Speculation on Novak's Walk-Off Insanity

[alcibiades_mystery]

So, here's how it went down, as I listen on Media Matters:

Carville: I'll tell you this. Bob...

Novak: James, just let me finish what I have to say. I know you hate to hear me (during this time, Carville is saying "Wow. Wow. Wow.")

Carville: He's gotta show these right wingers that he's got backbone, y'know. The Wall Street Journal editorial page is watching you. Show 'em you're tough.

Novak: Well I think that's bullshit, and I hate that. Just let it go.

At this point, Novak hesitates for a minute, then puts his hand on the table, then realizes what he's done, then gets up and walks off. So, what was it that set Novak off. Some people have speculated that it was staged because he was going to be asked about Plame. After watching the clip numerous times, I don't think so. Novak gets genuinely angry when Carville mentions the Wall Street Journal editorial page. More likely, I think, is that there is some subtext, some inside knowledge that Carville has (probably from Matalin) and that he sprung on Novak mid-show to produce a reaction. He got it.

Can we speculate on what that inside information could be, just as an exercise? I think it might be something like this: The conservative kooks at the WSJ Editorial Page think Novak rolled over on the Plame leak, and they are shunning him from the conservative social scene. That's why Novak had to come out with that asinine column last week, and that's why Carville says that he has to show them that he's "tough." They think he sang like a bird, so he has to "show these right wingers that he has backbone." It's probably the talk in these elite conservative circles that Novak is a coward and couldn't protect Rove and the President in the face of the Grand Jury investigation. And Novak knows it. This was possibly a sly personal shot at Novak. I don't really see how this seemingly innocuous statement by Carville could have produced such ire and panic for Novak otherwise. He actually looked like he was ready to hit Carville. Very interesting.

[Bethany Rockafella]

1. I agree.

As many times that Carville or Begala bumped heads with Novak on Crossfire, he never once stormed off the set or cursed. Novak is getting some heat!

[Bucky]

80. How can you say this man is drunk? Look at this perfectly sober picture

I'm not *hick* not... Why, why dat'sh nuffing but shlan-shlander

I oughta shlap you, you bald ol --pfff- can't think of the word

Shcrew dis, I'm, dammit, bullshit. I hate you Dad- I mean Carville

(bump. crash. thump) OWTCH! Goddammit who left this wall here?

[fighttheevilempire]

87. You hit the nail on the head...

C-Can't you tell he'sh had a few before the whole thing shtarted?

I totally loved Miles O'Brien's reaction on the daily show tonight. The rest of the CNN staff apparently couldnt figure out why he was still there to begin with. He's been nothing but a Repug hack, and now the repugs are abandoning him like rats from a sinking ship. It would then be no surprise he's sliding into alcoholism. He knows he's staring down at a bad outcome to this, no matter how it ends.

[Old_Fart]

135. "Novak is ugly"

He spews hate no matter how drunk he is.

[Kurovski]

155. Oh man, that's so funny it deserves a thread

all its own.

"Transcript of Novak meltdown reveals..."

heh!

[mountainvue]

165. What's that book on the table?

Is that Who's Who In America?

[gasperc]

120. The who's who book was on the interview desk

so Novak was probably sweating up a storm since he wrote that he got her name from that book, BUT HER NAMES NOT IN IT. The pressure was building, whether he planned to snap to get out of there or it became an opportunity is unclear. But the pressure is on. I like the theory that he sang like a bird in front of the Grand Jury and conservatives all around DC know it and he is on the outs.

Ungratefull bastards, he pulls their bacon out of the fire during the yellow-cake hysteria and now they want to tear him up.

[ballabosh]

134. She is in Who's Who

For the sake of accuracy, Valerie Plame's name IS in Who's Who, but only under the listing for Joseph Wilson as his wife. She does not have her own listing and is not identified as a CIA employee.

See my post in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1987345&mesg_id=1987345

[Sequoia]

146. Welcome to DU!

[ballabosh]

148. Thanks.

I've actually spent alot of time here, but only just started posting.

[krkaufman]

147. Well, her being in Who's Who makes IDing her as Joe Wilson's wife...

... is an even sillier defense than I previously thought.

[ballabosh]

149. Agreed (NT)

[revelhag]

153. Maybe Owner not Title

maybe he wasn't freaked out that is was "Who's Who" but by the actual book--as in whose book it was. say maybe something he misplaced that had notes scribbled in it and stuff.

[LiberalFighter]

163. I wonder how Novak put 2 and 2 together?

[ClintonTyree]

160. That's the way the Slugs operate..........

as long as you're a good little tool, they'll keep you around and make nice. If however, you should screw up and become a liability they do one of two things;
1. Give you a promotion or a medal if they think you'll be of further use to them or if you have the goods on them and want to keep you quiet.
2. Cut your reputation to shreds then socially and psychologically destroy you if they've deemed that you've wronged them or are of no further use.

It's the Republican way, folks! :hi: It just gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling inside, doesn't it? What a great group of "folks"! :grouphug:

[Auntie Bush]

166. What do you expect? Compassion?

[whistle]

2. What was it that set Novak off....I'll tell you what it was...he was drunk

....that's what it was. No excuses, the man violated policy about coming on the air under the influence and should be fired.

[Mike Niendorff]

4. that's how it looked to me, too.

MDN

[rateyes]

31. That was one of my first thoughts listening to him...

slurring his speech, the same way DeLay did last week during that press conference about stem-cell research---that guy was BOMBED.

[JPZenger]

113. Stewart: "He's Rotting from the Inside"

Some people may have missed Jon Stewart's best line last night about Novak, because he said it later in the program and quietly. Stewart said "He's rotting from the inside."

[One_of_8]

128. I heard that too

and think it's probably spot on.

[LiberalFighter]

164. Problem is that Novak slurs his speech a lot

Figured it was more because of his age.

[SharonRB]

49. I thought so, too

He seemed a bit off even for him.

[MADem]

70. Medicated, anyway

I agree with the original thesis. Novak makes his living on his right wing bonafides, and the arch conservatives are calling him out as a stoolie rat. Of course he is tense, that is his LIVELIHOOD on the line at this point, so of course he needs a little sumpin sumpin to calm him down. Whatever they gave him, though, took the governor off his "don't swear on TV" switch. And he, a devout converted Catholic...my, my~!

