Bush's Legacy--"Fixed Intelligence"

[ncteechur]

Joe Klein in the lastest Time wrote that no matter what else this administration does or doesn't do, Bush's legacy lies inthe desert of Iraq. I think his legacy is killed and wounded soldiers, killed innocent Iraqi civilians, corruption, and fixed intelligence. That is one hell of a legacy.

Worst President Ever.

[Xipe Totec]

1. You can't fix what isn't there

Intelligence? Pu-leeze!

Intelligence and Bush Administration ARE opposing values.

[A rope leash]

2. What good is impeachment?

Bush's legacy will be the end of the American republic.

Hey, ncteechur, I hope you don't mind if I hijack your post a bit. I want to post something, and I'm running out of time, and I'm new so I guess they won't let me start a new thread...here goes...

Hey all,

It’s presumptuous of me to start a new thread on my first time at a new forum, but I’ve been watching DU for some time now, and I’ve got a serious question for those of you who seem to be at the far left of the normally acceptable political spectrum.

First, though, let me assure you that I am nobody. I’ve recently lost my job and I’ve got plenty of nothing to do, so I might as well spew. I’m a registered Democrat, but I am disheartened by the actions of all American politicians, as they all seem to be at the big-money trough, while the citizens they are supposed to be “representing” are getting the screwing of a lifetime. Here's my question to you members of the DU...

What good will come of impeaching GWB? Impeachment takes a long time, and does not necessarily end in removal from office. If the president is forced out of office, he will simply be replaced by another criminal, and this will be months or years from now. By that time, these folks will have gotten us involved in yet another conflict against another sovereign nation, probably Iran, and they will use the war and the media machine to stamp out all dissent. Can’t you hear the war drums beating? I know it’s not as loud as the drums were for Iraq, but they don’t want folks to know what’s going to happen this time.

I’ve never been a supporter of GWB or his cronies. I was calling them crooks before the election of 2000, and immediately after 9-11, I was pointing out how they were going to use the attack as an excuse for invading any nation they saw fit. Now that all this awful stuff has transpired, it looks like we might have some action taken against these folks, but it is way too late.

This is a criminal administration. All of them must go, and they must go before they are able to get us involved in another war, because after that, dissent will not be tolerated. It isn’t tolerated now, in many cases, basically because the rush to revenge following the 9-11 attack forced through the USA PATRIOT Act, thereby allowing protesters to be placed in mini-camps called “free-speech zones”, where they will not be heard.

Our country is being led down an immoral and bankrupt road, and we have almost arrived. Impeachment will do nothing but give the crooks more time to operate. We must assemble in huge numbers outside the W house, and demand the immediate removal of all of the players in this administration.

After that, new elections must be held, and both the Democratic and Republican parties must be banned from participating. We need a strong, independent leadership that is free from big-money influence. The two-party system has been a sort of “fixed” democracy that has only led us to partisan bickering and governmental stagnation, and will ultimately lead us to failure as a united nation of states.

What good is impeachment? Criminals belong in jail.

[Lin]

3. it's accountability (recall THAT?) it's justice,

it's cleansing, and it's a step toward healing FERCHRISSAKE!

[pgh_dem]

9. impeachment and criminal charges are not mutually exclusive

just so ya know...

[Jack Rabbit]

10. It specifically says as much in the Constitution

Article 1, section 3:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

In Britain, the conviction in an impeachment trial may also carry criminal penalties.

[pgh_dem]

11. Can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not

Since your UK sidenote reads like a 'however...'

But your cite does prove my point. No, prison time does not attach to impeachment trials, but note the continued phrase 'the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law'.

In realworld reference...Nixon wasn't pardoned by Ford from 'impeachment', he was pardoned for 'any and all' criminal charges, the same ones he would have faced once impeached, convicted and removed from office (which he would have been had he not resigned).

If we're in agreement already, then :bounce:

[Jack Rabbit]

4. Bush's legacy (a ditty)

An election won by fraud and manipulation;
A war began by dissembling and fabrication;
And while we were busy looking over there,
The budget surplus vanished into the air.

[geckosfeet]

5. It will further discredit the man and his presidency, and draw a line

around what is acceptable behavior for the leader of the free world. To let this go unopposed is unthinkable. Criminals must be made to consider the consequences of their actions. Before the next president lies to us about taking the country to war, he should have the shrubbish legacy to consider.

You are right,, it may take years,, or it may never happen. But to sit and do nothing !! Whats with you man !!??

[A rope leash]

6. Nothing?

If you read my post carefully, you would have seen that I did not propose to do nothing. We must assemble in huge numbers outside the W house and demand the immediate incarceration of all of the players in this administration.

If GWB is impeached and removed, doesn't that make Dick Cheney president? What good is that? All of them must go, and impeachment will not lead to that, only to a switching of the gaurd.

...and as far as accountability goes, impeachment won't stop the next guy unless impeachment brings down this entire administration.

I don't think impeachment is wrong, I just think that the time for that has passed, and the time for mass action by the people is here. If they can stall impeachment long enough to get us into another war,(and they can), it will be too late to stop them.

