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What will the Religious Reich do with Frist, now that he supports stem

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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:27 AM
Original message
What will the Religious Reich do with Frist, now that he supports stem
cell research?

Will they change their stance or will they excommunicate him as a heretic?

I had considered him to be the most likely person to be US president in the years 2008-2016, but (thank god) I think he blew it today.

The Rabid Religious Reich will screech and howl and condom him. I suspect that now he, like John McCain, is finished.

***
***

Heretics And Hericies
by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_inger...

excerpts...

According to the theologians, God, the Father of us all, wrote a letter to his children. The children have always differed somewhat as to the meaning of this letter. In consequence of these honest differences, these brothers began to cut out each other's hearts. In every land, where this letter from God has been read, the children to whom and for whom it was written have been filled with hatred and malice. They have imprisoned and murdered each other, and the wives and children of each other. In the name of God every possible crime has been committed, every conceivable outrage has been perpetrated. Brave men, tender and loving women, beautiful girls, and prattling babes have been exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ. For more than fifty generations the church has carried the black flag. Her vengeance has been measured only by her power. During all these years of infamy no heretic has ever been forgiven. With the heart of a fiend she has hated; with the clutch of avarice she has grasped; with the jaws of a dragon she has devoured; pitiless as famine, merciless as fire, with the conscience of a serpent: such is the history of the Church of God.

I do not say, and I do not believe, that Christians are as bad as their creeds. In spite of church and dogma, there have been millions and millions of men and women true to the loftiest and most generous promptings of the human heart. They have been true to their convictions, and, with a self-denial and fortitude excelled by none, have labored and suffered for the salvation of men. Imbued with the spirit of self-sacrifice, believing that by personal effort they could rescue at least a few souls from the infinite shadow of hell, they have cheerfully endured every hardship and scorned every danger. And yet, notwithstanding all this, they believed that honest error was a crime. They knew that the Bible so declared, and they believed that all unbelievers would be eternally lost. They believed that religion was of God, and all heresy of the devil. They killed heretics in defence of their own souls and the souls of their children. They killed them because, according to their idea, they were the enemies of God, and because the Bible teaches that the blood of the unbeliever is a most acceptable sacrifice to heaven..

Give any orthodox church the power, and to-day they would punish heresy with whip, and chain, and fire. As long as a church deems a certain belief essential to salvation, just so long it will kill and burn if it has the power. Why should the church pity a man whom her God hates? Why should she show mercy to a kind and noble heretic whom her God will burn in eternal fire? Why should a Christian be better than his God? It is impossible for the imagination to conceive of a greater atrocity than has been perpetrated by the church. Every nerve in the human body capable of pain has been sought out and touched. Let it be remembered that all churches have persecuted heretics to the fullest extent of their power. Toleration has increased only when and where the power of the church has diminished. From Augustine until now the spirit of the Christians has remained the same. There has been the same intolerance, the same undying hatred of all who think for themselves, and the same determination to crush out of the human brain all knowledge inconsistent with an ignorant creed.

Men and women have been burned for thinking there is but one God; that there was none; that the Holy Ghost is younger than God; that God was somewhat older than his son; for insisting that good works will save a man without faith; that faith will do without good works; for declaring that a sweet babe will not be burned eternally, because its parents failed to have its head wet by a priest; for speaking of God as though he had a nose; for denying that Christ was his own father; for contending that three persons, rightly added together, make more than one; for believing in purgatory; for denying the reality of hell; for pretending that priests can forgive sins; for preaching that God is an essence; for denying that witches rode through the air on sticks; for doubting the total depravity of the human heart; for laughing at irresistible grace, predestination and particular redemption; for denying that good bread could be made of the body of a dead man; for pretending that the pope was not managing this world for God, and in the place of God; for disputing the efficacy of a vicarious atonement; for thinking the Virgin Mary was born like other people; for thinking that a man's rib was hardly sufficient to make a good- sized woman; for denying that God used his finger for a pen; for asserting that prayers are not answered, that diseases are not sent to punish unbelief; for denying the authority of the Bible; for having a Bible in their possession; for attending mass, and for refusing to attend; for wearing a surplice; for carrying a cross, and for refusing; for being a Catholic, and for being a Protestant; for being an Episcopalian, a Presbyterian, a Baptist, and for being a Quaker. In short, every virtue has been a crime, and every crime a virtue. The church has burned honesty and rewarded hypocrisy. And all this, because it was commanded by a book -- a book that men had been taught implicitly to believe, long before they knew one word that was in it. They had been taught that to doubt the truth of this book -- to examine it, even -- was a crime of such enormity that it could not be forgiven, either in this world or in the next.

...full article at above link


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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. See this post!
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I ve been excummunicated
It's really not all that bad. I even found churches and people that like my martyr status. I'd say that the right will stone him.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. They WOULD stone him if they had the political power
In my post I quoted Ingersoll's "Heretics And Hericies".

