How Senators up for re-election in 2006 voted on the Bankruptcy Bill

[flpoljunkie]

Senators who voted NO

Daniel Akaka
Diane Feinstein
Joseph Lieberman
Paul Sarbanes
Ted Kennedy
Jon Corzine
Maria Cantwell


Senators who voted AYE

Thomas Carper
Bill Nelson
Debbie Stabenow
Ben Nelson
Kent Conrad
Robert Byrd
Herb Kohl

James Jeffords (Independent who caucauses with Dems)

Not Voting:

Hillary Clinton (Husband having surgery)

[LynneSin]

1. Guess what, I'm not wasting one second trying to get Carper out of office

Personally, I think it's a waste of time. I mean - should I spend all my time and available cash I use for political donations trying to get rid of Carper because of the Bankerupcy Bill? OR should I use that time and effort instead on a strong chance that we can defeat Rick Santorum out of neighboring state in Pennsylvania.

Seriously - big picture out there and more important fish to fry.

[Deep13]

2. Defeat Santorum...

That is definitely a worthy goal. That guy just oozes with smarm.

[rkc3]

4. Getting rid of that asshole will go a long way to keeping him out of

a bid for GOP candidate for Pres in 2008.

If he can't win as an incumbent in his own state - what will it say for his chances in a national election? Hopefully, not good.

BTW, did I tell you I think santorum is an asshole?

[flpoljunkie]

5. Posted to inform. Agree we do not tilt at windmills.

[ClassWarrior]

7. I'm making sure "Puffy Jim" Sensenbrenner (R) goes down.

I'm not at all thrilled with Herb Kohl's (D) vote on this, but I have a bigger fish to fry - literally. Good luck with Sanctimonium - sounds like you have a chance to take him down this time.

Is that a Spinal Tap animation in your sig?

NGU.

[LynneSin]

8. NO that's from SNL - that's Wil Ferrell

and the Behind the Music: Blue Oyster Cult skit. Funniest one out there!

[ClassWarrior]

10. Ahhh... Looked like Harry Shearer in the front...

<LOL>

NGU.

[rodeodance]

30. Take down Stensy boy--(I get to stay with Tammy B.)

[Deep13]

3. Not the Byrd!?

[BlueInRed]

6. I like the idea of a Wall of Shame for defectors

I think it would end up helping us get defectors from true blue states back on track, and in red states, the defector's own constituency might understand it as a necessary "show of independence".

I am getting really tired of Democrats in very secure seats, put there primarily by the loyalty of hard working Democrats, choosing to avoid core Democratic values (like protecting the little guy from abuse) because it's convenient or will tick off a big time contributor, like the banking industry.

I am mostly frustrated by those who really have nothing to lose by supporting the party's values. Nineteen defectors was just outrageous.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Why paint the party as divided to the public?

Instead, why not arrange a meeting with a staffer from the office of your defector Senator and lay it on the line. Explain how you're connected to the Progressive community in your area, and suggest that you might start talking him/her down to the base. That may be enough to kick him/her into line.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

12. The only way they will shape up is public criticism. What you

suggest won't make any difference to them. And I don't want them out of office; I only want them to act like Democrats. I think much of the behavior is out of fear and they need to be more afraid of not being responsible to the constituency than ticking off some fat cat contributor.

I honestly think this is one of the big problems for Democrats. No one believes that they will actually do what they say and their lack of credibility affects a lot of voters.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Democratic Senators don't care about their base?? LOL

That's a new one to me. Have you tried anything like this? I have - it works.

Which one is YOUR DINO Senator, by the way?

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

17. Yeah, I've tried it before. They don't care about anything but public

stuff. And no, my Senator is not among them. But it has affected Reps votes. And to suggest that the Democrats are responsive to the base is what I personally consider laughable. That is why Dean made it to DNC chair, because the base is getting fed up, IMO.

[ClassWarrior]

18. You don't have any Dem Senators, you say?? Hmmm??...

Maybe you should start worrying about the Republicons in your own back yard and leave us constituents to worry about the DINOs.

