NY Republicans looking to "Swift Vet" Hillary in 2006

[justiceischeap]

I know there are mixed feelings about Hillary here on DU but when doing research on Gannon stuff, I came across this post on salon. Apparently the repugs liked how the Swift Vet campaign worked and plan on applying it early...

Did Hillary lie about her Purple Heart?

We reported earlier today about Hillary Clinton's high approval ratings among voters in New York. Somebody's fixing to do something about them. New York magazine reports on Republican plans to do to Hillary Clinton what the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth did to John Kerry:

"Arthur Finkelstein, the political guru who helped create George Pataki, now wants to Swift Boat-ize Hillary Clinton," the magazine says. "Senior New York Republicans say he’s creating a political action committee called 'Stop Her Now'—all you need is the pronoun with this crowd, apparently—which will attempt to raise more than $10 million nationwide to use against Her during Her 2006 reelection campaign. The PAC will 'bloody her up long before her presidential run,' vows a top state Republican, adding the model is indeed the Swift Boat Vets."

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yhyzZk9QeT0J:www.salon.com/politics/war_room/+Bobby+Eberle+Swift+Boat&hl=en&start=24&client=firefox-a


Sounds like they're scared of her.

[joeybee12]

1. Why will they do this? Because they can get away with this!

They'll keep pulling crap like this as long as the Dems let them, and the kerry campaign let them. I think--at least--Hilary has the good sense to strike back, and strike back hard.

[marcologico]

4. The Kerry campaign didn't "let" them.

In fact they fought back hard all summer. They just didn't waste our money on them. And you know what? I'm glad they didn't, because it wouldn't have made the least bit of difference. People will believe what they want to, especially if they see it in print or TV.

p.s. go to any WalMart and you'll still see that stupid SBVT book on prominent display.

[sendero]

10. BULL SHIT...

.. I watched the campaign. KERRY LET THEM. Kerry did too little way too late to counter the SBV crap.

What would you expect a man to do if someone basically called him an out and out fraud? Most Americans would expect him to be MAJORLY PISSED OFF and to PASSIONATELY DENOUNCE the ads. Kerry couldn't passionately denounce nuclear war. It just is not in him, and he will never rise above his current station because of that simple fact.

[marcologico]

12. As I was saying, people will believe what they want to. n/t

[sendero]

13. I believe ..

... what I saw. Damn near NOTHING.

[marcologico]

15. I heard Kerry calling it bullshit THE DAY AFTER IT HIT THE AIRWAVES.

I read article after article reporting one eyewitness or another calling it bullshit.

Maybe Kerry could have run his "band of brothers" commercial in all the same TV markets 24/7, and that would have helped, but the fact is it was summer and he didn't have the money. He got his federal funds in late August.

That's politics, deal with it.

[babylonsister]

18. No, Kerry listened to the wrong advice IMO.

Lessons hopefully learned all around for the future for any dem that runs. Sadly, you have to get as ugly and ruthless as the repugs.

[sendero]

21. How did Clinton win?

He answered every one of these types of charges in 24 hours and with unequivocal denials. This lesson has already been learned, it's just that some candidates want to learn it over and over.

Kerry should have made a film where he played the ad chunk by chunk and said "that is not true, this is what happened", over and over.

He could have killed that nonsense and good. When someone calls you a mother fucker and you don't really deny it, every one thinks you are a mother fucker. It is really that damn simple.

[marcologico]

24. Played it where? On the Sinclair network maybe?

He'd either have to shell out tens of millions for an hour of "he-said she-said" denials (and you can guess how the MSM would laugh at that one) or deny it personally and in print, which he did all summer.

And no, he didn't insult any black singers or rush home to personally execute any mentally retarded black convicts. Do you really think he should have?

[sendero]

28. I see you get it..

... about as much as Kerry does.

