Wanna see an interesting photo from November's election in Ohio?

[ray of light]

Check out this link!

http://www.democracycellproject.net/index.php

[Quakerfriend]

1. I saw this posted right after it was taken

by the person who took it. It's real all right!

If I remember correctly, they tried to follow this guy but, lost track of him.

[Wetzelbill]

2. oh that sucks......

I'm going to be pissed all day.

[ray of light]

9. I know. That's what I thought when I saw it too!

[BlueIris]

55. ::whimpering noise::

::inarticulate with rage::

[ray of light]

6. Can you get the person to contact the Democracy Cell Project?

Just pm me and I'll give you the email address.

[ray of light]

52. Do you know if the person depicted had another person with him

Like one democrat and one republican like Jeff suggested there should be? Can you contact anyone to find out more information?

[ray of light]

54. do you know if the papers saw it or if Conyer's saw it?

[karendc]

59. yes

Conyers saw it...

[Botany]

3. It was hamilton County Ohio ..... 11/2/04

..... America blog posted it and the story ....... check their archives

Look I live in Columbus, OH and saw election crimes first hand
Kerry won this state.

[ray of light]

5. Do you have a group you work with?

Or are you interested in helping others connect with your group? Please post your activism at http:www.democracycellproject.net
so others can find your group.

[mtnester]

16. I was on the ground in Columbus right with you Botany

in Precincts 2A and 3C - it was MORE than a crime BTW...it was, in my mind, a deliberate suppression of the civil rights of people based upon the color of their skin and their socio-economic status.

I stayed at the polling place until 1230 AM, when the last person who was in line at 7:30 voted, then stayed another 1.5 hours watching the packaging of EQ, and then followed the vehicle to the main BOE.

I went back to election protection HQ to make my reports (you would not believe, I had the cops called on me, etc etc) and no one was around. I had called them to let them know what was happening, and they said come back in, but I do believe I was the last polling place to try to come back in in Franklin County.

I got home at 3:00 AM, tired and PISSED. Don't get me started on recounts in Fairfield County - just google my DU name and you can read my accounts.

[Botany]

17. a little of what I saw

http://www.thousandreasons.org/get_article.php?article_id=13

the phone hacking was creepy ......

Fairfield County you mean when the hand count did match the machine
count and they brought in new hardware for the machines?

I want to scream every time I hear some talking head on why Kerry lost.
"Because it was stolen, asshole."

[mtnester]

18. Yes, THAT Fairfield County

Asshats all of them, Even the Dem who was there...I knew all of those people personally, and let them know EXACTLY how I felt about their blatant cheating. Some of them have known me since I was little, and I cried "Shame on you all". I felt better but it did not change anything.

One of the Dems I saw last week and ragged AGAIN about how he was a spineless, cheating creep by not following the rules. Then we talked about the sweet corn harvest.

[Botany]

21. I know exactly what you are going theough.

I have family member who will give paper this fall @ the national
Political Science convention about how the exit polls were wrong
and bush won fair and square ......

i think some people are being obtuse on purpose.

BTW look @ this ..... Lucas County home of the 39% turnout in Toledo but
85 to 99% turn out in the repug suburbs ....

Kerry won get over it.

Tom Noe's wife disrupted ballot count during the 2004 general election
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Ms._Noes_Own_Scandal_Wife...

In yet another surreal twist in Ohio’s “coin-gate” scandal, the wife of Bush’s chief Ohio fundraiser, Tom Noe—who is currently embroiled in campaign finance and money laundering probes—surprised poll workers and observers alike by disrupting the ballot count during the 2004 general election, RAW STORY has discovered.

Bernadette Noe, who served dual roles as chairman for the Lucas County Republican Party and the Lucas County Board of Elections, sent twelve “partisans” into a warehouse on Election Day, according a memo authored by Ohio’s Director of Campaign Finance Richard Weghorst who was present at the time.