And how on earth could you have tried this before if you don't HAVE any Dem Senators?? <LMAO>

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

20. Hey, we COULD have had Dem senators if they played their

hand correctly and don't try to tell me it's none of my business when I live in the very kind of state Democrats are losing and could have won. My state had a fully Democratically-controlled legislature and a majority Democratic Congressional delegation UNTIL THIS YEAR. It's pure BS that we can't have an opinion about it.

And try reading. I have Democratic representatives in Congress and in the state legislature. And just because I don't currently have Democratic Senators doesn't mean I've never had them.

Every Democrat has the right to worry about DINOs. So, shall I assume from your post we will never see you criticizing any elected Democrats who don't live in your state and that you don't personally vote for?

[ClassWarrior]

21. If THEY played their hands correctly??

Why do you leave your fate to them? Why don't you get involved with getting Dems elected? Why don't YOU run yourself?

I know it's easier to sit at a computer and complain, but nothing gets accomplished that way. That's all I'm saying.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

26. Do it yourself and you have zero idea what I do &

I sure don't have to justify it to another person sitting at their computer. You don't have any friggin idea what I or anyone else posting on this board does in real life concerning politics, so quit assuming.

Since you think the only people who have a right to talk are in their own state, follow your own position.

[ClassWarrior]

27. I thought only the Radical RW had to distort someone's position...

...to win an argument. I guess I was wrong.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

28. look at your own posts; full of distortion and assumptions

in fact, very little there besides distortion and false assumption. You told me to stay out of it because it wasn't in my backyard. BS. It is in my backyard, but even if it wasn't, everyone on this board has a right to their own opinion on the actions of our politicians.

[ClassWarrior]

29. I never said you didn't have a right to your opinion.

I said perhaps you might be more effective in defeating the Republicons in your own state than in defeating Democrats in someone else's.

:shrug:

Sorry for expecting Dems to get involved and take control of their own fate...

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

31. like you'd know the extent of my political involvement

You don't know if I was involved in controlling "my own fate" in my own state as you put it. And expressing opinions on this board and to our elected officials is taking control. You just don't happen to like my opinion so you effectively told me to mind my own business and not worry about what reps in other states do. Then you effectively said I wasn't involved in my homestate politics. Then you effectively said I sit at my computer rather than working in politics. All of the statements and assumptions about my involvement are false and you had no way of knowing whether they were true when you wrote it. You thought a snide put down would shut me up.

The actions on this bill are going to hurt some very nice people I know who are on the verge of bankruptcy (hanging on by mere thread) and now are going to be forced to file before the option goes away. You bet I take it personally even if it's someone else's rep or senator. Their actions are going to hurt my friends and it shouldn't have happened.

[ClassWarrior]

32. So how is expressing opinion here taking control of the Dem Party?

And I made no assumptions about your involvement. If you go back and read my posts, you'll see I asked questions - and you've done a good job of avoiding answering them. So no, I don't know your situation. I'll be the first to admit it.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

34. posting opinions here and other places is having a big impact

on the party. I don't think Dean could have made DNC chair without places like DU and DFA and Moveon, etc. The party is changing because of places like DU. And I'm glad for it.

[ClassWarrior]

36. I'm glad too. But we can't get complacent.

Now that we have that momentum, we need to get involved. We need to take over. We need to infiltrate this rotting carcass of a party and instill some Progressive life into it.

Rather than follow Dubya's SS logic - we can build the party by taking people out of it - why don't operate from a strategy of replacing Republicons with Progressives, and then once we outnumber the DINOs, we can put the screws to them?

Now I'm not saying in any way that we shouldn't let these fucks know we're pissed. Trust me, I ripped a new hole in some hapless Kohl aide the other day. I'm just saying let's not form a circular firing squad, to use another poster's phrase, and damage the whole party in the process.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

37. I actually don't want most of them out, just given a wake up call

There are only a couple a Senators (who will remain nameless) who represent a state that would probably elect a much more liberal Democrat. I do think that if they get a lot of grief or seriously think they might be put up against a primary opponent or it would jeopardize their presidential aspirations, we might get some changes on the votes.

