The pubs have no one to win in '08

[DalvaThree]

Jeb will wait. A brother to brother Bush dynasty would be a tough sell. He won't want to run right on the heels of his brother.

Arnold won't have that amendment in time.

McCain is getting old, and his health is delicate. I don't think he'd be an effective candidate in '08. On top of that he's not very popular with the right wing base.

Frist is a cold fish. The guy lacks charisma and could not win a nationwide race. He would lose against a credible Dem candidate.

Allen is a pompous ass. He sounds good on the news shows but get him on the national campaign trail and he'd be groaningly bad and elitist. He won't win.

Rudy is just not presidential. He doesn't look right. He doesn't talk right. He's kinda funny looking and all he's got his 9/11 schtick.

Newt? Ha! Newt is DOA.

I don't know much about Romney, but from what I've seen he lacks the 'common touch'. I don't hear many people seriously touting him.

If the Dems put forth a credible candidate in '08 we will win.

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. Just one year a ago,

many DUers couldn't imagaine how any Democrat could lose to Bush. A lot can change in four years.

[rockymountaindem]

11. One year ago

nobody, including me, could imagine that any Democrat could even come close to beating Bush. I thought we'd lose for sure. I thought we'd win for a while there, but I never thought it was a lock. Never ever, fraud or no.

[borg5575]

52. You are exactly right.

A lot of what the original poster said is wishful thinking IMO. In 1996, who could have imagined that a cretin like GW could ever win the Oval Office? Yet two stolen elections later there he is.

Don't underestimate these thugs. They will be there in 2008 pulling all of the same dirty tricks and it's going to take a hell of a lot to get them out of there.

[Walt Starr]

2. Rice will be the nominee

She's already in with the PNAC crowd, is a ready puppet, and will win over huge numbers from the African American community.

[DalvaThree]

3. I doubt it

I don't think she wants to run. She has no experience running a campaign. And I don't think she'd be that good at it.

[Pepperbelly]

10. A black woman nominated for Prez by the gop?

Are we talking about the same gop?

[Bake]

14. No way. They'd lose their Southern bigot base.

And I'm a Southerner. The Republicans I know here would rather eat a dog turd than vote for a black woman FOR PRESIDENT. Never happen.

Bake

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[Clarkie1]

21. Rice is to the GOP what Clark is to the Democratic Party

Yet ideologically they are polar opposites.

Is either party smart enough to see it?

[AP]

24. You know how she sounds so terrible in F911 when she makes that comment

about the title of the report?

Well, that attitude and the idiocy of that moment is the sort of thing that will keep her from being president.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[pityfriend]

4. Here's what I'm hearing

Conservative friends are talking Rice/Juliani. I think more than just the 9/11 would appeal with the former mayor. In NY he's a saint and a lot of that has to do with how much crime dropped during his stint, which also dropped the national murder rate by a good chunk (it's funny how much that statistic is determined by Manhattan).

[DireStrike]

5. Which NY is this?

Most everyone I talk to here grudgingly admits he did some good things, but still hates his guts. I still remember people comparing him to a nazi when he was mayor. The daily show even did a bit where he blocked off some streets for a parade and the pattern formed a swastika.

[NYCGirl]

16. Most New Yorkers know that Giuliani is a fraud. Only the out of staters

like the creep.

[mattclearing]

46. You could say the same of Bush. n/t

[pityfriend]

48. I'm not talking about the intellectual elite of NY

I'm thinking the average Joe. When I was there in '99, some friends and I asked a guy working security if a certain section of town was safe to go down to late at night. His reply was, "It's all safe now. Giuliani cleaned everything up." This was a real-life minority guy, not someone who necessarily seeks out the inside scoop.

[NYCGirl]

50. Well, he certainly could have been from NJ, and there are some red pockets

in Queens ("Archie Bunker" country, you know) and the other boroughs, but most of NY is very blue.

Edited to add: Even though Giuliani managed to get elected, his reputation was spiraling downward for a long time until he latched on to 9/11.

