Freeper Caller: Liberals hate Nazis because the Nazis hated Communism

[Placebo]

Earlier in C-SPAN:

"Why do liberals bash the Nazis but not communism? It's because the Nazis hated Communism! And why do they always say that Nazism is right wing? It's based on socialism, it was left wing!"

He also went on to say that "Islam is like, a thousand years old or something."

And another declared with horror and certainty the likes of which only a righteous man could manage:

"Communism is alive and well in Madison, Wisconsin."

:crazy:

[usregimechange]

1. Political Compass responds:

We wonder if respondents who insist on uncritically accepting the Nazis' self-definition of 'socialist' would be quite as eager to believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Let's start with the second part first. Some respondents confuse Nazism, a political party platform, with fascism, which is a particular structure of government. Fascism legally sanctions the persecution of a particular group within the country - political, ethnic, religious - whatever. So within Nazism there are elements of fascism, as well as militarism, capitalism, socialism etc. To tar all socialists with the national socialist brush is as absurd as citing Bill Gates and Augusto Pinochet in the same breath as examples of free market capitalism.

Economically, Hitler was well to the right of Stalin. Post-war investigations led to a number of revelations about the cosy relationship between German corporations and the Reich. No such scandals subsequently surfaced in Russia, because Stalin had totally squashed the private sector. By contrast, once in power, the Nazis achieved rearmament through deficit spending. One of our respondents has correctly pointed out that they actively discouraged demand increases because they wanted infrastructure investment. Under the Reich, corporations were largely left to govern themselves, with the incentive that if they kept prices under control, they would be rewarded with government contracts. Hardly a socialist economic agenda !

Ibid

[jfern]

20. Here's a good way to look at things

The 1933 Enabling Act, giving Hitler dictatoral powers. It was opposed by the two leftist parties, the Socialists and the Communists, and supported by everyone else, which includes a Catholic party considered centrist, and the Nazis and other parties considered right-wing.

[camby]

2. The sleep of reason produces monsters.

I think Goya said that.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. "If the spirit's sleeping, then the flesh is ink"

Weir and Barlow said that.

[Up2Late]

3. I love that "...the Nazi Party was National Socialist Party..." BS

I just want to scream at those people!:crazy:

[usregimechange]

4. Well that was their name, that is all that it was.

[Up2Late]

7. Yup, I knew I didn't have to explain any further to folks here...

It would be like preaching to the Choir.

Their a Dozens of examples of that sort of "False Naming" of Political Parties... Like... oh...let's see...Ah! Republican! When everything they've done in the last 5 years has been to push us toward Federalism, or even Theocratic Dictatorship!:crazy:

O.K. How many Falsely names Political Party's can we all name? Extreme Right and foreign all count.:evilgrin:

[DBoon]

12. When first founded, there were some "socialist" elements to its platform

Hitler quickly abandoned those, and was very embarassed by them when trying to gain the support of German industrialists.

The 1932, any "socialist" elements in the Nazi Party program were long gone

[aion]

23. Which we should expect of most all of Europe at the time

Hitler, however, morphed that socialism (German Workers Party)doctrine into a nationalism doctrine -- only allowing pure-blood Germans to benefit from it. Our own failure on Wall Street increased Germany's unemployed by about 300% practically overnight.

[K-W]

94. Like the republicans, he manipulated legitimate class resentment

into support for Nazism.

Through a set of scapegoats weaved into a nationalistic myth he convinced them that thier poor lot in life was not the fault of flawed social arrangements, but was the fault of outsiders and minorities. Authoritarianism wasnt the problem, the problem was that Germans were victims of a vast conspiricy because they were so special.

Sound familiar anyone?

[fujiyama]

6. These people

are incoherant fools.

Does he have a point about his rant? Is hating Nazis bad or something? I thought Islam was the new Nazism to these freaks? Or wait is Islam the new communism?

Nope, the truth is that THEY are the new Nazis. They are fuckin brown shirts and they know it. Absolute subservance. No dissent. Punishment for those that speak out.

[Up2Late]

9. I think what happens with guy like that is, when they actually do...

...start to piece the propaganda together, it starts to swirl around in their heads, creating a vortex or even a worm hole, and what you end up hearing is what jets out of that "Black Hole" that the vortex created.:crazy: :hide: :nuke:

[teryang]

8. the list of most dangerous books program

What a bunch of propaganda.

Darwin and Paul Erlich were on the honorable mention list as I recall. This program was extremely biased although a few of callers set the propagandist pandering this list straight. The guy was an incredible sophist.

[Placebo]

10. Yes! Thank you!

I was trying to remember what the hell it was. It was sickening.

Human Events Online. :puke:

[Up2Late]

11. O.K., I think I'm just going to have to keep my CD-ROM Dictionary...

...loaded in the drive, had to look up Sophist.

soph·ist (SO-FIST)* n. 1.a. One skilled in elaborate and devious argumentation. b. A scholar or thinker. 2. Sophist.a. A Greek philosopher of pre-Socratic times who inquired about and speculated on theology, metaphysics, mathematics, and the natural and biological sciences. b. A professional philosopher and teacher, especially one belonging to a group of fifth-century B.C. Greek philosophers who specialized in dialectic, argumentation, and rhetoric and who were often known for their elaborate and specious arguments.

*NOTE: the pronunciation guide symbols don't translate well on this board, had to fake it.:evilgrin:

[agincourt]

13. Somebody was listening to pigboy radio,

they got excited, and had to call in. If Rush told these people gold was the worlds most plentiful element, they would believe it.

