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It's Going to Explode!!.but it's going to be an explosion controlled by us

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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:18 AM
Original message
It's Going to Explode!!.but it's going to be an explosion controlled by us
Think about something for a moment while you're grinding your teeth.

We at DU are painfully aware (drives us nuts daily)how apathetic, disinterested and ignorant the American people are about what's going on in their government.

I'll guarantee you that the vast majority of them have no idea what this filibuster/judicial "thing-ie" is or that it took place. Only big things catch their attentions, like 'we're goin' to war, Mildred" or every 4 years, the names of the two guys running for president (and it was appalling how many didn't know the name of the 'dem guy' last year).

If we had let this issue go all the way to nuclear over these level judges, the American people would have yawned, scratched their nuts, hit the channel changer and not given a rat's ass. Thus the door would have been open for a very quiet placement on the Supreme Court. Our only hope to connect to the people and get it through their dead brains about what packing the court with these darling fascists means to them, is when we get to the big dance--i.e., the Supreme Court level of judges.

Yes, this 'deal' is, of course, going to eventually explode. But we are going to be able to keep our powder dry until the big event when we can get the most bang out of it. Another way of putting it is: we're lucky we didn't have to prematurely ejaculate. The time to blow up D.C. with front page fireworks is when it's focused on one man/woman at the Supreme Court level who we can make big headlines out of and point out what things will be flushed in people's lives if this type of goon has a life-time appointment to the Supremes.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Didn't Hitler and the Nazi party pack the German courts when...
...took power with their own Nazi judges?

<snip>

F. The Telling Story of French and German Courts During Nazism and Fascism

The common law's constitutional and equity principles have a counterpart in civil law systems. These are the general principles (principes généraux) of France, and the general clauses (Generalklauseln) of Germany. Germany and France were two countries whose judiciaries enabled a reign of terror under Hitler and Pétain. Like common law principles of equity and constitutionalism, general principles and general clauses are judicial doctrines that allow judges to adjudicate under the spirit of the nation's law while interpreting specific legislation. In the words of two French scholars, French general principles allow "the introduction into positive law of moral rules or of principles of natural law."<82>They further explain these principles as a dimension of "fairness," using this untranslatable English word in the original.<83> The German equivalent, the general clauses, has been described as popular in Germany in order to further the judiciary's Rechtsgefühl: its sense or feeling for law in the sense of law and justice.<84>Thus, similarly to common-law judiciaries, civil-law judiciaries have, and, at all relevant times, have had, a mechanism by which judges may mould enacted law on a procrustean bed of justice.

Since the presence of such mechanisms in common law systems has not been enough to ensure that judges use them to overcome and neutralize evil legislation, it might be (as we also postulated with respect to the common law) that the effective use of these mechanisms requires a judiciary to be inculcated as to the necessity of their use. An examination of the judiciaries in Nazi Germany and Vichy France suggests the contrary, however.

Radbruch's blaming judicial positivism for the reign of terror which the Nazi courts enabled overlooked the fact that the traditional judicial positivism of Germany had ended well before Hitler came to power. Germany had, indeed, embraced judicial positivism at one time, with slogans such as "enacted law is enacted law" ("Gesetz ist Gesetz"), and a theory known as "enacted law/statutory positivism" ("Gesetzespositivismus").<85>

These doctrines had given way to increasing judicial activism before 1933. As Ingeborg Maus has noted, judicial activism and anti-positivism became the primary way for Germany's nationalistic and conservative judges to fight the Weimar laws they held in contempt.<86> Although Germany's judges appear to have felt greater sympathy for Hitler's régime than for the Weimar Republic, they continued their anti-positivistic methodology under Hitler:

<more>
<link> http://www.germanlawjournal.com/article.php?id=572
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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Whistle--my point is at this level judges the American people are not
paying any attention. They don't know what the fuss is about---hell, they don't even know there's a fuss!!! We would have blown it all on this level and had no ammo for the biggie battle that many more people in this country just MIGHT pay one iota of attention to. That's why it's good that we have the filibuster/nuclear showdown that of course is going to eventually blow sky high, saved to bring out and light the fuse when he sends up his first little Nazi nominee for the Supreme Court. Given we are the minority and thus nothing more than warm bodies taking up seats in the Senate, we have to be able to pick the times when we can get the most attention out of throwing at grand hissy fit. We are now going to get that chance because of this "deal".
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. i agree, DIA...
We've bought time. But I think we have also, possibly, created a division in the Repub ranks. There are many moderates that are not happy with the direction their Party is going, in my opinion, and this could put a chink in Bush's armor.
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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yep, Kentuck, that's another good by-product of this deal
The fissure was there and was going to eventually happen but this helped blow it open. And any dissent in their ranks is a good thing.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. If the moderate Republicans were smart, they would cross the aisle on the
up and down votes for Owen, Rogers, and Bolton. What better way to let the fanatic right wing know the moderates can have some power too, and let their constituents (those few that are paying attention) know that they are real conservative Republicans, not fundaholic nutjobs.

Also,if Bush vetos the stem cell legislation, I predict that will really be the rift between the extreme Repugs and the moderates. The public overwhelmingly wants stem cell research and that is an issue they are paying close attention to.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. A chink is about all. They still control everything, incl. the broadcast
media. Its a start, and ee need some more "in the middle" republicans to step up- but who?
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maybe providing a few obvious examples of how packing the...
....courst with ultra-conservative right wing judges will rule on cases that affect us can clear up the understanding and shed light on the importance of blocking these nominees.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Do you really think these 3 judges are that more "extreme"...?
than the other 208 that have already been appointed??
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No, not at all, but the two which the group of 14 agreed to remove
...are
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