please Dean supporters, stop all of this nonsnse

[Zech Marquis]

I've seen more than a few postings about some so called revelations about Kerry, Clark, and Edwards. And they're being very, very nasty too. When I shared my growing interests in Kerry, Clark, and Edwards, one Dean supporter actually said,"we don't need you anyway, go back to the Greens!" :wow:

That's really sad..instead of regrouping and keeping ther heads, many of the Dean supporters here have taken the low road and want to "avenge" Monday night's results. I'm being very sincere when I ask you all of this--pleas, please stop the silliness. The more you throw mud of the other candidates, the worse you make yourselves and Dean look. And the independent voters aren't impressed by your behavior either.

[LuminousX]

Chicken Egg problem

[poskonig]

1. Dean supporters: We need you.

There has been a lot of vitriol by all sides over the last few weeks, but we really need to work together, no matter which Democrat wins.

[hellhathnofury]

5. JFK: It all started when Howard Dean hit me back.

Meet the Press!

[IndianaGreen]

12. You want my help? Here is what needs to be done...

Are all of these media revelations part of a well-planned and coordinated campaign to destroy each Democratic candidate one by one? If so, who is behind this campaign?

While I don't question the veracity of Jake Tapper's story about Edwards, I do question its timing just before the NH debate tomorrow. ABC News is moderating the debate, and the Tapper story is on the ABC New website. There is no such thing as coincidences.

[poskonig]

18. As I told others while I was supporting the Dean campaign

If one blames their problems on the media, they've already lost.

Your theory is a paradox. Realistically, if the media chooses are candidates, then we can never win. While if we win, this proves the media doesn't chose the candidates.

[IndianaGreen]

45. The media chooses that which will drive ratings up

Come November, the media will be more loyal to its corporate owners and destroy the Democratic nominee, whoever he is.

[Walt Starr]

15. Not gonna do it

Wouldn't be prudent.

[poskonig]

24. Yes you are.

You even said so at deanunderground.net. ;-)

[Walt Starr]

28. Link please

I don't know what you're talking about.

[poskonig]

30. Of course not.

:*

[Walt Starr]

38. Didn't think so

:puffpiece:

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass_Liberal]

35. I totally agree

I for one think all the Dems have a good and positive vision, and we should talk about those more often than we talk about their negatives.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goodhue]

20. please

The Dean folks did as much bashing as anyone -- My way or the highway ad naseum. And making fun of folks who did not agree. Luckily the arrogant behavior comes from a minority of DU-Dean supporters and is certainly not representative of Dean supporters in the real world.

[Julien Sorel]

23. You come late to this party.

Dean and his supporters have been attacking everyone and everything for almost a solid year. Notice how little rancor there is between the Clark, Kerry, and Edwards people? That's because very few people in those camps behaved like jackasses to one another. Dean supporters started by ripping on Lieberman and his couple of supporters here, moved on to Kerry, and then started on Clark, as each one of these people were perceived as the 'frontrunner.' And the nature of the attacks! Kerry is Bush-lite who supported the war, and didn't have the guts to stand up to Bush. Kerry is a 'bonesman' who wanted to be Gore's VP so he could assassinate him and become president. Yep -- a supporter of Governor Howard Dean, MD, came up with that one, and at least one other supporter of Governor Howard Dean, MD, approved of the theory. Clark is a war criminal, a dupe of the military-industrial complex, a Republican, and a Republican operative -- a 'plant' from Karl Rove to 'spoil' the great candi-duh-cy of Governor Howard Dean, MD, who 'terrified' the Republicans. You missed out on the real fun days. There's no 'chicken-and-egg' about it -- Dean and his supporters are reaping what they sowed.

[goodhue]

27. What he said

plus don't forget their incessant sanctimonious harping on DK-supporters

[quaker bill]

57. Which race have you been watching?

The only reason that Kerry, Clark, and Edwards have been nice with each other is because up to recently none of them were going anywhere in the polls.

Did you see Clark's the "Kerry was a Lt. and I was a General" dig monday night?

Have you seen the story on the Edwards campaign attack manual CNN has obtained a copy of? It contained slams on everyone but DK. I wonder why he was neglected? (not)

Did you hear of the Osama / Dean ad?

Why the request for Kerry's tax records from the Clark camp? Could it be that little off-shore tax shelter bit, perhaps?

Every single one of them has been throwing punches. Now that the race is more even the battling is on several fronts. True colors will soon be seen. Get ready to rumble.