You simply cannot admit that Kerry got no air-time other than the debates (except for what he paid for) and lots of other people do get air time. The networks ran the SBV ads why? Because they are all under the control of a RW svengali? No. Because true or not they make good TV. The created controversy and drama which is all Americans care about, their eyes glaze over at the discussion of issues because they basically don't believe either side.

Boring people with a complete inability to get excited about anything, who make endless "nuanced" points about this and that will NEVER connect with Americans as they are today, nor win any big elections.

Kerry could have created a rebuttal piece as dramatic and controversial as the SBV ads and it would have gotten free airplay.

But instead, he stands at the podium saying "that's not true" and wonders why nobody gives a shit.

Dems have a limited amount of time to deal with the media problem, and it isn't all about RW control it is about the message and how you get it out. The Repugs got their message out. That message was "Kerry is no war hero". If you don't think it was effective, think again. If you don't think we have to counter each and every one of those attacks, think again.

[marcologico]

30. Did you ever see Kerry's "band of brothers" TV ad?

I didn't, because I don't live in a swing state, but I've heard from people who saw it (including people here) that it's as riveting and dramatic as you could want.

Did anybody play it for free? No. Would they give Kerry free airtime in a million years? No. He could make an SBVT denial better than the Sound of Music and he'd still have to pay top dollar to get it on the air. Bush wouldn't, and it's not because he's Julie Andrews, either.

[Obviousman]

22. Bob Shrum told kerry not to even address the problem

It destroyed him because they let the problem grow so huge, you had delegates at the RNC wearing band-aids mocking a vietnam vet. Then, John Oneil was practically a co-host on every single major cable show because kerry and shrum were too fucking scared to fight back and alienate "swing voters"

[marcologico]

27. Good think Kerry didn't take his advice, because he addressed it plenty.

Just because he didn't interrupt prime-time with a week of "specials" doesn't mean he didn't address it. If you heard, read or saw ANY interviews Kerry gave over the summer (and he gave several per day) you heard him address it.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. Kerry responded but he didn't FIGHT BACK

Politics is war and frankly Shrub's AWOL and cocaine use was fair game.

[marcologico]

34. I know, it seemed that way to me too, but like I said in #15, money was an

issue and Kerry's campaign didn't have the bucks for a full-on TV ad campaign in the summer, rich wife or not. SBVT was a 527 bankrolled by billionaire Texans, and Kerry didn't have anything set up to fight back with. Maybe that was mistake but he had three months between the primaries and the nomination to put a national campaign together. Bush had four years. I say cut the guy some slack.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. George Soros had pleanty of money to spend

It's just that Kerry told moveon.org to stop airing the AWOL ad. The problem is that it was a GOOD ad. Soros and Kerry's wife could've poured millions into an attack machine on * during those months, but Kerry didn't like negative ads.

My problem with Kerry is that he wouldn't play by their "antying goes" standard that they set when they compared Max Cleland to Saddam Hussein in 2002. They very clearly set the bar and he should've played by THEIR rules. Had he done so, he would probably be in the white house.

[marcologico]

36. Maybe, but I doubt it. You saw what they did to Dan Rather.

If the debates had been all about AWOL-gate or MoveOn-gate Bush would have cleaned up and Kerry would have won Massachusetts, possibly.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Memo-gate was completely different than running smear ads

Memo-gate was an independent journalist who arguably had more credability with the American people than any other journalist on television, claiming that he had PROOF that Bush was AWOL from the national guard when really he did not.

Smear ads, political campaigns, and 527's aren't held to the same standards that Dan Rather is.

BTW, even when a claim in an ad is debunked, it doesn't mean that people suddenly believe that the ad is bogus.

[marcologico]

40. Not really. MoveOn would get challenged just like Rather.

And if they got "caught" using bogus or allegedly bogus sources (basically, anything) what do you think that would have done to Kerry's campaign?

[Hippo_Tron]

41. SWBVT were debunked in the Wall Street Journal

Rassumen was interviewed and said that they were full of shit. Doesn't mean that the ads didn't have an effect.

