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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:34 PM
Original message
Why I want Howard Dean...
I did not vote for Howard Dean in the primaries. I voted for Senator John Kerry. And I argued vigorously against Howard Dean because I felt he was inexperienced in Washington, had a very abrasive temperment, and was an unusual combination of being too conservative for me, while being labelled as too liberal in the mass consciousness.

He should be the chairman of DNC.

First off, he is so much. SO MUCH more polished now. He speaks with his own intellect, passion, and conviction, but also the political savvy of a man who has been through the wringer.

He knows what the media will do, because they did it to him (even though he asked for it.)

He speaks to the party. We dont need a conservative democrat DNC Chair saying how we need to be more conservative. We dont need a liberal democrat DNC chair saying how we need to be more liberal. We need a DNC Chair that is a DEMOCRAT, plain and simple, and represents the DEMOCRATIC party - not the conservative wing, not the liberal wing.

Howard Dean should be the chairman of the DNC. Hes a loudmouth, hes passionate, hes fiery.

Our candidate should be polished to a reflective luster. Our DNC chair can have just enough brazen chest-thumping to make the democrats strong.

And Dr. Dean rocks. But I still wont vote for him for Prez ;)
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dean for DNC baby!!!!!!!
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't want a loudmouth.
Howard Dean is a love him/hate him kind of guy overall... and I'm unsure that'd be wise. It might be the greatest thing in the world, but personally I don't see it.

But overall, I'm not spending too much time worrying about this because we don't *really* have a say anyway, from what I've seen.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. He stands firm
I hope he runs for President after slapping the DNC donkey for a little while.

I don't think he's a loudmouth but I think some may make that mistake after such a steady diet of meeley mouth.

Julie
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Loudmouth is too strong
Let me put it this way. In the general election, he wasn't refined. He made people "feel", not "think" which is enough to get the faithful motivated but not enough to get the people that dont care caring.

I dont think my candidate gave a weak message. I think he gave a nuanced, complex, and viable policy alternative, which in my opinion is what a good candidate should do.

I say leave it to the party to rally the faithful, which is what Dean's outspoken and unconditional advocacy is good for.
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NoStinkinBadges Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dean Would Be a Great DNC Chair
He was very effective getting out the base and did a superb job of raising funds. He developed the model for internet fundraising and the rest tried to copy.

Would be interesting to see what he could do as party chair.
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hear Hear, mr715!
Re: "Why I want Howard Dean": I agree with every word, Dr. Dean is much better suited to the DNC Chair than the White House. I too voted for John Kerry, and had been supporting him since the dark days of 2003. Unfortunately, I am not so sure about him now. It is possible that General Clark would have been the better candidate after all.
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. No.
John Kerry was clearly the best choice.

Howard Dean - abrasive "Hillary-esque" hatred from the right, too conservative for some but seen as too liberal by others, wouldnt be able to get minorities to support him, little experience with mass media, from a small liberal state, and lackluster debating

Wesley Clark - utterly inexperienced in political battle, extremely ineffective in the debates, poor campaign sense, no domestic policy experience

Joe Lieberman - could not garner Democratic support, no clear positions on anything, the most boring speaker ever born, and the fact that I don't think the "purple" states would vote for a religious Jew given the amount of reborn Christians

John Edwards - perceived as too young, little experience, trial lawyer

Dennis Kucinich - crystal waving lunatic

Richard Gephardt - close second for most boring speaker, record as being the losingest democratic floor leader in history, Congressional record for tax-raising

John Kerry - gives long speeches and uses big words

Gee, I think Kerry still is my choice.
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. Good points, but...
The problem with Kerry wasn't that he "gives long speeches and uses big words" (for me, at least). The problem was that he left the swifty lies unanswered and that his supporters explained his "voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it" better than he did. The nail in the coffin for me was that he did not make a stand over Ohio. Clark got better over time, he may have been a better choice for VP. Edwards added nothing. If Kerry wasn't going to go after the swifties, the VP nominee should have.

