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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:04 AM
Original message
Frist is backed into a corner...
The radicals in the Party, including their talk radio hosts, expect him to carry thru with the vote against filibusters. If he does not, it will splinter their Party to some degree. How much? We do not know. But, we can anticipate some blood-letting if Frist backs down on this issue. The line has been drawn in the sand. And they expect it to happen soon. Perhaps in the next week or two? The Democrats need to hold together and, even if they lose the battle, they may win the war? This is a critical moment for both Parties.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. There aren't any
obvious signs that Frist is looking for a way out....and this puzzles me a lot....

how can Frist solidify his Presidential ambitions by pandering to a very distinct minority of party members?

The only other reasonable explanation is that THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY is crazy!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. ewagner, I think you've got the correct theory on Republicans.
Frist especially.

THE CAT BUTCHER has some fancy footwork to do to get out of this. I hope his escape, if it comes at all, is messy as possible.

Go, Dems.
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rwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Frist when he went to Indonesia.
Was heard to say, "Get the destruction behind me".Wanting the good camera angle.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Or they have the Diebold vote locked for the next decade
and they know they will win regardless of the way the American people vote. "You say the exit polls didn't match again? Remember 2000 and 2004, they didn't match the official results then either.. This Proves that they are an unreliable metric and should be ignored".
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I believe the Republicans think they own all church-going people
and that is estimated to be better than 50% of the population of the US.

I personally believe that is a crazy idea, but...

The question is how large a percentage of liberal (as in open-minded) church goers that includes?





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ltfranklin Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. But there's the other half of the equation....
...which is, the so-called "leaders" of all the "church-going people" think they own the Republicans. And now, they're starting to call in the debt.

For years, the Republicans have been making promises and handing out IOU's to the Religious Right, and now the RR is starting to talk about cashing in those IOU's. I wonder if some of those Republican politicians (the ones that are not just as Religious-Right as those they've been supported by) are starting to wonder just exactly what they've gotten themselves into? They're in a situation now where, if they don't do EXACTLY what their new owners want, they're going to be, excuse the expression, crucified!

The correct phrasiology is: Damned if they do, and Damned if they don't!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I am having a personal problem accepting that the US has a
two-party system and one of the parties is founded on religious ideology...

The talking heads speak of this on Sunday mornings but I find it so incredible that I honestly can't get my head around it.

I suppose I am stuck in some developmental state unable to accept reality.


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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yes, ever since the Republicans used the Christian Right to elect Reagan..
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 01:53 PM by Jade Fox
the GOP has been making promises they can't keep, or have the good
sense not to try and keep.

This election the Christian Right made it clear they were tired of this. The
GOP has painted itself into a corner which may prove its downfall.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Very true
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. They were mad at the beginning of the new term because Bush didn't do anything. Now they're using the religious right again. It's like the wife and the abused husband who keeps going back. *sigh*
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. They are crazy
He could be getting orders from someone else since he is the majority leader. He's not running for his seat again next year so it probably won't effect him either way. It's hard to say what's going to happen. There are some republicans who are saying "no" but they could easily be threatned or bought off someway and change their minds. As mentioned if
he fails he probably won't be their nominee in 2008 and they will be mad at him. This could be a makeup on their part of the Terri Schavio ordeal and he's also doing his orders to get support to get rid of the filibuster.
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Rex_Goodheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. It makes me think he doesn't have the votes
in the Senate to kill the filibuster.

Why would he beseech the fundies to beseech their Senators if he already has the votes?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe he is counting on losing this one
Maybe he knows there are enough Republicans voting against it to kill it...so he is free to go out and pander to the neanderthals on the Christian right without really having to make the change, and then getting blamed for the senate grinding to a halt
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Oooooooohhhhhh....now I get it.
he knows he doesn't have the votes and knows that it will go down to defeat....

soooooooooo.....Frist can:

Keep the support of the "radical right" because he was on their side and fought the good fight....

and

keep blaming the Democrats for failure to install justices acceptable to the radical right without having to actually put them in...

and

Promise that if HE is elected President, he will correct the situation above....