[6th Borough]

47. Hey! We beat you out on murders and violent crimes every stinkin' year!

Don't take Miami for granted :P

[googly]

6. Under-estimate Romney at your own risk, he has everything

any one would want in a candidate for president. If he can
get elected in liberal mass, he is a threat. He
has great looks which will have the women drooling, he has
youth, experience as governor, and new ideas. That is a
dangerous combination for the opposition. Unless he has
skeletons, he will be a serious contender.

[merbex]

40. We are going to do everything we can here in Mass. to derail

Romney's 08 plans

Like defeating him in 06

[Justice]

41. Romney won in MA b/c he had no record and b/c

the voters like the split between the dem house and senate and the republican governor.

Romney had no record -- he had his successful life in private equity and the Olympics. He hasn't accomplished much as governor. He is hardly here. So it will be harder for him to run a national campaign b/c he doesn't have too many good stories to run on. When he ran for governor, he had a commercial from the mayor of Salt Lake (a democrat) saying what a good guy he was during the Olympics.

If he runs for governor, there will be lots of democrats from MA on commercials saying how he is never here in the state. He is always somewhere else. He also has not accomplished anything. He set out to boost the GOP presence in the legislature - made a big splash about it, and wound up losing seats, not gaining them.

Deval Patrick is talking about running for governor = someone that would give Democrats a new and interesting candidate. I think Romney may be in for the fight of his life.

[Jacobin]

7. I remember when they first trotted out George Bush*

Everyone thought it was a complete joke and that he didn't have a clue and couldn't possibly be elected president.

They were right.........but, .....

Never underestimate the power of owning the media. It can sell shit as shinola.

[Eric J in MN]

13. The corporate media makes it close, and the

Republicans owning the voting machines puts them over the top.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Obviousman]

8. Careful what you say, they still have to appoint a new VP

I doubt cheney will finish it out, and whoever they put in will be the annointed succesor

[Gyre]

9. You must be assuming

that the last two elections weren't stolen. I think we're in the endtimes of democracy in America. The proof will be a permanent republican tri-partite hegemony, with just enough dems to make good fodder for insults and plausible-deniability for institutionalized election fraud by the republican party.

Cheery vision ain't it?

Gyre

[JI7]

12. Allen sounds a lot like Bush which is why many think he will be it

your description of Allen is the true description of Bush.

[detroitguy]

15. I hear what you say about Jeb...

...But I have a sneaky suspicion that they are just shameless and brazen enough to think they can pull that one off. It's just a gut feeling.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi detroitguy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[detroitguy]

61. Thanks

Glad to be here

[moggie12]

17. My money is on Chuck Hagel.

The only problem (for him) is that he is one of the few non-nut Republicans still left, which means he probably can't get through the RW/envangelical-weighted primaries.

[zmdem]

25. Bingo

Hagel is solid. Sure he isn't a fundamentalist, but then neither is Bush. There is a difference between being being born again and being being a fundamentalist. Bush blurs the difference, Hagel can too. In any case, he can assume that the fundamentalsit crowd will generally prefer him to Hillary, Kerry, etc., even if they are not as enthusiastic for him as they were for Bush.

2008 is a long ways off, but Hagel would be strong candidate,

[BlueInRed]

26. And he owns voting machines to boot

ESS I believe is the company he is part owner of...

[zmdem]

28. Sorry, I don't buy into this

Kerry lost because he was a weak candidate and Rove exploited that masterfully. Republicans do win office sometimes because they make a stronger appeal to the electorate. Consider 1980, Carter vs. Reagan.

[BlueInRed]

30. Both can be true

It's not either/or. Strategy and practicality go hand in hand. What you talk about is election strategy. Voting technology security is practicality.

Perhaps you haven't read the materials from Avi Rubin (Johns Hopkins) or David Dill (Stanford) or the numerous other computer professionals who all say that voting machines are some of the least secure and easiest to hack technology around. People have been stuffing ballot boxes since voting began and it's not a stretch to think they'd find a way to stuff electronic ballot boxes.

[zmdem]

31. Fair enough

Frankly, I don't like electronic voting, at least when it doesn't produce a paper ballot. As to hacking, first, no electronic vote counting computer should have a network connection. Each should be a stand alone machine. The OS and software should be open source, so everyone can see how it works.