Too bad Gore chose not to run.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent Post! I share your sentiments....Dean for DNC Chair! n/t
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oppositionmember Donating Member (147 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. Concerning Howard Dean
It's about time we stopped kicking ourselves, and the
Democratic Party, and the Democratic National Committee, and
the Democratic Leadership Council, and...OK, let's leave it
there.

Our problem, if you wish to consider it one, is that we have
principles. People with principles - read ethics, read
morals, heck just read intelligence, consciousness, karma,
all that good stuff - can be taken advantage of more easily
than people without principles.

Many, many Republicans these days have absolutely no
principles. Politics is war. Take no prisoners - or if you do
be sure to parade them through the streets and humiliate and
degrade them.

But getting back to the karma thing - in American speech,
what goes around comes around. True, in the meantime, many
bad things happen to many good people. But payback will take
place. Even George W. Bush will get his comeuppance - who
knows how, but he's already condemned to being written down
as the worst president in American history bar none. Most
reasonable people already consider him as such.

So we have principles. John Dean has principles bigtime, John
Kerry somewhat less. Bill Clinton has them but loses them from
time to time. No one is perfect. But what separates Democrats
from Republicans (at least the George Bush, Dick Cheney,
Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz variety) is that Democrats
care about principles and keep trying to do better, to take
better care, to preserve the commonweal.

Ah yes, the commonweal. The good of all. All for one and one
for all. What is most ironic about the current debate is that
this ideal was held strongly by two great men, one a
Republican, one a Democrat - and they happened to be cousins.

Theodore Roosevelt, child of privilege, became the driving
force of the Progressive Age, waging war against patronage,
corruption, child labor, industrial and financial combines,
and senseless or greedy desecration of the environment. His
younger cousin, Franklin D. Roosevelt - well, he took a
country that was in despair and gave it hope, examined its
social structures and reformed them, and led the nation -
and, with Winston Churchill, the world - through the greatest
test and darkest nightmare it has known.

So the question arises: why are today's Republicans not only
rejecting the legacy of FDR, but the legacy of TR? The answer
is that both were regarded as traitors to their class, though
FDR to a much greater extent than TR. However, if we look
around us we have abundant evidence of their wisdom.
Yellowstone National Park. Social Security. Just for example.

So where does that leave us? Not to give up hope - not to
give up. It's true that the industrial and media and
financial combines of today are more powerful than anything
American society has ever known, that the political class of
today is more venal even than the backslapping,
cigar-smoking, whiskey-swilling politicians of the Gilded Age
- and more dangerous.

But we should take inspiration from our history - the history
of enlightened policitians, Democratic and Republican - and
fight the good fight. Be in opposition - it's no disgrace to
be the minority party; it's only a disgrace to be the
minority party and surrender your principles. So raise the
figurative barricades - or actual, if necessary - and resist,
oppose, speak out, hold up the flag of principle.

The Democratic party simply needs to remember that it
represents the downtrodden, the old, the poorly paid, the
aspiring, the struggling families, the visionary
entrepreneurs, the social reformers, the enlightened and
successful, and above all the humanists in American society.

Having followed this argument thus far there is only one
conclusion to reach: the Democratic Party does not need a
cheese-paring pragmatical compromiser at this point in
history. It needs a standard bearer, an orator, someone who
is mad as hell and is not going to take it any more.

Former presidential candidate Howard Dean is the only person
of that description who comes to mind. Perhaps he is not of
presidential timber - but only because he is too sincere. In
these times one cannot reveal oneself too much or the knives
immediately come out. But he has the stuff of a visionary,
and that is what the Democratic party needs - a visionary and
a humanist with fire in his (or her) belly.

So let it be Howard Dean. And let's get over it and kick
their butts you knuckleheads!
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fatal101 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Weak liberal
Everyone calls Dean a liberal but he's weak on a lot of liberal issues, even so, he'd be better than the other people going for the position.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dean
is the only choice for DNC chair, imho.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. go to www.standupdemocrats.org and vote for Dean. I agree with your
assessment and did the same in the primaries.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ok, let's take this point by point
<<I voted for Senator John Kerry. And I argued vigorously against Howard Dean because I felt he was inexperienced in Washington, had a very abrasive temperment, and was an unusual combination of being too conservative for me, while being labelled as too liberal in the mass consciousness.>>

He has no more Washington experience than he did two years ago, and I see no evidence that his temperament is any less abraisive either.

