Jonah Goldberg's Offers A Bet To Professor Juan Cole...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I am reading the internet battle between Professor Juan Cole and Jonah Goldberg of The National Review... It's great stuff: full of the polemics which I love...


Any way, what do you guys think of Goldberg's bet... I do find it interesting...


"Anyway, I do think my judgment is superior to his when it comes to the big picture. So, I have an idea: Since he doesn't want to debate anything except his own brilliance, let's make a bet. I predict that Iraq won't have a civil war, that it will have a viable constitution, and that a majority of Iraqis and Americans will, in two years time, agree that the war was worth it. I'll bet $1,000 (which I can hardly spare right now). "

[ewagner]

1. Sucker bet IMO

Define "Civil War".

Define "Viable Constitution"

A majority of Americans by whose standard/poll?

[Cha]

11. That is a "sucker bet" bet no matter what

America's fascist media will report that "it was worth it"!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I'm Not Pussying Out...

I'll put $100.00 of the money up if we can come to a meeting of the minds on the terms...



My model is the Lebanese Civil War which also was fueled by religious differences...

[nickinSTL]

2. I think...

"Iraq won't have a civil war"

ok, it'll have increasing 'insurgent violence', but if no one calls it a civil war, is it?

"it will have a viable constitution"

Hmm, in 2 years, will we know if the constitution (probably written by the Bush Administration) is viable?

"a majority of Iraqis and Americans will, in two years time, agree that the war was worth it"

As measured by who? the MSM? Yeah, I believe what they tell me...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Think We Could Operationalize Our Terms

And Come Up With A Poll Of Polls....

[KittyWampus]

3. The War Was "Worth" It? It Was Illegal & Sold Under False Pretenses

so "worth it" is meaningless and a red herring.

[bemildred]

4. Call and raise the bet to say, $10,000.

First make sure ALL those things must occur for Jonah (great
name for him, eh?) to win. Then make sure there is a verification
procedure for the terms "viable constitution" and "majority of Iraqis and Americans".

[No Exit]

5. Sorry Jonah, a majority of Americans will only think it was "worth it"

if your fat ass had been over in Iraq, dodging bombs and riding around in an unarmored tin can.

Who decides whose death is "worth it" for this thinly-veiled imperialism and plunder? Not you, Jonah. You've been swallowed by the whale-sized fraud that IS "neoconservatism".

[cestpaspossible]

6. How can I get a piece of this action?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Think It's A Fair Bet If We Can Operationalize Our Terms And Come Up

With A Poll Of Polls...


He's basically saying as a result of the war Iraq will be a functioning liberal democracy as Japan and West Germany became after WW2...


I think he's so wrong and can be proven wrong without quibbling about the terms...


In the fullness of time we will know if Iraq becomes a liberal democracy or becomes a mess like Yugoslavia after the death of Tito...

[dave29]

9. Jonah would rather gamble than seriously debate

so, he's already lost the debate, and reinforced his losing position.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I Think DU Should Take Him Up On His Offer

If We Can Come To A Meeting Of The Minds About What The Terms Mean...

I'll put up $100.00 now because I think Iraq will be a mess...

[robbedvoter]

12. Hey, Jonah! Iraq did have a great constitution & no civil war in 2003

The only problem in their constitution was not allowing piratization of their oil.
What did we accomplish again?
Notice the lowering of the bar - no longer "democracy" or "liberty" are mentioned. No longer our "victory".
Polls approval would do - it's easier to create.