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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:20 PM
Original message
Am I Missing Something About Steroids?
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 03:21 PM by renie408
I was just watching McCain being passionate about steroid use because kids are going to want to use steroids and they might commit suicide.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think steroid use is a good thing...but isn't the youth of this country facing some other stuff that might be a little more important? And if you are worried about a substance being put into a kid's body, what about alcohol?
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MemphisTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Forget the roids and alcohol
what about meth? It's cheap and kids seem to be in love with this drug.
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Oreo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It worked for the "Angel Hostage" in Atlanta
Meth is all the rage nowadays for befriending your kidnapper.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yep....
I'll go with that or with any street drug.

Steroids?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hey! Leave me and my street drugs alone...
Let'em keep going on about steroids. That way, they leave us dope fiends to our own devices :evilgrin:
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Some other bad things for your kids:
mercury poisoning
arsenic poisoning
global warming
species extinctions
declining life expectancies
endless war
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Steroid use is actually pretty prevalent in high school athletics.
You can get them easily and they aren't usually getting any advice from a physician. I'd say it's a bigger problem than say, the shortage of free-range veal.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. actually, steroids do permanent damage
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 03:52 PM by sui generis
including organomegaly, hepatic and renal damage, blood vessel damage and calcification, adipose maldistribution, and other horrific irreversible changes equivalent to aging your body decades.

I'd rather my kid got drunk and stoned than turn into a juiced up gorilla with a steroid pooch, prognathous jaw and cystic acne and nylon fur on his back.

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, the East German women athletes are having terrible health
problems because the team doctors pumped them full of steroids to give them that competitive edge.

That being said, the problem is not so much steroid use as our absolute worship of athletic prowess and especially our worship of winners.

The media, coaches, and community leaders make winning at sports to be the be-all and end-all of the school experience. I bet your local paper features "high school athletes of the week" or at least has write-ups on the stars of the teams. It's almost impossible for a teen to get that kind of recognition any other way, except possibly by committing a crime.

The kids who make the All-State Football team are treated as heroes. The kids who make the All-State Choir or do well in the Westinghouse Science Fair are treated as geeks.

Given that warped cultural milieu, it's not surprising that kids take steroids.

Fix the culture, and you'll fix the problem.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. I always tell my kids...
"Which would you rather be? Bill Gates or O.J. Simpson??"
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Do you have.....
.... some credible links for that information? Because personally I think they are hysterical nonsense...

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You must be living in a vaccum...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You must believe..
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 04:35 PM by sendero
.... every unsubstantiated claim made by every "reefer madness" style anti-steroid mouthpiece.

Did you know there is not one, not a single medical study affirming the existence of "roid rage", yet everyone believes it.

I'm sure people who use steroids at length are damaging their bodies, I'm equally sure that most of the hype surrounding steroids is exactly that, hype.

IMHO, having studied this at length and knowing folks who have used steroids, they are like every other drug - they can be used and they can be abused. You can kill yourself with aspirin if you are a moron.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So there is no drug that is a problem, whew, do I feel better!
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Or..
.... all drugs are problems if misused. Take your pick.

But seriously, steroids get all kinds of BS press because people are pissed off that their precious baseball stats might get skewed.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Steroid use/misuse facts
can kill people, and permanently damage them.

See over multiple diseases aggravated by steroid misuse, including blindness, severe weakness in muscles (leading to death), cardiomyopathy, liver damage, etc.

Emedicine Search for "anabolic steroid"
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The two guys I know who had "roid rage" were colossal assholes before
they ever loaded up. Long before 'roids, they were aggressive, knee-jerk (I'd say bi-polar) thugs. I never saw them exhibiting 'roid rage (as it was described by officials); I just saw them being themselves.

mikey_the_rat
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Anyone familiar with the realities..
... will tell you exactly that. Asshole? Bigger asshole on steroids. Not exactly a surprise.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. i feel the dangers are overstated also
we have the same human body we have always had, when we see records being broken, we know very well it is because of advances in training and technology, and this does include the use of steroids if you want to fully enhance yr performance

i feel if ppl are fully aware of the risk, they should be free to reap the reward

they will anyway, but the current system is more abt learning how to lie & get away with what EVERYBODY is doing if they want to be a winner, & i don't know what message that sends

the whole anti-steriod shouting seems so hypocritical

:shrug:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Basically...
.. I just get annoyed at folks who think they can pass laws and step up enforcement and stop people from doing what they want to do with their own bodies.

Hasn't worked for pot, hasn't worked for any drug, but somehow people think it will work now. And people think that athletes with $100 million careers riding on their performance aren't going to seek every advantage they can.

That toothpaste is not going back in the tube. Baseball, football, NBA, Olympics, you name it, is RIFE with steroid use and people who can't accept it are just going to have exploding heads. Because it is not going away.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. well if my kid started using steroids
I'd show you how to put toothpaste back in the tube.

Steroids are for lazy sons of bitches who want an easy way to get big. They cheat at everything and if they're willing to lie about why they have unnaturally big, veiny quads then they'll probably lie about anything.

See avatar - you don't need juice to grow a body. The wings are fake though, in case you're wondering. They hide the tail and cloven hooves.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. What your kid does is your...
.... business. What adults do is not.

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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. credible links?
how about a medical education, for starters.

I guess what lay people think is hysterical is quite irrelevant.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. As if..
.... medical "conventional wisdom" hasn't been wrong a zillion times.

