Your 1st thoughts when you first heard about London?

[carrowsboy]

What was the first thought that went through your head?

Mine: Well, there goes the Plame case and now Bush gets more "support" for his fake war.

[bufffbison]

1. opposite

first thought people would be angered and waking up to the real world, realizing bush's lies

[Katherine2]

13. My first thought was, Thank God,

we'll finally get rid of Natalee's mother and her husband "Tug".

Edit -- I meant "Jug" Twitty.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

84. My thoughts...

1) Oh no, not again.
2) I hope it's only the tube bombs and nothing worse.
3) My mother must be worried sick about me.

[BornaDem]

89. Heard it on 5:30 am radio news and quickly flicked on TV...

guess it isn't real until you see it, not just hear it. My first thought was about how calm all the commuters with bandages and blood on them looked and wrote that off to shock, but the others milling around who apparently were not involved in the bombing looked calm too, like everybody is conditioned to it. Will we look like that too if they start blowing up malls, public transportation, etc. here? How many bombings or jihadi murders does it take to condition the population to not be horrified and to be passive and calm like it's an everday occurrence?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

93. I would suggest...

...that the scale of these attacks was closer to the scale of the 1993 WTC attack, rather than 9/11. It *does* make a lot of difference. If the houses of parliament were destroyed and several large buildings taken out, I'm sure the scene would be quite different.

[genius]

78. Bush got away with it on 9/11 and he thinks he'll get away with London.

If Democrats are afraid to discuss Bush's obvious complicity, then he will and there will be another and another until he and his friends are put behind bars where they belong.

[Tommymac]

92. Horror.

How could this happen again? Empathy for the victims....and also anger that the US press was falling all over itself spreading fanatical speculations,hate, and exploiting this horrible act. Anger that they never talk about Difur; or the innocents in Bahgdad...or the crime victims in our own Ghettoes...or show our own fallen heroes' return home...(yes, I support our troops, but I don't support the civilian leaders who send them to die in illegal wars). A sense of failure...a longing for the Clinton years when we actually stopped terrorists before they struck...and finally a small niggling doubt about who the perpetrators really were...the timing was so convenient for * and company...and anger and disgust that this administration has lied so much to make even considering what up until now would be the unthinkable thinkable.

[tiptoe]

97. ditto...Liars Bush & Blair have more blood on their hands...Galloway...

British MP Galloway Tells Blair and Bush To Resign

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[Sannum]

2. What the fuck are we doing in Iraq

Second thought...The same as you.

[Imagevision]

117. Doing In Iraq?? - Attempting to control the flow of OIL - under the guise

of spreding democracy - Do you think Bushco would have invaded I raq if it had the world's largest ...peanut farms? By the same token, the "terrorists" know they lose if Bush finish's establishing US. Military bases of which at least 10 already have been built.

[forintegrity]

3. I had similar thoughts...

It's another excuse for Bush and Co. to stay in Iraq and, what are we being distracted from?

[tulsakatz]

17. I had a similar thought......

.....that was actually my first thought. You know, every time Bush is in trouble, something always seems to happen to remind us of terrorism.

But then, today I was at work and a few people were talking about what happened in London. There is a guy who sits near me and this guy doesn't even follow politics, at all!! Anyway, he made a comment......something like 'but we got Saddam while bin Laden is walking around a free man!'

It was a fun moment and reminded me that the average person, (whether they follow politics or not) must see how ridiculous it was to go after Saddam when we should have kept looking for bin Laden!!

[CJCRANE]

127. Ohmigod...

I've only just remembered this, but a few days before I told a friend of mine about Plamegate (he'd never of it) and to watch the news next week (for a mention of Rove's name) or look out for a distraction/incident...

(Not that I think it's possible, just seems like a coincidence).

On edit: My friend just looked at me like I'm some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist just like he always does...except the reality is that just about everything I've predicted to him has happened (which is due to being an avid DUer) such as no WMD, Bin Laden October Surprise, increased terrorism after Iraq war etc etc..

[Lars39]

4. The hurt and injured, the dead.

[candy]

10. I'm with you! I heard about at 5:30 AM EDT while in my car and I

was horrified. I was picking up my daughter to take her to the airport. I gave no thought to politics.

I can't imagine that anyone would.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woodleydem]

58. Right on. Politics was the farthest thing from my mind. Thoughts were

with the injured. I did think that hopefully this would spur Congress to secure our mass transit systems. (I just saw that Biden will be proposing a $1.2 billion bill to secure our public transportation and railway systems. Long overdue IMO.)

[Cha]

5. My thoughts went to the People

who are affected by this terror that bush and blair wrought.

I was pissed all day that we predicted this would happen and they called us a "fringe group"!

bush and blair had Oil in their eyes!

[grannylib]

6. I just wept. Had a hard time driving to work. And then I thought,

"yeah, right...safer world, you bet, you little pansy-ass cowardly fuck..."

How could this have happened, anyway? Saddam's locked up, right?
Wonder how long it will be before the Chimp spouts his little "..and our nation and the world are safer" line again. What a lying sack of shit.

[NoSheep]

30. Amen grannylib!!!

[paineinthearse]

7. Mine were "who's behind it and who benefits"?

* and *

[leesa]

8. BushCo pulled it off. We have thought he would need to do something

but knew he couldn't do it here. How long have we waited for the next strike as his failures and crimes stacked up.