I think he is on some sort of prescribed med, myself. Maybe he took one too many....

As for CNN, this could be a total setup, and not a real surprise at all. They used to be good under Bipolar Ted, now they are an arm of the See Eye Eh~! (Remember the military intelligence officers serving as "interns" during the attack on Iraq? No one KNEW they were military at the time...I do not trust CNN in the US anymore...they are a bit better overseas, but still...)

Could be someone is giving Novak an out to get out of the spotlight for awhile. A network suspension would surely do the trick. Everyone would EXPECT him to lay low for a bit...

At this point, nothing would surprise me.

[frankly_fedup2]

90. Cool . . . an insider that is a DU Member. Now Mr. Novak will see

just how it feels to be iced out of their little clique. He's getting so old though. Is he in his 80's? Anyway, he has been slurring his speech for a long time. I just figured it was because he had too many teeth for his mouth. They seem like horse teeth.

I really miss Crossfire. I loved that show when they really debated the issues.

Poor Novak . . . he should have NEVER come out publicly against the war. Once he did that, it's like they have been after him ever since. He got in more trouble for that I think then outing Plame and then outing Rove as his source.

I had read this somewhere, but I cannot remember where, and I cannot find it, but I remember reading something about Karl Rove being fired from the first Bush regime. Seems he leaked out some classified information to a reporter. Two guesses on who the reporter was and what he did with the information.

Anyone else hear about Rove being fired by poppy Bush?

[melnjones]

100. Yup...

Rove supposedly leaked info to Novak is what they say, but of course Rove denies it still. That's all I know.

[frankly_fedup2]

138. I have searched all over the internet, Lexus Nexus, and cannot

find one thing about Karl Rove being fired by poppy Bush NOR any information about what position he held under poppy Bush. I know I read this somewhere.

Thanks for letting me know that someone else had heard of this too. I was starting to think I had just dreamed it up.

[GoBlue]

144. Don't know why

I googled 'rove novak bush sr' and got over 16000 hits. Most on the 1st page dealt with this allegation. Heres one from DUs own Will Pitt..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4004297

[frankly_fedup2]

168. You're right. I looked a while back and did not notice much; however,

it's everywhere like you said. There are some recent articles today . . . one in the New York Times. Thanks for the link.

[MADem]

140. I believe he is 74

No spring chicken, certainly. But not a total codger yet, either.

He 'slipped in the shower' a few months back and cracked his hip...that got him out of the way for a bit. He didn't have a hip replacement, and he seemed to be moving fairly well under his own steam, considering...

I still wonder if this wasn't cooked up (with CNN knowledge, not Carville's) to get him out of the limelight for a bit. Surely all he had to do is wait a bit longer, and James would have put in a REAL deep dig. JC's remark was pointed, but hardly anything new--he has always touted Novak as being a RW servant and stooge. The level of offense did not match the comments, at least on the surface. You have to wonder who at the WSJ has the knives out for Novak, and has been blasting him at cocktail parties! It has to be someone high up in the editorial page food chain, not a schmuck like, say, John (I knocked up my ex-girlfriend's daughter) Fund or one of those Opinion Journal turds. It's someone with a lot of juice, and he has been bitching fairly openly, I reckon.

Fascinating stuff, anyway...it'll all come out eventually. The Potomac Fever clowns just HAVE to talk--if you have good gossip, you have power.

[CAcyclist]

142. It's Referenced in the Movie Bush's Brain

I don't know the details though

[frankly_fedup2]

169. THAT'S IT!!! I remember watching the documentary on the Sundance

Channel. Now there are all kinds of articles . . . even one in the New York Times today.

What I don't get, or guess find it hard to understand, is the fact that almost everyone that is in Dubya's administration, played some role in the Reagan administration as well as poppy Bush's. It's as if they had to deal with Clinton for 8 years, which held them up 8 years from their ultimate goal (see PNAC), and now the plans are back in play. However, Dubya has Rove on his team whereas poppy Bush fired him. That is one I do not get. Why would Dubya trust a man that his father fired, when the rest of his administration consists mainly of men that his father trusted and had in his own administration.

[Kurovski]

156. And he should be fined by the FCC for his "bullshit."

[ooglymoogly]

157. that rule applies to only those not pushing

corporate media interests, not bushco heal clickers

[Kurovski]

159. It doesn't apply to cable, apparently.

It covers the public airwaves.

The real penalty for Novak's brand of bullshit is prison.

Excuse me, "alledged" bullshit.

[ooglymoogly]

174. yes...i was just being sarcastic about the crooked turn to the

extreme right of the fcc.

[Kurovski]

175. Yep. They really took off after Howard Stern

when he started calling George on his crap.

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. Sounds about right

I actually would not expect Carville would have hit much him that much on Plame - it's something he has downplayed.

[Cha]

12. Is carville's

wife involved in traitorgate?

[rateyes]

32. My thoughts exactly! Mary Matalin is in WHIG...

Carville had better be sure Mary's clean.

[Clark2008]

38. What is WHIG?

I'm assuming the first part is White House...

[rateyes]

39. White House Iraq Group. eom

[SharonRB]

50. Thanks, Clark

I didn't know either. Too many acronyms sometimes.

[MADem]

72. Check out one of those old episodes of K ST

The Clooney series featuring James and Mary that everyone dissed....(I enjoyed the hell out of it, it was very true to life).

It ended with Mary being under investigation; accused of being a leaker...

Is truth stranger than fiction, or is fiction actually truth?

[adadem]

5. Nail on the head n/t

[glitch]

6. Agreed.

Carville told him in subtext that everybody knows he squealed re Plame. That is going to be the way his role is played. No wonder he ran off.

[tsuki]

61. That is the first thing I thought with the backbone jab. eom

[movonne]

7. Well maybe it is all a plan...he swears and walks off the stage. I think

that cnn is getting a lot of heat from the public and this way they can let him go for using profanity and not because the public has put pressure on cnn...maybe!!

[Blue Belle]

11. It smaks of a Bill O'Reilly-esque "Martyr" stunt to me...

Novak is taking heat now... and what better way to raise sympathy ans side step the Valerie Plame question than get indignant with a Democrat? It's right out of the GOP play book! :eyes:

[Canuckistanian]

23. Don't think so

Novak has shown even more cowardice now. And sympathy? Gimme a break. Liberals know he's scum and now the conservatives think he's a squealer.
And you DO NOT do that to Dear Leader.