The assertion is part of a comprehensive investigation prepared for Ohio Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell regarding reports of irregularities in Lucas County. The report found gross failures on the part of Ms. Noe’s board in preparation for and administration of November’s election. (Read the memo in PDF: http://rawstory.com/other/pdfs/lucasinquiryrawstory.pdf )

Reminiscent of an account reported on by RAW STORY regarding ballot tampering in Clermont County, Ohio, Ms. Noe was involved in an incident through which Republican volunteers were brought in to “assist” processing returned voter confirmation postcards. On her authority and that of several other board members, partisan volunteers were allowed to copy the returned cards. They were subsequently caught by a Lucas County Democratic official peeling the return stickers off the voter confirmation cards, and were told to leave. Weghorst’s inquiry found no evidence they had been supervised. The investigator's report was submitted in April 2005.

[ray of light]

40. I was in toledo and I do not believe the 39% turnout.

We had people honking at us and giving us the thumbs up all day long. We had people who said, "I already voted first thing this morning..." before we even said "hey".

[ray of light]

50. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Bush in CInci or Columbus

right before the election? Then he flew to Texas. But then later,it was the same county he visited that had the lockdown that night.

Am I wrong?

[Botany]

51. Bush and Rove met w/ Blackwell & Damnschroder (head of the Franklin .....

..... county BOE and former head of the county GOP) @ 2:00 PM
they then went on to DC where * sat and laughed as Karen Hughes told
him he lost and as the returns were showing a Kerry Landslide.

That was in Columbus, OH

[ray of light]

53. Franklin county? Is that the same county where Warren was locked down?

Due to fake terror alerts?

[Botany]

56. No Warren County is 70 miles to the S.W. of Franklin

Franklin is in the middle of the State

[ray of light]

57. Do you know anything about Clermont voting machines?

People at the irc chat at the democracy cell project and here at d.u. are looking to findout what they use.

[mtnester]

64. He and Rove flew in to Columbus before noon to see Blackwell.

The first precincts I manned were in the flight path of the airport, and it is not hard to spot AF-1. The road closures and detours for his visit also helped make voting in Columbus SO much easier.:sarcasm:

No, Warren County had the "terra alert," not Franklin County which is where Columbus is located. Little ole Lebanon Ohio about to get hit by Al Quaida.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Oh yes he did

I believe so as well. Why else would they go through all of this theft if they didn't believe in themselves? They knew they wouldn't win Ohio and had backup plans for a long time. On the pbs Karl Rove documentary "The Architect" they told how Rove was already working on the 2004 election in 2000. So probably making plans for strategy and the like.

[ray of light]

35. I'd like to hear more.

Please feel free to pm me

[ray of light]

49. Do you think you have a link?

[sakabatou]

4. Jeez

[McCamy Taylor]

7. Coingate could unravel this. A REAL prosecutor would use Coingate

indictments to force testimony about larger crimes (i.e. election fraud 2004). At least some of the prosecutors in Ohio must be Democrats. Didnt I read somewhere that the GOP is trying to keep all Democratic prosecutors away from the Coingate case?

[ray of light]

8. I'm not sure. Do you have a link or anything?

This is why what John Conyers is doing is so important! He's getting the republican obstruction of justice on the record! People may believe politics as usual stink, but people had being tricked and made a fool of even more!

[FreedomAngel82]

36. I think so too

I have a strong feeling that they are both connected. If you uncover one of them you'll uncover the other. I'm glad the coin scandal is getting more coverage because I highly believe it's connected. I think maybe even Schmidt was involved too perhaps in her area. She denied on a local show knowing who Tom Noe was and she claimed if you put them in a room together she wouldn't know him. With these people everything they say is backwards because they're all on the same talking points.

[ray of light]

43. Last night, I just spoke to someone who didn't even hear of coin"gate"

So I sent him the articles. We've got to get the heat turned up on the DSM and coingate! He was worried that the DSM was going nowhere but I sent him the afterdowningstreet.org link as well.

[TriMetFan]

10. Sorry for sound like this; but

this is old news. What we need to to is help and back everyone that is trying to do something right now in stopping the Bush and Thug company.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Means nothing by itself...

Ballots have to be transported from polling locations to the Board of Elections. Polls workers are evenly split between Republicans and Democrats. Without knowing what's going on out of the camara frame, you really can't say that this isn't a poll worker preparing ballots for transport downtown.

