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Uniting the Dems against Gonzales based on moral values

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:06 AM
Original message
Uniting the Dems against Gonzales based on moral values
Opposing Gonzales is the right thing to do. I truly hope that the vote comes down to a partisan 55-45 vote. That puts the Democratic Party on the record as being morally opposed to *'s nominee because he supported torture as official US policy. The Democratic Party does not condone torture. We vigorously object to government officals who do support torture. This is a moral question about our values as a country. Let the Republicans speak to why they condone torture. Let them take their case to the court of World opinion. I know what my values are, and they do not include raping kids in front of their mothers in order to get information of dubious worth. They do not include waterboarding prisoners who might only be guilty of petty crimes. And I do not stand with torturers who defame the good name of the United States of America with actions that speak of petty thuggery. I will not allow the proud history of America as a moral nation with high values and regard for human liberty to be dragged in the mud by repulsive right-wingers who think they have the god-given right to do whatever they want. This will not stand.

How can * think that he is out defending freedom from all enemies when he is the one who is doing these undemocratic and tyrannical things? This is a slap in the face to generations of Americans who proudly fought for this country as a moral force in the world. Torture as state policy lumps us in with Saddam Hussein. It is a horrible stain on the honor of this nation and Democrats must not condone it. Ever.

I do not support this nominee and I will make sure all my Reps and Sens in Congress know this. I owe this to my fathers and mothers who fought for this nation and it's real moral values. And I owe it to my children, to see that they inherit a nation with a strong committment to human rights and civil liberties.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unless 'winning' is a moral value...
...I wouldn't count on Dems to oppose Gonzales. They're more concerned with their political futures and use relativism to exuse their lack of values.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. This is also about me
These are my values. I will make sure that my Reps know that. This is what Americans do, they make their views known and they hold their reps feet to the fire.

Again, these are my values. I will defend them and advance them to the best of my abilities. My parents, my brothers and sisters who served in the military and others that I know who honorably served, are not represented by * and his policies. These policies are a disgrace. And I do not condone it. Period.

I can wimp out and just let this pass or take some action. I choice the action and to let my reps know. Seems like the classic American thing to do.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm not trying to discourage you from taking action...
...just saying don't be too disappointed if your action means nothing to them.

Of course these policies are a disgrace. And thus it makes one wonder why the Democratic party has voted for or supported many of them over the last four years.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree
And we can knock about 10 posts off of here by saying that we both believe that actions that promote torture as official policy of the US are a disgrace. We agree on this.

I think Dems on the Hill are starting to wake up (something we shall have to wait and see on.) Feinstein has indicated that she will vote 'No' on Gonzales. She wimped out on the Condi vote. I have higher hopes for the Gonzales vote. (Although I don't truly believe it will be 45-55, I think Leiberman and some others might wimp out.) They still need to be held to account for their votes and what those votes mean.

This is also about me. It's about looking my kids in the eye and explaining what the hell is going on. It's about moral values, damn it, and what this country stands for and I have a tiny part to play in this. And I intend to play that part. For me, for my kids, for my own moral values. It matters.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Absolutely--can Dem Reps square thing with their selves/friends/family
This nomination is about American values and principles.

Folks who vote for Gonzo betray these values and principles.
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zanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Very thoughtful post.
Thanks for putting into words what we all feel. I feel the same way about torture, and I can remember the patriotic pride I used to have. I'd like to have it again, but not with a sense of denial. I agree that it's about values and morality. The Republicans have been very successful in hijacking those words for their own benefit. We should use them much more often, because our morals and values are legitimate.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. You Have The Argument Just Right. It's Also About Safety Of Our Troops
the GOP & Gonzalez endangered our troops by coming up with, sanctioning and implementing torture policies.

You don't torture the opposing force so they won't torture you.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Absolutely!
Thanks for pointing this out. This is also part of why I am so angry about this. the CIC of the US endangering his own troops with these disgusting and foolish actions.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. You should send this as an e-mail to all Dem and Moderate Rep Senators
You are right this country has NO values if we can't stand against torture and for the Geneva Convention. Your statement is powerful.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks for this. A Fax to them about not supporting Torture because
it's against our moral values and only harms our own troops by exposing them to retaliation is a good way to put this.

I wish I believed that some of them even have any moral values. Lieberman should be the first to target. He professes to have high moral values. That might be the way to have him confront his own conscience, if it's there, or expose his hypocracy.
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Will the Dems eat their own cooking?
Much the same crowd who two months ago were up in arms about appealing to moral values now advocate caving in to the Republicans on the Gonzales nomination. A lot of subtexts to this discussion, and a pretext or two.

Good statement, TayTay. Peace.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. We need a filibuster not a vote, Do you want your chidren torture?d
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 03:06 PM by genius
If you look at your own post, you will see that your own children are in danger of being tortured or killed. A filibuster is all that may save their lives.

A no vote is a lie when the no could really be a no - as in a filibuster.
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