[Sequoia]

127. If it were the 1930's we'd find him in a car with a pigeon in his mouth

Or have I been watching too many black and white gangster movies?

[madeline_con]

65. Good call!

Thanks for that angle. Now, everyone's picking on the old man? Brilliant!

[samsingh]

94. swearing on TV will not go well with the right wing

what will we tell the children?

[frankly_fedup2]

170. Per the great commentator of the right, Sean Hannity, CNN should just

let it go and forget it, especially since the man has been with them since the beginning. Limpballs stated the next day that if Novak leaves CNN (and he should and go to FOX), then CNN will be 100% conservative free. Well, that could be a goal for us.

[windbreeze]

71. Agree

Wholeheartedly...Novak WAS warned that questions about Plame were coming up, and that he WAS going to be questioned, BEFORE he went on...how better to get out of the situation?...as I watched the video, I thought the whole thing looked awful deliberate...Carville went on, as though nothing had happened...and Novak played the situation like a fiddle..for all anyone knows...Novak knew CNN was tired of taking heat over his actions...and that his career was over...why not go out with a bang...poor baby...(sarcasm IS intended)and his words were slurred...
windbreeze

[mom cat]

112. And right after Bush shoots them the bird! I think they are all coming

unglued. I wonder if the White House pictures are talking back yet?

[Synnical]

8. Sounds plausible

Novak didn't seem truly angry to me, just rattled.

[tsuki]

Wouldn't you be rattled when you learned that you are about to

jettisoned to protect Rove?

[JDPriestly]

9. Good theory, alcibiades_mystery

[Beetwasher]

10. Definitely Plame Related

Something about his "backbone" and something that Carville knows is going to show up on the WSJ editorial page about Novak's said "backbone". Maybe they are going to slam him for ratting out Rove to Fitz or something. Yup, I think you're correct!

[Can o Beans]

13. For a grand laugh, watch it a second time and look at

the absolute smirking grin on Carville's face as Novakula waddles off stage. It's priceless. He knows that he got Bob good, and he suppresses a snicker, and you can tell he loves it.

[roguevalley]

34. Novak has said in print articles, such as the one in Vanity Fair,

that he LOATHES Carville. He CAN'T STAND being in the same room with him. No surprise that he exploded with James.

[EMAN51]

14. my spin

To me, it appeared Novak would have stayed, but when the host immediately returned his question to Carville, Nofacts believed he was disrespected since he could not complete his thought which he had not completed when interrupted by Carville. Yes, he clearly was pissed about Carville's statement, but the statement alone did not drive him off the set, it simply was he did not finish his comments and the host started up with Carville. Pretty hilarious anyway.

[dogman]

15. That was my take.

Why else would the backbone and RW editorial page comments set him off like that? If he flipped Rove, he's dead to them. His recent column was more outright lies to pretend he was honorable.

[meganmonkey]

16. Does he always talk all stuttery like that?

I don't have cable, don't watch much TV at all...What struck me in the clip from Media Matters was the way he couldn't articulate a sentence. Does he always talk like that? Maybe he was drunk (as others have speculated above), or just pissed off and imbalanced. I'd probably be pretty edgy if I were him...

[napi21]

55. Naw, he's always talks like that. I don't know about the drunk thing

either. Navak always has talked like he had a mouth full of mush.

Not that I'm going to say he's a good writer, but he has made a living at it for a long time. Allwritten journalists are usually poor speakers. I've watched lots of them on cspan, and their mind just doesn't seem to work quickly enough to be a TV personality.

Novak is no different!

[PresidentObama]

17. This was amazing.

If you all watched Crossfire, which I know you did, they got into verbal fights all the time. Carville would never let Novak talk, but thats just the type of person Carville is. Novak knows that. This was the funniest thing on Inside Politics, and on CNN that I have EVER seen. James Carville is a stand up guy for continuing on, even though Novak's a baby and can't handle a little comment.

[kentuck]

18. He's losing it...or he has lost it already...

He's starting to crack under all the pressure..?

[Goldmund]

19. That's a really good theory, yes

[Al-CIAda]

20. Compelling analysis, imo. nt

[Nomad559]

21. Video

You can download the video here

[DuaneBidoux]

158. How do you upload something on that site without "sending" it via an email

address? I seem to find it okay but the home page has you emailing it to someone instead of simply coming up with an address (as you did) that allows everyone to download.

[achtung_circus]

22. Mostly, however

the sense I got was that the "just let it go" comment was adressed by Novak TO Novak. That he recognized that he was on the edge and tried to talk himself down before deciding "fuck it".

I believe Novak is dead and he recognises it.

[cat starbuck]

77. I agree....

I thought he was telling himself to "Just let it go", too. Then he realized he'd said it out loud. I think Carville got him mad, then he freaked himself out with his reaction.

Then all that was left to do was leave.

I'll bet he had a good cry, later.

[proud patriot]

24. LOL , exactly

That's exactly what's behind it

[ellenfl]

25. never mind. eom

[EVDebs]

26. Novak and Miller are both CIA Operation Mockingbird "assets"

minus the "-ets" and since this is an illegal CIA domestic operation in the first place, guess who's going to be left out in the cold ?

Bwha-ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaaaahahhhhaaaahahahahah!

[scarletwoman]

42. Not Mockingbird. Novak is RNC/BFEE. Miller is JINSA/AIPAC/OSP/AEI.

Why would CIA "assets" conspire to blow the cover of a CIA operative? It's not logical.

There are many competing covert groups at work in the shadows, the CIA is NOT the only game in town -- especially with the PNAC crowd in power.

sw

[EVDebs]

53. Office of Special Plans and those 'at the top' in the CIA

who ARE politically connected to Bush and PNAC crowd.

BTW, the Opus Dei crowd like Novak (and Robert Hanssen, another traitor) have successfully infiltrated the CIA and FBI. Their loyalties aren't to the United States and the Constitution...but elsewhere.

Yes, Op Mockingbird because whoever wanted Plame outed did it from the inside. Illegally. Domestically.

[scarletwoman]

56. There are different factions in the CIA, of course.

But why would Tenet, the director of the CIA at the time of the Plame outing (is that not "at the top"?) file the original complaint with the DOJ if this was an inside CIA op? It doesn't make sense to me.