[ray of light]

13. Jeff, I disagree with you!

Banks for years and years have used proffesional transportation and guard services to protect our transactions. Doesn't a national election at least require the same steadfast attention to security? I mean, any Joe Shmoe driving around in a non-secured pickup truck--with a partison tag on it--really doesn't lead much to insure the credibility of any election.

So...would you trust your bank to transport your deposits and checks in such a cavalier manner? No?

Well, in this modern day and age with security firms far and wide, you don't think a national election--or for that matter any election--deserves the highest security too?

Next time you see a brinks truck, think about how difficult it is for a driver to abscund with it's load. And next time you look at a red pick up truck, think about how easy it is for one red pickup to blend with the thousands out there; thus making it easier for this driver to dump a load or change a load or even not even show up with the load!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

14. Yet this is how it's done...

I'm not saying it's the safest or most secure way to transport ballots, but the theory is that if there's both a Republican and a Democrat watching the ballot box, one side can't tamper with it without the other side knowing. The fact that there's a Bush sticker on the pickup truck isn't surprising; as I said, half of the poll workers are Republicans and the other half are Democrats. Assuming that there really is nothing nefarious going on here, it would simply mean that the Republican was driving with the Democrat riding shotgun to unsure the safe delivery.

[ray of light]

15. Where is the democrat observing his actions?

Is he or she there? Wouldn't that be the procedure? To tie keep them together like siamese twins?

I don't trust this.

And frankly, I believe election protection SHOULD include using reliable armored trucks with both democrat and republican observers with the driver.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

19. As I said in the original post...

Without knowing what's going on out of the camara frame, it's hard to tell if there's anything fraudulent going on here. As far as we know, the guy placing the ballots in the truck is the Democrat.

As far as armored cars go, it would be prohibitively expensive. There are 1,000 precincts in Hamilton County alone -- imagine the cost of renting that many armored cars. The alternative would be fewer cars, but that would mean that ballots are sitting around (somewhere) waiting for the security firm to show up -- and the results would not be known until the next day. And if the security firm happens to be a wholly-owned subsidiary of Diebold, well...

I prefer the method they use now. Each side keeps an eye on the other to prevent mischief.

[ray of light]

20. But do you know if they investigated this?

In this whole election reports throughout the day, particularly in Toledo where I worked, were of missing ballots, long lines, general disarray, and then we hear that the provisionals were not even counted. Then let's add to the information that the recount was a sham and there were machines in the warehouse the whole time. Then let's add coingate, two breakins (in Toledo and Cleveland) ect...and their track record for integrity is not looking like they deserve the benefit of the doubt!

In normal instances, this picture could be nothing. But in Ohio, the rule of thumb for me is "Investigate and prove there was nothing illegal going on!"

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

22. Investigate What?!

It's a photo of a guy loading ballots into a vehicle -- something that happened at about 400-500 polling locations throughout Hamilton County on Election Night. None of the polling locations is within walking distance of the Board of Elections, so it would be safe to assume that EVERY BALLOT in Hamilton County was loaded aboard some type of vehicle and driven downtown. What is it about this photograph that warrants an investigation?

[ray of light]

24. Sure--Were all these ballots audited as having arrived safely at

their proper destination? Did they treat this the same way they treat numbered money going from Bank Of America branch 20396 to the main branch at 30912 (numbers and name made up!)

Do they KNOW who this person was? Was he authorised to carry ballots in a truck?

Where was this truck seen and has their arrival and departure been authenticated?

That is what I mean by investigated. Perhaps, each county had things just like this, but it doesn't make me feel any better to know that it existed!

What is the protocal? Do they have an identifiable means of verifying that the proper procedure was followed?

And given the corruption in Ohio, they need to prove it to US that this is legitimate and that nothing happened.

(edited for wrong verb.)

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

28. These aren't A-Bomb secrets...

Ohio poll workers are paid by and trained by the Board of Elections (which in Ohio is a bi-partisan organization) in the proper distribution and handling of ballots. There is an even number of poll wokers (half Democratic/half Republican) who are nominated for their positions by their respective parties. As ballots are handed out, the poll workers continually cross-check and monitor each other.

