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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:32 PM
Original message
Kerry & Arnold partied together during the holidays - really

http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/05/01/mai05007.html

-snip-

Subject: the Kerrys visit the Schwarzeneggers

While Americans who took the election seriously were in Ohio, Florida and New Mexico (just to name a few places) fighting for democracy against time, arrogance, apathy, and criminal intent; at computers working to compile, catalog, and disseminate evidence of election fraud while the big-bucks media ignored, suppressed and belittled that same evidence (except as it occurred in Ukraine); writing letters and making phone calls to editors, reporters, members of Congress...all those people whose job it is to give a damn about fair and free elections in this country, from the San Francisco Chronicle...

P.S.: In other news of historic holiday parties, John Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry were at Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver's Christmas do in Sun Valley. The former candidate, largely AWOL post-election, was seen in intense conversation with Dennis Miller. (Perhaps it was something like, "Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down. ... I pick myself up and start over again.'' "The tuna tartare is to die over, but do you think it's safe to eat raw fish in Idaho?'')

Leah Garchik column 1-6-05 (SF Chronicle)

A BuzzFlash Reader

-snip-
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?
----------------------------------------------------------
Save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#...
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. does any species do that?
nt
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. Humans n/t
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. The thought of Kerry actually talking to Miller makes me feel dirty.
eom
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jrthin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Me too. nt
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. So WTF is Kerry supposed to do? Is it a sin if he shakes Bush's hand?
or would you rather he spit on his feet and yell "I fart in your general direction!"???
Maybe there is a possibility Miller will have nice things to say about Kerry the next time he gets a chance.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Glad he had fun before being AWOL from senate on January 6
You really don't know what he was supposed to do? Hint: in Ukraine, Romania - candidates defrauded like Kerry asked for a new election. They are taking office now. Ah, but the parties there are so much more boring...
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have a couple questions for you...
1) Did you go to any Christmas parties over the holidays, or did you spent every waking moment cataloguing evidence of fraud?

2) Did you spend the past year campaigning for the Presidency, the year before that campaigning for the nomination, and the year before that for your Senate seat? Every day?

John Kerry has got to be exhausted and depressed. How about giving him a month or so off, especially since the election is not going to be overturned, nor was it ever.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. No, no time offs
nt
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Well, when I'm exhausted and need to relax...
...the LAST place I want to find myself is surrounded by Gov. Gropenator and Dennis Miller!

Would YOU find that relaxing? Who here would?

If Kerry finds it 'relaxing' to surround himself with gloating Republicans right after an extremely ugly and divisive political campaign, then I really do start to wonder about him...

In any case, it was a very bad move, image-wise.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. How was the party?
I'm assuming that you were there, since you know that the Republicans there were gloating.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Yes, I went to parties
Where I chatted it up with freepers and Republican media whores.

Now, enough about the holidays, lets talk about me.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. I didn't go to any parties given by right wing GOPers who hate our guts.

DId you? I'm sure John and Teresa could have avoided this particular party.
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ArtVandaley Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Arnold isn't a right winger
He's very much a moderate, moreso than many Democrats. I'm not saying he's a great guy, but he isn't a rightwinger.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. You think so? You think he doesn't support the entire right wing

economic agenda?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
57. Did ya watch the RNC convention?
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ArtVandaley Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. Arnold's pro-choice. Our Senate LEADER isn't even pro-choice
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. You can tell much about a person by the company he keeps.
Partying with repuke assholes does not reflect well on anybody, and there are few people on this planet less worth wasting vocal chords on than Dennis Miller.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Dennis Miller called war opponents and Bush opponents.....
"Un-Patriotic" and our candidate is making chit chat with him???

:wtf:?

How the hell did we ever get John Kerry as our candidate???

Maybe Kerry likes being called "UNPATRIOTIC". Afterall, he didn't fight back the swiftboat liars for a month. He was windsurfing afterall!