[zann725]

43. My very first gut-feeling was MIHOP? My very first.

I looked at the things in the news that needed distracting from:
Rove-gate, DSM, growing anti-war sentiment, leader's(s') falling approval ratings...AND the G8. Blair HAD expressed his disappointment PRIOR to G8 with Shrub's position on Global Warming. And Britain had already announced they were pulling troops out of Iraq. Why would Terrorists attack a country that was doing what they asked?

[mountainvue]

9. That was one of them. n/t

[nashville_brook]

11. mine was -- confusion, cognitive dissonance

too perfect. too tidy. there is no clear benefit to islamists targeting london tubes. last i heard they were using washing machine timers for their ied's -- nothing seems improvised about this attack.

[johncoby2]

12. Better them than us.

That is what I thought the spinster would say.

[nashville_brook]

14. and too -- this hasn't bumped plame.

it's been getting even more coverage today than yesterday. the folks who are covering plame -- the real journalists, not those tv-dolls -- are doing a whole different kind of reporting. it's a long, hard slog as someone once said. maybe the london tube bombing gets air friday and over the weekend. maybe it carries into next month. plame will still be there. the prosecuter isn't running over to london to "cover that story." it's whole diff ball of wax.

[aquart]

15. I have to find out if Jilly's okay.

My cousin. She works at the BBC. When I turned on my pc on the morning of 9/11, there was already a message from her, asking if I was okay.

She got right back to me. But was having a busy day.

[NoSheep]

34. I hope you find Jilly to be safe. I too have friends, family in England.

On and after 9-11, I felt as if the entire world were my neighbors and friends. I hope we can send that message to those who have, are and will suffer from this tragedy. Those of us who can, in the name of all those who have personal loss, I believe we should fight with all our might to root out the causes of this evil. And if we find it amongst ourselves, then that is where I will take the fight.

[aquart]

44. Jilly's fine.

But it was a very busy day for her at the BBC.

[zulchzulu]

16. 911 revisited...then seeing Chimpy on the tube...I got the heeby jeebies..

I said a prayer for the lost and injured. But seeing Chimpy's goddamn smug expression on his face when all the leaders gathered around Blair, I have to admit I was a tad upset.

[FW_]

18. I ran to my phone and

called all my friends who live in London and made sure they were ok. Didn't find out until a couple of hours ago that they're all fine and safe.

[burrowowl]

20. Yes, especially his

narcissistic they are firm against 'terraism' like me.

[burrowowl]

19. Negropote did it

to bolster Bu$h and make everyone forget about anything else. The people who claimed to have done it sound awefully phony.

Condolences to the Brits.

[DWolper]

21. Felt horrible....Nothing more/Nothing less.....

I wasn't thinking politics. As an old man, I must say that this immediate calculation of political ups and downs is a recent phenom of horrible divisions in this country. Times have changed.

[Hidden Stillness]

42. Beautiful Thoughts--Agree

People are changing, step by step, from the "lofty, expansive" sense of history that locates itself in the world and among people--moral and intellectual--to the cut-off and constricted perspective of the corporate media that only presents people and events to us, to use them as items of propaganda or to sell something. It kills the natural human connection with people and the larger world, and makes them all seem like fake images, and feel like nothing. Dangerous, because it allows a loss of the real, viceral connection, and replaces it with merely looking and listening, from a technological distance.

[theoldgeezer]

82. This will probably get me kicked off here

since I see trying to be reasonable and sensible, focused on what I see as essential national issues has already caused people to be angry at me... ( confused? so am I now... )...

But I agree with you. I can't imagine even dreaming the things that I'm reading in this thread. I still recall a time when people would not accuse another of such until they had proof in hand...and then they thought twice and studied it again.

Bush ordered bombings in London?

My God... Are you people insane?

I just can't go that far. I think back over the years... No president I can think of can I even IMAGINE ordering such a thing, including the current one. If you can think that evil of a person you don't know personally, and have no evidence of... I mean, Saddam, we know he ordered torture and killings. Various tyrants in history, did this kind of stuff... But to imagine that a US president, including ALL THE PEOPLE who would have to be in this loop, are such calculated monsters that they just do this without hesitation. No, I can't buy it. I can't go there. I just see no rational means of getting there.

[Tommymac]

90. I can.

Not saying they did it, but they have lied to us at every turn....I have no trust or confidence in them. After the lies they used to get us into Iraq, I believe they are capable of almost anything in order to protect themselves.

I will await the evidence from trustworthy sources,...judge from that, and keep an open mind. All possibilities are open.

[FloridaPat]

22. Mine: yesterday England decided to pull out their soldiers from Iraq.

Today they got a "terrorist attack". An Israeli financial expert didn't show up to his speech because he got the word early. I point a finger at our own government and/or Israel. I believe the people that bombed Britian caused 9-11 - and it wasn't Arabs./

[DoYouEverWonder]

119. I'm with you - see my sign line

and I do remember hearing the original report the DAY BEFORE the attack, that Britain was pulling their troops out of Iraq.

Bu$h's numbers are in the toilet, Plamegate is about to burst open, Bu$h fell off his bicycle again and was making a complete ass of himself at the G8, and once again Osama delivers just in time. Give me a fucking break already.

Listen there is no order from the President or anyone else at the top. That is not how this shit works. It works because Bu$hCo has created the climate for it to work in. Piss off half the people in the world, create 1000's of terrorists who have nothing left to lose because you already took it all, get the poppy fields back on line and sit back and rake in the profits. That's how its done and its happened again.

Too bad I posted one of the first threads to raise this issue and the mods locked it. But that was before it was acceptable to even discuss these possibilities. I'm just glad that idea didn't last more then a couple of hours.