I think saying "CIA/Mockingbird" is an over-simplification. The White House, DOD and State Department were/are running their own parallel covert ops -- look at the indictments that just came down on OSP/PNAC guy Franklin.

And look at the all the Israel/PNAC/neocon links. Miller is a major player in THAT milieu, I don't see her as "Mockingbird" at all. She's part of a whole different stream of covert players. Not that this group wouldn't have its moles in the CIA, too, but calling her and Novak CIA players seems highly inaccurate to me.

As I said above, there are LOTS of different covert players at work here -- the CIA is not a single omnipotent entity that covers the entire range of secret ops in the bush cabal. And alot that's gone on in the last few years has been directly aimed at DISempowering the CIA.

sw

[EVDebs]

68. Scarlet, ask yourself who was running the CIA when Mockingbird was outed

Poppy. Speaking of 'milieu' most of the CIAs original cadre of leadership were Knights of Malta (Donovan, Casey, Colby, McCone, Angleton, Dulles...whew, want me to go on ?), a very loyal group to whom I might add. That was a question you'll have to answer for yourself.

[scarletwoman]

89. I understand what you're saying -- I am perhaps not making my point well.

I'll yield at this point -- not because I think you're completely correct, but because I haven't the time right now to outline my argument in better detail and I'd prefer to depart the field in peace.

Thank you for the exchange.

sw

[EVDebs]

137. I get your point but it's wrong. Compartmentalization ....

The CIA's Operation Mockingbird wouldn't let 'everybody' in on the payola, or we'd NEVER be able to trust anyone in our supposedly responsible free media.

When issues come to the fore that are just too much for the CIA et al to handle, they end up doing a Gary Webb on them.

To top it off, the CIA supposedly handles all the intelligence agencies budgeting, but any fool can see that if you want to do something off the books (read Tim Weiner's book Blank Check) you fund it through the military's intell items. They're doing so right now with Special Operations (think Task Force 121, a 'private army' if you will), that has no congressional oversight.

Again, think compartmentalization. Yet at the top, someone knows.

Your point that "there are LOTS of different covert players at work here -- the CIA is not a single omnipotent entity that covers the entire range of secret ops in the bush cabal. And alot that's gone on in the last few years has been directly aimed at DISempowering the CIA".

As a domestic illegal operation, not "lots of different covert players" will be held responsible. See Operation Mockingbird: CIA Media Manipulation

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_01_03_03_mockingbird.html

and ask yourself why, on breaking stories of huge importance (Iran-Contra, CIA and drugs, DSM, etc. etc.) don't your fractured disseminated intell players ever break ranks and tell the real story ? Ah, then there is still a power at the top...

Which is why Miller is sitting in prison today and not talking and why Novak, who knows he's being hung out to dry like Judy, is dissembling before our very eyes. Plausible denial and Operation Mockingbird if you apply Occam's razor.

[scarletwoman]

154. I know about Mockingbird - I'm one of the old time DUers who has been

posting about it here for the last 4+ years -- one of my various small attempts at waking people up to the concept of "deep politics".

I know that, fundamentally, you and I are on the same path of searching out the truth. I sincerely appreciate and respect your own viewpoint on these matters.

I agree with your assumption that "there is still a power at the top...", where I seem to differ with you is that I think that laying it at the feet of the CIA is an oversimplification.

In my view, the CIA is just one of the nodes in the overall web, it isn't the center. The CIA is most definately a tool for the "Overclass" -- you are no doubt familiar with this: The Origins of the Overclass -- I just don't think that it's the only tool.

IMHO, there is a "power at the top" that USES the CIA. The question for me is, WHO is the "power at the top"? When you separate the tool from the wielder, then it's easier to perceive what other tools they have at hand -- just my humble opinion, of course.

Thank you for our exchange thus far. I think we are looking at the same big picture, we are simply interpreting some of the details differently.

sw

[EVDebs]

172. Yup, we're on the same page

It's interesting to note that the 'overclass' at the CIA (and before that at OSS) is an original group of Knights of Malta. Donovan, Angleton, Dulles, McCone, Casey, Colby, virtually the entire leadership (and when you consider Gehlen from Paperclip too) a bunch with a concerted uber motive.

With the FBI's spy Hanssen being an Opus Dei member the existence of a penetrated CIA is no longer a question. It becomes of matter of asking 'by whom' and 'for what purpose'.

SW, we ARE on the same page and singing from the same hymnal !

[MADem]

Well, I get the sense that

...they are not a monolithic entity. Competing priorities, many camps, divided loyalties. They don't always treat the head guy well, witness the last one, who was about to be skewered for the Niger uranium and bad intel on the war, and then, voila! Something happened behind the scenes and he got a Medal of Freedom!

Be interesting to be a fly on the wall over there...

[MADem]

73. Sorry, duplicate

Mouse a bit tricky this evening...

[Richard Steele]

27. That's certainly the best theory I've heard.

QUOTE:
"I don't really see how this seemingly innocuous statement by Carville could have produced such ire and panic for Novak otherwise."

That's what really puzzled me as well,
since Novak hears much worse every day,
why would this set him off?

I think you are correct. Occam's Razor agrees.

[snowbear]

28. What photos is Ed Henry talking about on the clip?

He's laughing and says "He's upset about those photos..."

Wonder what he was talking about? :crazy:

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. That was from the previous conversation

They were talking about Katherine Harris' claim that the newspapers doctored her photos in order to make her make-up look worse than it really was. Novak claimed that the press had also doctored photos of him. Carville asked him which outlets did that, and Novak wouldn't answer. So Ed henry is referring to these supposedly doctored photographs that Novak had brought up earlier.

[snowbear]

36. Thanks alcibiades!

Katherine Harris photos! :rofl:

[Pirate Smile]

52. Ha, Countdown just showed Harris with a blue face, a clown face, a KISS

face. Haa haaa.

[Tesla]

41. Can you actually make Novak look worse than he already is?

Can you doctor him up and make him look worse???

