Reid Outmanuevers Frist(Dkos)

[caligirl]

While some went nuts over the idea of a 'compromise'with the repugs others see it as strategy that worked to force Frist(Rove) into a no win situation. IMHO Reid did a great job with Rove and Frist the loosers. I snipped some comments from the kos thread.



Reid just engaged Frist in a game of chicken, and Frist blinked first.

Reid has been extrememly effective in whipping up opposition to the Nuclear Option, garnering strong grass- and netroots support, editorial board support, and popular support (as the latest polls show scant appetitite for ending the filibuster).

But in order to avoid looking like obstructionists, Demcorats had to make efforts to "find a compromise", lest the chattering class get the vapors from such Democratic intransigence.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/26/133311/075

comments:

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Actually, as I understood it (none / 0)

the GOP had to back away from the nuclear option now, AND on Supreme Court nominees, as part of the "compromise". Read this.

My opinion is that Bush pushed these previously rejected nominees back on the Senate because he KNEW they would be filibustered, and he wanted the nuclear option used now; he didn't want to wait and have it used on a SCOTUS nominee. That would get too much press. He was hoping that the nuclear option would get used on a few judges under the radar, and therefore be in place by the time he nominates someone for SCOTUS.

Reid's compromise would have prevented that. However, I think Reid was magnificent here. My only problem is that it appears we will not be shutting down the Senate as a result. I think that's a mistake. Dems can still push for their positive agenda (it's not going to go anywhere anyway). By not shutting down the Senate, we lose the support of Big Business, who wants legislation passed and has opposed the GOP's nuclear option. If they think they can get their legislation through, they will jump on the bandwagon for the nuclear option.

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I think Markos is right. Reid was gambling on republican arrogance forcing them to refuse the deal. Can you think of a single situation in which the repbulicans have been willing to compromise in any way? The recent bankrupcy bill is a classic example - they even voted against giving breaks to soldiers fighting in Iraq! Talk about campaign material.

Reid was taking a gamble, because if the republicans had shown themselves willing to compromise just a tiny bit, he would have incurred the wrath of a lot of people by having offered the compromise. But, as always, they didn't compromise even that tiny bit.

Remember: They don't want to govern, they want to rule.

by dianem on

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Reid understood the Frist was stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Frist did call Reid's bluff, he could lose his base. Frist loses either way. Brilliant.
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Judy Woodruff to Reid yesterday.... (4.00 / 7)

"Are you saying the President lied, Senator?"

"The President said the WH would stay out of the filibuster fight...the VP was sitting right next to us when he said it..then I saw what VP Cheney said in the newspaper.....Draw your own conclusion, Judy."

I like him.

......................................

I don't think that Frist had a choice... (none / 1)

and I am pretty sure that it was Rove that made the call on this one. Rove gave an interview to USA Today and announced that there would be no deal. I'm inclined to believe that Rove is calling the shots for the party right now, there is a lot of emphasis on convincing the republican base to follow Bush like he is an absolute leader.

Whether it was Frist or Rove who made the call, I think that decision is based on the religious right twisting their arms right now. The religious right feel that they are so close to victory they are getting desperate to clinch it. Some of the rhetoric coming from the right is spectacularly arrogant, their confidence level is out of sync with with the mood of the nation.

Case in point, Janice Rogers Brown is not only one of the contested Justices the republicans are trying to nominate, she is making blunt partisan speeches that appeal directly to the religious right. You can read it here.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-brown26apr26,0,6225135.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Rowdyboy]

1. Reid's move was strategically brilliant.....He offered "compromise"

knowing full well that Frist couldn't possibly accept it, even if he wanted. When Frist fell for it, arrogantly demanding all or nothing, Reid looks like the reasonable party in the dispute.

Harry Reid rose to power from a base in Nevada. He's fought some of the meanest, smartest thugs in the country. He's the right man in the right job.

Rage on Harry Reid (aka the Stormin' Mormon!)

Gotta nominate this thread for the Greatest Page. Our senators did good when they chose Harry.