:eyes:
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. How silly. n/t
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. I now realize how my clients must have felt...
when I would go out to lunch with opposing counsel. :(

OTOH, I wouldn't have been caught dead on the same sidewalk with some of the lying f**ks, and that should be the controlling principle here, IMO.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Maria Shriver is a Democrat and a Kennedy!!!!
I love the way this sort of dribble gets posted on each forum of DU! Here's my response to the other thread about this.

Sad but true even politicians sometimes leave the job at home to attend social functions.

Maria Shriver is a Dem and a Kennedy and she supported Kerry in the elections.


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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. yeah, yeah, yeah
BUT Maria helped get her muscle-brained husband elected and apparently included Dennis Miller (gag, choke, puke) on the guest list.

Sorry, it's just too much. Maria and Arnold are like Mary (Matalin) and James (Carville) ... in each marital case, the Dem has lost his/her vim, vigor, fight and bite; they even look gaunt like abused spouses.

Sorry, we fought for Kerry; he could at least have appeared to fight back and if not, then he could have licked his wounds sans the company of Repuke thugs like Arnold (despite his wife) and Dennis.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Ed Koch and Zell Miller also democrats. your point being?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Richard Perle & Doug Feith are Democrats too. It's a meaningless label
nowadays.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chris Heinz (ya know son of of Mrs. Heinz Kerry)
Pointed out that they have been going to this party for oh 30 years. And oh some other nice people were there too, like Springsteen. Not just evil types like the Governator.


Meanwhile, at Crawford..was that SATAN or Dick Cheney at the ranch? Talking heads want to know.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
63. I thought SATAN was Dickie's street name n/t
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
78. apparently 30 yrs. has turned this party into dogma


dogma ain't good

rituals are made to be broken
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bruce Springsteen and Rob Reiner were there also
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Stay away from that pod, Bruce!
Oh. my. god! They got Bruce!!

:cry:

Oh the humanity!!!

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
58. NOT MY REPRESENTATIVES. I don't care what THEY do.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. For some, this was all a game (unfortunately, including our candidate)
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 04:14 PM by robbedvoter
For us it was a fight against fascism overtaking the country. But for some - it's like some sort of sports competition - you shake hands, meet again....pretend to compete again....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. And for some it was a holiday party they attended for many years.
Just as evil as me spending Christmas with the BFEE pawns otherwise known as my sister and her husband.

And was Kerry giggling away with Dennis Miller or telling him that his attacks on him were false and a disservice to the American people? Which is more likely?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
60. Are you taking bets here? The timing of this was horrible.
Almost as bad as the trip to Iraq. These people were NOT his family - the whole fraternizing after the theft smaks of contempt for the "little people" - unfamous and concerned with democracy.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. Next time, let's get us a better candidate!
Wes Clark!!!
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Democrat Dragon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Skull and Bones!
:tinfoilhat:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Kennedy Clan!!
:eyes:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. I bet Ted Kennedy was there too
Have at em, folks.

Nevermind that Maria is a Kennedy neice. That wouldn't have anything to do with it. Nah.

So was Bruce Springsteen, by the way. They're all in on it, I tell ya. They're all laughing at you personally. All of them. Me too: baahahahaha (coff, coff).

Thread three, and counting.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. And your point is? Did Kennedy voted to cancel the Ohio results?
As for entertainers, didn't vote for them, expect no representation.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Any YOUR point is?
You're talking as if the party was at the exact same moment as the vote.

If Kerry is tainted by partying with Arnold, then so is Bruce Springstein, Rob Reiner, Ted Kennedy (presumably there), and anyone else on the list we don't know about. Maria the Kennedy neice is tainted for even marrying the bum.

You think Conyers didn't go to a holiday party or two? Get a grip.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. The exact time as the Conyers hearings...I know people who dropped
everything and went to Ohio to help with the recount...Shows you how silly it was to think we had someone representing us.
When you'll recover from hero worship, look around and smell the fascism. This WAS NOT A GAME!!!!!!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. He was in freakin' Iraq, for pity's sake
Not at a damn party.

And I'd suggest that all the soldiers we have in that fight against fascism are valuable. That's why I'm on Democratic Party Back Watch.

