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Ok, so Right-wingers are saying the DSMs are fake...

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:12 PM
Original message
Ok, so Right-wingers are saying the DSMs are fake...
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 12:14 PM by Dr_eldritch
Posted by WYN on RN;

Memos Show British Concern Over Iraq Plans

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050618/ap_on_...YwN3bA%E2%...

THOMAS WAGNER
Associated Press Writer
18 June 05

EXCERPT:

LONDON - When Prime Minister Tony Blair's chief foreign policy adviser dined with Condoleezza Rice six months after Sept. 11, the then-U.S. national security adviser didn't want to discuss Osama bin Laden or al-Qaida. She wanted to talk about "regime change" in Iraq, setting the stage for the U.S.-led invasion more than a year later.

President Bush wanted Blair's support, but British officials worried the White House was rushing to war, according to a series of leaked secret Downing Street memos that have renewed questions and debate about Washington's motives for ousting Saddam Hussein.

/\/\/\ snip/\/\/\

The eight memos all labeled "secret" or "confidential" were first obtained by British reporter Michael Smith, who has written about them in The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times.

"Smith told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the originals."
(bold added)
***************************************************************
With thanks to LGF.

Unbe-blanking-lieveable!!!!! All this bruhaha and the guy dosen't even have the originals??

Well, I'm happy to report to you, I have documets here that show Howard Dean, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin, "Dirty" Harry Reid and Robert KKK Byrd all really like eachother, I mean really like each other. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I got them from secret sources.

What? Well, no, I don't have the originals, I wanted to protect my sources, so I destroyed the originals and typed copies right here!

There is now no story about the "Downing Street Memo", they're fakes.

Of course, this won't stop the mindless drooling on the left. :lol3: :lol3:

Unbelieveable. :bang: :bang:


If anyone wants a link, that's fine.

My thinking is that if the shoe were on the other foot DU would want more verification too. DU is 'Choc FULL of empiricists but I have not seen this concern arise.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is there a link to the Smith "quote?"
An AP article?
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Here's one
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks, I see it in the OP now. But why protect Dearlove?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050618/ap_on_re_eu/memos_b... ;_ylt=AkpUawWZnn9YyKxAtek7j86s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2bW85OXIzBHNlYwNwbA--

Dearlove is and has been named.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Don't worry ...
The WH does NOT want to make an issue out of the authenticity of THESE memos - they are real, and to say otherwise would bring real British sources into play - the British press is still alive.

Actually, we should probably hope that the Bushmen DO try to question them ...
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excepting the fact
that they've been vetted and verified by British sources, and there accuracy has never been called into question by anyone in power.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. There is proof
Neither BushCo nor Downing Street have denied the autheticity of the documents.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Well, if you recall...
The White House raised no concerns over the TANG Memos at all - they just let Rather foist himself.

While I do not believe that is the case here, it still raises questions. I know Bushbots would defend him even if he was caught eating live babies, so they aren't the ones I care about. I also think that Rove has already played the forgery card and even he couldn't set this one up.

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to swear everyone in and grill them all.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. The information in the TANG memo was also authentic
and 100% true. The difference is the DSM has been cited (even if just a little bit) by almost every news source in existence. It's too late to "Rather" it even if Rove did manage to submit a forgery of the original documents.
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BlueStateModerate Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh dear...
I don't doubt the authenticity, but given the problems that the media has had with that sort of thing lately with Rather on AWOL and the Gitmo Quaran peeing (accurate but not verifiable), this may be a big problem.

On another note, the DSM got front page coverage on The Oregonian today!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The authenticity really isn't in doubt
But this worked well for them in the past, so...

If there really were any question about it, Scotty and Chimpy et al would have used that as their excuse for not addressing the issues, seems to me.
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BlueStateModerate Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. They never denied the truth behind Rather's story either N/T
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. I think this is different though
These are minutes, so there isn't just one copy floating about. All participants have copies.

They interview Smith, he'll confirm he destroyed the originals he was given by his source (not the only copies in existance, my bet is the source didn't give him his copy either).

Let the freepers play this game, it will only bring further attention to the DSM.

Let them interview all the participants of the meeting.

The difference is we aren't dealing with 30 year old information. These minutes were probably NOT typed on a typewritter but a computer, so the original is on somebody's hard disk.

Rove doesn't control the British press, this might just blow up on them.

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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Reasons for the Iraq Invasion Were Fake
Stupid Freepers.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. I've watched first-hand as the brains of the Freepers
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 12:31 PM by Dr_eldritch
shut off upon being presented with the facts.

I cited numerous sources, including the state department to show that top Administration officials (Powell, Cheney, Rice) all said that 'Iraq was not a threat' and they said it was make-believe because my sources were liberal.

Then I pointed out that was not the case and they never responded.