Pretty cynical and a little bit :tinfoilhat: but I wouldn't put it past him.....
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Keep blaming the Democrats...
and keep slamming the Mod Republican Senators that don't walk lock step with him.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Makes sense
I could see that. He isn't running for his senate seat again so it won't matter to him either way.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. Frist and the fundies blew their wad way too quickly
They convinced themselves that Bush won a real mandate and are taking full advantage of that myth. The religious nuts are pulling cards from the bottom of the house and they don't understand that the whole structure is about to fall. Keep it up freaks.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Frist has a Plan B
If his filibuster gambit doesn't work, he'll just go back and whine to anyone who will listen (and surprisingly, he'll get all sorts of network and cable outlets willing to put him on) that those mean old Democrats aren't fighting fair, and how they're trying to thwart the will of the people.

All of his questioners will conveniently forget that the Republicans used to pride themselves on being the party of gridlock, Bob Dole particularly extolling the virtues of blue slips and secret holds which the Republicans were so good at using to stop the Senate from taking action on any number of Clinton's nominees.

I believe Frist's next objective will be to declare that "turnabout is fair play" is unconstitutional.
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. His low point (even for Frist) was...
...that little "Sermon On The Mount" adventure.

Bill Frist, "Standing where Jesus stood," delivering the Sermon On the Mount JUST LIKE JESUS, except it WASN'T Jesus, it was Bill "Cat Killer" Frist. This guy brings a whole new meaning to the word "unstable."



http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/0...

"On one memorable day during a tour of Israel, Senator Frist stood on the spot where Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount and read the sermon to the tour group. He electrified them with his simple faith and devotion."

:silly:
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I'm sending that graphic to everyone I know - especially cat lovers
That man is insane.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Frist is suffering from the same perception deficiency as Bush
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 11:27 AM by Coastie for Truth
and the rest of the Reactionary Right GOP and the Rapture Right Heretic/Blasphemers -- they are only talking to themselves and listening to themselves.

Or, as my late father would have cogently stated it (and he managed a lot of Democratic campaigns in the "Steel Valley")

    They only talk to each other, and that's way they believe their own bull shit.


Paul Krugman describes it beautifully in today's op-ed, Paul Krugman, The Oblivious Right, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/25/opinion/25krugman.htm... ?

    "What's going on? Actually, it's quite simple: Mr. Bush and his party talk only to their base - corporate interests and the religious right - and are oblivious to everyone else's concerns.

    <snip> <snip>

    "The point is that people sense, correctly, that Mr. Bush doesn't understand their concerns. He was sold on privatization by people who have made their careers in the self-referential, corporate-sponsored world of conservative think tanks. And he himself has no personal experience with the risks that working families face. He's probably never imagined what it would be like to be destitute in his old age, with no guaranteed income.

    The same syndrome has been visible on cultural issues. Republican leaders in Congress, who talk only to the religious right, were shocked at the public backlash over their meddling in the Schiavo case. Did I mention that Rick Santorum is 14 points behind his likely challenger?

    It all makes you wonder how these people ever ended up running the country in the first place. But remember that in 2000, Mr. Bush pretended to be a moderate, and that in the next two elections he used the Iraq war as a wedge to divide and perplex the Democrats. "


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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Yep
They don't get it. It's all just preaching to the choir and the media eats it up since they take their orders else where.
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's a win-win for us
Americans don't like it when the ruling party gets filled with hubris and begins tinkering with the judiciary. FDR and the Democrats won overwhelmingly but trying to pack the Supreme Court weakened him and the party.

Also, this doesn't hurt the Democratic party in the long run because when the Democrats come back into power, they can just send any judge they want to the bench. The important checks and balances were done away with a long time ago...
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. They Have No Intention Of Allowing Dems Back Into Power. Ever.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 12:06 PM by AndyTiedye
That is why they are :nuke:ing our democracy and replacing it with a theocracy.
Make no mistake. That is the result if the Supreme Court is taken over by the Dominion.
They already control the House and the Presidency.