Here is the relavent passage:

It is claimed that God wrote a book called the Bible, and it is generally admitted that this book is somewhat difficult to understand. As long as the church had all the copies of this book, and the people were not allowed to read it, there was comparatively little heresy in the world; but when it was printed and read, people began honestly to differ as to its meaning. A few were independent and brave enough to give the world their real thoughts, and for the extermination of these men the church used all her power. Protestants and Catholics vied with each other in the work of enslaving the human mind. For ages they were rivals in the infamous effort to rid the earth of honest people. They infested every country, every city, town, hamlet and family. They appealed to the worst passions of the human heart. They sowed the seeds of discord and hatred in every land. Brother denounced brother, wives informed against their husbands, mothers accused their children, dungeons were crowded with the innocent; the flesh of the good and true rotted in the clasp of chains; the flames devoured the heroic, and in the name of the most merciful God, his children were exterminated with famine, sword, and fire. Over the wild waves of battle rose and fell the banner of Jesus Christ. for sixteen hundred years the robes of the church were red with innocent blood. The ingenuity of Christians was exhausted in devising punishment severe enough to be inflicted upon other Christians who honestly and sincerely differed with them upon any point whatever.

Give any orthodox church the power, and to-day they would punish heresy with whip, and chain, and fire. As long as a church deems a certain belief essential to salvation, just so long it will kill and burn if it has the power. Why should the church pity a man whom her God hates? Why should she show mercy to a kind and noble heretic whom her God will burn in eternal fire? Why should a Christian be better than his God? It is impossible for the imagination to conceive of a greater atrocity than has been perpetrated by the church. Every nerve in the human body capable of pain has been sought out and touched.

Let it be remembered that all churches have persecuted heretics to the fullest extent of their power. Toleration has increased only when and where the power of the church has diminished. From Augustine until now the spirit of the Christians has remained the same. There has been the same intolerance, the same undying hatred of all who think for themselves, and the same determination to crush out of the human brain all knowledge inconsistent with an ignorant creed.


from Heretics And Hericies http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_inger...
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. I think he will be the first documanted case of
Religious Fundamentalist political road-kill on record.

If he doesn't re-flip-flop, they will target his ass whenever, and wherever he runs for anything ever again.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. I hope you're right.
But it has nothing to do with morals or ethics.
I've never seen this man do anything that wasn't in his best interest, financial or political.
Is it possible his father's colleagues threatened repercussions if he didn't change his stance?
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I hope Science prevailed over religious superstition

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /



Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine...

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_inger...
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, trust me,
with Frist, it's about money, power or both.

Scientists don't have their religious views broadcast for political reasons onto 50 foot tv screens in reichwing churches all over the country.

Scientists don't diagnose patients on the floor of Congress after watching a videotape.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. But Frist is DOOMED. The Electoral Shock Troops of the Religious Reich...
can easily overpower all the other political constituencies in the US. That's why statistics like "64% of Americans are in favor of Rov v. Wade" are meaningless.

The Religious Reich has power far greater than their numbers would predict, due to the extreme discipline in their ranks.

When a Radical Cleric like James Dobson gives marching (read: voting) orders, the Christian Soldiers march in lockstep. They ALL march. They get close to 100% voter turnout, and close to 100% loyalty on the candidates selected by their Radical Clerics.

If they perceive that Frist has crossed them, he is finished, regardless of how much money or power or public opinion he thinks he has.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Ah, he is finished only if they can find a suitable replacement.
They won't back someone less popular if they might lose the race.

Frist has a fanatical following down here, stem cell research or no.

And my fundie neighbor will vote for whoever her pastor tells her to vote for.
Just like last year.
No thinking or contemplating morals required.

I am skeptical about the depth of the religious fervor of the planners.

I think they will do what's best in the long run and if they think Frist can get in the WH and do their bidding, they'll put their money on him.

And the sheep will be convinced it is what god wants.

But I hope I'm wrong.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. If Frist and the Reich wing
of the rapepublicon potty are as smart as I think they are, they will have informed the fundy idiots to play along. This is all a trick. Frist has to become less a senator and more a doctor for his anticipated run at the white house.
This is his way, in light of the more intellectual members' concerns about the insane embracing of fundy extremism.
Frist is no intellectual giant and is lacking in leadership ability. He is incapable of pulling off the "proud to be a good 'ol boy moron" act that has served dubya so effectively so he has to create an image solely his own. The fix is in--rest assured.
Will this swerve get him into the white house? With Diebold's backing, it will, as long as he can get the numbers within vote fraud range.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Fundy idiots do not take information from politicians, do not play along
they take their orders from gods lips to their ears, and they do not ever pretend to compromise on their principals.

Republican politicians are liars, deceivers, manipulators, etc. Christians are far more dangerous, far more insane, but they are not dishonest; they do not play tricks.

They really believe that using stem cells is killing babies, and they will not stand for babies being killed so some politician can advance his (or even their) agenda. They do not believe the end justifies the means. I will give them that much credit.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I would imagine the radical clerics are quite capable
of supporting a deception that will result in their continued influence on US
policy. Perhaps my bullshit detector and suspicion generator are working overtime, but I have consistently underestimated the r/w capacity for duplicity, misdirection and underhandedness. I can certainly see that the religious despots are probably genuine while the r/w political hacks merely assume a facade.
However, I am also clear that the religious leaders are perfectly willing to sacrifice their own mantle of integrity for the "greater good." No price too great for their ultimate goal.
I have the misfortune of holding religion as a deliberate deception, both of self and others. That skeptical stance often keeps me from acknowledging religious beliefs as anything more than irrational delusion, thus treating the followers thereof as, at best, harmless crackpots, and, more likely, evil manipulators of weak gullibility - more fool I.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well put.
I admire your clarity.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Easy. This is politics. The RR will exact a truly bigger favor to them
in return for his contemporaneous heresy. Something more onerous than banning stem cell research. Like enacting mandatory prayer in the classroom or posting 10 Commandments in every classroom as a warm-up for the former.
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