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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:20 PM
Original message
General Clark on FAUX: Five Points
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 10:26 PM by Sparkly
I don't eat red meat, but I love it in politics. I love it when Dean, Durbin, Reid, Conyers, Boxer, Kucinich et al dish it up. But if you're expecting it from Clark in his new role of foreign policy analyst at Faux, you'll be disappointed.

First, as I've said elsewhere, it's clear Hannity's got the technique down: Make a little speech tossing out eight different half-truths or all-out lies, then ask a loaded question. Clark can then either focus on ONE of those phoney memes and let the others stand, answer the loaded question and let all the phoney memes stand, or shift the focus to something Hannity wasn't expecting and didn't want to discuss. Guess which one you can expect? (So please don't complain "Yeah but he never refuted xyz!!")

Second, Clark is venturing where none like him have gone before, at least as far as I know. It takes a lot of guts to appear regularly on that network in a role that's not "Unappealing Democratic Whacko," which seems so often to be their casting. (I admit I haven't watched the channel much, but when I have, I've wondered aloud, "Who is THAT representing Democrats, where the hell did they get him, and could they have found anybody WORSE?") They set them up like punching-bag foils.

Third, put yourself in Clark's position. Ask yourself two things: 1.) What would you want to say to that audience in 30 seconds? and 2.) What would be HELPful to say to that audience in 30 seconds? If any of us were to say what we wanted, we'd be immediated rejected by that audience and/or dismissed and ridiculed by the "host." These people are practically brainwashed, polls show they've been egregiously misled, they are ignorant of basic facts, they've dug their heels in as supporters of the GOP for those reasons and their knee-jerk response to Democrats is emotionally equivalent to what ours is to Freepers.

Fourth, consider why General Clark took on this task, by considering the consistency of what he always says. He quotes another leader in saying, "Leadership is persuading other people to want to do what it is you want them to do." He says, "We need to reach out; we need to bring people together; we need to pull people in." He said and DID that in uniting people of different backgrounds in the army, he said and DID that in uniting people of different nations, and he says and can DO that in uniting people in America under Democratic principles.

Fifth, remember that we're not running against Bush anymore -- we're running against the rightwing, neocon, BushCo POLICIES that will remain in 2006, 2008, and beyond. When that simian figurehead leaves office, they'll still be there, their effects will still be there, and God knows their rhetoric will still be there. Contrary to last year's campaign, there's only so much mileage to be gained now in criticizing the Chimp to the people who voted for him. They don't want to hear that they were/are stupid. They want to feel smart about the next view they hold and the next decision they make. Even if we're only talking about 10% of them, it's enough to make the next elections hard to steal.

Listen to Clark on Faux. He won't lie, he won't betray our party, he won't betray his own beliefs, conscience, or worldview. To him, it's all about people -- from business to politics to foreign policy, it's about people. I believe he joined Faux to lead people toward the liberal Democratic point of view, and part of that is emphasizing policy, principles and patriotism even above partisanship.

Meanwhile, he is giving both sides ample transcripts and video to scrutinize and criticize; but in the long run, he's giving our 2006 and 2008 candidates a new chance, a new view, a new opening among the very voters we need to win over.

The man is brave, committed, and damn smart. In enemy territory, the strategy is different than on home turf, so we can't expect the red meat of campaign speeches. But watch him work! He's gone into the battle to take the next hill, and for that alone, I applaud him.

You go, General!!! :patriot:
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. we need more people like him
who don't take the bait, but politely, with conviction state the facts. as a distinguished General with a sterling history, he is apt to educate the opposition.
You go, indeed General!
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Uh oh, another positive Clark thread...
Some people aren't going to be too happy with you. ;)
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I posted this before I read that.
Mea culpa!! I didn't realize there was a limit. :(

I saw a pattern of criticisms on other threads and thought I'd provide a different, detailed perspective before I realized each Democrat is only allowed limited discussion. :eyes:
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not sure there's a limit on each Dem
but apparently there's one on Clark...Good post nonetheless....
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. A limit on some, maybe.
Or on one. I don't get it. :crazy:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh sh*t...Sparkly....
Just make sure you save this and repost it later on.

You may not get many hits....based on principle.

We've got some crying going on that there have been entirely too much Clark lately.

Although last week it was Dean....Clark's not really supposed to get a turn remember?

Anyhow, I love you OP and agree with your 5 points.