[spooky3]

3. Well said. I've long said Dean is my #2, and the behavior of

a minority of Dean supporters here is increasingly making me wonder about Dean.

[Don_G]

4. Dean Or Not

Anybody but Dimbo.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. We're use to it.

:shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

7. Well, explain the following ABC News story about Edwards

There is another thread about this, and it should be discuss there, but the point is that these are stories in the mainstream media, it is not "Dean supporters" that are saying this.

Mr. Positive?
Presidential Hopeful Edwards Prides Himself On Not Going Negative — But Document Is Hardly Positive

By Jake Tapper

But ABCNEWS has obtained an official "John Edwards for President" precinct captain packet that includes myriad personal attacks for Edwards caucus-goers to make against his Democratic opponents, perhaps belying this claim.

The document — marked "CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEDGED" (sic) and "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION" and signed by the senator — encourages Edwards supporters to tell undecided caucus-attendees that former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean is a "Park Avenue elitist from New York City" and say Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts has "the stale record of a Washington insider" and "has been a part of the failed Washington politics for too long."

The Edwards document also slams Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and retired Gen. Wesley Clark, who opted not to participate in the Iowa caucus, for trying to take "shortcuts to the nomination." The document adds: "Strong, national candidates do not skip states."

Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri is called "a good man" who led Congressional Democrats to lose control of the House of Representatives. "We can't afford another losing national campaign," the document says.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/US/edwards_positive_040121.html

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hellhathnofury]

17. Nothing wrong with questioning Edwards on that.

Play on!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. Here come the tears.

:cry:

[IndianaGreen]

21. You should consider the answer I gave here...

Are all of these media revelations part of a well-planned and coordinated campaign to destroy each Democratic candidate one by one? If so, who is behind this campaign?

While I don't question the veracity of Jake Tapper's story about Edwards, I do question its timing just before the NH debate tomorrow. ABC News is moderating the debate, and the Tapper story is on the ABC New website. There is no such thing as coincidences.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=160487#160570

[quaker bill]

61. It is also on CNN

The truth is the truth. If you don't want people to publish the stuff, don't write it and even more, don't sign it.

[Leilani]

70. Doesn't FOX have the debate?

[overground1]

31. posting news from ABC and CNN is now "meanspirited"?

What should we talk about instead?
Some hollow feel-good fluff pieces on Edwards and Kerry?
It seems like you are setting the agenda here.

[JaneQPublic]

8. Was it "nonsense" when Dean was the target of the vitriol? (nt)

[JVS]

51. No it wasn't. Carry on!

[freetempe]

9. So smearing Dean the past few weeks was ok...

but now that Dean supporters are fighting back its time to chill? Give me a break.

[MrPeepers]

37. This is going nowhere.

Well, you pushed us, now we're going to push you, so you'll push us back... It's pointless! "Now that Dean supporters are fighting back..." What is that? They've been "fighting back" for months, and it's time to stop. There's been a lot of smearing going on both ways, but no one has any right to complain about getting smeared if they're doing plenty of smearing themselves. Let's just ALL give this a break, and discuss something MEANINGFUL.

-Peepers

[IndianaGreen]

48. Discuss something meaningful? turn to CNN right now

GITMO lawyer, a Marine MAJ Michael Mori speaks out.

[JVS]

54. You just want to quit now because you see yourself as ahead

[overground1]

59. exactly, and Kerry won't last a week of what Dean took for MONTHS

Kerry supporters are about to get a taste of what Dean supporters have been getting from all sides, and I can already tell they don't have the thick-skin for it.
:evilgrin:

[JVS]

63. It's going to be grand!

[mandyky]

10. Dean supporters stop this, eh?

How many Dean scream speech threads have there been? Dean supporters are getting testy, and unless one chooses to be blind, deaf, and dumb - they'd at least try to understand.

Oddly enough we have not seen other candidate supporters being so insensitive to Gephardt supporters.

[overground1]

11. let me get this straight, the piling-on is ok for the anti-Deans to do

with all the "revelations" about Dean, but discussing the potential problems and weaknesses of the other candidates is now off limits for Dean supporters?

[Zech Marquis]

16. the Dean supporters have been especially nasty

I drew the line when one did that to ME :grr:

[overground1]

22. ok, it sounds PERSONAL between you and one other forum memeber

Please don't lash out against ALL Dean supporters over an isolated personal experience.

[Zech Marquis]

34. I had that person's posting deleted

of course not every Dean supporter is like this, but a growing number aren't being mature aboutt their situation at ALL. It's a real turn off.