[Dervill Crow]

133. And now I heard Blair say they are "staying the course."

Of course my heart and prayers are for the people of London. My first thought probably was one of absolute horror and compassion for the victims and their families, but my second thought was who did it and why, and I'm pretty sure it's punishment for daring to defy *.

[zinndependence]

23. very sad

[Booster]

24. First thought: "Damn you Bush".

[sojourner]

25. Thank God Bush is President

No I didn't. I thought they made it happen again. Just in time for the G-8 (perhaps sends a message to Mr. Blair, too) as well as to distract from Plamegate, and the Supreme nominations -- just in time to make the sheeple say "See our President stand firm against terror"...."Everyone bow down to the President".

When things get nasty this bunch of creeps get downright vicious. They will do anything...ANYTHING...to stay in power. So it's not a huge surprise that our poor allies suffered this loss. Bush was taking a beating in the polls and beginning to take some flack in the media. Remember how during the Presidential campaign everytime he got in a pickle they increased the terror alert?

This is the same thing - I honestly feel this in my gut - only this time, they know we wouldn't have responded to another senseless elevated threat warning. Better to let us get another taste of death and destruction.

Watch them make political hay out of this. Bastards.

[JHBowden]

26. felt fed up with the jihadists

a recent history of events which is by no means comprehensive--

* 11/17/1997 Luxor: Islamic terrorists slaughter tourists: 77 killed, mostly European & Japanese
* 1/24/1998 Wandhama massacre-- Islamists massacre Kashmiri Pandits in India: 27 killed
* 8/1/1998 Dar es Saalam & Nairobi -- at America embassies Islamists kill 225, injure 4000
* 8/31-9/22/1999 Russian apartment bombings, 300 killed
* 8/12/2000 Aden, Yemen. USS Cole attacked: 17 killed, 39 injured
* 8/9/2001 Sbarro bombed in Jerusalem, 15 killed, 130 wounded
* 9/11/2001 Attacks for NYC, DC: 2,986 killed
* 12/13/2001 Indian Parliament stormed by Islamist gunmen: 12 killed, 7 injured
* 8/26/2002 Islamists take hostages at House of Culture, Moscow: 120 killed
* 10/12/2002 Bali bombing outside nightclubs: 202 killed, 209 injured
* 3/4/2003 Davao (Philippines) bomb attack in airport, 21 killed
* 5/16/2003 Casablanca: 41 dead, 100 injured in Islamist attacks against "western and jewish targets"
* 7/5/2003: Moscow, rock concert, bombing kills 15, 40 wounded
* 10/4/2003 Haifa: Maxim restaurant massacre, 21 dead 51 wounded
* 11/15/2003 Istanbul synagogue bombings: 27 killed, 400 wounded
* 11/20/2003 Istanbul British consulate and HSBC banking bombings, 30 killed, 400 wounded
* 9/1-3/2004 Beslan school massacre, 344 killed, including 172 schoolchildren
* 3/11/2004 Madrid Train bombings, 191 killed +1800 wounded
* 9/9/2004 Jakarta, Australian embassy bombed, 11 killed, 140 wounded
* 10/7/2004 Taba & Nuweiba, Egypt. Attacks against Israeli tourists, 32 killed, 114 injured
* 7/7/2005 London bombings, 38 killed, 700 injured

[DWolper]

31. Very Impressive Work

Impressive list work there.

I wish others here at DU could see that this threat is real and radical Islam is as dangerous an enemy the world has known in a long time. More so than the worst of enemies in many ways, as they operate outside of governmental channels. The constant blame on Bush is old. He has made more than a few mistakes, but to blame Bush before the Islamic nuts is ridiculous. As you have shown with this list - these fascists, with a bomb in one hand and their holy book in another, have caused chaos for a long, long time.

[FogerRox]

49. these fascists are in the White House

Yeah I blame Bush, because all this shit happened on his watch--just like CLinton killed 500k Iraqs, with sanctions. I blame Clinton for that, and BLame Bush for this.

Blaming Bush is not old--its the truth

[leftynyc]

61. Amen - I fear that too many

are letting their feelings for bush and co color their thinking. The facts are that there are very dangerous people out there who kill in the name of Allah and bush has nothing to do with it in a lot of cases. Blame him for what he's actually responsible for (Iraq) but blaming him for everything and seeing a conspiracy behind every corner will (I'm afraid) make people take you much less seriously.

[CAcyclist]

64. Bush IS To Blame

Clinton STOPPED the terrorists . He CAUGHT them and put them on trial and put them in jail, and because of that, we had foreknowledge of the Millenium Plot and he PREVENTED it.

Bush just left our country wide open, whether because he knew beforehand or was just incompetent wastrel that he is. Bush is WASTING our resources in Iraq!

OF COURSE, we KNOW the terrorist threat is real - who the hell do you think you are to tell me what I think !!!. That is why we need a real leader - one who sees the real threats and GOES AFTER THEM.

[Igel]

86. Catching the Millennium Plot guy, by all accounts, was a fluke.

Intelligence didn't work; a suspicious border control employee did.

Clinton did what he could. Some attacks did, nonetheless, occur--just not in the US.

He is no more to blame for the attacks that occurred than * is: the attackers bear primary responsibility, something that is sadly overlooked by some people. (How many people, exactly, I prefer not to think about.)