He did say...."The Art of Politics...is the Art of persuasion".
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I hadn't realized.
Silly me. :dunce:
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FourStarDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well said. good post!
I agree with every point you made. Wes is all about THE FACTS and presenting a progressive viewpoint in an intelligent, articulate manner. Not trying to go low and toe to toe against the rantings of Hannity. His military nickname Panther for a reason. He will take them apart quickly and cleanly.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Was that really his military nickname?
"Panther." I love it -- it fits!!! :D
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FourStarDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I believe I read it somewhere.
And I agree, it does fit. :)
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xkenx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. "Panther" reminds me of
the Buzzflash interview with Clark by Joe Conason.

Joe Conason
"I want to be careful how I say this, but he has an almost feline presence -- and by that I don't mean "catty," as in bitchy. I mean like a big cat. I once encountered a mountain lion in the Point Reyes National Seashore in California, on a rainy day in winter, when I was all by myself. We stood stock still staring at each other for a few seconds. And there was this moment of "Gee, that's a cougar, this is really cool." And then an instant later, came the feeling of "My God, that's a lion!" There's nothing between me and him, no fence. Clark has a little bit of that kind of presence. You sense a tremendous personal authority about him held in and contained by self-discipline. Not somebody to fuck with, is another way of putting it.

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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Hate to be nitpicky, but that was a Buzzflash interview with
Joe Conason about Wes Clark.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great post. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Tomorrow at 2 PM on Fox News Live to stand toe-to-toe w/the GOP again!
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 02:21 PM by ClarkUSA
Great analysis of a great man.

:applause:
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Exactly!
Sparkly... you hit the nail on the head!

And, to take this (I think) a step or tow further...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1870952

Now is the time to start seeing truth-tellers, non-apologists, non-appeasers, and attack dogs as the salvation of this Party. Gutsy moves, designed to get the truth out to those who would never hear it, is just what this Party needs right now -- not a bunch of corporate/specialinterest whores who vote to protect their viability, not to reflect our true core beliefs.

And, how ironic is it that a man who will not say a bad word about another Democrat is so savaged repeatedly right here on DEMOCRATIC Underground?

Think about it.

TC
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gotta hand it to the General
He's operating without backup behind enemy lines.....

good luck General.
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Larry in KC Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Well, to a very real extent... WE'RE his backup!
Let's make ourselves be heard in loud support.

He's had our backs... not just now, but for his whole career...even, in a very real sense, took four bullets for us.

Let's make sure we've got his back.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Most important point: #5.
"Fifth, remember that we're not running against Bush anymore -- we're running against the rightwing, neocon, BushCo POLICIES that will remain in 2006, 2008, and beyond."

Exactly right!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. BAM!
Socked it right to the gut of the wingnuts.

I just :loveya: this man!
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. I wonder if his goal here isn't to sharpen up his dueling skills?
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 07:35 PM by DuaneBidoux
It does take courage to be a fair fighter and man of integrity when surrounded by frauds on all side. Clark is if nothing else a man of integrity. While I don't have a clear favorite for '08 I do think Democrats need to pick someone with military experience who understands war (it's surprising how often when they actually have war experience they tend to be reasonable about such things as the naked use of military aggression).
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That , yes, but more than that also
Clark really IS an American through and through. That's why he gave his adult life to a relatively low paying, Nation spanning, non-partisan, multi class, multi racial institution, dedicated to protecting all Americans. Clark will never simply write off the average FOX viewer as a lost cause, though he probably knows it might take a generation to reach most of them. If you heard Clark speak in New Hampshire on CSPAN, you could sense his strong belief that America is facing very serious challenges, challenges that require us pulling together as a nation to meet them. Not just military challenges, but economic, health and environmental ones that will grow not lesson over the next few decades.

Bush and Rove intentionally divided Americans as a political tactic. Clark believes we can't afford to remain as divided as Bush made us. I believe that is one reason why he chose FOX.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. interesting ...
Makes sense.

The money really isn't that much of an issue. He could, no doubt, with his military retirement income added to the stipends available for directorships in various companies, live nicely. In Little Rock, he lives in the Heights ... the same general area where Gene Lyons lives and where the Bill and Hillary bought the only house they ever owned before moving to NY.

It's not that terribly expensive here.

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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. I support Clark!
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Spectral Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hannity is a piece of crap
It seems silly to send a smart guy like Clark into the ring with a turd.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great Analysis,
Sparkly.

Dean's doing Red Meat so Clark doesn't have to :P
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