[Pachamama]

98. Where's Swamp Rat? I'm sure he could figure a way to make Novak look worse

:bounce:

[emulatorloo]

29. xcellent theory - wsj opinion page wingnuts reference is key

THANKS FOR POSTING THIS> > >>

On EDIT:

Mouth-Foaming Ann-Coulter-Wannabe-Wingnut John Fund, in his Opinion Journal Glamor Shot:

[ZenDude]

104. xcellent theory - wsj opinion page wingnuts reference is key

Isn't it widely believed that John Fund was the ghostwriter for Limbaugh's book, The Way Things Ought To Be? I think that's what Al Franken said in his book on Limbaugh. What an ass.:eyes:

[YDogg]

33. I agree with the analysis ...

... they used to get into scraps all of the time (Carville and The Traitor), but I've never seen anything like this that immediately got to The Traitor. The beauty of it was that Carville just rattled this off; it didn't seem to me like a set-up. The Traitor was screwed from the beginning because of what he's done and become.

[SmokingJacket]

35. Clever.

I couldn't follow the nuance, so I didn't get why he left (Carville wasn't being any more harsh than usual, on the surface), until the CNN guy brought up Plame... but your theory also makes sense.

Heh, heh.

[hootinholler]

37. I had trouble hearing it...

I thought Carville said "muble mumble Toilet paper you better show them you're tough".

:rofl:

-Hoot

[Pirate Smile]

40. Does anyone remember anything specific from the WSJ editorial page

on Novak?

[Bumblebee]

51. It's not what they wrote but what they represent

the RW elite, and for Novak, their opinion of him is everything. They are probably very suspicious of him now, because he did spill the beans, and Carville hit him exactly where it hurts most.

[Contrary1]

43. Novak planned this all along...

he just had to wait for the right time. Free publicity, more people reading
his column, putting Traitorgate further down on the news page.

All their little tricks seem to be working.

[writes2000]

46. I think this calls more attention to Traitorgate not less.

[cat starbuck]

78. I think anything that brings attention to the situation...

...is not good for the administration. Novak blew it, and now I'll bet the mean kids at the WH won't let him join in any more reindeer games....

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. Doubt it

But some folks like to lose even when they win. This is a victory for us. No need to imagine it as a victory for them.

[Patsy Stone]

44. Very good theory.

A+ :)

[Bumblebee]

45. Right on. I think you got it 100%!

[bunny planet]

48. Say, I like that theory. Poor little Novakula, not being invited to the

neo-con parties this season. Maybe he's afraid, they'll make him fall down in the shower again, perhaps he'll break more than his hip next time. Watch yourself Bob.

[Donailin]

54. Nope. More likely hard data from DOJ

letting him know he's next. :-)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4263356&mesg_id=4263356

[MADem]

76. Surely he got immunity

I think the problem is that the right found out he got TOTAL immunity, and he may have sung not just like a canary, but with three part harmony AND a backup band.

I doubt he fears DOJ, frankly...but his entire world of rightwing haters is deserting him, and he knows it. He is 74, a bit late in the game to try to make new friends. Ask Dick Nixon's ghost. It sucks to be a pariah, but an OLD pariah, that is real tough...

[txindy]

81. Yes, I think he got immunity

But if he told even the slightest untruth to the Grand Jury during any part of his testimony, his immunity is gone. Buh-bye, Bob!

If he told the absolute truth and someone is indicted, he'll have to testify in that person's trial and the wingnuts will crucify him. Buh-bye, Bob!

Great, ain't it?! :rofl:

[MADem]

139. The worm finally appears to be turning, indeed!

Quite frankly, it couldn't happen to anyone else and please me more. That guy is a smarmy bastard of the first order!

I'd find it especially sweet if his source turned out not to be all of the usual suspects, but instead Judith Miller, jailed Chalabi pitchwoman, who told him that her source was the Chimp and he told her to spread it far and wide...and he pitched that to the GJ. Then we'd have a real hootenanny!

I can remember working my ass off on a hot August evening, when everything stopped, someone rolled out a TV, and we all watched Nixon resign. There are days when you want history to repeat itself....

[slutticus]

57. Very interesting indeed.

I have no doubt that Novak sang like a canary.

What do you think the phrase "Just let it go" means? I didn't watch the whole show...so I don't have the complete context of the situation.

Maybe Carville has been ragging him for some time about it, and Novak just blew up.

[SidDithers]

74. I agree with the poster above...

I think "Just let it go" is Novak talking to himself. He's realized that he's rattled and that he's utterred a profanity. He know's he has fucked up good, and he can feel it all slipping away. I think he's trying to figure out the course of action which will now cause him the least damage, and then he panicked and walked out.

Sid

[lonestarnot]

58. ewww dis goood and juicy!

thanks, and I think you could have something here!

[Rose Siding]

59. Specter went after Novak in a column this morning, too

And not just a little bit....

Sen. Arlen Specter:
Novak column was a malicious attack on ‘revered’ staffer

THE ROBERT NOVAK syndicated column dated July 21 libeled Ms. Bettilou Taylor, who is one of the most respected, really revered, staffers after serving 16 years in the United States Senate. During that time, she has been my top aide on the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services and Education, which I chair. For her superb work in assisting in allocating $146 billion among important social programs, many, including senators, call her Sen. Taylor.

The Novak column falsely and maliciously accuses her of conflict of interest by orchestrating a hearing to grill Kenneth Tomlinson, chairman of the Board of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) while her husband consulted for the Association of Public Television Stations.
...
I am used to the criticism but it is inexcusable to defame a dedicated, well-respected public servant like Bettilou Taylor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4263865

[Bumblebee]

64. Specter is actually behaving lately as a man who has nothing to lose

Hard to take all the bs when one knows he may have very little time left to live. He is making plenty of enemies among GOP with his siding with the Dems on Roberts' papers, CPB/PBS hearings, and now this. So, Mr. Specter, here's wishing you to successfully beat your cancer and then please consider switching parties or, at the very least, becoming Independent. We will probably never forgive you 100% for Anita Hill but it would be a great first step!

[osaMABUSh]

83. I've always liked Spector (as much as one could like a repuke)

I'm from PA and Spector has done good for the state and now he seems to be a thorn in Bush's side. You know, like McCain used to be until that grotesque hug. And for Spector, facing one's mortality sure does put a new perspective on things.

[brettdale]

60. agree 100%

I have watch it a few times, it was the wall street Journel mentioned by Carville that sent him off.

[KoKo]

62. And...maybe Carville is angry that Novak might have spilled beans about

his wife Mary Matalin and that little Whig group that set up shop to spread propaganda. Maybe he deliberately baited Novak over that and caught Novak in his own cowardice.

