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I've changed my mind on gun control. I was wrong.......

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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:20 PM
Original message
I've changed my mind on gun control. I was wrong.......
we need a well-armed left. It is clear that without the right to keep an bear arms, including assault weapons, liberals would not be safe. The Republicans have made it clear that they don't think we are Americans. They have made it clear that they believe they are automatically entitled to win elections, even when they loose.

We need to protect ourselves. GOP radicals, like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, can find liberals by simply buying a voter registrations list. See who is listed as a Democrat. The only thing stopping these violent people is the fear that we have weapons to protect ourselves with. Because McVeigh and Rudolph are COWARDS. They like to kill others, but they don't want to be caught and go to jail or get killed in the crossfire. The cowards won't come after us if they believe we can protect ourselves and they might get hurt.

I'm sorry for how this sounds, but it is clear to me that the Republicans have walked away from democracy and have no regard for the lives of their fellow Americans.

Steve

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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes
I do agree with your point.
Further, we need to encourage pistol ownership, as most of us are city folk, whose targets will be out in the street, not across the south 40.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Do you what you want but i'll never carry a gun.
Sides the way my hands tremor the safest place to stand around me is where I shoot.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. People who're capable of believing ANYTHING, no matter how insane
are well on their way to being capable of doing anything as well, no matter how insane.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Such as believing that deregulating the gun industry makes them safer
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. The gun industry was regulated?
One of the least regulated industries in this country. Fireworks and cars are more regulated.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. And this guy seems to want to get rid of that little bit....
Hard to see how that does anything except make life mnore dangerous for convenience store clerks, cops and the families of gun owners...
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, they've definatly pushed people to the edge.
You're not the first person I've heard make that point at all. People are feeling very pushed by all the hate against us coming out of the mainstream media. United we stand; someday people are going to wake up and look at the vast damage to this country people like Rush Limbaugh have done.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. excellent point.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:25 PM by obxhead
gun laws don't stop law breakers from getting the guns they want. If someone plans on using a gun to kill someone else I doubt they will have second thoughts about getting a gun they want or need by other illegal means.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. This reminds me of a dream I had last night.
I had this dream I was fighting criminals and had a pistol was painted spiderman colors, and when I found the bullets to load the clip, they were square, like Pez candy, and I only had two. This is a reoccuring dream, having lots of guns and very few bullets. I'm sure it has some deep pychological meaning but I'm not sure what it is..
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Very well said.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Let's do away with laws since they don't stop criminals
Laws must do a lot of good if they keep similar nation's murder rates muliples less than the USA's. I know, the RBKA extremists will say Americans aren't as good a people as Europeans, Australians, Canadians, Kiwis. Japanese etc but we know it's easy access to guns.

Here's how Harvard Health policy professor David Hemenway explains it.

"Statistically, the United States is not a particularly violent society. Although gun proponents like to compare this country with hot spots like Colombia, Mexico, and Estonia (making America appear a truly peaceable kingdom), a more relevant comparison is against other high-income, industrialized nations. The percentage of the U.S. population victimized in 2000 by crimes like assault, car theft, burglary, robbery, and sexual incidents is about average for 17 industrialized countries, and lower on many indices than Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.

"The only thing that jumps out is lethal violence," Hemenway says. Violence, pace H. Rap Brown, is not "as American as cherry pie," but American violence does tend to end in death. The reason, plain and simple, is guns. We own more guns per capita than any other high-income countrymaybe even more than one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country. A 1994 survey numbered the U.S. gun supply at more than 200 million in a population then numbered at 262 million, and currently about 35 percent of American households have guns. (These figures count only civilian guns; Switzerland, for example, has plenty of military weapons per capita.)

"It's not as if a 19-year-old in the United States is more evil than a 19-year-old in Australiathere's no evidence for that," Hemenway explains. "But a 19-year-old in America can very easily get a pistol. That's very hard to do in Australia. So when there's a bar fight in Australia, somebody gets punched out or hit with a beer bottle. Here, they get shot."

