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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 09:58 AM
Original message
You had damn well better start saving money now
because you won't have any Social Security when you retire after the *'s get through with it.

That's a fact folks!

Oh, and you may want to brush up on folk medicine because you won't have any helath care, either. They are going after employer provided insurance next.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Agree with you Walt
We'll be on our own and left with nothing. God, I am so despondent these days.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. wadd'ya mean? I heard it's solvent thru 2042
Someone is selling snake oil.
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Solvent assuming the government can pay the national debt.
Since social security money is invested in government debt (treasuries), the degree to which it is solvent is proportional to your faith that the US will be able to pay it's debts.

How much will we owe in 2018? Social security will be one of the creditors.


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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Please keep your snake oil to yourself. eom
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Not snake oil, just facts.
Besides, calling something "snake oil" is saying that a proposed solution is a fraud.

I proposed nothing. I merely stated the fact that social security money is currently invested in government treasury bonds (debt).

If you don't think the government's debt is a problem, then sure, social security is just fine.

Of course, you'd have to be living in some sort of alternate reality to believe the debt is not a problem.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Yep, and his name is George W. Bush
He's about to raid the Social Security coffers. There won't be a penny left after he gets through with it.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. And save in Euros
just in case....
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. Correct, Walt. Imperial Amerika is an ugly place, soon to get much uglier
as most Totalitarian Nations do over time.

You are absolutely correct.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Naaw. Stocks or Gold.
You'll be wiping your ass with ones in a decade.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. Save money? Who has money to save? nt
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. thank-you
isn't that the truth!
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Unemployed 57 Months Walt - What Money?
eom
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Like you could live on it now.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent advice.
We have paid off all debts, including the mortgage, are saving (desperately) every penney we can find, and buying a little extra non-perishibles (especially canned goods) every week. It's been difficult, but I forsee some bad times coming,and hope to be able to get by for a year or two, even when things get tough. Hope other far-sighted people are doing the same. I am tempted to say, "Heaven help us," but I don't expect any assistance from that direction at all.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. We'll see if he can even get any "reforms" through Congress
I'm not so sure Bush has the support he needs, especially in the Senate. It only takes a few repubs to cross over and stop the insanity. Snowe, Spector, Collins, McCain might be all we need to protect social security.
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KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. I have money saved
But I keep having to spend the capital just to pay our bills. I have to take care of my severely disabled child, plus protect the money so he won't starve after I'm gone. Under Clinton, my husband made a lot more money, we had a lot in the stck market, and I made good income from my CDs.

Now everything has gone up besides my husband's salary. Health insurance, medications, food, gas, haircuts, electricity, taxes...you name it. Supposedly we have over a hundred thousand in home equity, but I'll believe that when I see it. So many neighbors think they're rich and are using their homes as ATM machines, if they lose a paycheck or have to move when the air eases from the housing bubble, home prices could crash.

This health care accounts business is the worse yet. I just saw someone on TV saying that consumers who pay $15 for their yearly doctor's visit don't realize that the doctor is charging $150. Well, so what does that mean? If I get to put aside a few thousand in a tax-sheltered account I'll help the system and myself by phoning around to find a doctor who charges $145 instead of $150? When my child falls down and splits his head open, I'll need to get out the Yellow Pages and see who'll give the best deal on stiches?
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's not just Social Security...don't forget the "National Sales Tax"...
...if the "National Sales Tax" gets any juice, it's officially OVER for the "middle class."

RENT will be taxed.

VISITS TO YOUR DOCTOR / DENTIST will be taxed.

ALL goods AND SERVICES will be taxed.

John Linder's "proposed" 23% (on top of your local state sales tax) is a LIE. Any economist that's looked at this proposal has said that it would need to be 40-50%.

So let's assume it's 50%. Then, let's assume that you live where I do, and your local state sales tax is 8.25%, and you pay $1000 per month rent.

YOUR NEW RENT will be $1582.50.

Now, if you are MAKING MONEY and have a JOB, maybe you can handle that. But let's say you're out of work, and you're living off of your nest egg until you get back on your feet. That nest egg has ALREADY BEEN TAXED once, when you EARNED it, and under the current tax system, it will be taxed again at your local state rate when you spend it.

Under the new system, the government will be taking an additional 45-50% out of your funds that have ALREADY BEEN TAXED.

So if you initially were in a 33% tax bracket when you EARNED The money, by the time you spend it (under a "National Sales Tax"), YOU WILL PAY UP TO 91.25% TAX on your "nest egg."

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Actually, a National Sales tax replacing income tax would be the
death nail for America. It would take a 30% sales tax to make up for income tax, minimum.

I would support a 1% across the board National Sales tax where every cent collected becomes a direct payment on the principal of the national debt. I think most Americans would go for that.

But a national sales tax would be regressive and would create a black market barter society akin to the old Soviet Union.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I like the imagery of "death nail"
but methinks you meant "knell."

Otherwise, preach, bro. like you say.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It would be the knell in the coffin lid!
:evilgrin:
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Ishoutandscream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. yes, this scares me most of all
the national sales tax will be the death of us all. Lord help the lower and middle classes if this happens.
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AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. Boosh surprises me
I was sure he would go after the public school system before he messed with health insurance.

What a joke he is.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. He did.
With the unfunded NCLB and the rise of home schooling and christian schools, which will get govt funding through vouchers, the public school system is on the verge of collapse. Undoing everything he's done to it is going to take years.

Time to move on.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. This thread is freaking me out a bit, but I'm glad it was posted
we should all be aware that the future could and most likely will get very rocky indeed.

Perhaps we should all also be prepared to barter as they are doing in Argentina these days. At least those of us-like me-who live paycheck to paycheck and don't have alot of cash saved may at least still be able to put food on the table that way. :shrug:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C19947...

http://www.towardfreedom.com/mar04/nodesofchange.htm
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Melynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. I've been saving money for retirement
But I assumed that I would receive some money from S.S. Now, thanks to Bush I know that S.S. will be broke and out of business when I retire.

My S.S. money will be in the pocket of some sociopath who works as a Wall Street stockbroker. Thank you Mr. President. :mad:

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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. My voluntary simplicity boycott- I call it the Bush savings plan
lol, I'll need the money Im saving for my retirement.
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