He was there. Though some refuse to acknowledge it, he was there. He's still involved in at least one of the lawsuits there. He didn't have to be physically there to be with us.

When you recover from your post election trauma, I hope you will see that more people support the fight against fascism than you might suppose, even if they're not doing exactly what you want exactly when you want it.

It's not hero worship per se. I'm just not as blind pissed at him as others are. I try to put together what I read, and make a viable truth out of it. Others it appears never took the time to get to know our candidate, or they'd know he's not the man their painting him to be.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. You still think Kerry's going to be inaugurated January 20?

Still think he's playing that chess game? Hah!

BTW, who WAS that masked Campaign Consultant who posted here for a time and promised to reveal his/her identity?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. I never was a "Jan. 20th" person
I'm in this for the long haul. The world will not end on Jan 20th.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Iraq? Not Sun Valley? You sure?
I didn't see you saying that party story was untrue, just givimg more detals about the attendance. Iraq - 2 years after his catastrophic IWR vote was more insult to injury.
As for "my post-election trauma" - nice way to say "get over it"
There were 2 stolen elections one after the other - what exactly os the remedy you propose? Does involve crying in teacups? :argh:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Rob you lost me
Which are you talking about, the holiday Party or the contested vote on Jan 6th.

Holidays = Sun Valley and probably a holiday party or two. I bet even Conyers got to go to a party without crucifixion. Meanwhile, he had lawyers involved in Ohio. Meanwhile, he also had time to put in a call to the Bank of England in support of the BCCI disenfranchised.

Jan 6th = Iraq, fact-finding, doing his job as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and as Senator.

So, which are you pissed at again? Both?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. I am sure Conyers did NOT party with the Delays.
Jan 6 - there were no more facts to be found in Iraq - he missed that train in 2002. His duty on January 6 was to be at his job - voting in the senate.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Jan 6th the member of the Foreign Relations Committee was doing his job
And if there's nothing more to know in Iraq, I wonder why there are still congresspeople going there even now. They apparently don't agree with you.

Was his job to vote no too, along with all the other Senators except for Boxer. She was designated apparently. Bless her for stepping up. But I will not crucify the other Senators for not.

Kerry was partying with the Kennedy clan. Horrors.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. he was conveniently in Iraq
- just as his IWR vote was conveniently (at the time) finger in the presidential wind rather than REPRESENTING the wishes of his Massachusetts constituents (4:1 against)...

- just as he failed to vote against BushCo's Medicare Drug bill (though he spoke so much about it at one of the debates) because he said ultimately that his vote wouldn't have kept the bill from passing when the fact was he couldn't be bothered lodging a protest NAY vote because it would not have been politically prudent.

Spare the defense. JK was the "electable" candidate because of DLC/media spin. But when the rubber hit the road, he proved to be a Wimpocrat. Too bad we didn't have the 1971 version of Kerry.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. well put
and oh, so true! It was deadly serious for many of us, some of whom parted ways with friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, etc. over this election and what Bushco and HIS SUPPORTERS represent.

We needed real fighters and real representation. Partying with the crowd that includes some loathesome repukes just because you've done so for 30 years ... spare me. JK once told Larry King that he could not be bothered with seeing F/911 because he had lived it and knew what it was about. He pointedly distanced himself from Michael Moore (unlike repukes who fawn over Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc.) Yet he can converse with Dennis Miller. WTF?! Thanks for reporting for duty, JK!

My new mantra is never again. No more milquetoast, repuke-lite, cave-in, tutu-tutu Dems.

PS: love your avatar, robbedvoter. And by the way, we all were indeed robbed.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Thanks. My handle is 4 years old - never needs changing.
And yeah, distancing from F911 was a pretty clear sign - as one of the 2 major themes there was the lack of fight against the first stealing of an election. That's why maxine Waters dedicated her objection to Michael Moore.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I bet Barbara Boxer went home for Xmas
I wonder if Bruce spoke to Dennis. Should we crucify him too?