If ANY of you have Republican senators who still have any respect
for secular society, PLEASE contact them! This could happen any day.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. At which point we have our own Doomsday Option---
<>
To move forward with the Republic of Cascadia and the State of Jefferson

Disclaimer: Not advocating armed rebellion or insurrection against the United States
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good idea
After the complaints from the Key West City Council went unanswered by the Federal Government and attempts to get an injunction against the "blockade" failed in court, Key West mayor Dennis Wardlow and the city council declared the independence of the Conch Republic on April 23, 1982. Since the Federal Government had set up the equivalent of a border station as if the Keys were a foreign nation, they said, the Keys might as well become one. Mayor Wardlow was proclaimed Prime Minister of the republic, which declared war against the U.S. (symbolically breaking a loaf of stale Cuban bread over the head of a man in a navy uniform), quickly surrendered (after one minute), and applied for foreign aid (in the amount of one billion dollars). These actions generated great publicity for the Keys' plight. The roadblock and inspection station were removed soon afterward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Good point
I guess I am a Major General (two star) of the Cascadian Defense Force, -- since I have an FCC "Extra Class" Ham license -- and the lower class below "Extra" is "General" - so I must be a Major General of the Cascadian Defense Force,
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. They very are trying
Maybe we can get to some moderate republicans and ask them for help and show them what Bush and his people are doing. I think right now all we can do is help each other.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. The GOP has only to "splinter" just enough
to push the moderates who voted for Bush back into the Dem column.

:headbang:
rocknation
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't....
Either choice will further divide the unholy alliance in the Republican party.

If Frist ends the Filibuster for a measly 10 radical judges to appease the Rapturist Right, the business community/Wall Street will be angered that THEIR agenda will grind to a halt.

If Frist backs down on stopping the filibuster, the Rapturist Right will DEMAND its pound of flesh and, like the zealots of the 80's, put up their OWN candidates outside of the Republican Party.

Sit back and watch the fun. :popcorn:
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ltfranklin Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. The Religious Right as Loan Sharks...
Let's look on the semi-organized religious right as load sharks...

For years, the Republican's have been able to go to the loan sharks for a quick loan...a block of votes here, a deniable mud-slinging there, a loud-speaker for talking points over there. And that's been good, as long as they kept paying the "nut". Keep paying the interest by passing, or at least attempting to pass, laws and regulations that their load shark likes.

But the loans build up...and sooner or later, the loan shark is going to want something bad enough to "call in" the loan. It's all going to come due, and if it's not paid, theres going to be broken legs, chopped fingers and concrete galoshes all around.

The Republicans are starting to see where some of the Loan Sharks are calling the loans. And perhaps are realizing just exactly what they've let themselves in for...that once they give one or two sharks what they want, they're going to have a feeding frenzy. They're all going to want to get their money's worth, and if they don't get it...fugetaboutit! Their posterior is going to be landscaping!

Check out all these Religious-Right leaders now...what they're talking about now, in not so uncertain terms, is calling in the loans. And the Republicans are about to reap the whirlwind!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. We need to encourage the crazy fundie xtians...
...to split off from the republican party (infidels) and run their OWN candidate for President.
Start running stealth astroturf campaigns (LTTE, radio call in, fake rallys & Protests) condemning the republicans for playing politics with jeeeesuuuus, collecting the money and then NOT pushing the Fundie agenda.

Stress that the BROKEN PROMISES of the Republican Party are an abomination (fundies like that word) and it is time to seek forgiveness from the lord for straying from the path, and become holy again in the eyes of god and run a REAL christian for preznit!!!

I think it is time for Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to run for president!!! jesus would really like that. How could they lose?
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. LOL
You are so right, they LOVE the word abomination.

Yes, the fundies could go back to running their own candidates, like they did in the 80's, but, better yet, let the Republican party keep pandering to the Rapturist Right so the left-behind moderate republicans will vote as a block for Democrats. Need to un-do the damage done by this crowd.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
28. Frist and Delay jumped the shark with the Schiavo circus
that turned a lot of their supporters off. This is just making them look even stupider.

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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Agreed...I don't see a way for the Repubs to win this one
The business community doesn't want it but the the fundies do. The Reps owe their fundie base much and if they back down then the fundies may question their loyalty. If they push it through, the Reps funding base may question their loyalty.

I think their only option is to push it through and try to make the Dems look like obstructionists. I don't think it will work but it could.

Also, more moderate Republicans may question their loyalty to these power hungry fools. They also need some concessions to maintain their lockstep mentality. They have gotten nothing so far.

I hope the party falls apart and soon.
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