Both deification and villification are unsound. Hindsight is a useful tool for figuring out corrective measures, but a difficult metric for assigning blame and guilt, and praise and accolades. The measure no more be, Who screwed up? than it can be, What attacks were prevented? I would opt for the following, which are those I'd like to see applied to me in my work: Who screwed up in a way that they reasonably were expected to have avoided?, and, Who prevented attacks by means of above average acumen and effort? By my preferred measures, it's a wash.

[Tommymac]

91. Counter List for consideration.

(This was posted the other day in a thread here. Kudos to the original poster....sorry, I lost the post link.)

http://www.mikehersh.com/printer_Clinton_vs_Terror_Repu...

Clinton vs. Terror, Republicans vs. Clinton

By original author unknown - search ongoing, Apr 16, 2004

President Clinton led the fight against terrorism over strong opposition from Republicans in Congress and the pro-Republican Media. Here's a partial - yet incredibly long - list of accomplishments against terrorism for which the Clinton Administration gets almost no credit or even recognition. President Clinton:

-- sent legislation to Congress to TIGHTEN AIRPORT SECURITY. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.

-- sent legislation to Congress to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF TERRORIST FUNDING. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.

-- sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF EXPLOSIVES USED BY TERRORISTS. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.

When Republicans couldn't prevent executive action, President Clinton:

-- Developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

--Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up Boston airport.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

-- Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.

-- Tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).

-- Brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.

-- Did not blame Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after they had left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.

-- Named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.

-- Tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.

-- Detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries

-- Created a national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.

-- Robert Oakley, Reagan Counterterrorism Czar says of Clinton's efforts "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama"

-- Paul Bremer, Bush's Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley saying he believed the Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden. "

-- Barton Gellman of the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort."



Here, in stark contrast, is part of the Bush-Cheney anti-terrorism record before September 11, 2001:

-- Backed off Clinton administration's anti-terrorism efforts.

-- Shelved the Hart-Rudman report.

-- Appointed new anti-terrorism task force under Dick Cheney. Group did not even meet before 9/11.

-- Called for cuts in anti-terrorism efforts by the Department of Defense.

-- Gave no priority to anti-terrorism efforts by Justice Department.

-- Ignored warnings from Sandy Berger, Louis Freeh, George Tennant, Paul Bremer, and Richard Clarke about the urgency of terrorist threats.

-- Halted Predator drone tracking of Osama bin Laden.

-- Did nothing in wake of August 6 C.I.A. report to president saying Al Qaeda attack by hijack of an airliner almost certain.

-- Bush - knowing about the terrorists' plans to attack in America, warned that terrorists were in flight schools in the US - took a four week vacation.

-- By failing to order any coordination of intelligence data, missed opportunity to stop the 9/11 plot as Clinton-Gore had stopped the millennium plots.

-- Blamed President Clinton for 9/11.

© Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 by MikeHersh.com and identified authors. MikeHersh.com invites you to broadcast any material at this site, provided you identify the source as MikeHersh.com. All Internet, email and other summaries, excerpts or other written reproductions must include this blurb and a link to http://www.MikeHersh.com .

[CJCRANE]

51. Yes

but just flip that round and show how many innocent civilians have been killed by Israel, Russia and the America and you'll get a different story. Killing innocent people is wrong but not every evil in the world is committed by muslims just for the hell of it.

[JHBowden]

95. If Islamic extremists were simply targeting people in one country,

that would be one thing. But they have been going all out against the Phillipines, India, Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom, Spain, Indonesia, Kenya, Israel, Tanzania, and Turkey, to mention a few.

The Muslim extremists are the problem, not the civilized world. And yes, America is more civilized than nations like Iran, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia.

[CJCRANE]

111. You can prove anything with unrelated statistics

Nearly 1,000,000 people killed in Rwanda by Rwandan Christians
Approx 100,000 civilians dies in Iraq War by "christian" troops
Nearly 30,000 homicides in USA committed by predominantly christians
Most crime in S America committed by christians
Most crime in Europe committed by christians
Many wars in Africa involve Christians

Some-one who was anti-Christian could easily pull together all the crimes and violence committed by Christians and nominal christian countries all over the world in N and S America, Europe, Africa etc to show how evil christians were. But the world is full of people and full of violence, some of it is carried out by muslims because some of the human race are muslims but there is more than enough violence carried out by christians and other types of people.

[JHBowden]

122. Comparing A with B still affirms A.

Comparing the presence of terrorism by Islamic extremists with local crimes and civil wars doesn't change the fact that Islamic extremists are a problem that must be dealt with.

[CJCRANE]

126. You're doing the same thing to a certain extent.

But ok, Islamic extremists are a problem so let the countries that have a problem with them deal with them.

[LibertyorDeath]

75. Investigate before you promulgate your list needs revision

Things are not always what they seem.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-07-05 08:20 PM
Original message
BFEE is more than capable of bombing their own countrymen.


While I don't know who or what is responsible for the London bombings, I do know that the Bush Transnational Criminal Enterprise is more than capable of bombing their own.

If you don’t agree. Great. I respect your opinion.

But you may not have read about the Bolgna train station bombing in 1980, the CIA attack on Sheikh Fadlallah in 1985 or Operation NORTHWOODS of 1962.





In Bologna, ultra-rightwing Operation GLADIO operatives killed 85 people and wounded hundreds more in an attempt to lay blame on the left: from the liberals and progressives to the socialists and commies.