[overground1]

46. So deleting 1 post wasn't enough? You now want to silence all Dean peeps?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[overground1]

56. there you go again, dictating what is acceptable from Dean supporters

I've got your number.

[Paragon]

14. Oh, it's OUR fault.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[overground1]

and you think this is an example of being "constructive"?

:eyes:

[Walt Starr]

25. Do you honestly want me to believe

that all of those Dean Scream threads, all of the pile-on, all of the repeated baloney, all of the negative anti-Dean garbage on DU was because some Dean supporters started the threads?

I'm sorry, but the shoe is now on the other foot and I am going to RELISH EVERY LAST SLAM ON THE OTHERS!!!

:evilgrin:

[Egnever]

26. LOL

Fun being the frontruner no?

[MrPeepers]

29. Oh, come ON people.

This is getting just terrible. I completely agree with you, Zech. This is getting extremely immature. Don't start with this "Oh, you hit us, we're going to hit you back," nonsense! Turn the other cheek! This is making me furious. Where were the attacks before Iowa? Stop sitting there and calling Sen. Kerry a media whore or whatever you want to call him because it's an excuse for your own loss. I had, until two or three weeks prior to Iowa, expected a Dean victory. A month ago, I posted that I understood that Dean was way out front, and the odds of Kerry winning the nomination looked slim, so the Dean supporters out there could count on my support with their if Dean got the nomination. Well, now most of what I see is "Dean or green!" or something about how all the other candidates are Bush lite weakling media whoring sellouts who are completely useless. Well, those Bush lite weaking media whoring sellouts are the same Bush lite weakling media whoring sellouts who are going to boot George W. Bush out of the White House, and it's time to show a little respect. Like it or not, they're leaders of our party, and champions of our ideals, and you damn well ought to respect their status as such. Don't get into this childish name calling because your guy didn't take Iowa. Come to the realization that the Bush Administration sees Kerry's weakest point as his exceedingly liberal record in the Senate. Come to the realization that, whatever you may say, none of these candidates is George W. Bush, none of them are Bush lite (Possible exception being Sen. Lieberman), and all of them are out there and seeking the same thing WE are, the end of the Bush Administration. Pull yourselves together, people. Let's see a little common decency.

-Peepers

[IndianaGreen]

32. "champions of our ideals"?

I would not refer to someone that voted for PATRIOT Act and for IWR as a champion of our ideals.

[overground1]

39. hush, we're supposed to fall in line behind Kerry now that he won a state

[MrPeepers]

44. I'd like to thank you

for that substantive and intelligent commentary. No, you're not supposed to fall in line behind Kerry. You support your candidate, if they don't win, you do the best you can to support who does. You don't get mad because you lost and run off to a third party or decline to vote. You don't get mad because they lost a state and start throwing as much mud as you can. You're supposed to act decent, civil, and positive. That, at least, seems to be too much to ask every now and again. Will SOMEONE prove me wrong, please?

-Peepers

[Walt Starr]

58. Kerry is not worthy of my vote

and never will be.

[MrPeepers]

62. Well

That's a damn arrogant thing to say. Why not, exactly?

-Peepers

[Walt Starr]

69. Three letters

I
W
R

Nobody who voted for that piece of garbage is worthy of my vote.

[MrPeepers]

73. The reason

that piece of garbage included the lines sending the President to the UN, instead of just saying "Congress is with you," is Sen. John Kerry's actions. He traded his vote for those lines. It's to Kerry's credit that we spent as much time in the UN as we did! If Bush had had it his way, we'd have just skipped that whole part! This is not a black and white issue, don't paint it as one.

-Peepers

[MrPeepers]

52. Well, both of those

are valid complaints, I admit. I think there are valid arguments for why Kerry voted the way he did on them, as well. But what about the Environment? Health Care? Campaign Finance Reform? Gun Control? Gay Rights? Foreign Policy? Education? I think two points, on which not nearly everyone agrees, are enough to rule out an entire career as Bush-lite.

-Peepers

[JVS]

65. Those two issues are very important

and there is no shortage of fine Democratic candidates other than Kerry who are good on the other issues.

[MrPeepers]

78. Which is exactly the point.

I support Kerry because I think his is the best candidacy, but the others are all strong as well. That's why we shouldn't be spending this time throwing mud at each other.

-Peepers

[JVS]

79. I reject Kerry because others are as strong on the non-war issues...

and when it comes to IRW and patriot act others are far superior, or at the very least consistent. Lieberman may be the party scowl, but at least he didn't insult everyone's intelligence by trying to justify his IRW vote for a whole year.