[tmorelli415]

14. 'National Socialism' is not based on 'socialism'

This is a total uneducated assumption to say Nazi-ism (National Socialism) is based on socialism, arrived at by the misleading name of the Nazi party. National socialism is a far right philosophy based on fascism and 'nationalism'. The choice of name for the party was selected to reflect that the followers did not see it so much as a political philosophy but a kind of 'society' or nationalist 'social order' . Goebbels suggested that National Socialism was more aptly called 'corporatism' because it espoused a totally free and unregulated market in which corporations were given rights as if they were individual people- that is completely counter to socialism which believes in public ownership of critical infrastructure, redistribution of wealth, and regulation of the market. The caller was an idiot plain and simple.

Republicans are far more full of 'nationalist' fervor than are Democrats, and they are far more concerned with enforcing a specific 'social order'. Facts are facts, and the National Socialists would be far more at home in the Republican party than as Democrats. Whenever I hear the words 'homeland security', I think 'fatherland' - very spooky.

Sorry couldn't resist - I'm a poli sci major. ;-)

[Clark2008]

16. Kudos

And correct you are.

My dad's a war historian - and this is what I was taught as well.

[MojoXN]

17. Well, you know that and I know that...

But you can't expect those fucking Dubyites to know that. Knowing what you are talking about usually precludes Republicanistic fervor, but as Cock Cheney illustrates, that isn't always true.

[aion]

24. You are kinda right

If my mother was a socialist, and my father was a nationalist, then the marriage can be said to be of a national-socialist sort.

What makes nationalism different from plain ole garden variety socialism? The citizenry was altered to exclude non pure-blood germans -- both politically as well as economically.

You cannot ignore that Hitler's party was born from the German Worker's Party. In fact, it was the left-leaning tendencies of the GWP which prompted the German Army to send Hitler in to infiltrate. Once in, Hitler changed the 'benefits plan' so to speak. To participate, you had to be a pure-blood German.

In a dog-eat-dog world, right after the collapse of Wall Street, and with 3x as many people unemployed -- the German people turned on itself. They kept their socialist policies -- but only for pure-blooded germans. In fact, Hitler even made war profiteering illegal.

[Kellanved]

32. you are kinda wrong

Anti-capitalism is not socialism.

The DAP was identical to the NSDAP - it wasn't born out from it; the German worker's party only changed its name. By the time Hitler joined up, the German Worker's party had 55 mmebers.

But yeah, there was the "Strasser" group. These guys were anti-capitalist, all right; but they left the party in 1930. And rest assured: whatever they were, it was neither left, nor Socialist.

[aion]

33. It was Socialism, but with an excluded segment of the population

I am not going to quibble with you about the definition of the term Socialism. Suffice it to say, however, that there are different definitions. Some seem to be a more or less welfare-state system, and others seem to be full-blown communism.

To suggest that Hitler's Nazi party wasn't socialistic is simply wrong. They held many socialistic principles -- but not for the population at large, only a certain sub-group of pure-blood Germans were the benefits of this socialism.

With 4 million unemployed citizens in Germany, do you really believe that there was no government welfare system? No government-supported fire department or schools? Was there no social safety net whatsoever? Of course there was -- provided you were Aryan. The rest were damned -- Jews, Gypsies, Poles, French...it didn't matter. Do you really believe that the factories could spit out whatever they wanted to produce? Whatever the 'free market' dictated? Of course not, there was a war to be fought.

From the perspective of a Jew, Gypsie, Pole or French (and perhaps from an objective observer), this was not socialism. These people were excluded from participating in the safety net -- the socialistic system denied them benefits because of their race.

[Kellanved]

36. it was anti-Marxist, anti-Socialist and anti-Communist from the beginning

To say that the party was Socialist/followed Socialist ideas is simply incorrect. The group of nazis whose papers are used today to paint that picture left the party in 1930 - prior to the Nazis seizing power.

The similarities are on the same level as saying "Nazis were breathing and Socialists breath. Hence Socialists must be nazis".


The Nazi's target demographic was the lower middle class; not the workers. The Weimar Republic had a social security net, inherited from the empire; it wasn't a Nazi installation.

[aion]

38. Either/Or thinking is dangerous to your mind

You obviously are using a different definition of Socialism than I am. When you take money from the people, and spend it on their collective benefit -- I call that socialism. Social programs = socialism.

Were they far-left in their socialism? Of course not. They were absolutely terrified by the prospects of Bolshevism taking root in the fatherland. Were they stripping the social safety net and moving further to the right? Of course. The continuim is not an either/or sort -- there are many stages inbetween.

I suppose next you will tell me that the USA hasn't any socialism left to it?

[Kellanved]

43. Even so.

There is line between "social" and "socialist". The prior describing actual policies, the latter being a goal to attain.

Nobody denies that there were programs appearing to be beneficiary for the broad (German citizens only, naturally) public - with big load of propaganda to back that view up.
That sort of thing has nothing to do with socialism; it is in the nature of dictatorships that the dictator wants to appear caring for the people.

Most of those later turned out to be military in nature anyway.

[K-W]

95. No, it wasnt socialism

Hitler took money from the groups he marginalized and from foriegn conquest primarily. The existance of a welfare system to appease the unemployed is hardly proof of socialism. Socialism presupposes a government of some legitimacy. A totalitarian government is a totalitarian government, the theory of socialism simply doesnt apply.

"When you take money from the people, and spend it on their collective benefit -- I call that socialism."

This definition is uninformative, it could apply to almost any government in the history of mankind. Almost every ruler or government has spent some capital on things that benefit the group, that isnt socialism.

Facism simply is not socialism. The two theories are incompatible.

[aion]

35. Corporatism = Fascism

I thought it was Mussolini who coined the Corporatism term... You sure about that?