I actually think most of the votes were about campaign contributions from the banking industry, rather than a heartfelt belief that this was a good bill. I'd like them to be scared enough about a primary opponent that they follow their hearts instead of the possible campaign war chest.

And I agree we can't be complacent. I totally agree with that. :)

ps - I actually like Kohl and was very surprised by his position.

[ClassWarrior]

41. Hey, I've got Jeckyl and Hyde here...

Jeckyl = Feingold, Hyde = Kohl.

I'm not totally surprised by Herb's vote. He's always been a bit of a corporatist. And I'm all for putting the fear of God into him for just that reason - and trust me, I HAVE AND I WILL. But I think an actual primary challenge - which many here are advocating against the DINOs - would be plain foolish, at least until we have the luxury of a majority.

NGU.

[BlueInRed]

44. ITA about a true primary challenge, I'm always counting the numbers

and I'm happy when we pick up a seat in a red state.

The question is many have been there so long, how do you a effectively light a fire under them without bringing up some votes publically.

I think we'd get more public unity if people knew when they wandered off the reservation. I'm betting almost no one but real activists will even realize their Democratic Senator is one who crossed the line. By the time 2006 rolls around, no one will remember this.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

58. It's not a putdown. It's a reminder of what make us Progressive...

...which means making a conscious effort to avoid spite and deception.

NGU.

[Zhade]

57. They actually told you it was none of your business???

That's downright undemocratic. These assholes work for US (allegedly)!

[ewagner]

52. A variation on your idea....

a face-to-face meeting with a staffer (or even better, with the offending Senator/Rep) is good but what do you think would happen if the staffer was invited to meet you for lunch and ended up facing 100 or so very po'd constituents and press cameras?

Or, if meeting was requested by 100+ contituents?

[BlueInRed]

55. sounds good :)

I think it's mainly about somehow letting them know in a way that says we do care about these votes and if they keep heading off the reservation when it comes to protecting the little guy from abuse, they will end up with some very angry constitutuents.

I'm for any idea that gives them a wake up call. :)

[WI_DEM]

11. credit when credit is due

Joe Lieberman actually voted against the Bankruptsy bill.

[BlueInRed]

13. No credit; he also voted with Rs on cloture and this is typical

of what Lieberman does. This way he scuttles the bill and still gets credit for being on the Democratic side of things. He's done this over and over, and not just on cloture. Many times he votes with Rs on amendments that destroy a bill, then votes with Democrats on the final bill.

This way he gets what he wants while still getting credit for being on the Democratic side of things and showing up good in the "ratings", since most ratings only count the final votes, never the stuff along the way. It frustrates me no end. I never realized he did this until I started paying attention 4 years ago. Now I expect it.

[flpoljunkie]

14. Yes, but he voted for cloture. No cloture, no vote for passage of the bill

Along with Carper, both Nelsons, Stabenow, Conrad, Byrd and Kohl.

Without cloture, the bill would have died on the Senate floor.

[ClassWarrior]

16. Shhhhhh... you're getting in the way of a good hate...

<LOL>

NGU.

[flpoljunkie]

19. Not hate, classwarrior, to point out those Dems who voted against consumer

interests by helping to bring this egregious bankruptcy bill to cloture and thus, it's assured passage.

Lieberman is not alone in this category, and they all deserved to be called out when they fail to stand up for economic justice.

[ClassWarrior]

23. I agree. It's for shit that this bill passed.

And Joementum deserves calling out for what he did wrong. I just think it's interesting that you're so blinded by what the guy did wrong that you can't even give him credit for what he did right. Not very Progressive of you.

NGU.

[cestpaspossible]

22. Why are there no Republicans on your list?

Don't they vote too? Aren't some of them up for reelection in 2006? Don't we want to defeat them?

[ClassWarrior]

24. Listen... I hear crickets...

NGU.