Their work is also monitored throughout the day by BOE personnel and (in 2004) by the half-zillion Democratic and Republican poll watchers who were spread out across Hamilton County to obesrve any irregularities. I personally was at my designated polling location to watch the ballots be sealed and prepared for transport.

The ballots are transported to the BOE by one representative poll worker from each party. The ballots are never out of sight. Based on what's happening in this photograph, there's no reason to believe that there's anything nefarious going on.

For all the problems in Ohio on Election Day, I haven't heard any reports of ballot-tampering -- and that's because with both sides looking over each others' shoulder, it would be extremely difficult to do.

[ray of light]

31. However, there are reports of ballots not being counted.

There are reports of ballots not even being able to be found! (And I was in the precinct where and when they couldn't be located.

I was also in the precinct where democrat voters were suppressed and their votes were messed with.

I was also told by election personel that they hadn't been trained properly.

I was also at the precinct with a line out the door while they tried to find ballots.

Could it possibly be that your area was untampered with and mine was? Could it be that we each have different perceptions of how to hold a credible election? Because as far as I saw, people were undertrained, ballots were missing, police suppressed voter turnout, and it happened from the time the doors opened until they shut.

And I'm sorry, but an armored truck, to protect our voting integrity is a small price to pay for a legitimate election.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. All of your points are valid...

but the photo in question doesn't document voter supression, or long lines or a need for more training for poll workers. It's a guy, possibly under the watchful eye of his fellow poll workers, loading ballots into a truck for transport to the Board of Elections.

What's getting people in an uproar (and what did it at the time -- I remember this picture) is the Bush bumper sticker on the truck. Given that half of the poll workers are Republicans and half are Democrats (and partisans at that, or they'd never get the gig), it's not surprising that a poll worker would have a political bumper sticker.

I reiterate -- with 5.5 million votes cast in Ohio and roughly 1,500 votes per polling location, it would require more than 5,000 armored cars to properly deliver the ballots -- at a cost of millions to the taxpayers (even if that many armored cars were available in the state). And that method would require the ballots to be left in the custody of a $10 per hour rent-a-cop who might also be on the payroll of the RNC.

I would much rather one committed Democrat and one committed Republican BOTH keep an eye on the ballots as they are hand-delivered to the Board of Elections.

[Pacifist Patriot]

26. I agree Jeff.

It needs broader context. This picture could easily have been taken in my county in Florida. Nothing particularly alarming by itself. For all we know that's the Democrat and the Republican is taking the picture. *shrug*

ETA: I KNOW Kerry won Ohio. I KNOW the election was fraudulent. I just can't tell whether this picture has anything to do with it or not without broader context.

[ray of light]

27. Yes? But I seem to remember Bev and crew

arriving just in time for them to see the bags of ballots sitting in plastic bags waiting to be picked up. Now those are part of the record.

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. Okay, but that is a context not provided by the picture.

The picture would be far more meaningful if full narrative were supplied. It should answer the questions:

Who is pictured in the photograph?
What is he doing?
Why is he there?
What happened prior to the picture being taken?
What happened after the picture was taken?
Who took the picture and why?

Some pictures are better at answering those questions without supporting narrative. This one needs context. As a stand alone picture it just isn't clear whether a crime is being committed or not. That's all I'm saying.

[ray of light]

34. That's the point.

It was not investigated. There is no proof that this person was doing something legitimate and given Ohio's reputation, it can not be assumed to be legitimate.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. I think you and I are in absolute agreement.

I do think the context of the photo is worthy of investigation, particularly given what happened in Ohio in November 2004. I just think it should be acknowledged that there is a possibility that it can be legitimate.

[ray of light]

39. Ok...I think we could probably agree on the odds? 50-50?

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. Not a clue.

I'm a sucky gambler.

[candice]

12. I remember this as well...

think the Repub with the ballots and the Bush/Cheney sticker met up with another truck and there may have been a transfer before the truck "delivered"--went into a parking lot of a building where votes were being collected (and couldn't be followed any longer).