[K-W]

96. As I understand it, corporatism refers to any system of government

where power is destributed into multiple destinct organizations in different sectors in society.

[Tux]

15. Well

This liberal hates Nazis for killing millions of people for no reason. Jews, gays, handicaped, etc all killed for Fatherland. Yeah, I can't stand Nazism but not because they hated communism (which doesn't work since it leaves out shipping, retail, and services industries and focuses too much on factories).

[deadparrot]

18. Ah, well, he's caught me.

What can I say?

Long live Stalin. And such. :crazy:

[Placebo]

90. ...

:rofl:

[tsuki]

19. Why Madison, Wisconsin?

[Placebo]

91. I wish I knew...

probably because that's where the caller was from, and ya know those freepers, if they see one of anything they scream "CRISIS! CRISIS!" ;)

[truthisfreedom]

21. what a couple of crackpots! *yawn*

wake me when someone learns their history.

[aion]

22. Party Names vs. Party Platforms

Hitler infiltrated the German Workers Party and changed it into the Nazi party. Hitler was actually sent into the party by the German Army -- which was worried that it (the GWP) was a left-wing revolutionary group.

By April 1920, Hitler convinced the party to change its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party -- in an attempt to gain some numbers, and more importantly to set upon a Nationalist course.

Interestingly enough, it was probably our own Wall Street Crash in October 1929 which gave Hitler the boost. Before the crash, 1.25 million people were unemployed in Germany. By the end of 1930, it was nearly 4 million.

There are some elements of Hitler's policies which were quite socialistic -- and which I would have a difficult time imagining a George Bush or a Rumsfeld or a Wolfowitz advocating. Hitler made war profiteering illegal.

[CTLawGuy]

28. "Hitler made war profiteering illegal. "

He did?

Ever see Schindler's List? The Nazis sold captured Jewish workers from occupied Poland and Hungary to Oskar Schindler ostensibly so he could mnaufacture weaponry for the German Army.

If that's not war profiteering, I dunno what is.

[aion]

29. Slave labor doesn't necessarily mean Schindler was a war profiteer

It would not have been war profiteering under a Nationalistic governing style. Disgusting, of course. But since the Jews were not a part of the socialistic aparatus (only blood Germans were), they were only seen as slave labor. That doesn't make it right. And I understand your point -- it is slave labor. But the 'profits' are the question/issue in war profiteering. Not the labor.

If Schindler was being taxed at 90% from that slave labor, and the money was then passed down to only blood-Germans, you can't really say that HE was a war profiteer.

[CTLawGuy]

30. unless I misunderstand "war profiteering"

the jews were captured from Poland in Hungary in a "war"
and they were sent to Schindler's factory to work. Schindler did not pay them and made money - "profits" - off of them.

Am I missing something?

See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler

"Oskar Schindler (April 28, 1908 – October 9, 1974) was a German businessman famous for his efforts to save his Jewish workers from the Holocaust. He saved up to 1,200 Jews by having them work in his munitions factory in what is now the Czech Republic.

Schindler was born in Svitavy (Zwittau), Bohemia (then part of Austria-Hungary, now Czech Republic), into a wealthy business family. The family suffered in the Great Depression of the 1930s and Schindler joined the Nazi Party. He was a dilettante and an opportunistic businessman. Following the German invasion of Poland, he was one of many Germans who sought a profit in the new territory. Schindler cheaply acquired a factory in Krakau, which he named Deutsche Emaillewaren-Fabrik, producing enamelware. He also obtained around 1,300 Jewish slave labourers in order to work at the plant. Some say that he was, at least initially, motivated by money—hiding wealthy Jewish investors, for instance—but later he began shielding his workers more actively. He would, for instance, claim that unskilled workers were in fact essential to the working of the factory, and that any harm to them would result in him raising complaints and demanding compensation from the government."

[aion]

31. war profiteering means more than making some profit

By that time, the Jews/Poles were not considered Germans. They were not included in the social programs which the CONFISCATORY taxes were paying for.

In order for Schindler to be accused of War Profiteering, you would have to show that he was selling these wares, at higher than permitted profit levels, back to the Nazi war machine.

The German mentality at the time was quite simplistic -- either you fight, or you work. You were not permitted to sit by and simply be a pacifist. They included you whether you liked it or not. Such would likely be the case here as well -- if they were to institute a draft again. What happens to you when you refuse to be drafted? Well, in our RICH country, you simply go to prison. But if we had the economy that the Germans had, and also most of the civilized world in a war with us, I doubt you would be allowed to sit idly by while other 'real men' did the fighting/working. They'd have you on a work detail too...or worse.

The Germans stopped being socialistic when they excluded, for genetic reasons, certain segments of their population. But even as nationalists, they adopted many socialistic policies -- but the fruits went to German true-bloods rather than the population at large.

As far as the Germans were concerned, Schindler was providing much-needed goods at a cost which was quite below average. He went to Poland, and today's fascists go to China/India.

[ET Awful]

42. War profiteering does not require him to be

seling at "higher than permitted profit levels". It requires that he be making profit by means other than would be considered legitimate by the world at large, which means and which profit would not exist without a war and without the support of said profiteer for said war.

There is a very telling recollection from Emily Schindler which is quoted in the book when Oskar told her that in every business venture he'd ever tried, there was always something missing that caused it to fail. When she asked him what was missing, his reply was "war."

He bribed German officials with black market goods and gifts in order to secure military contracts for the products from his enamelware factory which he wsa only able to purchase because it had been put in receivership because it was Jewish owned and Jews could no longer own businesses. He lived in a home that had been confiscated from Jews who had been deported.

These are all profits made as a result of war.

