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"This is the last straw. This must end NOW" ...........

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:53 PM
Original message
"This is the last straw. This must end NOW" ...........
The text of a speech long, long overdue .........

"This is the last straw, my fellow Americans. For more than four years we have heard how much the current US administration is doing in the War on Terror. But as evidenced by today's tragic attack on British citizens in their own home, nothing has been done to make the world safer. We have paid little more than lip service to the arrest or killing of the international criminal responsible for the attacks on New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Madrid - to say nothing of Iraq - preferring instead to wage an inexplicable war on a country that was no threat, perceived or real, to our safety."

"For all the bluster coming from the seats of power in our government, you are no safer now than you were on 9/10. You trusted these people, as evidenced by your vote in 2004. They had done nothing by then to have earned your trust, and that continues today."

"It is time for a massive change in this country. It is time for regime change IN THIS COUNTRY. It is time for rational foreign policy, rational national defense policy, rational transportation security policy, rational border security. Indeed, it is time for Rational Governance."

'The hubris, the arrogance, the very incompetence of the current administration has demonstrably placed you in greater danger than you would otherwise have been."

"My name is (Senator)(Congressman)(Governor) _________ and I am endorsing the impeachment of President George Bush for High Crimes and Misdemeanors against the People of the United States."
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. long overdue
Cut out the sentence with "lip service" in it, and I will sign it!!!

'I cant stand that term "lip service"
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. FUCK YEAH!
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes. Exactly. In fact, this overall theme is what John Kerry
campaigned on.

Just that now-- his message might really resonate.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. Campaigned on impeaching George Bush?
I don't think so.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. You're a lot politer
than I would be. But I definitely agree
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. No, I'm not. But if that speech were actually to be given .....
..... impolite would not be helpful.
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Chichiri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Turn this into a LTTE
I think it would be extremely powerful.
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm curious about
the part where you're asking for rational defense, transportation, border, foreign policy, etc...

I suppose the person you're writing to will assume that whatever his ideas are should be considered "rational", but I'm more interested in what YOU think should be those policies... In my view, it is not simply enough to start shouting "regime change" as a serious reason for impeachment. It is espeically pointless if Congress does not hear exactly what it is you DO want.

To be honest, I haven't seen any terribly remarkable changes in any of those policies over the last 4 presidential terms. Especially, since it is Congress who controls most of these policies, what precisely will Congress charging Bush with "high crimes and misdemeanors" accomplish? Specifically, WHAT ACTS can you actually charge him with?

Mind you, I'm all for accountability in government, but when people start proposing this, it seems that whoever's doing the charging seems to end up mixing a lot of political issues into the idea of "high crimes and misdemeanors".

Lastly, I see no Constitutional means of removing a president for being "incompetent", which is the only charge if you just disagree with policy. And to prove that, you'd have to prove that somehow, policy was contrived to specifically NOT work. Again, even THAT would be a huge stretch for removing a President. I have no doubts that Nixon for instance, could have been impeached. He conspired to shield people under him from criminal investigation or prosecution - and while his actions were a possibly gray legal area, the idea is easy to understand - and probably what the founders meant when they gave us the rules by which to impeach - It had to be obvious misbehavior on the part of osmeone in power - abuse of power, for instance, like in Nixon's case. Nixon, of course, resigned, rather than fight a charge. He always claimed it was for the country - and I suppose I'll avoid speaking ill of the dead and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Disagreement over policy, no matter how profound, simply fails to add up to high crimes and misdemeanors - especially when every 4 years we election new policy maker for the White House, every 2 years for Congress ,and staggered elections for the Senate. This is why I ask why you do not specific precisely under what terms... and what charges. Without them, your letter or email is just junk mail or spam...