Both of them are kind of disgusting to me at this point. Carville with his wife whose worked for Cheney and CIA PsyOps Novak. Pox on both their houses.

[Pachamama]

99. I stopped trusting Carville when he started sleeping w/ the enemy n/t

:puke:

[nookiemonster]

106. Not to digress, but WTF!!

Politics has strange bedfellows indeed. Disturbing.

:crazy:

[redacted]

63. It just looks like a man whose under alot of pressure. And there are

many very specific things that his stress could be about -- but generally it's all about Plame, no doubt.

Maybe I'm a bit sick, but I enjoyed watching it.

Also made me think he's a bit more human than I'd ever thought.

[Bumblebee]

67. Yes, did not quite look like Prince of Darkness there

plenty of darkness but not very princely

[Joey Liberal]

66. Novak has finally lost his right wing mind

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy:)............I hope he ends up in the slammer.

[dooner]

69. very good theory n/t

[progressoid]

75. Carville was the straw that broke Novak's back

I think the pressure has been building for a long time and a childish remark from Carville set him off. Probably didn't help that he had to answer more questions about the Plame affair either.

And I agree, he knew immediately he couldn't regain his composure (if he ever had any) and knew it was time to split.

I hope we see more of this from the WH in the near future!!

[volitionx]

79. Novak is a LOOOOOOOOSER

I am really happy that he made himself look bad, because he IS bad.

Fucking fascist fuck. I love when evil shits bring themselves down!

:woohoo:

[osaMABUSh]

82. The strange thing was Carville's non-reaction

Carville and the other guy continued speaking like Novak was supposed to walk off the stage. Either they are the coolest cucumbers or they know Nofacts was going to bolt before the Plame questioning.

[Truffaut]

84. The Best Explanation I've Seen

Not Jeff Gannon

[alcibiades_mystery]

88. I don't agree at all

Novak should get an Emmy for dramatic performance if this is true. He looked like he took a body blow.

[marions ghost]

122. Right Alcibiades-- this was not a pre-planned stunt ...

Carville and Henry knew that Novak would get riled up but not that he'd lose it entirely. Novak is clearly struggling with (clinically speaking) 'anger and impulse control.' It's unusual to actually see this kind of meltdown on TV, so I understand why some might think this was a strategy or even staged. But I say that Novak was WELL juiced-up, and he lurched off the set abruptly to keep himself from going ballistic at Carville. As sloshed as he was, Novak knew he was perilously close to embarassing himself even further.

TV veterans have no problem taking something like this in stride and continue talking...in this case Carville and Henry do register some surprise. Carville is mainly trying to keep a lid on his impulse to laugh like a hyena. As for Carville/Mary Matalin. I don't think Carville needs to try to protect his wife. My hunch is she plays it more or less straight and isn't dumb enough to do anything that particularly needs protection, no matter how much she knows. I may be wrong about that but I think the Left/Right Duo will get some more juicy books out of their ride through the Rovian rapids.

You know that scene in the old movie Stalag 17, about the POW camp where the American prisoners throw the German stooge out in the yard to get shot by the trigger happy guards
...that's what's happening to Novak right now...

He's sitting in the ejection seat

[renate]

101. I dunno...

I saw a little bit of "ummm... do we talk about this weirdness or move on" from Ed and James.

Not to fault them one little bit--they were utterly and completely professional about it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

125. I agree. Their speech patterns did alter a little bit...

but their professionalism won out.

[Pacifist Patriot]

124. It's called professionalism.

Experienced performers (including journalists) should be able to continue without missing a blink when almost anything happens.

[TrogL]

129. Been there, done that

I'm a church organist.

A few years ago during the big Easter midnight service one of the servers was bringing a big flag up to the front and it got hooked on the huge Pascal candle and brought the whole thing crashing down about two feet away from me. People were screaming and servers running to pick up the pieces and make sure the other server was OK and put out any fire that might have started.

Didn't miss a beat.

[frankly_fedup2]

171. I think it was probably producers in their little ear plug telling them

to move on like it didn't happen. Or, Carville knew he had pushed Novak too far and, as a friend, hurt him. I do believe they are all friends to some extent in the end.

[dchill]

85. "Alas, poor Yorick!

I knew him, Horatio -- a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath bore me on his back a thousand times, and how now abhorred in my imagination it is. My gorge rises at it."

[dave123williams]

86. Slurred a couple of times, blew stuff way out of proportion - Drunk.

[Historic NY]

91. He has been suspended indefinitely by CNN.............

I think it was a stunt to avoid talking about Traitorgate. Old Jimmy boy might have got his goat over the WSJ editorial, perhaps there is one in the offering about to come to light.

[dchill]

92. In addition,

his "other show" - Capital Gang, is also cancelled as of this weekend.

[Broken_Hero]

93. Well, whatever....

It is, its got him shaken in his penny loafers, or whatever he wears. What he did was unprofessional, and uncalled for. A news journalist isn't suppoe to act this way, he should be reprimanded and the FCC should pay him a visit..:)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

95. Excellent theory.

Carville needles him all the time, and this was not that bad. The "backbone" and "tough" comments don't make any sense to those of us without inside info, so there has to be SOMETHING going on behind-the-scenes.

[HDPaulG]

96. Distraction

This Nofacts affair is getting alot of print here. What about what the Chimp said at the Crawford Ranch Thursday 08/04/05 (which was set up in 1999...not an original ranch) about Iraq? How we are fighting terrorism in Iraq.....mispronouncing #2 Al Queda man 3 times...While catering to someone who will benefit from CAFTA. Just a thought.

[NVMojo]

97. Guilty people strike out at the truth ...

[rman]

102. Novak has become a liability and must lay low,

perhaps will go spend more time with his family.
It would help many people to forget.

[muchacho]

103. Novak suspended

Cussing, walking off show gets Novak suspended by CNN

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-novak05.html

[Ganja Ninja]

105. He'll probably use the weak bladder excuse.

Hey Bob! One word "Depends".

[marions ghost]

114. LOL

yeah he suddenly had a big leak to cover....