[KittyWampus]

7. The Stormin' Mormon! Did You Come Up With That? LOL!

can I steal it?

:D

[caligirl]

9. I saw it on the comment thread at kos, Reid's office staffer loved it.

[Rowdyboy]

17. Sorry, I sto;e it from a poster at DailyKos.....Wish I could credit him ..

But I doubt he or she would mind

Harry Reid: The Stormin' Mormon!

[calimary]

22. "The chattering class" is pretty damned good, too.

NOW we're talking.

And BTW, I suspect that if kkkarl rove is out there being interviewed and making these big-ass pronouncements and major policy statements and defiant, straight-out-in-front statements, it's a signal being sent to frist that his time has come AND GONE. I suspect they may be saying it's time for frist to go back to the kiddie table from whence he came (because he's playing like less than even a minor leaguer, and it's time to bring the big gun in to show 'em how it's done. He's just proven conclusively that he doesn't have what it takes).

But I'm not sure it'll be enough at this point. The public opinion polls are consistent, and consistently BAD. And NOT getting any better. Especially on these issues. Yes, the religious wrong are getting desperate. Because they ARE so close to absolute victory and they can now sense it starting to slip through their fingers. There's chum in the water. Just a wee bit more every day. And as long as those polls keep saying that substantial, unspinnable majorities are against them and what the absolute power they covet, the momentum is not with them. It's only gaining traction. As the days go by, and this mess does NOT reverse, you will start seeing more and more newspaper articles and commentaries and editorials first hinting and suspecting, and then flat-out declaring that the second term is already lame-ducksville, brought to a dead stop, everything turning to shit, no free ride anymore, no passing "GO" every fuckin' time and collecting another hassle-free 200-MILLION dollars.

FURTHERMORE, this will be all the moderate Republicans in the Senate and House need to see. They'll come out into the fresh air like newly released hostages liberated from bondage and slavery. bushco is damaged goods at this point, or is starting to be PERCEIVED that way. tom delay is damaged goods. frist might as well have chopped off his own head. The moderates who've been leaned on so hard to join the juggernaut are starting to realize that these guys ain't such big stuff anymore. That air of absolute invincibility is GONE. Do you notice in every article so far, that refers to the Social Security piratization plans - that there is an inevitable mention of the 60-day barnstorming by bush and his pals to sell it, and how the public is resisting and if anything, turning more firmly AGAINST it? That little factoid is being included in these writethrus more and more frequently.

I think we're seeing the beginning of the end. Their glory days are BEHIND them. Sit back and enjoy. If you see one of them teetering, by all means, don't hesitate to give them a friendly SHOVE. And get the popcorn ready.

[autorank]

14. RowdyBoy, I could'nt agree more. Frist plays checkers, Reid plays chess!

This guy looks like Bob Newheart and he operates like Cesare Borgia in "Prince of Foxes." It's about time we had a chess player as Senate Leader. Now, whatever happens we win. Frist fails at "nuking" us, he fails, we win. Frist succeeds at "nuking" us, we shut the place down, Frist fails, we win because we offered a compromise.

Which is why I like to say, it's time for...

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY

[ohioan]

15. You said it in a nutshell!

[Califooyah Operative]

19. indeed. nt

[B0S0X87]

2. Holy crap!

That was brilliant. Good job, Mr. Reid!

[cornermouse]

3. I'm not sure that's how the general public is going to see this.

Just because the republicans didn't agree doesn't mean Reid won.

Don't get me wrong, compromise can be a wonderful thing, but with the public perception that democrats don't have firm beliefs/firm positions that they will not move from, Reid reinforced that public perception of the minute he offered the repubs a compromise.

[xultar]

4. Though I agree the move was Brilliant, watch what the complainers say

coming up here and in other threads.
:popcorn:

[BillZBubb]

8. Oh, I get it

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "complainer".

[caligirl]

11. I didn't read the comment that way. disagree all one wants, Reid took a

calculated chance, he does have years of experience that Frist lacks, and it paid off. Not everyone looks beyond to the real inner workings, some just do not want the suggestion of a compromise with rethugs, but Reid obviously knew the political situation for dems and better still for Frist and Rove. he played them like a viola

[ohioan]

13. It was a really smart move

He took a calculated risk.