Schindler falls well within the definition of war profiteer.

[aion]

44. $0.01 above cost = war profiteer?

You are focusing on the source of the profit, not the amount. Using your definition, anyone who produces military equipment for an amount even 1 cent above cost would be a war profiteer. That would be the most ridiculous definition of the term I have ever seen. It certainly wouldn't have been covered by the anti-war-profiteering rules that Hitler put in place.

You are appealing to something higher than German law -- human nature, human law, international law, etc. From the perspective of German law, Schindler wouldn't have been considered a war profiteer. He was not gouging the then German public.

[Kellanved]

45. different sides of war profiteering

The Nazis encouraged (one might say they made it a national pastime) war profiteering. However, they did not do it by exploding prices.

Saying that it was "buyer side war profiteering" might be a good way to put it. The people taking pillaged goods, companies and labor from the nazis were profiteering - period.

[aion]

50. Helping, not hindering, the German war machine or people

Correct -- but not at the expense of the THEN German citizens. To those who were NOT citizens, such would have been seen as war profiteering. But from the perspective of a German, Schindler was an entrepreneur who was helping, not hindering, the german war machine or people.

[ET Awful]

60. How kind of you to think that only the "German point of view" matters.

I'm sure the Nuremburg tribunal would disagree.

[aion]

67. Marxism is one kind of Socialism -- only one

I never said that only the German point of view matters. I said that there are two perspectives. You seem to ignore one of them completely.

As for the Nuremburg Tribunal, I don't see your point. Victor's justice is not the same as truth.

If the USA were put through the same meat grinder of economics that the Germans suffered, I doubt we'd come out of it without a few Nuremburg swingers of our own. As I said before, we wouldn't allow people to refuse to participate/work if our own nation's soverignity was at stake.

You seem to think that I am defending Schindler. I am doing nothing of the sort. I am trying to show you that there are different perspectives in the world other than your own. Socialism is not an easily-defined term...and not all socialistic theories are Marxist.

[ET Awful]

69. You are trying to redefine Fascism and Corporatism as Socialism

and attempting to say that Hitler outlawed war-profiteering, both of which are complete nonsense.

Without war profiteering, Hitler could not have waged war. IG Farben was the source of the majority of Hitlers war machine. If IG Farben did not exist, Hitler could not have waged war. IG Farben fallowed the German army around, absorbed companies in every country that Germany occupied, used slave labor in those companies and made more profit than any company in the world during WW II.

Your statement that war profiteering was outlawed is preposterous.

[ET Awful]

46. LOL . . . If you get an entire factory for a fraction of what it would

cost to buy in a legitimate market, your cost has gone down. You are making profit off war. If you chose to pay the German Army less money for slave labor than you would have to pay Poles to work in your factory, as Schindler did, you are profiting off of war.

Once again, there were NO anti-profiteering rules in place. This is bullshit. Simply look at IG Farben, without whom Hitler could not have even formed a military, look at the FACT that they were the single largest profiteer off of World War II.

I quoted below, and I'll quote it again, since you apparently don't want to read it:

"One hundred percent of all explosives and one hundred percent of all synthetic gasoline came from the factories of IG Farben. Whenever the German Wehrmacht conquered another country, IG Farben followed, systematically taking over the industries of those countries. Through this close collaboration with Hitler's Wehrmacht, IG Farben participated in the plunder of Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France and all other countries conquered by the Nazis.

The U.S. government investigation of the factors that led to the Second World War in 1946 came to the conclusion that without IG Farben the Second World War would simply not have been possible. We have to come to grips with the fact that it was not a psychopath, Adolph Hitler, or bad genes of the German people that brought about the Second World War. Economic greed by companies like Bayer, BASF and Hoechst was the key factor in bringing about the Holocaust."

Without war profiteering, WW 2 would not have happened.

[aion]

53. At the expense of your own people/country/cause

You are not understanding the definition of War Profiteering. It is not simply making profit from a war. It is making profit AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE/COUNTRY/CAUSE. Since the Jews/Poles/French were not considered Germans, and were not officially members of the Reich, they were not factored into the equation. As I said -- from the perspective of a German, under German law, you need more than simply making a profit. You must be undermining the cause with your profits -- which Schindler most certainly wasn't doing.

[ET Awful]

55. Nonsense.

War profiteering is engaging in war for profit. The profit does not have to come from your own people, all that is required for it to be war profiteering is proof that you made profit off of the war in return for your support of the war effort, which profit could not have been made otherwise.

If Halliburton helps fund a war in Iraq, and in return gets control of Iraqi oil which is shipped all over the world, that is indeed war profiteering.

If a major diamond concern funds and promotes a war against South Africa, gains control of the diamond mines there and sells those diamonds throughout the world, they war guilty of war profiteering.

You must be undermining the cause through your profiteering? BULLSHIT. In fact, quite the contrary is true. If you are supporting the cause and making a profit because of that support and that profit would not exist if your support had not made the war possible, you are a war profiteer.

[aion]

58. My 82 year old grandmother was not a war profiteer

Then any war must yield war profiteers, unless workers work voluntarilly or slave labor. That is not a normal definition of war profiteering. War profiteering means more than simply making some sort of profit from a war. Who would do the job/work if there wasn't some pay/profit in it? You expect that Schindler would do it out of a feeling of patriotic duty?

By the way, my grandmother worked for General Electric during world war II. She will be happy to know that you consider her a war profiteer.

[ET Awful]

59. Did she actively encourage war? Did she FUND THE WAR

with the express intent of making a profit thereby? No? Did she purchas a factory which was stolen from its legitimate owners by the military at a fraction of its cost? No? Hmmm. Did she buy slave labor that would not have existed but for her support of the war? No? Oh. Did she exploit populations of conquered countries that could not have been conquered without her support? No? I see.