[liberalitch]

107. What was in the WSJ piece that jimmy was talking about?

I saw the start of that show yesterday..... man i wish I had seen it all.
Had to go get my sister's dog from the vet..... she couldn't get back through the Hampton Roads BridgeTunnel (HRBT) in time to get him

[Atman]

108. Novak PLANNED to walk off

before he got asked about Plame. Watch the video. Carville wasn't saying anything particularly tough. A bit of ribbing. Watch Novak's reaction. Even his outrage was pretty tempered, the "bullshit" comment notwithstanding. In fact, he sits back for a moment, tells the host to "let it go," whatever that meant. He seems to think about it for a moment; probably determined that was his best opportunity to feign outrage and leave before the Who's Who could come out.

News Theatre. Keep us dogs salivating over the treasonous Douchebag of Liberty. Still, nothing will happen to him. Obviously, he is well protected by someone.

[wicket]

109. What's this about Who's Who?

Several other people have mentioned it- I must've missed something! :)

[Atman]

111. He's now claiming he got Plame's name from "Who's Who"

Apparently the CNN host had a copy of Who's Who on hand in order to ask Novak to find Plame's name in it. Which, of course, he wouldn't have been able to do because he is lying through his big fake teeth.

[H2O Man]

110. Very well done!

Your post is extremely well thought out. The discussion that follows is wonderful, too. This is one example of DU at its best.

The pressures on Bob right now go beyond his getting the cold shoulder in the social context. What occured yesterday was a ripple on the surface; that ripple only suggests the whirlpool that is causing others in the investigation so much anxiety, tension, and depression.

[OneTwentyoNine]

115. Honestly...Isn't that what they ALWAYS do??

Those flaming RW pukes are SO used to controlling every show,every radio broadcast that they can't take the heat for a SECOND when they get cornered without the usual two or three other Repukes in their "stacked deck" type of setting.

Remember when Neal Boortz walked off the TV set of Donahue?? Yup,Neal couldn't pull the plug on Donahue like he does his listeners when they start asking tough questions or getting the better of him so he rips his microphone off and storms off the set,real classy Neal.

What does Pillboy do,what does Hannity do on BOTH radio and TV? Same shit,different day. If they can't 100% CONTROL the situation they walk or just cut off the caller instead of trying to argue their point with logic.

[The Witch]

116. I've been trying to figure this out

and this is the most cogent explanation of what happened. Absolutely, something is going on there that we don't know about. Thanks for laying it out there for us so well. :kick:

[Imagevision]

117. What would you like to read into this? - who cares!

Sibel Edmunds! -- now that is something to care about!

[alcibiades_mystery]

119. So don't read the thread

Schmuck.

[Jacobin]

118. He was drunker than Cooter Brown

and he lost it...whatever 'it' is for Novacula

[savemefromdumbya]

121. Now he won't ever have to answer questions on TV about Val Plame?

HOw convenient. Staged?

[Pacifist Patriot]

123. Good catch. I just assumed he was loaded.

[democratic veteran]

126. Wrong subject

were talking about Novak's temper tantrum instead of his betrayal. Now he's the victim, not the CIA agents, our troops in Iraq and the American people.

[Pacifist Patriot]

133. Hmmm....I don't see where talk of his temper tantrum is

casting him as a victim at all. I have seen lots of appreciation for his behavior keeping him in the spotlight. I think this incident only exacerbates his problems. It certainly doesn't alleviate them or shift any blame.

[Elidor]

130. It seems to me

That Novak was reacting to something that had occurred off-air between him and Carville. Anytime someone overreacts like that, it's usually because they're reacting to something else that happened earlier. It doesn't make much sense in relation to the discussion they were having. I'll bet it makes much more sense in the context of whatever Carville had been saying to him at another time.

And obviously, he's not liking the whole Plame business anymore.

[Voltaire99]

131. Suicide watch!

Good ol' Novacuous may be hanging by a thread. After a lifetime of besotted dissembling, the last thing these corrupt old liars have is their "pride." And he's just punked himself.

Then, too, it's a hell of an opening for the intelligence services, who may decide his crack-up means he'll start spilling too many beans...

[Ce qui la baise]

132. Best guess I've hear yet.

[David Zephyr]

136. I enjoyed your speculation and it sounds very plausible to me.

I really didn't see that much anger in Novak as I did the look of a man who has been abandoned which squares with your speculation, alcibiades_mystery.

Look at Novak's lost facial expression when he utters, "let it go". It's like he is talking to himself: let it go, just let it all go.

He doesn't storm off the stage; rather he looked to me like a zombie pulling off his little microphone and then made his exit like a dead man walking.

Your suggestion that Novak may have sung like a canary is novel and one I have not heard before and merits contemplation.

Good stuff! Nominating.

[RickWn]

141. Novak is thinking Nixon

I noticed in Novak's monday column that he again went out of his way to remind everyone of his 48 years of prowling the D.C. circuit. I can't recall just where, but I've seen him bring that up on another of the talk shows also. The column struck me as a guy desparately trying to salvage the reputation of his life-long career.

This incident coming just days after that last column demonstrates to me that Novak has finally cracked under all the pressure.

I think Novak realized moments after he uttered the words, "Just let it go" that he was appealing to his most loathed, self-perceived enemy and it suddenly dawned on him how weak and pathetic he looked.

I'm sure he was thinking his best offense, to save what little ugly face he has left, was to retreat. Unfortunately, he didn't have the class of an Ashlee Simpson to do a little two-step before he walked off stage.

Just as CNN has suspended him and canceled the Capitol Gang, I won't be surprised to soon see his final column at the Chicago Sun-Times. Remember you read it here first, when you read it on Monday.

The day I read his original Plame column, I fired off an email to him calling him a traitor and a bastard for outing Plame. I wrote to him then, asking, "You mean a senior CIA official told you it would cause her great difficulties if you revealed her identity and you did it anyway? You piece of shit!!"

Novak is going down in career-ending flames (love the "hellish" flames allusion) like Nixon and Jason Blair. Couldn't happen to a more deserving, unethical, mean and vile, syndicated dreg of conservatism.

[Old_Fart]

143. Did anyone see James face?

He was smiling and trying not to laugh :rofl:

[swag]

145. Josh Marshall talked to Carville today. V. interesting

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/8/5/153130/7548

. . . last four paragraphs:

In general, Carville seemed to have the same reaction when I talked to him -- a mix of genuinely not knowing what to make of the whole thing, mixed with genuine bemusement and maybe some latent hints of laughter -- that he does on the tape as Henry gamely tries to continue the interview as though nothing had happened.