In general, guns don't induce people to commit crimes. "What guns do is make crimes lethal," says Hemenway. They also make suicide attempts lethal: about 60 percent of suicides in America involve guns. "If you try to kill yourself with drugs, there's a 2 to 3 percent chance of dying," he explains. "With guns, the chance is 90 percent."
-----------snip---------------------------------------------------
<http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/090433.html >
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. take a look at DC gun laws
Seems to be doing a lot of good there.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Take a look at Massachussetts gun laws and Europe, Japan, Canada, etc.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 04:21 PM by billbuckhead
Massachussetts has lowest homicide rate of states with large urban population centers. Japan and Ireland have virtually no guns and no murders with guns.

Don't pick on the DC which is governed by Congress. Still, DC actually has a lower murder rate than nearby Richmond which is in gun loving Virginia. The highest murder rates areas are dominated by gun loving red states like Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida.

And here's the link that proves it.<http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime3.aspx >
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Shoeempress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Damn, you sound a bit extreme, and hubby and I have a gun. (Not
for personal protection, just target shooting). I don't believe 99% of the GOP members are total neocon nazis with a desire to hurt anyone. Might want to calm down a bit, although get a gun if it makes you feel better. Just be careful. And welcome to DU
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The Jacobin Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I own two guns.
A rifle and a shotgun. Both are stored in the attic outside of hunting season.

I think they are far to serious a threat for accidents to keep around loaded for personal protection. I'm much more likely to die in a car wreck or a heart attack or skin cancer than I am to be killed by an intruder.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I choose not to own any either
Because I like to get shitface drunk from tme to time, and responsible gun ownership means that the twain shall never meet. But I totally support those who own them!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Maybe not total neocon Nazis, but they keep drinking the kool-aid
What percentage of the GOP members would you say were neocon Nazis?

The fact that most members of the GOP keep voting Republicans into office, who for the most part march in lock step with their neocon Nazi brothers and sisters, would indicate that you might be incorrect.

Remember this, not all Germans were members of the Nazi Party, but the vast majority of the German people supported what Hitler was doing.

The Religious Right in alliance with the neocons are a dangerous combination, and we would be better served to expect the worst from them and their supporters, besides, the German Jews didn't think their Gentile neighbors would turn against them either.

Six million dead later, and they finally figured out they were wrong too.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. So let's shoot a few....
"not all Germans were members of the Nazi Party, but the vast majority of the German people supported what Hitler was doing."
Funny thing...today every humhole wearing a swastika is spouting off against gun control, and gun shows are lousy with Nazi memorabilia and hate literature.

"The Religious Right in alliance with the neocons are a dangerous combination"
So how does beocming a left wing version of the Aryan Nation help?
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. yep........nt
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. well that would be great for the gun manufacturers
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:50 PM by sui generis
pretty soon they'd have enough political muscle to make it illegal to take a crap without a loaded and cocked weapon laying in your lap.

Personally, I have to agree with the "if you're a criminal you lose your right to own or carry a weapon" idea.

It's a lot harder to defend gun rights for criminals than it is to point at "gun grabbers" and yell fire.

edited for professor spell check down there }(

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. They will NEVER have polical muscle.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. urk?
I could be wrong, but guessing that NRA certainly does. It would be pure fantasy to think that they don't have strong conjugal relations with the manufacturing industry, since both benefit mutually from their current political lobby.

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I don't even know what polical is.....
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. inhale
it's a lot more fun if you inhale

funny guy.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. It's no coincidence that the GOP push "You gotta get a gun"
"Gun rights" is a totally dishonest and lousy idea, promoted by some of the scummiest people in public life....
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James T. Kirk Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. What makes you think Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were Republicans?
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. 'tsokay
I occasionally confuse neocons and nutjob republicans myself. Not all neocons are republicans and vice versa, but I haven't met any of those.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. :)
:silly:
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Never turn to the dark side
Don't forget your principles
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. Oh my god... we better conduct a pre-emptive strike!
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:42 PM by HEyHEY
AHHHHH!!!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. You can hide under the bed....
but brain damage is under the bed....(to quote Donald Barthelme)....

Rudolph is in jail and McVeigh is dead...better get two guns (one for each)....

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Unfortunately, I've reached
pretty much the same conclusion.

I don't own a gun, or know how to use one..but I'm keeping my eye on this for further developements.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. "gun control" does not equate "no right to bear arms"
Most civilized nations have both gun control and the right to bear arms.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. Locking
This thread is veering perilously close to advocating civil war.
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