THE BOLOGNA TRAIN STATION BOMBING

A huge explosion at the Bologna train station two years after Moro's death may have whitened the hair of many Italians - not just for the grisly toll of 85 killed and more than 200 injured - but for the official inaction that followed. Although the investigating magistrates suspected neofascists, they were unable to issue credible arrest warrants for more than two years because of false data from the secret services. By that time, all but one of the five chief suspects, two of whom had ties to SID, had skipped the country. 74 The T4 explosive found at the scene matched the Gladio material used in Brescia, Peteano and other bombings, according to expert testimony before Judge Mastelloni. 75

In the trial, the judges cited the ``strategy of tension and its ties to `foreign powers.''' They also found the secret military and civilian structure tied into neofascist groups, P-2, and the secret services. 76 In short, they found the CIA and Gladio.

But their efforts to exact justice for the Bologna bombing came to nothing when, in 1990, the court of appeals acquitted all the alleged ``brains.'' P-2 head Gelli went free, as did two secret service chiefs whose perjury convictions were overturned. Four gladiators convicted of participating in an armed group also won appeals. That left Peteano as the only major bombing case with a conviction of the actual bomber, thanks to Vinciguerra's confession.

The sorry judicial record in these monstrous crimes showed how completely the Gladio network enveloped the army, police, secret services and the top courts. Thanks to P-2, with its 963 well-placed brothers, 77 the collusion also extended into the top levels of media and business.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FRUITS OF GLADIO

By the early 1980s, however, court data revealed enough CIA fingerprints to provoke strong anti-U.S. sentiment. In 1981, the offices of three U.S. firms in Rome were bombed. In 1982, the Red Brigades kidnapped James L. Dozier, a U.S. general attached to NATO, calling him a ``Yankee hangman.'' 78 He was freed after five weeks by police commandos, reportedly with the help of the CIA's Mafia connections. 79 But damage to the U.S. image has been remarkably constrained considering what the U.S. did to Italian society and government for 50 years in the name of anticommunism.

CONTINUED…

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gladio.html







Remember St. Ronnie Pruneface's CIA director, Poppy Bush's one-time campaign manager and all around family friend, Mr. William Casey? He, a Roman Catholic, authorized the bombing of a certain Sheikh who may've been a bastard, but certainly wasn't a bastard worth killing 80 innocent people over in 1985.



Lebanon: Another civil war the United States felt compelled to take part in, leading to the terrible bombings of the American Embassy and Marine barracks in 1983, followed, in December of that year, by American ships firing some 700 shells into the Beirut mountains, missing their military targets but causing destruction in civilian areas. In 1985, William Casey and a Saudi prince conspired to eliminate Muslim leader Sheikh Fadlallah, believed to be connected to the attacks on the American facilities. This plot culminated in March when the men employed to carry out the elimination drove a car bomb into a Beirut suburb near Fadlallah's residence. The explosion took 80 lives, wounded 200, and left widespread devastation. Fadlallah escaped without injury.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Reagan_CIA.html







NORTHWOODS was a strategy proposed by the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff to stage terrorist incidents involving American citizens, including hijacking airliners, to build public support for an invasion of Cuba. The plan was rejected by President John F. Kennedy who then fired the Chairman of the JCS, Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer. Here’s a very good overview:



OPERATION NORTHWOODS:
US PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS
TO CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR

From BODY OF SECRETS, James Bamford, Doubleday, 2001, p.82 and following. Scanned and edited by NY Transfer News.

...In Lemnitzer's view, the country would be far better off if the generals could take over.

For those military officers who were sitting on the fence, the Kennedy administration's botched Bay of Pigs invasion was the last straw. "The Bay of Pigs fiasco broke the dike," said one report at the time. "President Kennedy was pilloried by the super patriots as a 'no-win' chief . . . The Far Right became a fount of proposals born of frustration and put forward in the name of anti-Communism. . . Active-duty commanders played host to anti-Communist seminars on their bases and attended or addressed Right-wing meetings elsewhere."

Although no one in Congress could have known it at the time, Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge.
According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba.

CONTINUED…

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html



Gee. I guess we can’t all be good guys. Especially when our government adopts the means and methods of the enemy to defeat communism then, terrorism today and, when Rove gets his way, liberalism.





This guy got "fired" for opposing the right wing in Cuba, Vietnam and a probably a whole lot of places we haven't heard about.

"You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea." -- Medgar Evans

[JHBowden]

123. Think.

The attack hurts Bush. It undermines a piece of reasoning that suggests nation building in the middle east has the benefit that we don't have to fight terrorists in our own countries.

[Dem4now]

79. You forgot to include islamic fanatics attacks going back to

the 8th century in India. The savage barabarism continued
until the muslim rulers were defeated militarily in the 1600's
by hindu warlords. The terrorism continues but on a much smaller
scale. Recent attacks include firebombing a train loaded with
hindu pilgrims in central India, bombs targetting crowded civilian
areas in Bombay, on and on. All in the name of Allah.

[NMDemDist2]

94. I wonder where the comparable "Christian" list is? Starting with the

Inquisition, the Crusades (8 of them IIRC), the Native American genocide, the Colonial expansion of the European countries of India, South America, and Asia.

Not to mention both World Wars were started between "Christian" countries.

Wars and attacks on "the others" in the name of religion is not confined to the Islamic Fundamentalists.

Just saying......

[JHBowden]

96. I'm concerned about events in my lifetime.

Violence in the past was reprehensible, yes. But much of the attacks against the civilized world since the 1990s have been coming from the jihadists.

[NMDemDist2]

104. ummm Have you taken a look at the actions of the US in S. America?

we have supported, supplied and armed horrible dictators for decades.

Is it ok to kill civilians if you are the government then?