<<First off, he is so much. SO MUCH more polished now. He speaks with his own intellect, passion, and conviction, but also the political savvy of a man who has been through the wringer.>>

He's been through the wring to be certain. His campaign, after all, imploded. Dean was the Enron candidate -- all hype, no substance. I don't see how losing a campaign in such a disastrous fashion gives him political savvy.

<<He knows what the media will do, because they did it to him (even though he asked for it.)>>

In other words, he was destroyed by the media, so let's make him the public face of the Democratic Party. See the problem? Again, where is the evidence that Dean learned anything from his missteps, and where is the evidence the press will be any more forgiving the next time around?

<<He speaks to the party. We dont need a conservative democrat DNC Chair saying how we need to be more conservative. We dont need a liberal democrat DNC chair saying how we need to be more liberal. We need a DNC Chair that is a DEMOCRAT, plain and simple, and represents the DEMOCRATIC party - not the conservative wing, not the liberal wing.>>

I don't see how you can say he speaks to the party. Perhaps he speaks to YOU, but the fact is that he wasn't exactly embraced by the primary voters, many of whom found him and his supporters deeply irritating.

<<Howard Dean should be the chairman of the DNC. Hes a loudmouth, hes passionate, hes fiery.>>

Again, why exactly should we put our party in the hands of have abraisive loudmouth? You may find him passionate, but there are at least as many people who find him arrogant, annoying, etc. What is the value of having a lightning rod as chair of the party?
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yeah
No Washington Experience - None needed for running the DNC

Wringer - He has experience on what makes a campaign fall apart

Media - He will represent the party (with an outspoken message) and the candidate will represent the policy.

Like I said, I wouldnt vote him for Prez, but I think this is the job for him. Particularly after seeing what an overly politically correct DNC chair (Terry McAuliffe) failed at.

If behind the scenes, triangulation, and corporate money-raising doesnt work... try grassroots, empassioned, and outspoken
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Dean is standing up for Dean, period, and if you think he's a populist
you're sadly mistaken. His dirty tricks are damaging the party and he belongs in the GOP.
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I dont see it
He seemed a tireless supporter of Kerry.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Right, like Dumbya's a tireless supporter of the environment. n/t
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You can't name any other candidate who did more -- other than JE
(John Edwards), of course. Dean was out there consistently and vigorously and often. He had pledged throughout the primaries he would support whoever was the nominee and he made good on that promise starting immediately -- DESPITE the fact that it was Kerry's rowdy friends whose dirty tricks and backroom deals torpedoed Dean. I'll never forgive Kerry for that, never. But Howard Dean is a far better person than I am, so he overlooked it all and campaigned for him anyway.

Your remarks about Dean are so contrary to reality and fact as to bring your own credibility (if not sense of reality) into question. Or perhaps you have him confused with someone else??
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Sure, Dean smiles for the cameras and let's surrogates slice Kerry to
ribbons, just like Dumbya. Who does he think he's kidding?
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. what dirty tricks are those Nick?
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Those phony slander websites for one thing.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. Most primary voters never had the option of voting for him==
--so how do you know what they would have done if they'd had the chance?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Sign the petition.
And contact the DNC voters for your state, listed at:

http://drafthoward.com /
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good grief, I hope you'll never find it in your heart to actually
PRAISE him -- it could be his undoing.

:puke:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. Great post! Go Howard Go!
:yourock: Dr. Dean!
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Didn't vote for him for Democratic Nominee
I still wouldn't. But, I do want him as DNC Chair.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. You forgot.
He's HONEST!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
29. Where he is on the center/ left spectrum--
--is far less important to me now than where he is on the asskicking/caving in spectrum.
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