Good job of twisting words.

I didn't say it was just making profit from war (you once again prove that you don't actually read). I said it involved promoting the war, funding the war, supporting the war with the express intent of making a profit.

Learn to read, read a history book, then come back.

Or even better, go here http://www.oskarschindler.com/ read the first couple of paragraphs, then come back. Even pro-Schindler sites acknowledge him as a war profiteer.

Hell, even the US Holocaust Memorial recognized Schindler as a war profiteer http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/schindler/schindler.php

Itzhak Stern, his accountant at the Enamel factory even says he was a war profiteer.

It would seem you're the only one confused.

[aion]

63. How much money did Schindler make for HIMSELF?

You cannot understand, because you are blinded by your own partisanship. If you hold Schindler to an international standard, rather than holding him accountable to German laws of the times, he was a war profiteer. In order to be a war profiteer, his profits would have needed to have come AT THE EXPENSE OF THE STATE/PEOPLE/CAUSE of Germany. Raiding foreign lands doesn't count as war profiteering -- because it isn't at the expense of the STATE/PEOPLE/CAUSE of Germans.

My point was that Schindler wasn't a war profiteer simply because he profitted. My grandmother profitted, and she still profits today -- she is collecting Social Security checks based on payments she made back then. Obviously there needs to be something more.

If you owned the technology that would save our country's butt in a war, but you refused to allow that technology to be used (patent, copyright, etc.) without enormous profits to yourself, that is war profiteering...by any and all definitions.

How much money did Schindler make for HIMSELF (as opposed to 'for THE REICH')?

[ET Awful]

64. Once again. Read the history.

As I said many times above, he WAS a profiteer. He made millions, he eventually redeemed himself and spent the money to save his slave labor force, but that was far from his intent at the beginning.

I'm not the one that defines him as a profiteer, history is. I'll tell you what, go to Google, do a search for Oskar Schindler war profiteer. You will find site after site after site, all pro Schindler and ALL defining him as a war profiteer. Here, I'll even give you the link: http://www.google.com/search?q=oskar+schindler+war+profiteer&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

If you don't like it, talk to the historians.

Your grandmother didn't purchase a company with the express intent of profitting off of war by taking advantage of the exploitation of the victims of war. You trying to lump her into the same information I'm presenting simply indicates the intellectual dishonesty of your argument.

[aion]

65. Legal Definitions are not the same as Moral definitions

As one who has a degree in philosophy, I take seriously your claim of intellectual dishonesty. But you are wrong. My intent was to show that making profits is NOT ENOUGH to make one a war profiteer. Under German Law, Schindler was not profiteering. His endeavors provided the German war machine with goods at costs which were quite palatable to the German government. If you want to call him a war profiteer, you cannot do it using German laws. You must appeal to an international/universal definition which must include more than simply making a profit...lest my own grandmother be a war profiteer.

I am sure you know what a self-fulfilled prophecy is. When you search Google for something like that, you will find exactly what you want to find. Because you told Google to find it. I could do a search for Clinton+Conspiracy+Lizards+Pleiades and wouldn't be any closer to any truth...although I did just find 87 hits... Does that imply anything meaningful?

[ET Awful]

66. Okay, leave "war profiteer" out and just search for Schindler

You'll still find "war profiteer" listed more often than not.

Every source will refer to him as a profiteer.

You are attempting to re-write history to fit your desire to say that Hitler outlawed war profiteering which is nonsense.

[aion]

68. It makes perfect sense

You simply cannot process it as such, because it goes against what you have been told/taught or 'feel'.

I am not re-writing any history whatsoever. I am telling you that War Profiteering is a rather subjective thing. When you find yourself with the entire civilized world attacking you, and have 4 million unemployed people to contend with, sheist happens.

You have the advantage of viewing the events from the perspective of a victor. Had the Nazis won, I can assure you that a different perspective would have been shown in schools and books.

[ET Awful]

71. The whole world attacking YOU? What the HELL are you talking about?

The whole world wasn't attacking shit at the time Schindler began his profiteering. He left Czechoslovakia to move to Poland to buy a company in receivership that had been stolen by the Germans in order to make a profit off of slave labor.

Once again, he left his home country to move to another country which had been ravaged by war in order to buy a company that had been stolen by the initiators of that war, in order to make a profit by selling to the initiators of that war goods which were manufactured by slave labor which would not exist but for that war.

Schindler worked for German intelligence providing points of military interest in Poland in 1938 (remember, he's from a country that was conquered by Germany, he's not German).

He bought the enamelware factory in 1939, BEFORE, as you say, the whole world was attacking anyone. He did so in anticipation of other invasions Germany had planned, with the desire to make a profit off of the wars Germany was initiating.

It's not subjective. It's pure fact.

[aion]

78. Schindler was in on war planning now? Say huh?

So you're telling me that Hitler was this open with his military plans -- that he'd allow someone like Schindler know his war plans? I find that a bit on the praeposterous side.

[ET Awful]

79. Replied to wrong post

delete

[ET Awful]

80. After taking over Eastern Europe, his plans for Western Europe were

hardly a secret.

Of course, you're not trying to look at facts, you're just trying to justify your made-up history.

Here's a good timeline for you http://www.historyinfilm.com/schnlist/timeline.htm

Schindler was an intelligent man, a shrewd man and a business man. He was out to make a profit off of war.

I notice you once again fail to read and ignore the fact that Schindler left his own country to move to another to buy spoils of war from another country in order to provide his products to the military of that country.