[flpoljunkie]

33. As expected, ALL Republicans voted for this giveaway! Dems who did ought

to hold their heads in shame!

[cestpaspossible]

38. Yeah, but they're not all up for reelection in 2006.

And they're not all equally vulnerable.

[flpoljunkie]

42. Yeah, and without the Dem votes for cloture, bill would not have passed.

After the cloture vote, passage of the bankruptcy bill was a done deal.

[Just Me]

49. Are you under the mistaken impression that this bill is now law?

:shrug:

[flpoljunkie]

53. No, but the House will soon rush to pass it, and Bush happily sign it.

Bush does not care what anyone thinks, that includes his base, a number of whom are not at all happy with this bill.

[knight_of_the_star]

25. How about a list of Mepublicans who voted for it

And are up in 2006. I would rather hurt the enemy than form a circular firing squad. That and pounding the pigs with this issue will be a warning to the dems who voted for it.

[flpoljunkie]

35. Here is the list of Republicans up for re-election in 2006.

They, along with every other Republican, voted for this Bankrtupcy bill, S.256

Jon Kyl
Richard Lugar
Olympia Snowe
Trent Lott
Jim Talent
Conrad Burns
John Ensign
Mike DeWine
Rick Santorum
Lincoln Chafee
Bill Frist
Kay Bailey Hutchison
Orrin Hatch
George Allen
Craig Thomas

[Just Me]

39. Among those Rs, who do you believe most vulnerable?

I can only state my belief that neither Olympia or Kay Bailey are very vulnerable.

I appears that Santorum may be losing face.

If I had my pick of the ones to unseat, they would be Frist, Hatch, Lott, Burns and Santorum.

[flpoljunkie]

40. I think the only one losing to a Dem in polls now is Santorum to Casey.

[Just Me]

45. Most of these Rs have consistently voted against public interests,...

,...and for enabling corporate welfare. I'd like to compile a list demonstrating a pattern of corporate HOing taking priority over the interests of common folks' rights, privileges and benefits.

I wonder how many on this list sided with Bush's cuts on military benefits.

[iwantmycountryback]

43. How any Dem could vote aye for a bill that even

Liebermann and Feinstein voted nay on boggles my mind. This is absolutely disgusting. I'm really surprised to see these votes from Byrd, Stabenow, and Conrad.

[flpoljunkie]

46. I think they owe their constituents, D's and R's alike, an explanation.

[flpoljunkie]

48. From 3.5-20% of bankruptcy filers will now be unable to disolve debts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27000-2005Mar11.html

Between 30,000 and 210,000 people - from 3.5 percent to 20 percent of those who dissolve their debts in bankruptcy each year - would be disqualified from doing so under the legislation, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.

The legislation would set up an income-based test for measuring a debtor's ability to repay debts. It would require people in bankruptcy to pay for credit counseling and stiffen some legal requirements for debtors in the bankruptcy process.

Eighteen Democrats and the Senate's lone independent joined Republicans in approving the legislation. It goes to the House next month and then to President Bush, who made it a priority after the GOP increased its majorities in the fall elections.

And then this...

<>Wall Street investment bankers won a provision in the bill that will enable the same firm to work for a company both before and after it files for bankruptcy. Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman William Donaldson opposed the move; he said it would further undermine investor confidence already shaken by the Enron, WorldCom and other corporate scandals.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. weren't there 14 dems who voted "aye" with the republicans? and NOT 1

republican who voted "nay?"

[Just Me]

51. Correct. Republicans are also responsible for proposing the bill,...

,...I do believe. :mad:

[flpoljunkie]

54. Correct, but the bill would have died w/o help of Dems in cloture vote.

[fujiyama]

56. Stabenaw?

:wtf:

Man, she's been really disappointing lately. First with the Condi vote. Now this.

Granted, I'd much rather NOT have someone like Spence Abraham in office.

Atleast we can count on Levin.

[AntiCoup2K4]

59. Corporatist Cantwell actually voted NO on this piece of shit??

Wow, I am actually shocked. :wow: