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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:02 PM
Original message
How paranoid am I?
I'm generally not much prone to conspiracy theorizing--but is it too big a coincidence that just a week before bombs go off in London, Bush tries to reconnect Iraq and 9/11? And now Faux News is triumphantly crowing about how the London attacks put the GWOT back "on the front burner" for the G8 leaders? As the Curch Lady would say, how convenient!

So, what's the best way to make a hat out of tinfoil, anyway? Mine keeps sliding down over my eyes...
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Shoeempress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Form around your ears, and welcome to tinfoil land. I moved here
on September 12, 2001 or so.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. and karl rove says:
Rove, the architect behind President Bushs election victories, on Wednesday night told a gathering of the New York Conservative Party that Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.

And now the attack comes right before he was about to be indicted?

Do you wear yours with the shiny or dull side out? ;)
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. You may be right. I may be crazy. Ref: 911 & 775
I can accept a couple of seemingly implausible events in the mix with logic and circumstance, but there comes a point when common sense says enough. The official story is bogus because it defies my gullibility threshold.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for..
Sorry; couldn't resist. Paging mr. Bush....
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. If the numbers are meaningful
The british better watch out on 9-9-9 that their emergency number, like 911 in america.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Mine too.
n/t
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. The timing of this has multiple fingers all pointing to bushco.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:14 PM by dbonds
Whether by proxy, directly, or indirectly through bad policies - everything about this goes to help him.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Shiny side out. It's much more reflective.
:hi:

Sad that our government doesn't deserve more trust than this...
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. The timing was just too perfect for B*sh. And, how interesting...
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:13 PM by Fridays Child
...that a new group, "Al Qaeda in Europe," has rushed in to claim responsibility. This whole thing stinks in technicolor. Even if the group was named "I Told You So," things couldn't be any clearer than they already are.
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree with all of ya...
And even without the hat, it seems like such a losing proposition to fight terrorism with war...It never has worked, never does and never will. So I wish Rove was right in the sense that more people should have talked about indictments and a law enforcement approach, instead of the absurd "act of war" that everybody including Hillary kept yapping about.

The WOT is a scam, and it is propelled by these convenient events. Fighting terrorism with war is like fighting a fire with gasoline. Tony should know better after he did some successful and peaceful work with the IRA.

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NeoTraitors Donating Member (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The Corporate Media is all on the same page.
'The Muslims will not condemn this act.' I have heard that a bunch today. How about you worthless excuses for TV Plastic Heads condemn the acts of illegal war that have led to many, many, innocents dying in Iraq?

Oh yeah, blood is on their hands too.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I totally agree
In many ways the tinfoil hat is irrelevant...When the big picture is such that the terrorists and our government seem to be pushing the same cause (change through broad violence) even though they are coming from different sides, than we can see that there is a problem with the strategy. The tinfoil hat perception is born through perceiving a failed strategy, and that failed strategy should be addressed openly.
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Even stranger...
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:30 PM by DisassemblingHisLies
As I was driving home today, I was thinking back about Rove's recent speech in which he accused Democrats of being soft on terrorism.

Think about it: It was the first time (at least, to my knowledge) an appearance of his was highlighted in the news. He usually stays behind the scenes. Rove wanted these particular new anti-Democratic talking points of his to get wide coverage, but now I'm thinking about the timing & how it seems to have been a convenient lead-in to what happened today.

And at a time when Blair is considering withdrawing British troops from Iraq.

With their endless lies & corruption for the past 4 years, this administration has given us too many reasons not to trust it. No need for tinfoil. That's reality.

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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm somewhat of the same mind
The timing of this is very odd indeed.

Think back before 9/11/01, to 9/10/01. What were the lead stories in the press? Bush's numbers in the tank, the faltering economy, unemployment were all front page articles. 9/11 wiped that off the radar screen for years.

Remember back during the election? Every time bush's numbers were down, they trotted out Ridge with another bogus alert. As Chomsky has pointed out, "pushing the panic button" has been a reliable source of "instant political capital." But with the charade of the "war on terror," bush has this apparently bottomless well of "capital" from which to draw. In fact every time something critical began to gain traction, out came Ridge with another "alert." Of course, after the "election," these alerts mysteriously stopped. (Ridge, after leaving, admitted that they were bogus.)

