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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:06 PM
Original message
I'm conflicted about Dean
I still like Dean the most after Kucinich because I think Dean's style would be good for Washington. But I'm really concerned about how electable he is. I still think he can be elected, but although I didn't get turned off by the speech, I think Dean could easily be burned out after Republican attacks. Also, the language used by the media to describe Dean has been disturbing. I think Kerry and Edwards are more electable, and I like both. I would like comments on whether I should change from Dean to Kerry or Edwards.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hi speech was excellent. Here is the link.
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 12:09 PM by creativelcro
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. The media has given up on Dean. He will now be used to make the
primaries look like a carnival. Look at yesterday's media coverage: primal scream all day, Bush looking presidential all night. Nice contrast.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It does seem that way
And after the media always makes Bush look much better than he was, I'm wondering if they really like Kerry, or if they would turn on him, too.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:22 PM
Original message
They have three top contenders who can beat Bush now. The game is to
give up on influencing the primaries and start focussing on building up Bush. That's what happened last night.
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lurk_no_more Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. I think you're right
yesterday I heard more than one talk radio host say about dean's speech that with a guy like this as the front runner how can anyone take any of the candidates seriously?

I think what dean did may have hurt us all.


And then there were none!
JAFO

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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Electability
You support Kucinich and you worry about Dean's electability? Do what you think is best. If you really think it is more important to have a bland centrist who won't upset the system or invigorate the fringe, than choose one of them (Kerry, Edwards are fine choices.) If you think it is equally important to give a tug to the left as well as kick Bush out of office, explore those choices.

Electability is a meaningless term, because if we knew what exactly was 'electable' we wouldn't need this process.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. To me, Kucinich is a lot different than all of them
I do see your point about following my heart, though.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. You don't need to make a decision now
there's plenty of time. :)
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, it is hard to deny, after the results in Iowa and the way
the media reported Dean's speech, that fears about Dean's electability are well-founded. Dean has energized some great people but just doesn't seem to have the personality to translate that into broader-based support.
If you are a Kucinich supporter, I think you have an easy choice between Kerry and Edwards. Go to http://www.vote-smart.org and compare the records of the two and your choice will be clear.

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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Originally I was for Kerry
When I saw other candidates running better campaigns and got to know the candidates, I went to Kucinich with Dean being my fave among the front-runners. Based on his views, I could pretty easily go back to Kerry.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. About switching
If you believe in your candidate, stick with him until the end. That's what I plan to do with Wes Clark. When we (our campaign) get faced with setbacks (which we have and most probably will again b/c that seems inevitable in politics), I will work all the more harder. Then, if we do not win, I will at least know that I did everything I could.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. This is the best advice nt
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. My support for Dean is softer than it is for Kucinich
That's why I created the topic.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So, you are talking about switching your second choice? n/t
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes
Kucinich is my #1 and Dean is my favorite among the front-runners.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. However
I'll stay with Dean unless I see a convincing argument not to. There are a lot of smart DUers here, so I decided comments would be good. :-)
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. About Dean
If you are talking about being one of his supporters, he needs your support now as much as at any time in his campaign. If you believe in him, don't switch.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why the Media 'hates' him.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. I know I'm not alone in my disgust with the Washington establishment.
I'm tired of those who demand that we work within the political framework established by our enemies. I'm tired of those who deny that we have enemies--who insist that we merely have "disagreements." In our political world, this is no matter of mere "disagreement." The republic is quite literally at stake and we need a leader, a fighter who will say what needs to be said to rally all who can be united to throw those enemies out of power. That's the premise of my presidential endorsement.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. That "enemy" by the way, is the neo-cons and Bush.
I just wanted to clarify. It's not the entire establishment that's the enemy of our freedom.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yep
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 01:05 PM by mvd
And I think that Bush and his people believe we (meaning the Democrats in general) will go down easier than we will. I hope Dean comes back strong and makes it evident that they are wrong.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why are you a Kucinich supporter?
I ask this not to single you out or put you on the spot, but let me take a guess. You are sick and tired of politics as usual and a party that has quite literally become Bush Lite. That's where I'm at myself. In just about any other election, under any other national circumstances, I probably would have supported Kucinich. But we both know Dennis can't win in the current climate. That being the case, I'm just curious why you would settle for the Bush Lite DLC'ers over Dean when he too is against this status quo which obviously is not working.

There's a reason why Dean is drawing a lot of support from the Left. They may not agree with him on everything, but they know the guy's for real. The DLC knows he's for real too, and so does Karl Rove. If I found out they were working together to bring him down, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Some of the "Stop Dean" websites have been traced to Bush contributors from the oil industry.

The status quo is scared to death of Howard Dean. Even though Kerry is the current frontrunner, the press continues the obsession with Dean. We know who the press works for. It's no coincidence. They aren't going after Kerry at all, and Edwards is getting favorable coverage.

I'm not going to tell you whom to support, but it doesn't seem logical to turn from an anti establishment candidate to one totally beholden to the DLC.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm closest to Kucinich on the issues
I hope Kerry wouldn't do everything the DLC says. I have respect for him. But yes, it's the passion that drives me to Dean. Now, with questions about Dean's electability, it's no wonder I'm looking over my position - but I am leaning towards staying with Dean.
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