[JHBowden]

121. Stopping Communism was a worthwhile goal.

Much of what went on back in the 1900s was a choice between evil and really evil. Remember, the Communist machine killed millions upon millions of people last century.

Over the last 10-15 years, a growing problem has been the jihadists. As much as I dislike Bush, the problem has been around before he was appointed to be president by a 5-4 vote.

[Donailin]

110. around 10000?

how many innocent civilians have been killed by US armed forces over the last ten years?

Let's compare and contrast.

[JHBowden]

124. Did you know that blueberries taste sweet?

People think they can deny that A exists by showing that A and an arbitrary B exists. This isn't logical reasoning.

I said that Islamic terrorism is a problem I'm fed up with. People assert, did you know that America helped anti-communist thugs back in the 1950s? You might as well say, did you know the Challenger disaster occurred in 1986?

[CJCRANE]

125. Islamic terrorism is a problem

but the Bush cure is much worse than the actual problem, and also helps to make the problem worse.

[Donailin]

130. Nope sorry

It's all relative. You say that Islamic terrorists are a problem. Many others say that US foreign policy is the root of that problem. The fact is that the amount of unwarranted death and destruction caused by terrorists does not hold a candle to State Sponsored terrorism via US of A.

Get it?

[NoSheep]

27. How convenient. I'll bet the bombs have been there for 2 yrs-

waiting for the necessity for a "terrorist" strike.

[DWolper]

32. Wow

I truly feel sad that some Democrats cannot see the reality of the Islamic holy war on the West. What a shame. It's always the fault of the USA and our Allies to some. I find that very, very sad.

[JHBowden]

33. I guess all of the attacks I listed above are a conspiracy.

Yeah, the kids at Beslam, the Jewish tourists in Egypt, the bombing of the embassies under President Clinton -- it is all a conspiracy by Bush and Blair.

While I want more Democrats in office, anyone who makes excuses for religious nuts should be ashamed.

No wonder Rove can get away with his "therapy" comment.

[woodleydem]

60. FINALLY some sense around here. I am as die-hard blue as any Democrat,

but the looney, wild-eyed conspiracy theory stuff I have been reading around here has shocked me. Bush is an idiotic, bumbling politician, but to say that HE planned all of these savage attacks is not only ridiculous, but it gives Democrats a bad name. If Democrats want to win any post-9/11 Presidential elections, we have to start gaining credibility in the eyes of the American people that we are equipped to handle radical fundamentalists. Many around here just feed into the stereotype that Democrats want to blame terrorism on anything and everything but terrorists.

[leftynyc]

62. That's why I only come around every so often now

the conspiracy theories are just sad. There are so many things that bush can legitimately be criticized for and yet some feel necessary to blame him (or Israel) if the sun isn't shining today. These people do nothing to help the Democrats.

[TankLV]

39. I find it sad that so may repuke apologists are still willing to cut bunke

boy any slack after all HE put this country and nation thru!

I am very saddened and surprised by this.

What more proof do you people want!!!!!

Look at the pile of mounting evidence!

But I guess it's easier to keep your head firmly up your collective asses than pay attention.

[NoSheep]

41. Thank you for sober comments.

I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[leftynyc]

77. And I find it sad that

not blaming bush for every evil in the world makes me a puke apologist. Keep driving good Democrats away with your hysteria...that'll show em. I don't think your helping anyone but the wingers but hey, knock yourself out.

[NoSheep]

40. I feel truly sad that the Republican party can't see the reality of the

Islamic holy war on the US.

[Igel]

87. Some dems, like some Americans (and the same goes for some Poles,

Chinese, and Burushashki) cannot step outside their narrow circle of concerns to see the world through anybody else's eyes.

They may speak "multicultural" and "diversity", but it's with a thick accent and as a foreign tongue, and you're always left wondering if they know what it is they say. And it's clear that whatever they hear, they translate into terms familiar to them and that they can relate to.

Sometimes the blinkers are cultural, sometimes ideological, sometimes a benighted concern for "fairness" that yields unfairness.

[CJCRANE]

115. There is no Islamic holy war on the west:

19 Saudi hijackers is not an army.
200,000 allied troops invading Iraq is an army.

[AUYellowDog]

28. Crime against humanity

and please don't let the spinsters use this for at least a full 2 days. The second part didn't happen, it took 3 hours.

Brandon

[TankLV]

35. MIHOP. No other way to look at it.

Numbers at all time low.

Indictments soon.

Impeachment talk - SERIOUS impeachment talk without usual giggles.

DSMinutes talk on more stations.

Just too fucking cooincidental this time.

2nd thought - GOD HOW I HATE THAT "MAN" IN OUR WHITE HOUSE!

911 all over again.

If he invades Iran - MIHOP will be proven.

[leftofthedial]

36. MIHOP again

[converted_democrat]

100. Self Delete

[berni_mccoy]

37. First thoughts/feelings

1. Anguish... hoping no children were hurt
2. No one is safe, not matter what countries are invaded
3. Bush has made the U.S. weaker through the Illegal Iraq War
4. Bush should pay for making the U.S. more VULNERABLE
5. Bush and Blair's illegal activities caused it
6. Anger that my boys may be drafted to fignt because of this Administration's FUCK UPS.

[IndianaGreen]

38. I cursed Blair for putting Bush ahead of the British people!

Robert Fisk said it best in today's premium article in The Independent:

Robert Fisk: The reality of this barbaric bombing

If we are fighting insurgency in Iraq, what makes us think insurgency won't come to us?