Lastly, they shouldn't be used. As an IT guy, computers are just too mysterious to the ordinary citizen. Old fashioned punch card and card sorter systems are well tested and easy for everyone to understand.

[BlueInRed]

32. Ah, I didn't realize you were IT

So you definitely understand the risks and you've probably even read those reports; sorry for assuming otherwise. I know I got concerned when people like Leo Laporte started talking about it too in the months before the election. :)

[buddysmellgood]

18. Jeb will be installed just like his brother was. Florida is a lock. Ohio

will as well. A spineless congress will fail to enact meaningful election reform and the scam will go on util people get angry.

[elsiesummers]

23. Unfortunately think you are correct. Jeb will run.

Unless the public turns on Bush for some reason (and with the press and congress on his side, don't see how this will happen), I think you are right about Jeb.

When they sent Jeb out as Tsunami man, the plan was made evident.

They will choose a hispanic veep if they can come up with one.

[BlueInRed]

19. Um...they've managed to "win" with Bush twice, with horrible

records in TX and nationwide. I think if Rove et al run the campaign, the nominee will be formidable as long as the trainers have him/her well trained.

I think the election will depend more on whether the Dems learn how to play offense again than on who the Republicans field. JIMO.

On Edit:
I realize he didn't actually "win" either election, but he did manage to get into the White House.

So, a revision to the above-- it will also depend on the voting machines!

[liberalpragmatist]

20. Hagel or McCain could win.

But I don't think they're bright enough to do that. Giuliani may start off okay but I think a lot of Americans may tire of him once they seem him in action.

My money's on Frist or George Allen who will easily be reelected in '06 - Mark Warner will sit out the race to run for President himself.

[zmdem]

27. McCain's time came and passed

He probably could have cleaned Gore's clock in 2000, but age and health argues against him in '08. Forget Guiliani, 9/11 will have been 7 years in the past. Frist is dull as dishwater, plus what has he ever done ?

At this point in time, Hagel looks like the best candidate for the Republican party. Of course, in 2000 McCain was the best candidate too.

[TheWatcher]

22. A lot of you are tired of hearing this

But if the Republicans run a Tuna Fish Sandwich in 2008, then the Tuna Fish Sandwich will be the President Of The United States.

That is, unless you get rid of the Voting Machines.

There will NEVER be a free election in this country again.

[driver8]

29. That is exactly right!!

The shrub should not have won in 2000 or 2004, but he did. We (the democrats) are powerless against these people. Unless this voting reform issue gets settled, 2008 will be a replay of the past two presidential elections. We all know that our Dem "Leaders" aren't going to do shit.

If Jeb runs, Jeb will be Prez.

[OneTwentyoNine]

42. Bump for this post...Rigged voting machines INSURES victory...

Challenge the way we vote before 08!!

[tom_paine]

45. It's never tiring hearing the truth

And you are 100% correct. The system is too thoroughly rigged, from corrupted media rto corrupted "voting" machines.

Hell, eventually, like in Nazi Germany, a tipping point will be reached where the Busheviks don't even have to cheat anymore to win.

You'll see. The snowball gathers force and speed.

[leftofthedial]

33. give me a break

they just "won" with the proven worst "president" in Murkan history.

they could run a beagle in 2008 and "win."

[allergygal]

34. Rice/Giuliani

As a Repbulican, I fear that Frankenfist (Bill Frist) might run. His name was all over the place as a possible contender for 2008 right after the election. But I'm hoping that's just crazy talk. If the Republicans put him on the ballot, I think Dean could even have a shot again ;)

Personally, I'd like to see Condi run. Condi for pres with Giuliani for VP!

You may commence pummeling.

[elsiesummers]

35. If they nominate Frist the Dems will win.

Yes I hope the Republicans nominate Frist. Always easier for the Democrat to win when running against a human cadaver.

But as I said above, I think it will be Jeb (this is why he was given the title of "tsunami boy").

This is why Rove took Giulliani out with the Bernard Kerrick mess - because Giulliani was the biggest primary threat to Jeb. They want Giulliani to run against Hillary in 2006. This way either he takes out Hillary for them or he is too dammaged to run against Jeb - a win either way for the Bushies.