[geckosfeet]

7. Yes you are right,,, but a crack at impeachment is the first step.

I just got the sense that your overall view was that impeachment was useless (resistance is futile). Apologies all around for reading into your post.

Rove, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfield, the guy with the big ears (Wolfowitz (sp?)). Do you think shrubbish will accept responsibility on his own?? Do you think he will resign like Nixon did? It will be interesting to see what he does.

In any event,,, Conyers has over 500,000 e-sigs on his letter. Is it practical for all these people to camp out in Washington for a month?

I like the idea, I really do. Tie up the city for a month. Provide food, water, supplies for thousands of people to take over the city and protest in front of the white house. Bring traffic and government to a stop with peaceful a protest whose strength lies in its numbers. Keep the streets clogged with people.

I have a bag packed. In the meantime, we need to support those that oppose the criminals.

BTW,, welcome to DU. I love this place - knowing that there are people out there with similar political views has encouraged me after nearly 5 years of darkness. I lost my job in Jan. 03. Have since started my own business and watched with bemusement as shrubbish fucks the country up , sells it off one piece at a time, and puts the proceeds into his rich cronies pockets, all with a smile on his face.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. Impeachment and beyond

I agree that if all we do is impeach and remove Bush, we get Cheney in the White House. So what? It might even be worse. Cheney is Bush with brains.

However, we don't need to settle for such a modest goal, and shouldn't.

The "high crimes and misdemeanors" are war crimes and crimes against humanity. The crimes are actions arising out of the Iraq War in particular and the war on terror in general.

The bill of particulars on the crimes against humanity charges involve treatment of detainees in the regime's network of gulags; these constituted and continue to constitute violations of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. For this, Bush, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzales, currently Attorney General, who, while serving as White House Counsel, drew up spurious legal justification for torture, warrant impeachment and removal from office.

The charges of war crimes involve the invasion of Iraq. Since the war had no legal justification, simply planning and prosecuting the invasion is a war crime on its face. The hypothesis that can now be proved thanks to documentation running in the Times of London is that Bush and his inner circle knew that the case for war thin and that it was necessary to fix intelligence and facts around a policy that was set in place prior to the evaluation of any facts that would justify it. They knew that this was an unjustified war of aggression and that to gain anything resembling authorization for it they would have to fabricate facts and dissemble intelligence reports. Consequently, any public statement falsely assessing the threat posed by Iraq made by regime members in order to deceive the public, both American and worldwide, Congress or the United Nations Security Council is a war crime; any action designed to falsify intelligence reports with respect to the threat posed by Iraq is a war crime; any false assessment of that intelligence is a war crime; any attempt to intimidate those with knowledge of these war crimes from speaking out is a war crime. And, of course, any war crime is an impeachable offense. Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Secretary of State and former White House National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice and Mr. Rumsfeld each warrant impeachment and removal from office based on these charges.

Violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention concerning the rights of persons living in occupied nations have also occurred. For example, it was illegal for an American administrator to decree that Iraq's public industries would be privatized or to make deals with the IMF on behalf of the Iraqi people. These were actions of Paul Bremer; since Mr. Bremer served at the pleasure of Mr. Bush, Mr. Bush must bear responsibility for them. These violations of international law are impeachable offenses.

Beyond that, these individuals and many others should be prosecuted under the War Crimes Act of 1996. In addition to Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Dr. Rice, Mr. Rumsfeld and Mr. Gonzales, the following individuals should also be considered war crimes suspects (this list in not inclusive):

• Mr. Bremer, the US colonial governor general in Iraq, on charges mentioned above;
• Colin Powell, former secretary of State, is open to charges for repeatedly lying to the UN Security Council on February 5, 2003;
• General Ricardo Sanchez and General Geoffrey Miller are open to charges arising out of violations of the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture;
• members of the team of lawyers who assisted then-White House Counsel Gonzales in drawing up the torture memoranda are liable for charges of conspiring to mistreat prisoners of war and conspiring to abridge the rights of POWs and other protected persons under the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions;
• Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, also on charges arising out of the violation of the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture;
• Douglas Feith, the director of the Office of Special Plans, whose mission was to dissemble intelligence reports, is open to charges for conspiring to launch an illegal war of aggression;
• Lewis Libby, chief of staff to Mr. Cheney, who attended Mr. Cheney on frequent trips to CIA headquarters allegedly to intimidate analysts into wording their reports such to make the threat from Iraq sound less ambiguous than facts warranted, is liable to charges of conspiring to launch an illegal war of aggression; Mr. Libby is also one of the leading suspect in the outing of an agent of central intelligence, thus ruining her career, in an attempt to silence the woman's husband, Joseph Wilson, from speaking out about his knowledge of deliberate deception by regime members regarding attempts by Saddam's government to rebuild its nuclear program;
• and Paul Wolfowitz, former under secretary of Defense, who was the chief architect of the policy to launch an illegal war of aggression against Iraq.

If the United States government is unable or unwilling to indict and make a good faith effort to prosecute suspected war criminals, then and international tribunal should be convened for that purpose. The failure of Congress to impeach and remove the individuals named (Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and Gonzales) should trigger the convening of an international tribunal for the purpose of prosecuting war crimes and crimes against humanity arising out of the invasion of Iraq and the war on terror.