By Robert Fisk
Published: 08 July 2005

"If you bomb our cities," Osama bin Laden said in one of his recent video tapes, "we will bomb yours." There you go, as they say. It was crystal clear Britain would be a target ever since Tony Blair decided to join George Bush's "war on terror" and his invasion of Iraq. We had, as they say, been warned. The G8 summit was obviously chosen, well in advance, as Attack Day.

And it's no use Mr Blair telling us yesterday that "they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear". "They" are not trying to destroy "what we hold dear". They are trying to get public opinion to force Blair to withdraw from Iraq, from his alliance with the United States, and from his adherence to Bush's policies in the Middle East. The Spanish paid the price for their support for Bush - and Spain's subsequent retreat from Iraq proved that the Madrid bombings achieved their objectives - while the Australians were made to suffer in Bali.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article297623....

[saskatoon]

45. first thought: WANTED FOR ARSON

GEORGE W. BUSH WHO HAS SET THE WORLD ON FIRE!

[XemaSab]

46. Completely nonplussed

My ability to get worked up about anything seems to have been put on permanent vacation since 9-11, indeed, since the beginning of the Bush administration.

It's absolutely awful what happened, but it's awful that we are killing thousands of civilians in Iraq, and it's awful that we're ignoring the deaths of thousands in Darfur and elsewhere. If you think about it too much, you lose the ability to function.

[bigwillq]

47. Oh no. Poor London.

Was what I said and thought about, those poor people.
But then-----
"Well, there goes the Plame case and now Bush gets more "support" for his fake war."
That was my second thought.

[Rambis]

48. Stupid bush puppet

If you didn't follow his sorry ass into Iraq this would not have happened.

[Cynot]

65. Why did terrorist attacks..

such as the first World Trade Center bombing during Clinton's term happen then? Bush, as evil as he is, is not the root cause of all terrorism. It's too simplistic to blame him for everything. Terrorism was happening long before he came on the world stage.

[CJCRANE]

118. Yes, but he's stirred things up and made it much worse

[RollergirlVT]

50. Bush ordered it N/T

[secretpoet]

52. Mine was, What the hell did I miss?

I'd been completely out of contact with news for three days, and I heard it only because my dad was in the other room watching, of all things, ESPN.

Then it was, Ohhh shit.

Then it was, "Does Europe now count as 'over there' instead of 'over here'?"

[dogman]

53. Wes Clark was right!

Iraq is the training ground and the graduates are moving on to Europe.

[mcar]

54. Same first thought I had on 9/11

"Bush is going to kill us all."

[Initech]

55. my first thought was

"What is this war on terror again? Could someone remind me of this thing?"

[Uncle Joe]

56. My first thought was how could Britt Hume

make money on this.

[MojoXN]

57. My first thoughts?

Was it Bush's thugs that orchestrated this, or Blair's, because it sure as hell wasn't Al Qaeda.

[laugle]

59. My first thought was about the blood on Bush's hands,

and the "BIG LIE" that the central front of the terrorists is in IRAQ. See Mr. Moron, terrorists are in many countries. Stop lying!!!!!! Your stinken war has turned Iraq into a haven for terrorists. You are the direct cause for the huge increase of terrorist attacks!!!

[CAcyclist]

63. Mighty Convenient for The Bushies

I had been thinking that Bush needed something to boost his polls. Same thing I was thinking right before 9/11.

But my opinion of this is more that if we hadn't been wasting time pursuing shadows in Iraq, we might have been able to help the British prevent this attack.

[Eloriel]

66. I don't remember my very first thought, but the ones soon after

and continuing uninterrupted, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, are:

Dear God, I am SO freakin' BORED!!

And I don't mean to diminish or ignore the plight of those killed, their families and those injured and otherwise harmed.

But really, this whole thing, this "terrorist" attack, has literally NOTHING to do with my life or our joint life as Americans or even citizens of the world. Bush and Company would love it to be something that makes us fearful, makes us crazy, makes us ready to give up more freedoms. It ain't. It's just a terrorist attack, one that was predicted -- PLANNED for -- expected, anticipated, and in fact something we pretty much asked for because of our own actions.

Ho hum. What else is new?

[Chomp]

67. MIHOP?

Really? Are people serious when they say this?? MIHOP so that Bush can avoid Plamegate? Is that the contention? Blow chunks out of hundreds of people on the London Tube because impeachment chatter is on the rise? And Tony Blair presumably went along with it? And lackies in the British security services carried it out? And presumably Chirac and Koysumi (sp) and Putin are in on it too? That's the story is it?

Jesus, how fukking nauseating.

Please stop it.

[agincourt]

112. We they quit blaming Democrats for terrorism,

I'll quit believing in MIHOP. eom.

[MrSlayer]

68. Iran, Here we come!

That was my first thought.

[Redneck Socialist]

69. Who's bush going to bomb this time? n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

70. That it was the IRA and about the Olympics. I am pretty old.

[deadparrot]

71. It just cemented my belief that

this so-called "War on Terror" did NOTHING to stem terrorist activity.

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. "Brit Hume wasn't there? Pity." j/k nt

[Skittles]

73. wondering about my brother Mark

he's a Brit, works in Piccadilly Circus; received an email that although he's normally at King's Crossing where 21 people were killed he was in Bristol on business at the time

[TheCentepedeShoes]

74. "Now what?"

Woke up about 3:15 Central and wandered into the "office" - the spare bedroom - to log on to DU. I guess the first posts about London were coming in shortly after.