It will not be Condi at the top of the ticket, unlikely for veep (but not impossible) also - any Republicans who think their party will nominate Condi to run for president really don't understand their party, certainly not all of their party. Condi, at the top of the ticket, would lose Republicans more votes than she will gain.

Chuck Hagel will be the McCain of 2008. His party will never nominate him. He will provide a useful foil as opposition for Jeb to "win" the primary from, so they can claim there was a contest.

McCain might run as veep to Jeb (he would be Jeb's Cheney), since Jeb will have to provide the experienced team to run that angle just like George the younger did in 2000. The alternative to McCain is a hispanic veep choice - thus the necessity of the Schwartzenager ammendment. If Jeb picks Condi for veep the Republicans are overconfident and it could prove an interesting race.

[tom_paine]

44. I'd like to think that is true, but do you really the the Goebbels v2.0

Propaganda Machine is going to close up and go home?

Do you think that, after stealing 3 consecutive elections, and having calibrated both manual and Electronic Disenfranchisement Techniques, and having gotten away with it without even having to cover up much of the softer manual disenfranchisements, that they are going to just quit and give it up?

You are living in a dream world, pal.

Whoever the Bushevik Propaganda machine decides to enthrone...will be enthroned as Emperor in 2008.

Sorry to rain on your parade, that's just how it is.

Speaking as someone who worked and donated quite a lot (relative to my income and free time) for Kerry '04, let me tell you, working a national Election in Imperial Amerika (or the Old Soviet Union) is like, well, like brining boxing gloves to a gunfight.

You'll see. As always I hope I am wrong.

But I am not.

Yoru view is very naive and does not accept an ioat of the observed Orwellian Reality of Imperial Amerika.

The Busheviks could run Satan and the Dems could run Jesus

and Jesus would lose, 51-49.

Bank on it.

[DalvaThree]

51. Bush barely won

Without 911 the pubs would be nowhere.

[borg5575]

53. They didn't have 911 in 2000...

and they still "won."

[DalvaThree]

55. They didn't get the popular vote

They got lucky in 2000 - it's not every day that a presidential election gets thrown into the Supreme Court.

They fought dirty in 2000 and they still lost the hearts and minds of the American people.

[borg5575]

56. As far as I'm concerned...

they didn't really win the popular vote in 2004 either. That's my point.

[DalvaThree]

57. they still barely won

cheating or no cheating they are barely holding on to their power. as the focus turns from abroad to the mess in our own country it will become harder and harder for them to win.

and my original point is that the candidates they have in '08 aren't that great. I think Bush is a horrible preznit, but he is a good campaigner. I'm saying they won't have even a good campaigner in '08.

[borg5575]

59. I hope you're right.

[tom_paine]

60. Saddam prefers to fix his "elections" 99-1%, Busheviks like to just

"barely win".

Serves the illusion, don't you know?

I hope you're right, but I am still of the opinion if the Busheviks ran Satan, horns and all, he would also "barely win".

Although, as time goes on and "Bringing Into Line" becomes stronger, it may be possible there will come a day when they will actually win without cheating.

I expect it to take them by surprise somewhere down the road, and we will have a 75%-25% win sometime in the next couple decades.

Then the Busheviks will have to calibrate their thefts downards.

I maintain that, as it was impossible for an oppsoition candidate to beat saddam, Hitler, Stalin, Brezhnev, the same condition exists here in the Empire.

Except THE PARTY will always "just barely win".

Every time.

Wait for it.

[ernstbass]

49. Rick Santorum or George Allen could raise thier ugly heads

[imenja]

54. we believed that in 04

You better not count on it. We need to start organizing now. We have to work hard to win.

[Dr Fate]

58. The GOP/media can run ANYONE they want and Swiftboat ANY DEM they want...

UNLESS DEMS can be unified and start being blunt and 100% truthful and REPETITIVE about the lies & crimes of the GOP/media.

The GOP/media can run a ham sandwich if they want- and they can turn any of our candidates into somone who "invented the internet" or "faked his purple hearts"- UNLESS we start BLUNTLY calling them on it in every single appearance.

Example:

"Wolf/Tim/Judy/Brit, this is just like the WMDs or the Swiftboat garbage-you are spreading GOP lies again, arent you?, let me do your job for you and present the facts..."