What Carville did say was that the tension seemed entirely to do with Ed Henry, not with him, as many others have pointed out. And I've also learned that when the copy of Who's Who was sitting there on the table, Henry apparently had it bookmarked with a Post-It note to right about where you'd expect to find Wilson's entry.

All that together makes me think that the real money quote isn't the barnyard epithet that sent Novak to the CNN penalty box, but the "Just let it go!" he barked at Ed Henry as he started to bolt the stage.

To my eyes that line seemed to have a lot more uummmph behind it than the BS headliner. And maybe that's why Novak -- or I guess, yet another reason why Novak -- stomped down to the 9th floor to talk to the CNN brass after he left the set.

[KoKo]

161. I dunno.....seems Josh is letting it pass that Mary Matalin is part of

"White House Iraq Group" (WHIG) who had to testify and might be culpable for spreading "disinformation."

I can't see standing with Carville just because he "says" he's a Dem with "credentials" of working for Clinton when he's married to a woman who has NEVER forgiven that Clinto WON and George H. W. Bush (Poppy) LOST to Bill Clinton!

So...given that Mary Matalin is the Mother of Carville's children he might just have a "dog in this fight."

Given that some of us here on DU believe that "some Dems" have been involved with Bush's total Agenda being pushed and passed through Congress with an "apparently willing" United States of America Public just "frothing at the bit" to do Bush II's bidding...it does make James Carville's assessment on anything "Democratic," just a "WEE BIT" compromised. :shrug:

In Other Words: Carville's the daddy of Matalin's kids. What would be any DU'ers loyalty to their kids in a Political Battle. And...we need to recognize that Carville/Matalin's kids will ALWAYS take PRECIDENCE over the "vermin" that you and I produce. :nuke:

Sorry...I know my post is the ULTIMATE in cynicism. I just couldn't shut myself up. Shame on Me...:-(

[LoZoccolo]

150. I lean toward your theory, but I'll add something that strengthens it.

He looks like he looks off somewhere before he leaves. I'm thinking he didn't decide to leave himself, like some people charge in relation to not wanting to talk about Plame. I think maybe a stage manager or something signaled him to leave, probably because he just said "bullshit" on the air and they just wanted him out of there after that.

I used to listen to this morning radio show where if someone who called in used one of the words that you're not supposed to say on the radio, even accidentally, the host would tell them that they had to hang up on them because they did that, as if they had an in-house policy that they consistently followed. I wonder if CNN has a similar policy.

The relationship between Carville and Matalin seems so bizzarre to me that I wouldn't even be able to guess what they transmit to each other across the aisle. I would think they'd have some sort of non-disclosure policy between each other that would prevent them from airing each sides' internal problems and conflicts to each other...but then they're married. So I'm more open to the idea that Carville could have gotten the notion that Novak was under pressure from somewhere else.

[RickWn]

151. Another take on Novak's walkout

I'm not a comfortably proficient blogger, so forgive my HTML failures which are about to result.

First, the transcript of Inside Politics from the moment Carville and Novak were introduced is a very interesting read and more informative than just watching the few moments of video right before Novak storms off. You have to scroll down aways to get to that moment and the word-for-word documentation.

The read is here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/04/ip.01.html">Inside Politics Novak walk-off transcript

The point I make, if you read the transcript of conversation that leads up to Novak's meltdown, is notice the number of times that Carville politely agrees with Novak, acknowledges Novak's points and is quite conciliatory throughout the interview by Henry.

Notice the lack of similar conciliation by Novak and even his interdiction of a slur against Carville.

At one point, discussing Iraq and troop withdrawals, Carville is trying to explain that if 150,000 troops are in jeopardy in a combat zone and you reduce the number of troops in that zone by 80,000, doesn't that leave the remaining 70,000 troops in greater jeapordy? Rhetorically, Carville answers his own question and says that seems likely, "but what do I know, I was just a corporal." Novak immediately comes back and says, "I outrank, James. I was a lieutenant." And then does some further blather.

Henry comes back and asks Carville, "Is that true? He outranks you?" Carville comes back and says (with gallentry aforefront), "Yes, he does."

Numerous times, Carville is polite and deferential to the opinion of Novak. Not once does Novak reciprocate and, in fact, he makes an outright slur against James during the discussion prior.

In reading the transcript lead-up to Novak's storm-off, there is a period of discussion about the ballplayer recently suspended for steroid use after testifying before Congress that he has never used steroids. James goes on to some length about how you can't lie before Congress, get caught in your lie, and then get into the Hall of Fame.

I think the analogy, and James harping on, "He won't make it into the Hall of Fame" is what Novak was interpreting as James indirectly ridiculing him. Shortly after, and I do think the video reveals Novak appears to be a few Coffee Royals past a level head, his own inner tension combined with his degree of intemperance contributed to his overreaction a few moments later.

I don't think our speculation of Novak's intemperance is idle. CNN exucutives would not have suspended him, not to mention cancel his Capitol Gang show, if he had walked off the set with righteous indignation in a clear and sober state.

Stick a fork in him. He's done.

[RickWn]

152. Damn, I knew it

The proper link, should you care to read the transcript is this:

Please copy and paste:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/04/ip.01.html

[Auntie Bush]

167. I think you analyzed that to perfection. Good job! n/t

[lovuian]

162. can we say Maitlin is ticked for Novak spilling his guts and

sent carville to attack him!!!

Novak is a ruined man!!! Whether CNN wants to believe it or not!!!

[frankly_fedup2]

173. I really doubt it because I have seen programs where MM and

Carville were debating each other. Of course, the host was the mediator; however, Carville never, ever, makes it personal with MM. Now Mary is just the opposite. She had said her peace on some political show, and then Carville started giving his opinion. She rudely interrupted her husband and said, "You had better watch what you say about that man (meaning Bush), "he is a good Christian man and something this country has needed for a long time, so watch your words or your on the couch this month."

Now that is not verbatim, of course, but the ending was pretty close. Carville laughed nervously and looked embarrassed. He then started in a different way to make his point and obviously keep MM happy.

Publicly, Carville has never brought anything from their private, personal life into a debate. He treats her like a queen on a pedestal; however, she says whatever she thinks about the Dems . . . including her own husband.

[opihimoimoi]

176. Yellow bellied COWARD of the worst Kine..the fink kine....A fitting end

to a career of promoting Loloism by being a mouthpiece for the Conservative Movement......

What a Dufus....sheesh