Reid likely knew that Frist has gone too far down the path to enter any deal that would involve not pushing through the darlings of his evangelical masters. And, even if Frist did agree - which was highly unlikely - the judges that Reid supposedly was willing to give up are being held up not for any ideological reason, but as leverage to force White House consultation.

Until last night, Reid's people staunchly denied that he had suggested a deal, but I guess they needed to keep their powder dry.

Now Frist and the Republicans look even more obstructionist than ever - they've gone on record demanding that EVERY ONE of Bush's nominees must be confirmed or they will shut the place down.

[xultar]

18. Nope. People who won't give fellow Dems a chance are COMPLAINERS

What are you trying to say.

People here have hated Reid from the start without giving the man a chance. Why don't we do that. That's all I'm saying.

[cornermouse]

10. Whatever.

All I'm saying is that if you can't just look at things from the democratic/your own point of view if you intend to get votes from those who are the more neutral/middle of the road voters. And we do want their votes, don't we?

[caligirl]

5. Check out the 6th district compromise.

All the "compromises" I saw floated (4.00 / 13)

Had Harry controlling the selection of who got the Consent of the Senate. It was funny. Frist couldn't have accepted the 'offer.' Now Frist looks the rejectionist. Go Harry.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
by Rolfyboy6 on Tue Apr 26th, 2005 at 10:32:47 PDT

Smart Reid (4.00 / 6)

Offer them a compromise that's truly a trade-off in power. One that has a semblance of actual fairness, and thus completely unacceptable to both the power-mad, and their loony base.

Reid and the solid Dems behind him is absolutely kicking their ass.

"Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton
by jbeach on Tue Apr 26th, 2005 at 10:35:27 PDT
< Parent >

Yup (4.00 / 11)

I loved the 6th District compromise. Levin and Stabenow have holds on 3 nominees from Michigan in retaliation for Spencer Abraham's 3 year hold on two Clinton nominees who have the two longest nominations without ever getting a hearing. Levin (with Leahy's help) has offered a bipartisan compromise, which was essentially "we'll tell you to drop Henry Saad, you can keep McKeage and Griffin, and then we'll replace Saad with one of the Clinton appointees whose nominations were scuttled by Abraham and Hatch." In effect, Reid's compromise was to give Clinton a final judicial appointment, 4 years after he left office.

Check out our new blog, The Next Hurrah.

[kaitykaity]

6. Who made Karl Rove pull out the rest of his hair?

:rofl:

[caligirl]

12. Thanks for the votes everyone. this is an important event, Reid

let them know we can frame their actions and words. Frist and Rove have lied to the public, leading people to think they never obstructed any of Clintons noms, they obstructed many times more than the handful the rethugs bitch about.

[Rowdyboy]

20. I get very frustrated when the lies aren't challenged....

Clinton had far more judges bblocked by partisanship than Bush ever dreamed of...

[caligirl]

21. Bill Clinton corrected Katie Couric for her leading

question about that very thing. He set her straight on air durring a recent Today Show . I was thrilled to see him go right after this lie, which she perpetuated, as he told her.

[ohioan]

16. JRB speech shows their desperation

A judicial nominee should be seen and not heard during the pendency of their nomination. This goes DOUBLE for a sitting judge, who should not be traipsing about the countryside giving speeches railing about the "war" she's being subjected to. The fact that she's out making this kind of speeches shows that they're in big trouble. Hell, even Clarence Thomas limited his comments about his nomination and the courts to his confirmation hearing testimony.

[Helga Scow Stern]

23. I loved watching Reid on C-Span yesterday...

all the Republicans, who had the same message, kept calling him, "my good friend" and then saying this vomitous nonsense like how unfair it would be to give the power over determining who sits in courts to 41 Senators--probably straight from Rove's talking points for the day.

Reid was so cool and gracious, while calling them on the lies in that gentle, unassuming voice of his.

In the midst of war, he is a tireless and skilled warrior.