[TriMetFan]

76. I woke up @ 3:15 a.m. Pacific time

and had just gotten on DU to read what was going on in the world, when I read on the boards that London had been bomb. I ran to my t.v. and put it on the American BBC. All that was going through my mind was "oh shit, Fuck!" I woke up my spouse and told her what the hell was going on and to try and call her sister in London. But of course all the phone lines were down. We took turns calling for the next 6 hrs. until we got a hold of my sister in-law. Not knowing if she and her husband were o.k. was hard. Damn I sure hate Bush and his Neo-con Party.

[ribrepin]

80. My, My, that certainly was good timing.

Tanking poll numbers, social security private accounts going down, afraid to send Bolton up because he will be defeated and the Plame case possibly breaking soon.

Yep, George has always had good timing.

[theoldgeezer]

81. My first reaction

was "I wonder who did it and who they want to influence to do what?"

[cleveramerican]

83. ...so we'll be safer over here ...my ass!

this is honestly my first thought upon hearing the news.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

85. Here comes the Gestapo Police State & who will we invade now?

[craychek]

88. First and second thought

First thought: Man I hope that not a lot of people were hurt or killed!

Second thought: Damn... this seems a bit well timed... on a friday, right when this rove thing is going to break out, along with justices resigning... hmmmm...

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

99. I had fallen asleep on the sofa in the front room Wednesday

night and left the TV on. I think it was tuned to HBO but I'm not sure. I woke up at approximately 4:45 AM CDT and started channel surfing, but with every intention of tuning in BBC America at 5:00 AM for the live feed from London.

I came across MSNBC and saw the headlines. I immediately woke my husband and told him of the bombs in London. My first thought was Al Queda or a similiar group. My husband, born and raised in Northern Ireland but now an American citizen, first thought was the Brits will probably try to blame the IRA. As we watched the coverage develop on the Beeb, we both knew that this was somehow tied to Britain's and the US policy in the Middle East.

The other thought that crossed my mind was that how many officers of the Metropolitan London Police were up in Scotland on Thursday shielding Chimpy and Blair from the protestors?

[undeterred]

98. On "Morning Sedition" the "marks" were talking about the Olympics

Like the French would bomb the English over London being chosen.

Thank goodness Rachel Maddow hung around to make sense.

[WLKjr]

101. Oh shit

I was just putting my G/F on a plane from FortWayne IN to DC when I heard. Scared me half to death when they started blaring on CNN that they were tightening DC's security and making it sound like it was going to be bombed.......



Then my girlfriend spoke up and said, "I am sick of hearing about this shit, I wish it would just stop and people would quit worrying about it, because when you worry, then they have got just what they wanted and they have won."


Couldn't have said it better myself!

[atre]

102. "How can I make money off this tragedy?" - Britt Hume

nm

[Endangered Specie]

103. I first thought it was either about the Olympics or the G8 summit...

and that I hope they fry whoever planted the bombs.

[borlis]

105. That was exactly my thought too!!

It just seems that whenever something damaging to bushco is gaining attention, something else just happens to shift the media elsewhere. I am one of the ones who wouldn't be surprised if it was staged.

[FreedomAngel82]

106. I was surprised

but not too surprised. I was expecting something deep down because of everything with Rove and Plame and whatnot. I was glad it wasn't a big kill though and the Brits went on about their day and didn't let it scare them and everything.

[gulliver]

107. Another result of Bush's Folly, the Iraq War. n/t

[agincourt]

108. Karl Rove under fire, Bush at low approval ratings

DSM getting traction in the news. I wondered who in the administration made the phone call to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia to withdraw "god's protection" again. When the media pigs quit blaming Liberals, Moderates or reasonable people for terrorism, then I'll quit believing in MIHOP or LIHOP. The pigs like Rush and Fox news always defacate from their face that WE'RE responsible for terrorism. Until that stops, and I know it never will, I'll always believe something is hideously rotten in Denmark.

[Donailin]

109. First thought? Well isn't that perfect timing.

Not nine days before Bush was forced to go on national TV and plead his case for the war against Iraq because the support has drastically fallen. Plus Rove is about to be named in the Plame case. Plus the the G8 where he would have to give a royal FU to Blair and his plan to curb global warming. Plus the complete BS of doubling the assistance to brown skinned people in poverty by fudging the numbers.

And when I heard that Zarqawi's name being tossed out there within 3 hours of the bombings, I knew I was spot on.

Inside job. what else is new?

[Goldmund]

113. "Time to buy"

[Qanisqineq]

114. That getting rid of Saddam really didn't help the war on terror

First Madrid, now London.

[Roland99]

116. That this is proof that terrorism will not be eliminated in our lifetimes

and sadness and despair for those killed and injured.

[Imagevision]

120. That if The US. Is Hit next? - Will They Attempt To Outdo 9-11?

Being that Bush has portrayed the US. as being the bad-ass we are and Bush's "bring em on" bravado.

[Walt Starr]

128. Mine was, "This is what comes from ignoring Afghanistan

and going into IRaq."

[ticapnews]

129. "Thank God George W. Bush is president"

Right, Rudy?

[ProudDad]

131. I have ridden the Tube in London

My first thoughts were, "there but for the grace of the goddess, go I"

I was struck with sympathy for the poor people who were in those subway cars and busses. I still think that's the most important lesson.



Later, Will Pitt's article brought it home to me that, thanks to *, this is the norm in Iraq. "In Iraq, they call events like this "Tuesday.".

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/070705A.shtml

[Dervill Crow]

132. Bush is showing Blair who's boss. eom