Why do you keep ignoring history?

[aion]

87. War Profiteering is injurious to the country fighting the war

I am not ignoring history. I am telling you, if you would slow down and bother to pay attention, that such PLUNDERING is not war profiteering. War Profiteering is injurious to the country fighting the war, because the profits of the profiteers get in the way of success on the battlefield. Schindler's despicable plundering and slavery was the opposite of war profiteering. They were stealing from other nations -- thus HELPING, rather than HINDERING, their own war efforts.

[CTLawGuy]

73. If you saw Schindler's List

you'd know that at the end of the movie, as Germany surrenders, Schindler tells his Jews that he has to flee because he is a slave labor profiteer and therefore a criminal and the Allies will be after him. It is at that point that the Jews sign a letter explaining how Schindler was helping them.

If he wasn't guilty of war profiteering, why else would the allies be after him? He wasn't a high government official, or a soldier in a concentration camp.

[CTLawGuy]

70. Can you at least show me proof that Hitler supposedly banned

war profiteering?

[ET Awful]

72. I doubt he can, not without running afoul of the fact that IG Farben

was the source of most of Hitlers military might, and that the majority of their production capability was from slave labor provided by war.

[CTLawGuy]

74. the assertion just bothered me

it makes no sense. Hitler would murder milllions of people because of who they were,

but war profiteering??? that's just plain immoral :eyes:

That's why I'm interested in proof.

[ET Awful]

75. Of course, even if such laws did exist, what's on paper and what Hitler

actually did and supported are two different things. Even if such a law existed, it doesn't mean it was enforced, as I said, one only needs look at IG Farben for proof.

[aion]

77. It was in the party platform

It was in the Nazi Party Platform. War profiteering which harms the German people is not the same, to the Germans, as war profiteering which harms non-Germans. That is the point which is escaping so many people around here.

If the USA had the entire world bearing down on us in a world war, do you really think we would forbid someone from going to another country and setting up a slave labor camp to send back materials? We do it all the damn time! Most of Asia is this way -- slave labor...the only difference is that the product is different...we get toys and electronics, instead of guns and bombs.

The people of USA would not concern themselves with whether the USA citizen who went to overseas was 'fair' to the foreign workers. I can quite assure you of that -- once there is a threat of bombs falling on your home, many, if not most, quickly give up such moral platitudes.

[ET Awful]

82. So once again you hinge your whole argument on the german point of

view.

Sorry, but because Hitler says it's not war profiteering doesn't make it so.

Quick provide proof that IG Farben wasn't guilty of war profiteering.

[aion]

84. Expropriating wealth is not war profiteering

Expropriating the wealth from members outside your own citizenry is not normally called War Profiteering. That's normally called plundering. War Profiteering is a bit more complicated than you are making it out to be. In order to be guilty of War Profiteering, you must appeal to some legal order as a basis/foundation for your claim.

If companies made their money by outright stealing it from the rest of the world, that in no way would be considered war profiteering. It is plundering. It's the order of the skull and bones -- the order of pirates.

[ET Awful]

85. So now you're telling us that the most notorious war profiteer of all time

isn't a war profiteer? Using your argument, IG Farben wasn't a war profiteering corporation.

I'm done with you. Your devout willingness to redefine history in order fit your nonsense isn't worth debating with.

[aion]

86. Your bifurcated mind

I have not redefined anything. You keep putting words in my mouth, though. Your mind is so obviously bifurcated that I can only suggest you read my words a little slower and a little more carefully.

I never said that they didn't profit from war. I never said that they didn't profit from war in about the most disgusting way possible. I am saying that it wouldn't be covered by War Profiteering statutes in any country. Expropriating wealth from other countries, especially during the hard times found during war, is almost always seen as patriotic and helpful.

War Profiteering harms the country fighting the war, because the profits from the War Profiteers get in the way of success on the battlefield.

[CTLawGuy]

76. are US companies in Iraq war profiteers?

NT

[ET Awful]

40. To those arguing that Schindler wasn't a war profiteer, nonsense.

He was, though he redeemed himself for the most part.

As to Hitler outlawing war profiteering, also nonsense. Are you not familiar with the I.G. Farben company? I.G. Farben was the single largest profiteer in WW II. This is why 24 board members of that corporation were convicted for war crimes by the Nuremberg tribunals.

Hitler did not outlaw war profiteering, he actively encouraged it, he engaged in it, he arranged for war profiteering corporations to build factories inside concentration camps to give them better access to forced labor. Without war-profiteering, Hitler could not have fought a war. Without IG Farben, Germany could not have conducted a war.

Someone needs to re-read their history books.

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/PHARMACEUTICAL_BUSINESS/history_of_the_pharmaceutical_industry.htm#nuremberg

"One hundred percent of all explosives and one hundred percent of all synthetic gasoline came from the factories of IG Farben. Whenever the German Wehrmacht conquered another country, IG Farben followed, systematically taking over the industries of those countries. Through this close collaboration with Hitler's Wehrmacht, IG Farben participated in the plunder of Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France and all other countries conquered by the Nazis.

The U.S. government investigation of the factors that led to the Second World War in 1946 came to the conclusion that without IG Farben the Second World War would simply not have been possible. We have to come to grips with the fact that it was not a psychopath, Adolph Hitler, or bad genes of the German people that brought about the Second World War. Economic greed by companies like Bayer, BASF and Hoechst was the key factor in bringing about the Holocaust."

[aion]

47. You can't find one socialistic principle in here?

The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party

1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.

4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:

11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.

(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.

(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.

Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.