[IndianaGreen]

67. I agree with you, Peepers, that Kerry's record is a good record

It seems to me that everything we are complaining about Kerry took place after 9/11.

[MrPeepers]

72. Yet the question is not

what did he do after 9/11, but what WILL he do if he assumes the Presidency? Would Kerry have invaded Iraq as President Bush did? Would Kerry compose a Patriot Act? No. I think we can all agree that he would NEVER have done those things. That's what really matters. He doesn't believe in unilateral invasion of other countries, nor does he believe in the violation of civil rights constituted by the Patriot Act. Those are extraneous examples. There's a long history of explanation of the IWR vote, and as for the Patriot Act, the whole thing was engineered to be damn near impossible to vote nay on. I don't think that ruins a Kerry candidacy in the slightest.

-Peepers

[IndianaGreen]

81. Right now we are discussing supporting Lieberman

With Joe we know what we get. There is no waffling on the issues. Joe is pro-choice and pro-gay rights. Joe can out preach Bush on morality. If the rightwing attacks our Joe, we will retaliate by accusing them of being anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.

I feel the power of AIPAC running through my veins! Aaaaarrrggghhhh!

:crazy:

And this is only January...

[overground1]

33. It's easy for a Kerry supporter to say "turn the other cheek" now

that you're on top and you've already done the damage you needed to do to Dean.

[MrPeepers]

40. And how long...

was Dean on top? Kerry supporters, Clark supporters, Kucinich supporters, Edwards supporters, they all took flak from Dean people. It was easy for a Dean supporter to say "Turn the other cheek," then. It doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. What of the damage Dean did to everyone else early on? This isn't a one sided game, here.

-Peepers

[overground1]

43. how very egalitarian of you n/t

[Zech Marquis]

49. i haven't been bashing any candidate

except for Lieberman, and I was rightly warned about it too. What did I, Zech Marquis, do to Howard Dean? I didn't tell him to do his Hulk Hogan routine the other night. Show me what I did to Dean and I'll accept my responsibility.

But you won't, would you?

[overground1]

55. you want to be judged as an individual but judge all Dean peeps as a group

You can't have it both ways, sorry.

[Zinnola]

42. Mr. Peepers

First of all this race is far from over. I am not even thinking of conceding my support to Dean at this juncture. I have not attacked any other supporters nor their candidates, but as a Dean supporter we and Dean himself have been torn to shreds by some supporters of the Kerry and Clark campaigns. I mean there are about 30 plus threads on the Dean scream speech. That is lame and to me a non issue.

I am too ticked off by these antics to even begin thinking about who I would support should Dean not win.

[MrPeepers]

47. I understand that the race is far from over.

I'm not suggesting that anyone concede support. I just don't think support should consist of throwing mud at the OTHER candidates. How many times have people screamed about Skull and Bones with Kerry? How many times have people yelled that Clark is a Republican? The Dean speech was front page news, it was all over the media, it was a huge mistake for Dean, whether people want to accept that or not. It's a big issue. If Kerry had done it, you'd see the same thing. Don't let the supporters of a candidate turn you off to the candidate themselves. I've tried very very hard not to let the negative Dean supporters hurt my image of Dean. When Kerry was asked what he thought of Dean's speech, he responded that it was not his place to comment.

-Peepers

[JVS]

60. Hahaha

:nopity:

[MoonRiver]

36. I have resigned myself to this mentality.

Dean is going nowhere and the reason is his nastiness and obsession with winning at all costs. I don't like him. :thumbsdown:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

66. I don't like Clark

I guess we cancel each other out :hi:

[Jerseycoa]

64. They want Kerry, Clark, and Edwards supporters to

go back to the Greens?

That's confusing.

:beer:

[mopinko]

68. can't we all just get along?

[mitchum]

71. Let them roll on to further glory

But seriously, they have every right to be as passionate as they want to be. It is the nature of the primary season. However, am troubled by so much of the insistence on Dean or no one. I am not worried for the sake of the Democratic party, but for the sake of the country. Christ, I have to live here.

[Walt Starr]

74. Welcome to politics

No foul, no harm.

[JVS]

75. Don't forget, "It makes the candidate stronger."

:D

[Walt Starr]

76. Oh, and "thicken your skin"

:evilgrin:

[JVS]

77. and "puts hair on your chest"

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

83. Locking.

We feel this discussion has run it's course.

Thanks,
DU Moderators