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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. There have been a lot of threads on here about the impeachable
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. Have you read the memo?
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. umm.. Kerry won the election.. dont use language that gives credit..
to the big lie.. it is very important that those of us that know the truth never let them brush by this fact. (and I can prove Kerry won about as much as anyone can prove bush won... ) I stop friends and family that use statments with.. "bush won" or we are 49%.. we are the majority and bush wants you to believe you arent.. he wants you to believe you lost.. he wants you to believe he has a mandate (beside Gannon)... and so many other lies he wants you to believe!

OTHERWISE... a great sentiment.. Im following Conyers and I hope we get our wish!
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Um, I hate to break it to you
But Bush did win. He's president. I've looked at this every way to Sunday... and he won the election, period. There is no explanation of substantiated fraud, or other criteria that says otherwise.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Um, I take it you've read Conyer's report as well? n/t
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. You talking about the book?
As far as that goes, no.

I've read a summary of Conyer's accusations... and while some objective research needs to be done on why and how these accusations could be made, I see no real reason to believe the election invalid.

The accusations are of "disenfranchisment" which is mostly just rhetorical, not factual. You know, I've been a technical person for a long time. What I've learned, is that there is always an objective truth about matters. There are facts, and there are arguments meant to convince people of a "point of view", and often those two things are not the same - in fact, they disagree.

Above things partisan or ideological, i'm far more interested in knowing the objective truth about things - or at least having an understanding of events with as much of a contextual grasp as possible.

Sorry, again, I see no reason to believe there was any fraud perpetrated. Incompetence, perhaps, but fraud? No. Local officials run local precincts, at least in my state, and none of them seem at all interested in committing fraud - at least in doing so in such a way as to expose themselves to investigation or prosecution. But if localized or even "accused" incompetence discredits an election, we're NEVER going to have a "legitemate" election again, ever. There's simply NOW WAY that we can have countless thousands of precincts country-wide be without question... especially if the question is nothing other than the attitude of the political opposition.

Democrats will accuse Republicans, and vice versa - but we can't let it undermine our faith in the institution of civil elections. Investigate, find problems, attempt reform, repeat.

But if accusations of bias or "disenfranchisement" means elections are invalid, then we're doomed to forever calling every election that's anywhere near close "invalid". I'm not prepared to go there... are you?

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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Follow the money:
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That is completely off-topic
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I believe monetary gain is at the root of everything being discussed here.
I present a graph that shows who has profited from these crimes we accuse the administration of. No amount of fancy words will persuade me from knowing that EVERY discussion about the corrupt nature of this administration comes down to Who Profits and Who Does Not. Some present fancy, yet meaningless arguments (I am reminded of the most snidely and ridiculous William F. Buckley) , but they mean nothing to someone who doesn't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. So if Kerry had won
it would have been all motivated by monetary gain?

I'm sorry, you stretch the bounds of credibility, sense, and judgement. I simply cannot go there.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Kerry could not have won a rigged election.n/t
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. He walked away a little more than four hours after the last vote was cast!
He conceded the election, and went on vacation, taking with him all of the media that could have shone a light on the very fraud that supposedly caused him to "lose" the election he "won".

HE CHOSE TO WALK AWAY. HE CONCEDED. = HE LOST. LIVE WITH IT (we all have to!) AND MOVE ON, fercripessake.

Never again.

TC
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. " expose themselves to investigation or prosecution"
When was the last time anyone was prosecuted for subversion of the right to vote? And what was the outcome?

Our right to vote is a sham. If it were not a sham, then people would go TO PRISON for 'mistakes' such as putting innocent people on disenfranchisement lists, or distributing the voting machines in a biased way, for 'administrative decisions' such as putting up traffic checks on election day, et lengthy cetera.


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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. CRIMINALS ARE RUNNING THE COUNTRY.. and you see no reason to believe?!
Edited on Fri Jul-08-05 12:10 PM by Griffy
wow.. the reason you dont see it, is cause your not looking, its scary to think we are a third rate banana republic, with a dictator using state run media to fool the public! I beg you.. read the book, look at the EVIDENCE we do have...

better yet.. tell me WHY you believe bush won.. I think if you evaluate how you came to that conclusion you'll see you've been lied too!

...."But if accusations of bias or "disenfranchisement" means elections are invalid, then we're doomed to forever calling every election that's anywhere near close "invalid". I'm not prepared to go there... are you?"

YES... till the election is VERIFIABLE.. I dont think you get the point, this is EXACTLY what we will do. Its not the closeness of the race, its the uncertainty.. GET IT? Yell and scream FOUL till there is a paper trail that we can recount!

This election was invalid.. no one knows who won because we cant count the votes, and you can trust bush if you want, but I dont trust ANY politician, dem or repub... unless what they say is VERIFIABLE!
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Just find the results of Florida counties that used touch screen
as opposed to optical scanner. You won't be confused about the issue after that.
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Hmmm, well a lot of credible people have reached a different conclusion.
excerpted from the introduction to the 767 page book
Did George W. Bush Steal America's 2004 Election? Essential Documents
By Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman

About 15% of Ohio's ballots were cast on computerized devices that left no paper trail. With more than 5.7 million votes cast in a state yielding an official margin for Bush of less than 117,000 votes, a skewed vote count on those machines alone could have made the difference for George W. Bush.

Sworn testimony recorded in public hearings in Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, and Warren cast serious doubt on how those voting machines performed. In Warren, voters pressing Kerry's name on electronic screens repeatedly saw Bush's name light up. In predominantly Democratic Lucas County, Diebold Opti-scan machines broke down early in the day and were never fixed, denying thousands - mostly Democrats - their right to vote.

Reports surfacing in other precincts verified that technicians dismantled key electronic machines before a recount could be certified. Election officials in Franklin County (where Columbus is located) reported that 77 of their machines malfunctioned on Election Day, virtually all of them in heavily Democratic precincts. Inner city precincts in Cincinnati and Cleveland had all-too-familiar Florida-style problems with their punch card machines.

To date, there has been no credible, independent audit of these machines, not in Ohio or in any other state. In Ohio, Secretary of State Blackwell issued an order in the weeks following the election that all 2004 election records, paper and electronic, were to be sealed from public access and inspection. As of this book's publication date, those records remain unobtainable.

What is Ohio Sec of State (and Bush/Cheney campaign co-chair) Kenneth Blackwell hiding?

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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Either way, the point is that Shrub is president
Doesn't matter if there was fraudulent machines as it relates to this letter and the impeachment of the Chimp.

The issues need to be separated. Work on fixing the voting machines, of course, but the issue of impeachment needs to be separate, for now.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. LANGUAGE is the issue... bush won.. kerry lost... PROVE it
I ask you.. how much effort to "fix" your voting system do you think will be but forward if people dont think its broken?!?! .. and if bush won and was inaugurated, its not broken... is it?

the issue is people dont like to talk so badly of our nation and it governing systems! I know its hard to accept, but we had a coup in 2000, selected by the court the bushies worked to bring tax cuts to their friends and contracts to their companies. (which need war to really profit.. after all, what good is making bombs if you dont drop them on someone?!). The other thing they worked on was the election system, HAVA was like clean skies healthy forests and NCLB.... think about it, do you really think bush would make election the 1 thing he will play fair?
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I agree, two seperate issues
They will never impeach him over a fraudulent election or it would have happened before 2004. The Republican controlled congress will probably never impeach him over incompetence, lying to congress and the American People and the United Nations by "fixing the intelligence around the policy" and taking us to war with Iraq.
This is not to say that we should not pursue impeachment, the issues raised by our efforts will seep out to the general population and most likely hurt the Republican's chances in 2006. If we can take congress in 2006 depending on the margin of victory, we will stand a much better chance of having Bush/Cheney impeached.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. PROVE it.. bush won?.. PROVE it.. you cant! that the point!!
I know he was inaugurated... but we dont know who won.. unless you believe the corperate media taking cues from a corrupt administration! dont be naive, it is not me that need to learn the truth, I know the right questions to ask, and I dont fall for the propaganda you seem to have stepped in. The good news is your here on the site and we can have open minded discussions about this, so you and I may yet learn!

So I ask you , WHY do you believe bush won? Since I know you didnt personally count all the votes, you had to have heard bush won from somewhere?!

do you believe bush won '00?...

do you beleive Chambliss won in '02?

do you believe Iraq was a threat and had WMDs?

do you believe we are winning the war?

do you believe Social Security is in crisis?

do you believe Schiavo was in a coma?

do you believe bush did everything to stop 911 and wish it didnt happen?

... lies lies lies lies!

... what, and WHO do you believe!?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I guess LYING to START and ILLEGAL war is just some quaint act.
Along with all those long official discussions with WH layers on HOW FAR OR CLOSE TO ILLEGAL ACTS CAN HE GO WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING CHARGED! Now, that alone should alarm anybody with half a brain as to the emphasis the CRIMINALS in OUR White House are persuing daily!

But hey, a 21 count new poster doesn't see anything wrong with bunkerboy and thinks that Democrats act the same way!

Enjoy your short stay here!

Are you sure you're on the right website? We hear there's another one more in tune with your "beliefs"!
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. I thought this was about an election
Or at least this part of the thread was??? Disagreeing with what I see as a rather pointless bit of argument, one which simply fuels animosity - ie "Kerry won the election" - does not quite translate to "I hate Democrats". Or "I love Republicans". In reality... I love truth.

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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Oh wait one fucking minute buddy
"Funny, you don't mention that the ballots in Florida were made available for counting, and nobody ever came up with a count that made Gore win."


I am down here and I was down here, in the belly of the beast during the 2000 election. Palm Beach county alone is proof of voter fraud. And there could not be a recount because the people voted for fucking Pat Buchanan when they thought they were voting for Kerry! Imagine an almost entirely Jewish community wanting Pat Buchanan as their president? Yea, when pigs fly.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Oh and I forgot another thing - the Supreme court send it back
to the Supreme Court in Florida who originally sent it to them. And Gore did not have to stop when he did. He stopped because the process was going in circles. His lawyers and the rest of the Democrats here wanted him to keep fighting because we KNEW the whole state was fixed.

But Gore quit and gave it to Bush. And our country has been going down the toilet ever since.

And you are really starting to get on my nerves. Your "respectable" speech is thinly veiled.

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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Thinly veiled what?
For pity's sakes... has it come to this... If you disagree with someone, and voice one disagreement over one thing... You're an enemy?

Cripes...
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
41. YES.. now your getting it!! YOU CANT PROVE WHO WON..!
you see.. I want to DEFEND the constitution and ENFORCE our laws.. and if all options legal and peaceful are exhausted I will do what I must! .. but I dont think that will be needed.. See, this is my home, and I believe in the principals of freedom, democracy and civil rights! I'm ok if republicans run and win the election.. IF they can prove it.. get it?.. trust but VERIFY! Same for dems.. id agree with republicans if Kerry was inaugurated and they were angry that it is a unverifiable sytem! Is this is revolutionary?? .. cant you see how we can count every penny in every bank, but I cant get an election that has a frik'n papertrail, let alone accurate!

Oh.. and make no mistake, I DO think the bushies are criminals.. they broke laws.. what do you call that? .. I've seen lots of evidence.. have you?

and frankly.. the revolution has started.. listen to Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, AAR and other Indy media.. hear the angry cries of Americans, the sobs of the parents of the dying boys and girls in Iraq (many have joined the revolution)... hear the somber words of John Conyers as he speaks of the seriousness of the charges being brought to light.. I know what is really happening.. I dont have all the answers.. but I'm asking the right questions...

So I ask you again.. WHY do you think bush won.. the well is posioned.. the media is corrupt, and unreliable, and the machines are made by idealoges with the ends justify the means attitude and the nerve to cry out "i didnt do it..." "i didnt know".. even when caught with there hand in the perverbial cookie jar!

I know it hard to grasp.. but try to keep your mind open.. it took me months to understand.. I'm a reality based engineer and if you go directly to the source you can see whats happening. I've been attending the conferences.. I've been going down to the Congress and listening..

welcome to the truth... this my sting alittle..

:hi:
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theoldgeezer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm sorry, but I really think
That you're just hooked on some conspiracies that don't really exist.

Dismissing stories you don't like by calling them "corporate media" is precisely no different than Republicans calling the exact same people "The Liberal Biased Media", and neither holds all that much water. We DO know that most of the media are Democrats, not Republicans... How do we now suddenly blast them as all corrupt and worthless? Who you gonna believe? Carreer politicians? Let's not go there, ok?

The very idea that ALL are criminals... well. I'm sorry, but if they are, this shouting is all so pointless. It would mean that everyone is a criminal on both sides. I don't buy it.

And I'm sorry, quoting John Conyers to me is like quoting a rumor mill. I have no respect for his veracity. I lost it LONG ago. For that matter, I don't take politician's arguments about the political opposition very seriously. Each has a vested interest in spinning, and little apparent value in ultimate truth.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Im sorry your blinded by the right... the facts are there.. you wont look
Edited on Sun Jul-10-05 04:24 AM by Griffy
you CANT or WONT accept that the world is not as it seems. Propaganda is rampent.. state run videos shown as news.. dont you know this.. go look at mediamatters.com and see for yourself the terrible news slant. The media has been a stenographer for the adminstration since the start.. and before. It is the OWNERS of the media that are republicans.. just like the OWNERS of the voting machines..

as I see it, your main problem is you are so set AGAINST conspiricies, that when one is actually happening, you cant believe it! When 2 or more people make a plan, thats conspiring. Do you think that bush actually thought Iraq had WMD's? and ties to Bin Laden?? Its a crock.. a ruse.. its PROPAGNDA.. and if you cant see that.. you need to listen more and open your mind.. stop denying the truth! .. I have facts.. reality.. and the election system is rigged... but like gravity, I dont know exactly how it works.. but I can see it in action, or perhaps thats just a wild theory too!

Have you read PNAC.. if not go do so before speaking more.. its the neocons plans in there own words! They wanted Iraq for a decade or more...

or better yet.. you tell me why WTC 7 collapsed? I dont have all the answers, but I'm asking the right questions, while you sadly are defending the sytem which cant answer my question!

as for the media, try listening to the words of Bill Moyers, perhaps he can help you see the ugly truth of what is going on.

I beg you.. for the love of this country and its constitution, dont brush me off, I know what I'm saying, and the only real reason you dont believe me is you dont know me. Find out for yourself, but whatever you do, dont just take the corperate medias word for it!

I doubt you will answer my question, I expect some reply on a diffent angle, about patisanship or political goals, thats all BS to me.. facts if you have them.. thoughtful questions if you dont...

talk to me... its important we learn from each other!


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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #25
45. Pretty naive for an old geezer.
"And no, I WILL NOT SAY THAT CRIMINALS ARE RUNNING THE COUNTRY."

I'm fairly old myself, and to me, this is the most criminal administration I've ever seen in America, or whatever we call it now. Worse than Nixon and Reagan combined. The relevant comparison is to the Mafia.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. You have not been around here very long - you missed all the
threads that prove voter fraud. Maybe you should do some searches.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. um, i hate to break it to you
but bush is a fraud. he's a sham. i've looked at this every way to sunday...and he stole the election, period. there is no explanation of a legitimate election, or other criteria that says otherwise.

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unlawflcombatnt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. Fraud is FULLY SUBSTANTIATED
I followed the election results and recount results in Ohio. I also contributed money to the Ohio recount. There is abundant evidence of election fraud. There are countless documents describing multiple fraudulent activities, many of which I have copies of, if you'd like to see them.

Bush was fraudulently elected. Period. If you'd like, I can send you a copy of the actual Ohio statute on the recount rules, and which ones were broken. I can send you the difference in the actual provisional paper ballot count, vs. the fraudulently altered machine ballot count. Kerry's percentage on real, documented paper ballots was higher in 63 of the 66 counties, than it had been in the regular election. If the fraudently counted regular ballots had shown the same percentage of Bush-Kerry that the provisional ballots had, Kerry would have beat Bush by over 100,000 votes.

Ohio law states that counties that show different hand recounts than the original machine recounts in the selected precinct must have the entire county re-counted by hand. Though some selected precincts did have non-matching hand re-counts, none had county-wide hand re-counts. This is 100% against Ohio state law. This is just one of the many, fully-documented instances of election fraud that got Bush elected.

He is our president exclusively as the result of being fraudulently elected.

Bush is NOT our "legitimately" elected president. He won by voter fraud.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bin-Laden not a concern
remember that little quote from bush* when he was rolling out the Iraq Invasion?

or how about this one from June 28, 2005 - We either deal with terrorism and this extremism abroad, or we deal with it when it comes to us."

and then there's the July 4, 2005 quote - "We're taking the fight to the terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home."

for good measure there's the GOP mantra of "we're safer now".

The daily spews are reporting about a previously unknown group al-qeada affiliates as being responsible for bombing in London - although they are careful to say they are not sure.

In the fall of 2002 and up until May 1, 2003 the reason we invaded Iraq was to stop Saddam from using WMDS, there was also that loosely woven connection of Saddam and 9-11. When it started to become obvious there were NO WMDs - the story changed to Liberating Iraqi people. Now that Americans are not buying that product - the story is we are "fighting terrorists abroad so we don't have to fight them here at home"

Granted Madrid and London are not "home" to the majority of Americans - but terrorist attacks have occurred there and it's fairly close to "home". Many of our major cities went to ORANGE ALERT (back with the colors again) - a good precaution - however every attack abroad and every time the alert level is raised indicates we are NOT winning the war on terror and we are certainly not safer because we invaded Iraq.

I'm wondering how many people are now questioning just how safe we really are and if invading Iraq did any good to put a damper on terrorism? How many are asking themselves - "where's Bin-Laden? why aren't we 'hunting him down'? why are we wasting time, money and the lives of our troops in Iraq - just like WMDs - bin-Laden is not in Iraq."

The war on terror is more than just "gittin' bin-laden" - taking him out won't do much other than being a symbolic victory for us and providing the terrorists with a martyr.

Fighting terrorism is not a conventional war - this is not a war where one army pushes ahead to control more land than the other, nor is it a an all out assault where one army kills more than the other, nor is there any ONE leader that could be killed/captured which would bring about an end to a war.

Terrorism is a tool - it's a weapon. The real war is one of ideas and beliefs. And the problem with attacking ideas and beliefs is the more you shoot at ideas/beliefs with bullets and bombs - the stronger those ideas and beliefs become - the resolve become stronger.

these groups didn't spring up overnight - they grew slowly over many many years. Invading Iraq just added more fertilizer to the mix. Even if we succeed in 'bringing democracy' to Iraq - it won't stop the terror attacks. We can invade the entire middle east and elsewhere - but it won't stop the ideas/beliefs.


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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. The time is NOW!
www.recallthecongress.com

Put this to good use folks!

Recall the Congress! Smash the PNAC! Impeach Bush and Cheney! Prosecute and indict the war criminals!

"WE THE PEOPLE" have the power to do it! Organizations need set up in 50 states.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Howard Dean should get a copy
of this, too.

TC
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cleveramerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
38. until we dems accept our role in this...
the vote in the senate was 98-2. We as a nation were persuaded by the commander in chief we should go. Every time a dem uses a phrase like "Bush's war" it cuts our own throat. The dems in congress are at least as responsible for this rotten war as the republicans in congress. Us dems have to start thinking in these terms for any true advance of our cause to be real.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. I actually agree with you on this...
But, few seem to be paying attention. :shrug:

Keep on speaking out.

TC
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freeEarthLove Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
43. agreed
agreed
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