Why even bother with dumping ballots if Ken Blackwell has access to the tabulators from his office, and Rove's computer team at the White House that day certainly was in contact with Blackwell and other election officials running campaigns for Bush. It's tragic that a fraudulent high-level terror warning (pre-announced by days) prevented observation of vote counting, that people had to wait up to 11 hours in the rain in Dem districts, and provisional ballots were misused to prevent voting. When the server that was analyzing national exit poll data went off-line in the early morning for a hour or so, it subsequently showed that whole states had flipped. Ohio reeked of dishonesty, but had the recount been fair then I would have accepted the outcome (Kerry just didn't get enough votes to overcome the vote stealers and vote thwarted (a concerted effort). The recount was as fraudulent as the initial vote, however.

Meanwhile, the appointed and then supposedly elected Administration is "spreading" Democracy (but only to countries who have oil for American corporations to grab).

[Supersedeas]

23. in just one truck that size...100K votes could go missing in a hurry

[ray of light]

45. But if you read the words under that picture,

It said what was on the bags, "Special ballots".

Well, what special ballots? Are they the provisional ones? Were they even counted? I don't know, but who does? They deprived us of a fair recount!

[Old_Fart]

25. What happened to the votes that were found in Florida?

They found several boxes on the side of the road and you never heard about it again.

If a democrat was in office the man in the picture would have been outed by now. Who was he and why isn't he in jail?

[ray of light]

46. I don't know.

And what happend with Bev's investigation where she found them in the trash?

[Old_Fart]

47. Silenced

Absence makes the memory grow weaker "out of sight out of mind".

[ray of light]

48. Welcome Old_Fart...I feel bad even typing that name!

But yes, it was silenced.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. I remember seeing this

Is this legal for them to do that? Aren't they supposed to keep the ballots for so long?

[ray of light]

32. Well, according to Jeff (above) everything is just fine...

[karendc]

38. The photo

I am the person who put up the photo at the DCP site and I did comment that we cannot tell very much from it:

"We do not know if this photo is staged or for real; we do not know where in Ohio it was taken. Photos such as this one are merely reminders of the vigilance we must undertake in order to preserve our democratic principles.

There is a Bush/Cheney sticker on the car. The bags say "SPECIAL BALLOTS". We know provisional ballots were not counted in Ohio. What was the destination of these? "


****

The question is meant to be rhetorical, not leading. In my own investigations of the Ohio issue (I covered the Conyers' hearings for the DCP and have tried to stay in touch with his people), it appears there were many, many missteps and possible violations, at every step, beginning with the voter rolls themselves.

Why I wanted this up there today: there has been so much speculation about Ohio and the voting it is clearly an opportunity to observe again.

I would also like to hear the personal stories described in this thread. I have heard a huge range of observations and speculations, but after a while, it WILL all add up. And a whistle-blower or five would be very helpful...

[ray of light]

44. thank you for coming here and describing it.

Given that today is the special election, it only leads to more questions in how ballots should be preserved.

[UrbScotty]

58. "Tonight, we are all citizens of Ohio."

Agreed.

[ray of light]

62. yep!

[ray of light]

60. anybody else worried about transportation of these ballots?

Seems like tonight it's a really close race. Has this thread made anybody questiont he protocal taken by Blackwell and the election officials to give a fair and non-corrupt election?

Where's the list of protocal and shouldn't we be demanding one?

[ray of light]

61. as I see posts like, "Race within recount? What does it mean?"

It makes me wonder if each and every ballot has been properly shipped. It makes me wonder if any of the traumas from November occured this election. It makes me wonder if the voter registrations were ok or if they were AWOL like November. It makes me wonder how many provisional ballots there were this time. Will they be counted?

[ray of light]

63. well, today's election was the first since the stolen one in November

We've all looked at this picture and we've considered it's meaning. Where do we go from here.

I would like to see a discussion on it and see if there was any unusual things this election.

I hope Conyers won't be resting on his laurels but I know we won't be.

And with this post, I say, "Let's make sure our elections are fair and honest and credible. OR we have no democracy!"

Bye All!