Fact is, most of the health risks claimed for steroids are only realistic for folks who abuse them continually for years.

We hear this crap all the time and the medical "community" hasn't much credibility with these sorts of things because they are as guilty as the government of crying wolf with absolutely no science to back up their claims.

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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. You asked -
sounds like you have a bit of bias going on here.

Let's bring it back around to the point of this thread:

1. I agree the government has better things to do than start regulating relatively less harmful drugs than heroin, crack, and meth.

2. I disagree with your dismissal of the medical community as not having much credibility. That's just a teensy bit divorced from reality. Maybe you were being hyperbolic.

You seem to be upset that the government is using medical facts about steroid abuse as a fact buffet, and blowing some of the entrees way out of proportion. I completely agree - that is a huge problem, but not a problem of the medical community. This government operates on fear. But the opposite of dismissing all "fear" mongering, is not to altogether deny facts and reality also. There are other physiological issues from use besides those arising from long term use, as I'm sure you are aware.

And since you like facts, the fact is that "continually for years" may just be a year or a year and a half, no time at all in gym land, and that's often enough to do permanent damage. As someone who works out every day myself, I know people all across the spectrum of use, abuse, longevity, and health, and without resorting to hyperbole, the fact that I observe is that all of them have both some form personality and/or physiological issues.

Steroids, even short term use, are a crutch, and I'm not afraid to label steroid use as dishonorable.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Im still waiting..
... for citations of credible medical studies. I've heard doctors spout bullshit many many times, and if you haven't you either didn't spot it or you haven't talked to many doctors.

As for your "psychological" stuff, that is even more ludicrous. Perhaps they were already crazy, and that is why they are taking steroids.

As I said, point me to some serious studies. And I stand by my assertion. ALMOST ANY DRUG can be abused to horrible effect.

"Causes abdominal bleeding that can result in death" Yes, take enough aspirin and you will die. Take enough steroids and you will die. Take enough water and you will die.

I never said there were no health risks associated with steroid use. I said they are reefer-madness overblown, and I stand by my statement.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I think I know you
I recognize the bullshit fighting style.

Anyway, since you weren't listening, I said I agree. Now what were you fighting about?

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. What do you mean..
.... you think you know me? Are you insinuating that I post here under another name? That you know me personally?

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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. personally
I'm being evil sendero - trying to get under your skin. :evilgrin:

Anyway, I think we mostly agree - plus my additional opinion is merely personal "disapproval" of steroid use, not mandatory pre-employment testing and roadblocks.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well...
... If I knew you personally, well I can't say it :)

Ok truce, we both moved some and that is fine. There are several bodybuilders who have died young and from acute organ failure, but generally it *seems* that these instances are more a result of misusing diuretics than hormones.

Fact is, I used to lift weights avidly (have a lot less time for that now) and considered using steroids for a time. I spent a considerable amount of time studying the issue and I came away with the belief that careful proper use is probably not likely to damage your health.

I decided against it anyway because I have an aversion to prison. :)
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Steroids damage POPULAR KIDS!!


That is why McCain is bat-sh*t over this.

Sports is the last bastion of the Right wing on Campuses.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. Got a point there
It's like the current fascination with meth, which has been destroying lives since the 1940s. The government really didn't care so much when the users were truckers and white trash on the West Coast. But by God, when middle-class kids in the Midwest started up (instead of just drinking themselves to death like good Americans), then it's a national crisis.
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springhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. I have a hard time with any senate or house committee..........
acting all indignant about anything when it is they who need to be investigated. Can't we get someone to investigate the reasons why they, especially the Republicans, who voted for a resolution for war and continue to support said venture when the reasons for going no longer exist. Investigate why they think it is legal to attack a defenseless country. Why was it okay to disarm and then attack. Boy how brave was that!

No, the corruption of these bodies is what really needs to be investigated. When I see McCain getting all in a tizzy about steroids, I just want to slap him and tell him what a hypocrite he really is.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. I've done steroids....
I suffered no long -term effects from them.You will find most female bodybuilders and even "Figure " contestants use them.I think the government has focused on steroids because they have failed so miserably at the real war on drugs.In my 25 years as an ER and ICU nurse,I have seen one patient with steroid-induced side effects,while I have seen countless thousands with cocaine,crack,heroin and other drug side effects(including death).
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. yes but
you typically won't find chronic health patients in ER and ICU for their chronic condition.

I do agree with you though - the renewed government focus is absurd in light of other drug problems.

As a medical pro though you do know there are long term effects from long term use, including heart valve endocarditis and even mechanical damage, congestive heart and other cardiomyopathy. While the tendency to those conditions in some cases may be pre-existing, the onset of them can be exacerbated by anabolic steroid abuse.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
23. union busting
That's the real aim of this IMHO. The players' unions are very strong (especially baseball*) so this is just a maneuver to weaken them and then the owners can make even more money.

*baseball owners were caught redhanded colluding to keep salaries down back in the 80's and the players union took full advantage of it, as they should.
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Liberaler Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Solution is simple!
Every sport in USA should adhere to IOC's doping regulations and have surprise tests at random interval. Both urine and blood tests.

First offense, automatic 2 year exclusion from the sport.
Second offense: Life exclusion.

That is what the rest of the world has to deal with in regards to doping.

For more information on how doping should be handled in USA, check World Anti-Doping Agency

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