[marcologico]

42. Kerry didn't control the FCC and the media CEOs weren't rooting for him.

Kerry couldn't stop the ads, or the stories about the ads, and he couldn't have outsmeared them if he'd tried. All he could do is what he did, run a clean campaign, and it very nearly worked.

[marcologico]

43. p.s. Rove is not going to tear the throat out of the WSJ.

[hector459]

37. This is precisely why "Gannongate" should not go away. It needs to spread

We just damn give up to easily. If I were Hillary I would continue to go about my duties serving the people of NY. If they vote her out and if the country doesn't want her for President (not that she has said she is even interested in running for Pres) then it their loss.

Looke what the country got when they voted against McGovern. Look what they got when they voted against Carter. Look what they got when they turned their backs on Gore. And now look what they get when they voted against Kerry. The record is very clear. They get the government they vote for and in the end, the government they deserve.

[marcologico]

2. Well they're right about one thing:

Hillary did NOT spend Christmas 1968 in Cambodia.

p.s. John O'Neill said so on TV so it must be true.

[blondeatlast]

3. Isn't she more likely to go for governor anyway?

She's a real threat to Giuliani, which threatens in turn his Oval Office ambitions.

Let 'em show their hands early, makes it easier to go on the offensive with their weaknesses..

like, they got nuthin'.

[count_alucard]

5. wow Republicans trying to eat one of their own?

Hilary, like her husband, is a closeted Republican, her voting record proves it.

She voted for the war, voted to change bankruptcy laws, etc etc. She's there to protect the right-wing special interests that financed her campaign.

I truly don't CARE about what happens to her in 2006, and neither should anyone who calls themselves progressives.

[KittyWampus]

7. If You Think Senator Clinton Is Republican You Are Misinformed Or

purposely spewing disinformation.

I am a Progressive and your assertion that I need to tow YOUR infantile, clueless line is totally against everything MY party stands for.

[count_alucard]

9. really? what does your party stand for?

Kissing Bush's ass at every opportunity?? Does it stand for enabling Bush to kill women and children in the Middle East? For letting Bush get away with allowing 9/11? For letting Bush get away with cutting taxes for the rich during his first 4 years??

Because that's what she and 90% of Democrats stand for. Go get informed.

[KittyWampus]

20. My Party Is The BIG Tent... You Know The One For GROWN UPS

who don't think everything revolves around THEM.

[count_alucard]

29. big tent of Bush enablers, you mean.

as expected, you didn't respond to one single question of mine.

Because if you did honestly, your beliefs would be shaken.

[borg5575]

31. Excactly

The last thing we need is Hillary in the White House.

People ask, "Why did the fascists allow Clinton to be elected? Why didn't they steal his two elections too like they have stolen so many others including the 1988, 2000, and 2004 elections?

The reason is they didn't have to. Bill Clinton is one of their own. That's why Bill Clinton asserts that Bush won the 2004 election "fair and square." He's in on it too. And so is Hillary.

[babylonsister]

19. Right on, CS! nt

[BlueManDude]

14. Absurd statement.

[count_alucard]

45. not as absurd apparently as YOUR big tent

Democratic Party supporting the nomination of well-known torturer Gonzalez and war criminal liar Condi Rice.

Dems became NOTHING but accessories to Bush crimes.

[iwantmycountryback]

23. Sad

She may be a bit too moderate for me at times but calling her a Republican is asinine. She's going to kick the ass of whoever runs against her anyway, as she's still pretty popular upstate. And she can obviously take some advice from Schumer, who won all but 1 county in the state of New York.

[robbedvoter]

6. Hillary has been "Arkansas project"ed before Sfift Boat existed.

it's what they do in a fascist regime:


14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a
complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns
against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of
legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,
and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their
judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

[KharmaTrain]

8. So What Else Is New? This Brings In GOOP $$$$

Need a quick $1,000 from some wingnut buddy? Just say "Hillary". Need to get your PAC or wingnut website or coven noticed? Just say "Hillary". And if that doesn't work, there's "Billary"...that's sure to make their balls puff up.