24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

[ET Awful]

51. LOL . . . Guess what, I can find "one socialist principle" in any country

I choose to look at. That doesn't mean the government was founded on socialism. Just as I can find one Christian principle in the Decleration of Independence and it in no way means that the US was based on Christianity.

We won't even get into the fact that in the case of Hitler, all of those rules were propaganda and vanished relatively quickly.

It's nice that you can do a Google search, but perhaps you should actually read a book.

[aion]

83. But how many non-socialist leaders explicitly claim to be socialists?

But can you find leaders who claim this:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

Hitler, May 1, 1927

[Kellanved]

57. snarf

We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.

4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

5 Those who are not citizens must ive in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.










That's the 1920 program. Try again with the 1928 one: sample quote: "contrary to the false interpretations by our enemies the NSDAP stands on the basis of private enterprise."

[Kellanved]

49. I agree

self-delete

[ET Awful]

52. Rath may be, but the findings of the Nuremberg tribunal and the US

committees at the time are fairly solid.

[magellan]

25. The Wikipedia entry on Nazism says it all

Hitler extended his rationalizations into religious doctrine, claiming that those who agreed with and taught his "truths," were "true" or "master" religions, because they would "create mastery" by avoiding comforting lies. Those that preach love and tolerance, "in contravention to the facts," were said to be "slave" or "false" religions. The man who recognizes these "truths," Hitler continued, was said to be a "natural leader," and those who deny it were said to be "natural slaves." "Slaves," especially intelligent ones he claimed, were always attempting to hinder masters by promoting false religious and political doctrines.

He also took many popular elements from socialism, such as socializing the property of the rich to benefit the masses, abolishing profits and rents and generously increasing social benefits. Nevertheless, Nazis considered pure socialists and communists, not merely liberals, as their enemies.

Hitler's theories were not only attractive to Germans. People in positions of wealth and power in other nations saw them as beneficial."

....

What became the Nazi movement arose out of resistance to the Bolshevik-inspired insurgencies that occurred in Germany in the aftermath of the First World War.

...

Capitalists and conservatives in Germany feared that a takeover by the Communists was inevitable and did not trust the democratic parties of the Weimar Republic to be able to resist a communist revolution. Increasing numbers of capitalists began looking to the nationalist movements as a bulwark against Bolshevism.

Corporatist, anti-democratic, kool-aid religion of intolerance, rewards for conformity, expulsion of (or death to) anyone deemed inferior or counter-policy, and attracting the rich....

Reeks of our Reich Wing.

[applegrove]

26. Freepers are always trying to re-history Hitler. They turn him into

a fine propagandist and blame Woodrow Wilson (dead 20 years by the outbreak of WWII) for WWII.

They also try and put th Nazis at the left end of the scale. They use that "they were called socialist" trick often. The reason why is because there can be no 'bad examples' of right wing totalitarianism...so that their Utopia will work (the neocon one).

All you have to do is rewrite history in order to put your guys out there in a Utopia ... and you just move any bad examples on that kind of Utopia in practice - over to the opposition. Done! The land is as free and clear as a stream of fresh water.

Just remind them that all Utopias are bad. That Hitler, along with a few Latin American rulers, took the idea of fascism to the right in the 20th century. Nazis were corporate lovers and liked industry in the people in their countries - that is the people who they didn't want dead.

[Skittles]

27. that's a new one

I don't recall any liberals singing the praises of communism OR nazism

[liberalitch]

34. And he likes Nazis because....... (?)

[Placebo]

92. my thoughts exactly

:shrug:

[ET Awful]

37. First, one has but to read any of Hitlers speeches to know that he was

diabolically oppposed to Socialism, Communism, Marxixm and any other ism whose roots could be traced back to the thoughts and philosophies of Marx and Engels. He viewed all of them to be inventions of "educated Jews" who sought to control the worlds economy.

Nazism was indeed right-wing, it was nothing more than a different adjunct of fascism, which as Mussolini himself said is more accurately defined as corporatism because contrary to communism and socialism where for the most part the government controls the means of production, under fascism, corporations control or become part and parcel of the government.

If the ignorant bastard would pull his head from Rush's nether regions once in a while and read say . . . a GERMAN paper (and who would know more about Nazis than Germans?) and read every report ever generated about neo-nazi happenings in Europe, he would notice that throughout Europe, such ravings are always referred to as "far-right wing," almost without exception.

These people are so amazingly ignorant that you almost feel sorry for them, then you remember that their ignorance is killing people.

[aion]

39. Socialism is NOT the same as Communism

Figure out what seperates Socialism from Communism, and you might be onto something.

[ET Awful]

41. Show me where I said it was.

I never said that.

Socialism did however arise out of the teachings and philosphies of Marx and Engels.

Perhaps if you'd read what I said instead of what you wanted me to say, you might be on to something.

[aion]

54. Hitler was against Communism, not Corporatism -- socialism is inbetween

Socialism:
"a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done" (as taken from Webster)

Certainly that seems to be what we had in Nazi Germany circa 1930 -- and here, too. Notice, Socialism sits between the two poles of Capitalism and Communism.

[ET Awful]

56. Once again, you didn't read a damned thing I said did you?

If socialism sits between Communism and Capitalism, Fascism would sit to the right of Capitalism. Fascism, is the right-wing extreme of Capitalism because under Fascism, the corporations control the government, not the reverse.

Hitler DESPISED Socialism, that is why he outlawed the only real socialist party in Germany, the SDP which was OUTLAWED BY THE NAZI PARTY IN 1933. He outlawed the SDP for their opposition to the Enabling Act. In fact, the socialists were the only ones who stood up to Hitler in the Reichstag.

Here's a nice little political poster from 1932 put out by the SDP



It reads: Against Papen, Hitler, Thälmann; List 2, Social Democrats

The SDP was the only real Socialist party in Germany.

You really need to read a history book.

[aion]

61. Gleichschaltung

You need to stop trying to insult my intelligence. I likely have read as many, or more, books as you. You have not presented a definition of Socialism which you can stand behind. There are different kinds of socialism. There is a Marxist socialism which is called Communism, and there are other less intrusive kinds (ie. our own welfare system here in the USA).

From 1933 to 1935 the democratic structure of Germany was replaced with a completely centralized state. The autonomy previously exercised in many matters by the provincial governments was eliminated, and these subnational governments were transformed into strictly controlled instruments of the central government. The Reichstag retained only a ceremonial, not a legislative, function. By a process of coordination (Gleichschaltung), all private organizations of business, labor, and agriculture, as well as education and culture, were subjected to party control and direction. Even the Protestant church was infiltrated by National Socialist doctrines. Special legislation excluded Jews from the protection of German law.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761560927_3/National_Socialism.html

Socialism:
any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

[ET Awful]

62. What you're missing here though is that the motivations are NOT

those of a Socialist society, but of a Fascist society. Corporations like IG Farben were firmly entrenched and in power at the highest levels of the Nazi party. Farben and others engineered the takeover so they could eliminated competition and gain control. This was not an excercise in socialism but in corporatism.

I suggest you also read http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERnazi.htm which gives a pretty decent breakdown.

Hitler was always opposed to Socialism, in fact he only put the term socialism in the party name because the SDP was the largest party at the time and socialism was a popular idea among the populace.

[aion]

88. Doesn't sound too diabolically opposed to Socialism to me...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

Hitler, May 1, 1927

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. that sucker better get his ass back in school

[gordianot]

81. Nazi's truly confuse freepers and neo-cons.

Their views and methods are so close to theirs yet they are repulsed. A classic approach avoidance conflict. They like the tactic and and basic message but not the consequences these type of actions elicit when you consider their actions.

Authoritarian government is the common thread, and domination of the public is the common goal of Fascism and hard core Soviet Chinese Communist. Freepers do not understand authoritarianism.

[aion]

93. Liberation Theology

They're brainwashed into believing they need a king and/or savior. Authoritarianism is Heaven for them -- literally.

I think it was Nicaragua where the unemployed workers were trying to take back the facilities where they worked. They forcibly took back the establishment and prevented the lawful owner from selling the machines off. They paid each other the same wage, regardless of job type.

This video I watched was quite revealing. Not only were they quite competitive, but they went out of the way to tell the camera that they didn't need a savior. They wanted to do it on their own.

This is, as I understand it at least, something to do with Liberation Theology. Rat won't have anything to do with that sort of thinking, however. It doesn't matter if they're one of the fastest growing segments of the Catholic Church...liberation theology is something the new Pope has come out against.

[gordianot]

100. There was an authoritarian thread in Nicaragua.

But the Communist gave up power when they were not re-elected. Perhaps to that degree Liberation Theology represents peoples desires. I made the mistake on DU of questioning the motives of Chavez (Venezuela) coordinating his arms purchases with Cuba and Castro. I see an authoritarian element in Chavez similar to Castro. To me Castro has been one of the best enablers of Neo-Cons and a friend to arms merchants everywhere. On the other hand even though I have doubts about Chavez he should be left alone from U.S. intervention, if they want to spend oil revenue on the people of Venezuela that is great.

I'm all for the idea of not wanting a savior, but the people we have elected are not looking out for our interests. I guess this make me a left of center libertarian.

[K-W]

102. You are a bit confused.

The communists werent in power in Nicaragua. And there wasnt any particular authoritarian trend. They were just limited in thier ability to accomplish much of anything fighting a war against a US backed opponant.

If you see an authoritarian element in Chavez similar to Castro I think youve got some ideological blinders on. Chavez is a democratically elected leader of a populiast government who has showed no signs of tyranical leanings and he has been presented with plenty of opportunities, including a coup attempt. If he was Castro, or anything like Castro, he'd have made his move already.

[gordianot]

104. We are talking about Ortega in Nicaragua correct.

True Ortega never called himself Communist. He honored his election much better than United States Republicans so calm down I am not slamming him. I do know someone who made a couple trips to Nicaragua during this period and met Ortega. Based on their experience I have some reservations.

As far as Chavez is concerned my concern about him is his military association with Castro who is an authoritarian and a major trouble maker. The United States has no business working for Chavez downfall or assassination and certainly should not be involved in the internal affairs of Venezuela. My personal opinion about Chavez is wait and see, however I am posting anonymously on a Political website; have and should have no real voice in the matter. I wish President Chavez the best and hope he improves the lives of the people of Venezuela.

[Old_Fart]

89. Unbelievable

Who is feeding the republicans this information? Did you notice that the host didn't question the caller about his comments and where his ideas came from?

[Iris]

97. Was this in regard to the 10 Most "Dangerous" Books list?

Yeah. The only reason we hate Nazi's is because they hate communism. That's brilliant.

[Placebo]

98. Yes!

What a crock.

[Initech]

99. What books are on that list?

I'm interested to know!

[gordianot]

101. It was here theo other day on DU can't find it now.

[Iris]

103. The Authoritarian Personality, The Kinsey Report, The Feminine Mystique,

The Communist Manifesto. Those are all I can think of.

Runners up included Darwin's Theory of Evolution. The editor thought "The Jungle" should also be included because it "elevated the working class" and "demonized the producing class and entrepreneurs" but it didn't even make runner up.

[DuaneBidoux]

105. Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.

[Iris]

106. Or, Not all conservatives are afraid but most frightened people are

conservative!