Is an election like the Miss America Pageant?

[renie408]

I have been thinking about this since 2004. Is it about what a man stands for, or how personable and likable he is? Can a truly ugly guy get elected? Is it a combination of political substance and persona and how much does each component play a part? Is it about a message that strikes a nerve for most Americans and doesn't make them think too hard?

How much does what a man believes really mean when it comes to winning a national election?

[mindwalker_i]

1. More like Friends

How many people said, "I feel like I could just sit down with Bush and have a beer with him. Couldn't do that with Gore..." In 2004, I heard a guy say, "Kerry lives in a mansion in Massachusetts, Bush lives in a ranch in Texas. That says it all for me." People complained that Kerry's responses were too "nuanced." People we so glad Bush was there in 2001 because, "Gore would have thought and thought about it and about what to do."

The sad truth is that Americans don't think. They want everything handed to them on a silver platter. What percentage of TV shows or movies are complete filler - they don't present new ideas or challenge perceptions? I argued with a guy I worked with who said about movies that "he just wanted to be entertained."

On top of that, there's a palpable animosity against being intellectual. The concept of thinking through a problem carefully in order to solve it is one that far too many people are inherently uncomfortable with - they go with their gut feeling and expect their leaders to do the same.

Democracy only works if people are able to vote in their own best interests. Unfortunately the concept of "representative democracy" is embodied perfectly with Bush.

-mwalker

[renie408]

6. What they said...

I agree with you. Bush got elected Mr. Congeniality and, coincidentally, President of the United States. He is a front man. He is the affable face on the serial killer.

This all swivels back to that evil word...'electable'. Many Dems think this is an absolutely traitorous concept (usually the ones backing the least electable guy). But we cannot pretend that electability isn't becoming increasingly important. George Bush ISN'T a great political leader. But he IS eminently electable. And he has two terms that prove BOTH of those statements.

We have got to stop pretending that all that matters is what a man thinks. I HATE it. I HATE playing that game. But I am really, really afraid that if we don't, we are going to lose again in '08. SO, we need to quickly back the most electable guy who will also represent the interests of the majority of Democrats.

Now we just have to figure out who that is. I think the best '08 ticket will be some combination of Gore, Clark, Edwards or some guy I am not thinking about right now.

[NNadir]

2. Can a truly ugly guy get elected? Are you kidding?

George W. Bush is an ugly guy and he was once elected governor of Texas.

[renie408]

5. I don't think Bush is ugly.

And in some of his earlier pictures, he was an attractive young man. I think he is an amoral idiot, but that didn't seem to slow him down from being politically successful.

[NNadir]

17. I'm talking about his soul. He is the ugliest man I can imagine.

[renie408]

18. Can't argue with you there. n/t

[nine23]

3. Ewww...I can't get the swimsuit competition out of my mind now. Thanx.

[unless]

4. Welcome to the real world...

Now that you've opened your eyes, you can't close them again.

An ugly guy can get elected, but a cute guy who's not quite as great can beat him.

Geez, look at W and answer your question. He looks like he could be my dad's 3rd brother - I always had a heart-tug when I saw him until I realized how horrible he was. It was really really hard for me to vote for Kerry.

[Selatius]

7. My roommate thinks Bush is strong

This is what attracts him to Bush.

He praises Bush for going down to what was left of Biloxi because it showed that "I'm there for you" or something to that effect, and he said Kerry or Gore couldn't provide that.

It provides anecdotal evidence to the notion that a person would rather vote for a person who is strong but wrong than a person who is weak but right.

[renie408]

8. Which is why

I don't think Kucinich is electable. And also why I am getting beat to a pulp in the 'Kucinich in '08' thread.

[Selatius]

9. To be blunt: Kucinich doesn't "look" the part of president

However, to his credit, he has consistently stood up for the working class, and that has assured him a seat in the House for years. I hate to admit it, but it seems the only way my fellow neighbors would vote for Kucinich is if he looked like John F. Kennedy. You combine those looks and charisma with the kind of principles that Kucinich (or Bernie Sanders)possesses, and you've got yourself an unstoppable candidate.

[renie408]

12. If Kucinich could put on a Gore or Edwards suit...

he would be great. And I think it absolutely SUCKS that looks and personality play such a part, but they do. Why do you think Cheney wasn't at the top of the ticket even though pretty much everybody thinks he is running things? He looks evil and has the personality of a barracuda.

[snowbear]

10. *Gag*

How on earth can you handle bunking with someone like that Selatius??!? :puke:

[Selatius]

16. If there's anything I learned living in Mississippi, it's temperance

People just don't think: That's why. The thing is they, for some reason or another, have not examined critically what we were taught as kids, the propaganda if you will. Not everybody is so inquisitive as to search out the truth manually instead of simply sitting there and accepting what is given to them by the corporate news media.

I originally thought it was all correct, that Dems are for Big Brother and that Bush was the lesser of two evils. Of course, I was only a high school student in Mississippi. I became a leftist on my own through my own ability to think and reason.

I have to admit that I hold a little more respect for certain leftists than for others. The ones who become leftist through thought and reason are those I hold deep respect for. They did it on their own. They discovered it, and they worked towards it. I cannot say the same for those who are leftist simply because it was the predominating thing in their environment (en vogue) or because it was, for instance, the way their family has voted for generations. "My father and grandfather vote Republican, so I vote them as well." (tradition vs. self-discovery)

There will always be sociopaths and those who simply don't ask questions within the human population, and I don't think it can be addressed within my lifetime, and I've grown to accept that imperfection of humanity, but it's worth it to try to push humanity towards a position that is a little better than what is now, even if it's only just a little bit.

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. No, the average Miss America is smarter than Bush--and much better looking

And to WHOEVER said that Bush is attractive? Holy shit, are our standards for male looks that low? Antonio Banderas, good looking. Brad Pitt, good looking. George Clooney in his ER days, good looking. The young Julian Sands and the young Sting, yummy.

George Bush? Come on.....

[renie408]

13. I do not mean sexually attractive...

And I have seen pictures of Bush when he was younger where he looked less...like he does now. Bush is not ugly. In fact, when you think about it, he is just very average all the way around. But for a man his age who isn't in movies, I don't think he is unattractive. Until he opens his mouth.

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. Then what else is there? He's not ugly enough to make you lose your lunch?

We're obviously not looking at the same guy. Just looking at him makes me cringe. It's something in the eyes and the very weak mouth. Totally unattractive in either gender, all that weakness.

If you're looking for an attractive politico, Obama is a looker.

[renie408]

19. I am trying to look at him as if I know nothing about him...

and I don't think I would find him repellent or ugly if he were a friend of my mother's that I had just met. I am also not saying that I would want to do him, either.

[Bozita]

15. No. In the Miss America contest, they count all of the votes