Now fast forward to today. What was in the news yesterday? Plame, Rove, Miller, etc. The whole cabal was in danger of finally being exposed by the corporate media for their criminality. So now we have this horrific event in London. If one were of the mind that there are no coincidences (I being one), one might think this is as best a deflection that could occur. If such a bombing were to happen in, say, NYC, there would likely be quite a political backlash against the Bush cabal. If such bombings were to happen in, say, Baghdad, nobody would care because, in fact, it happens daily and the corporate media doesn't even mention it. So how about London? They're white english-speaking people, it's not too close, yet not too far away, and it can be spun as bush "keeping the terrorists at bay 'over there'."

I don't know. The timing just sets my intellectual alarms off. Right now, I'm more inclined to believe that this was an event orchestrated by agents of those who would benefit the most from it -- the bush cabal.
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Blair recently declared that he would be withdrawing British troops
from Iraq. If there's one thing Blair needs it's British support for his interest in Iraq.

Btw, your phrasing here is excellent:

"But with the charade of the "war on terror," bush has this apparently bottomless well of "capital" from which to draw."
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. And didn't you find it a bit interesting that Rudy Guiliani just happened
to be in London this morning? :wtf:
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yes! That's too circumstantial.
He was probably in town on behalf of NYC's bid for the Olympics, but still...

Certain things can be timed for the right moment.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. The more crazy you feel, the more normal you are IMHO
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:09 PM by Mandate My Ass
BushCo went into G8 with everything going against them. They could not drum up support for their imperial war plans at home by painting it as a noble enterprise worth dying for, and they desperately need the support of the "coalition of the willing" which has proven itself to be less and less willing to serve as cannon fodder for the MIC. The UK had recently announced plans to pull troops out of Iraq and put them in Afghantistan. Not good if you're waging a campaign to "democratize" the heathens at gunpoint. Ouch!

The Live8 concerts were a huge success and raised awareness of the cavalier attitude the wealthy nations of the world harbor for the oppressed and downtrodden. Why should we care about Africa when the areas in distress have no resources we want?

Tony and Georgie have been duking it out in the press for the past few weeks. Tony needs to save his sorry Poodle ass by finally appearing sympathetic to concerns of his constituents: environment, poverty relief, AIDS awareness and alleviation of crushing poverty and other issues which Bushco adamantly oppose because they address the concerns of about 95% of the world's population.

If I was not initially inclined to think this way, I think the commentators on FoxNews cemented it for me today when they claimed the tragedy in London was a boon for the US, putting terra back on the front pages where it belongs. They speak the unspeakable out loud and dare to portray their inhuman bloodlust as an expression of patriotism and the Bushcho rape-torture-and-pillage strategy as compassionate.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No - the crazier you feel, the crazier you are, IMO.
I don't buy the story you're peddling.
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. With this lying, corrupt administration in charge, it's wise to keep
your eyes open & think. Don't buy the stories they're peddling, either. Those are the ones that affect the world.
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You explained it so well.
Good post.

As for the Faux News comments, there's no longer any doubt that they have their eyes wide open about Iraq. It's not just blind support. It's all about money, as we've always suspected & they just confirmed today.

"The time to buy is now." (Brit Hume)
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Yes
Everything was going against Bush and people were uniting with Live8 and helping someone other then him. Bush likes to have EVERYTHING on HIM. So true.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. And with Blair leaving the G8 early, that conveniently left who???
to essentially "run" the G8, and get his own way...like always.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. My trusty tinfoil hat is ready for action, if necessary.
Israel quite obviously deals with a large number of hardline Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks on a weekly (or, at best, monthly) basis:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/v...

The webpage linked above lists over 350 separate fatal incidents resulting in well over 1000 Israeli fatalities since September, 2000.

