needed no more validation than seeing who posted this article to know it contained factual material, many times I share this site with others and more often than not because it strives for truth.

Knowing there are some who post first and search for validation after, I await more experienced Du ers to offer such before using it for debate in other areas...

This is a great board to be a member of, but even in families, you have to put up with undesirables meaning those that wish to cause nothing more than turmoil, those type for whatever reason do enjoying doing such, I know it doesn't always mean they are a troll, but I hope they realize that in effect, when they behave such, they become part of the problem and does not aid in finding a solution..

As do you, I know people up in that area so it was no suprise to hear of such an individual acting in such a manner...

And your right, if one finds something not right in another's tale, its fairly easy enough to attempt to check up its factual side for oneself without ridiculing the Op's post as being nothing more than a fairy tale, laziness if you ask me and pretty rude...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #110
137. It's simple, MADem.


"Crap on the post"? Wow. I have to ask, how low is your standard becoming for honest questions being asked.

'Naysaying"? I guess I want to tediously ask, is it okay to ask a question here?

Think about that.

Or maybe, none of us should EVER try to question anything?

Let me know.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #103
125. I think you need to reread what I wrote because your wild claims
bear no resemblance to anything I said.

And, how long would you stay on DU if you couldn't ask an honest question?

Frankly, when people censor me, I don't care what initials they have behind their names.

Geezus.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #125
129. No one was talking about you at all.
Don't be so sensitive.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #129
131. Do you habitually tell other people how they should behave?
And, why is it appropriate for you to intervene in my conversation with someone else?

:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #131
153. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #153
158. I don't think so
He (and I and others) are merely stating the obvious, the incident may not be 100% accurate. Wishing it is doesn't make it so.

Is everyone who disagrees with you an Agent Provocatuer? Is not a message board a place to state one's opinion? There is no room in the Democratic Party for differences of opinion? If not, doesn't that put us on the same level as the republicans?

Its fine by me if some people get a feel-good affirmation from the story. It should also be fine if some people are skeptical of the story, since it is unsubstantiated. For some insane reason, the former are acting very threatened by the latter, and are now even resorting to name-calling. Get a grip on yourselves.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #103
147. I was glad to hear about human kindness from the rank and file
Republicans. I know Christians who have bought into the Republican lies but who go out of their way to help people.

I was also glad to see Sen. Kennedy given credit for just one of the many, many good deeds he has quietly done in his life. He helped me and would not have survived if had to depend on my own Congresspersons. I read a Washington Post story online written a few years ago that Sen. Kennedy has 3 times the CASEWORKER staff of most Congresspersons and I think he pays their salary with his own money.

Sen. Kennedy is one of the few Congresspersons who care about all Americans with problems and not just his constituents. Sen. Kennedy is a national treasure. When I first started reading newspapers in the 1960s I remember even then Medicare was such a big issue for him that I thought he had originated Medicare. I think Sen. Kennedy through both his personal acts and legislation has helped more people get medical care and survival help than any other person I can think of - Roslyn Carter writes in FIRST LADY FROM PLAINS how she and Sen. Kennedy worked so hard for four years to study and improve the Mental Health Care System and the Act they helped to pass was funded for one year that Reagan/Bush senior couldn't touch but as soon as they could they violated THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS ACT by refusing to fund it. Compassionate conservatism in action. We must find a way to let the decent people who mistakenly think that Republican Party stands for moral values.

Pugs have good propaganda but are into exterminating "useless eaters" and Katrina has shown this to everyone in America but the media is not reporting on the fact that the Red Cross is not spending the $1 Billion raised to help anyone and the people in the American Gulf are not getting any help from this bush regime and Red Cross was asked to leave DeKalb because they were obstructing the humanitarian aid. Please write to the media and ask them to report on this continuing shame which this DU article is only one story of the refusal to help Americans and even stealing the money raised for Katrina victims (as well as their land and the FEMA camps with evacuees under armed guard and "disappeared" evacuees -- MSM must be pressured to report.
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
146. They used to label us "bleeding heart" liberals in the earlier
days of trying to discredit liberals, to make liberal a virtual 4 letter word.

What did it mean, what were they ridiculing?

It is the same thing they pick on President Clinton for: saying and acting on being able to have empathy, "feeling your pain."

Throughout the nation in the aftermath of Katrina, we've certainly heard so much more from the liberal, progressive, Democratic people than from the conservative.

Oh so many actors, musicians etc that the radical right sought to demonize in recent years are the ones coming out to help directly or help in the call for help.

It is odd to write about this as if tooting our own horn, as this seems like the natural HUMAN reaction. Empathy, helping, compassion.

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
154. DU's self-congratulatory reaction is total BS!
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 09:07 AM by paineinthearse
As a resident of Massachusetts I subscribe to Senator Kennedy's newsletter and post them regularly in GDP.

DU needs to tone down its self-congratulation, at least long enough to read this post - Senator Kennedy: Responsibly Rebuilding the Gulf Coast - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ... and ponder why it has a history of not supporting my Senior Senator's work.

It received zero response. Prior posts may have received one or two comments, at most.

I am posting again in GDP to give all another chance to thank the Senator.
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #154
165. I got the same newsletter, don't live in Mass. and have been
a supporter of your Sr Senator for decades.

I even contributed in the last month to his election campaign, because as he states he is likely to be a target of the Repubs.

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #165
170. Zero responses still
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
159. Cynism is not a virtue. It's a fault and nothing to be proud of.
It means a part of you inside has died, you know the part that believes in the best in people, looks for the good before the bad. Cynisism, like sarcasm, is worn like a badge by some and they model it as some sort of intellecual prize. It's not. It's a weakness.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. Gullibility is not a virtue either n/t
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
161. Marking for retrieval . . .nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
166. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-05 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
169. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
171. absolutely DO NOT understand why many of the comments became
an 'attack each other' fest

so some people have questions and want proof?? then answer the questions and provide the proof......

IF you want to use this to expose 'evil republican policies', DON'T YOU THINK republicans would massively question the whole thing???

.....be grateful some people question so the answers are ready and available to everyone

I think everyone is super freaked out after so many years and horrible effects of bushco......maybe we could all calm down a bit and not immediately attack everyone who doesn't see everything precisely the same way we do

BTW, wasn't sfexpat2000 a major DU activist for Andy?????? if so, the DUer does not deserve reflexive attacks

and madfloridian is a major DUer who's posted many good things

so we don't need to attack-kill each other......the RW is more than happy to let us
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #171
172. I think there is more going on than questioning. .
This is far more than just questioning what I posted. I think others are aware as well. It does not bother me.

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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
173. Leave it to DU
To turn a beautiful story into a battle. I knew I should have just stopped at reading the story.

Oh well, good for all those who did the right thing and boo on all those who just like to hear themselves speak.
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