The poll results in New York this week has the monkeys screetching from the trees...and it also helps to divert attention from the new 9/11 revelations, "Gannongate" and the House & Senate gutting decades of middle-class protections. It just drives these goons wild that she scored so high...especially against St. Rudy. The "Hillarybeast" is growing stronger...their ero-sadistic fantasies are coming real.

Finkelstein's been after Hillary for years...he worked with the Travelgate and Whitewater folks...and goes back to the Floyd Brown dirty tricks school. I wouldn't be surprised if in our "Gannongate" travels, we find his name popping up.

He's another ones of these boiler room hacks who come out during the elections and delight local voters with push polls, jamming phone lines, spreading malicious rumors and just general fun. In a close race or in a red state, this would be need to worry. In New York's case, it's the GOOP knowing they're about to lose the Governorship and be completely shut out of the state.

From what I read, Hillary's enjoying the Senate, and I think she's done well...and serves the party and our causes far better in that position than in any other right now. If you want to help our candidates...especially women, I strongly suggest a donation to Emily's List.

[Mark E. Smith]

11. Hillary's Approval #s Are Sky High In NY

Let them squander their money. Hell, they'll be lucky if they can even find someone to run against her.

[Toots]

17. Alan Keyes is available I hear.

He is the best they could find to represent them in Il. So I suspect he is the best they can find for New York as well.

[Mend]

16. Is there anything left to attack her on

that we haven't heard about endlessly from 1992 to 2000? Any new gossip about the white house travel office, whitewater, chocolate chip cookies? I do believe they have shot their wad many times over.

[Clark2008]

25. Doesn't matter.

The real point should be this: why put forth a moderate who is perceived as an ultra-liberal rather than a liberal who is perceived as a moderate?
Then you get the swing voters.

[Ashamed_American]

26. I'm not sure exactly what else they can come up with.

If they can't find anything then they'll just make it up. But that is politics I guess. Anywho, let them spend away. I think New York will pass her through regardless of what they can come up with. At least Dem's can point to the bogus Swift Boat as a defense.


www.BlackEyedSundays.com

[justiceischeap]

33. I posted this more to point out

The Repugs have found a new tactic and are deciding to run with it. Plus they're publicly announcing they're doing so. Hence, they have announced their intention to publicly lie about and smear a candidate. Do you really think it will stop at Hillary?

This wasn't posted to start a thread where folks argue whether you like her or not, they see her as a threat. That means, whether you like her or not, whether she's a DINO or not, this doesn't just effect Hillary, this effects any potential candidate that looks to have any kind of popularity.

Agreed, there is probably nothing more that can be dug up on Hillary. Agreed, it may be used to raise funds for a fledgling PAC. However, we need to look at the bigger picture folks, this is bad news. This can effect other candidates in '06 / '08.

edited for typo

[Cha]

38. They need to be stopped NOW!

They didn't throw enough at hillary in 2000? That fat little two-timin' timmy russert was all bought and paid for in the debate with lazio!

There was something about Hassidic Jews and campaign donations and she still whipped lazio's butt!

[elshiva]

44. No surprises here.

Republicans hate, hate, hate Hillary! Haven't you heard Jesse Helms recent Clinton conspiracy spewings? Some DUers may hate on her for being a DINO, but they have nothing on the Rethug hate machine.

[agincourt]

46. That's what I like about her,

The pecker-faced pigs have been trying to shitboat her since 1992. I think the lady has teflon, an intangible that Kerry didn't have enough of.

[autorank]

47. The Long Shoremen's Union should welcome Swift Vets to NYC!

Take them on a tour of the docks and such, give them a weekend they'll never forget, and send them on their way.

You'd think getting away with a scam like this would cause these slime to lay low but NOOO, they have to do it again.

As Mayor Lindsay used to say, "New York is a Fun City!"

[NVMojo]

48. it's time to work on our smear jobs .....