But I haven't yet located a single incident out of these 350+ in which more than 30 Israelis died. Nor have I found a single example of a well-coordinated, multiple-attack terrorist strike (defined as three or more separate fatal acts of terrorism executed within a span of three hours). Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could direct me to these entries?

Now, it seems to me that the more sophisticated and spectacular an act of terrorism is -- the more, shall we say, made-for-TV -- the greater chance that this dramatically successful act of terrorism was state sponsored to achieve some political end. This is purely a function of the far greater MEANS and OPPORTUNITY of state sponsored mil/intel organizations when compared with those of the typical Jihadist terrorists they are tasked with foiling. Surely, we would all agree that this exact pattern (of highly dramatic and potent terrorist acts correlating with covert state sponsored activities) is quite typical in the historical records of many perhaps less "politically enlightened" regions -- such as Indonesia, South Africa and Latin America, for example.

Unlike Israel (which deals with far more numerous but typically far less potent Jihadist attacks), the USA & Great Britain appear to deal almost exclusively with spectacularly successful, well-coordinated, highly sophisticated MADE-FOR-TV Goldfinger/Dr. No-type terrorists.

The Jihadist terrorists attacking Israel don't typically choose highly symbolic strike dates (like 9/11 or 7.7 -- with years of inactivity between) to launch singular and discrete but highly memorable, extremely fatal and very well-coordinated multi-strikes. In contrast, real terrorist organizations almost invariably attempt to highlight the desperate straits of their causes by aggressively claiming full responsibility for their violent acts using previously known and recognized channels and spokesmen. Furthermore, these real Jihadist terrorist organizations do not put a premium on huge and horrifically fatal MADE-FOR-TV terror muscle-flexing but instead foster a continual atmosphere of perilousness by striking whenever, wherever and however they can.

Maybe I'm far too cynical, but I've started to suspect that the term "al Qaeda" has now come to simply signify any anonymous act of terror that might otherwise appear sophisticated enough to implicate state-sponsored mil/intel. I realize that this is a generalization at best, but please understand the context in which I'm daring to utter such blasphemous thoughtcrime. Our entire corporate media apparatus and political hierarchy have already convicted Islamic fundamentalists of today's crimes with nary a shred of backing evidence. In contrast, I'm not trying to convince anyone to jump to any hasty conclusions -- just to duly consider all logically probable alternatives.
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DisassemblingHisLies Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You made some good points!
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 11:55 PM by DisassemblingHisLies
Now, it seems to me that the more sophisticated and spectacular an act of terrorism is -- the more, shall we say, made-for-TV -- the greater chance that this dramatically successful act of terrorism was state sponsored to achieve some political end. This is purely a function of the far greater MEANS and OPPORTUNITY of state sponsored mil/intel organizations when compared with those of the typical Jihadist terrorists they are tasked with foiling.


I couldn't agree more.

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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ditto
to what all of you have posted.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. If you're paranoid
So am I. :crazy: It's all so emotionally draining.
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thegreatwildebeest Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
27. Why conspiracy theory it?
Do we have to conspiracy theory it, honestly? The American Government killed an elected leader in 53 in Iran, than installed a dictator. Than in the 80's we funded both the muhjahadeen and tried to woo Iraq into our goodgraces against Iran. Britain itself has an even larger history of meddling, including forming Iraq (it divided up the Ottoman Empire after WWI into admnistrative units...one of them was Iraq), invaded during the Suez Canal crisis in order to keep oil flowing, and has a history of colonial efforts in Africa and elsewhere. Anything that happens to the citizens of the respective countries in question shouldn't come as a surprise or a cause for some huge conspiracy. It's a response that happens when people mucked about with too long go loco. The timing has more to do with the ease (most of the police forces are away and monitoring Scotland for attacks, not London) and the media blitz around the G8. It's not that hard to see why anyone with an axe to grind wouldn't choose a time when basically the world's focus is on a country. It reminds me of a poster I once saw "Your leaders can't protect you, but they can get you killed".
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adolfo Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
29. MKULTRA
Sometimes conspiracies can be frightenly true.

Examples:

MKULTRA CIA program
Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
HUMAN RADIATION EXPERIMENTS, 1946-1974
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