They really can be brain-dead.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. The Sad Part: They Do It At The Expense of Other People
While they lie to themselves and people around them, people die.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. I want to see the original letter taking George off of flight status
and of course all of the supporting documents.

I want to see the original accident report where Laura Bush t-boned that guy's car and killed him.

etc. etc.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Read up on it
"That guy" was her boyfriend at the time.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I know that and you know that but tens of millions of people who know
all about a cum-stained blue dress don't know that.

That goddam librul media!!!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Anthrax owned the MSM!
not the rock band either... has the FBI caught the anthrax killer yet?? :eyes:

http://www.newsgarden.org/columns/anthrax/anthraxterror...

"This is a cowed Tom Brokaw signing off, with a double scotch and a chaser hypo of Cipro!, good evening America"
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Really!!! what a surprise...they love their bush and thats that..It
would not really matter what comes out about bush they would say it's a lie, their bush is a Godly man.
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dem leadership sleep at the wheel again....
we've been branded as liers and Rove will do it again. Dem leaders are not out there united hammering the truth to the American people, about the Downing Street MINUTES. They need to get on the same page, repeat the same 'sound-bite' the way the repigs do.
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Cogito ergo doleo Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. Authenticated by two senior British government officials
June 15 - Two senior British government officials today acknowledged as authentic a series of 2002 pre-Iraq war memos stating that Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program was "effectively frozen" and that there was "no recent evidence" of Iraqi ties to international terrorismprivate conclusions that contradicted two key pillars of the Bush administration's public case for the invasion in March 2003...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8234762/site/newsweek/
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. To these bastards...everything is a lie, if it against them.....
they will not touch this, they know it will get more attention if they go near it...they will use surrogates to attempt to disprove the whole thing, just as they always do. It will be a massive effort to address a point ofr two im the memo's, and bypass the fact that the rest of the memo's are filled w/facts.

The usual RW tornadic spin.... :puke:
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. and, besides, Andrea Bitchell "reported" that NBC had verified the memos 2
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. When the sources have been verified, and the memos have been
verified, it's a done deal. The sources say yes the facts were fixed, and that is all there is to that....
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well, this is only one piece of the evidence...the FACT that no WMD
exist...plus the ABSOLU8TE SURENESS of this administration' claims of the FACT that there were WMD..and they knew exactly where they were is proof that these INDEED were things that were being prepared for public consumption even if they (WMD, links to terrorists etc) WERE INDEED LIES! This PLUS that fact that the people in the meeting were NAMED and not a single person has come forward and stated emphatically that these documents were NOT TRUE...these are not unnamed sources these people at the meetings are identified by name!

What do we need a photo of blair with his tounge licking the * arse before it is believed that WE WERE LIED TO...AND THE GRUDGE BETWEEN * AND SADAAM WITH BUSH HAVING AT HIS FINGERTIPS THE LARGEST ARMY EVER ASSEMBLED ON EARTH TO INVADE AND OCCUPY the source of his grudge?

SORRY...IF ANYONE STILL THINKS THERE IS ONE IOTA OF A CHANCE THAT WE WERE NOT LIED TO IS EITHER JUST A BUSHBOT OR DELUSIONAL OR BOTH!

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. The MINUTES are icing on the yellow cake.
You GOOO, Patdem! To assist interested parties in connecting the dots, Paul Thompson has published a timeline. Comprehensive and easy to read.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timelin...
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. WOW...thanks for the link, I knew he did a 9/11 Timeline. I had no idea
he was also doing a Iraq invasion Timeline. What a great investigative reporter he is! :yourock:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. LOL, I suggest they do their homework
"The Foreign Office yesterday acknowledged the documents were genuine but stressed they were only a snapshot of thinking at a particular time. Nor did they reflect the changes that took place over the following 12 months, in particular referring the issue to the UN, which the White House did at Mr Blair's behest, though it failed to get a second security council resolution authorising war."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1308368,00....
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I find it funny that they will even attempt the new spin of;
"they were only a snapshot of thinking at a particular time. Nor did they reflect the changes that took place over the following 12 months"

The response is simple, "Then how is it that everything discussed in that 'snapshot' came to pass if there were 'changes in thinking over the following 12 months'?

We still went to war on doctored, or "fixed" intelligence.

And anyone who thinks "fixed" has a 'different meaning' in the Queen's English;

A) Didn't read how the British read it.
B) Would be at a loss to explain how such a coincidence occurred as going to war on 'faulty intelligence' after all.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Only one problem with that argument:
Bush and Blair aren't denying the autenticity of the memos.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Bingo
great observation
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
29. The media says it's old news and that everyone knew Bush/Cheney
lied to invade Iraq. There's your proof right there.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. What other lies do they know about?
EVERYBODY knew that....
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