I bet Conyers went home for Xmas.

Even Michael Moore.

Why isn't Maria Shriver considered Satan for even marrying Arnold. And why don't the Republicans crucify him for being married to a Kennedy?

Why are we having a fit because John Kerry was doing what we already knew he was doing. We knew he headed out to Idaho for the holiday. Big fucking surprise. You think he spent the holiday in ash and sackcloth on a bed of nails?

Oh, I forget. It's Velcro Johnny. Everything sticks.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. SO? Did SHE party with Arnie and Dennis Miller, too?

We're not complaining about Kerry going to A party, we're complaining about him going to THIS party.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Some of you are complaining as if it had something to do with the recount
or the contesting of the vote. It had neither.

So, is Bruce Springstein also Satan, now? Is Maria Satan for marrying Arnold? How about the other Kennedys who were probably there too. Or is it just John Kerry?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. What don't you get here? Kerry was the Democratic presidential

candidate, the man who could have unseated Bush**, but while Greens and Libertarians spearheaded the Ohio recount effort, Kerry laid low. He started this new mode of behavior only hours after the election ended, conceding earlier than he needed to, and leaving our collective back unprotected.

Now look at what Kerry has done since the election: he's made a trip to Iraq (which looks like positioning for 2008) and he's partied at the home of the man who's the best-known Republican governor in the U.S..

Going to that party, at that particular time in history, shows that John and Teresa are sadly out of touch with many of us who supported John Kerry in 2004. It adds insult to the injury of his early concession of the race. It suggests he never meant half of what he said about the importance of the election.

Go ahead and vote for him in 2008 if you like but many of us won't be fooled again.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. He's done more than that
He had a presence in Ohio along side the Greens and Libs. He didn't have to, but he did.

He was never going to unseat Bush after Nov. 3. That was a fantasy. And recounting did diddly if you will recall.

There's a list somewhere of what his lawyers were doing in Ohio. Aside from that, he's been to NH and Iowa to thank them for their support, gone to a soldier's funeral, blasted the Bank of England, made one vid, sent two or three emails asking for action, and gone to Iraq.

That's what's been in the news so far. Unless you are part of the entourage, I should think that you, like I, would have to make do with the news reports we've gotten. Even so, it appears he's been busier than you make him out to be.

Some of you won't be fooled again. How many exactly we shall know in 2008. You don't necessarily represent the majority of Dems.

I will do more than vote for him in 2008. I will support him and all the Dems until then. Because it's too early to fight that battle. We have things to do now. I have local battles to fight in the meantime, for instance.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. He distanced himself from the fraud - so, all the escapism stinks.
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:23 PM by robbedvoter
He left us fighting the "but he conceeded" and the "face it, you immoral libruls, you lost" BS. Maria is a pathetic doormat, have no opinions on Springsteen (didn't ever asked for my vote)
And never forget that Adolph barked at the RNC convention. The one with the purple hearts bandaids.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. you're damn right
it's velcro Johnny who voted for IWR, the Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, who went along with Bushco knowing what shits they all are. He promised he'd fight; he didn't. Then to add insult to injury he hobnobs with a fucking bastard who turned out a duly elected Dem governor and with a fucktard former comedian turned RW shill who bashed him throughout the campaign.

I don't give a shit what Bruce does, he didn't run for president. And I can't stand horseface DINO Maria either nor do I care what she does including sleeping with muscle brain girly man. She may have Kennedy blood but the blood line has obviously thinned.

Conyers, Moore and Boxer probably did go home but when the time came to fight, they answered the call.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. He wasn't alone
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:16 PM by LittleClarkie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=artic...

"It's true that he opposed the war in Iraq, he says, but he supported the 1991 Gulf War and the Bush campaign against the Taliban in Afghanistan. More interesting, at a time when many politicians are shuddering at President Bush's ambitions to remake the Middle East -- conservatives, because they are skeptical of such grand reshaping ambitions; liberals, because they see resources being diverted from social causes at home -- Dean sounds if anything more committed than Condoleezza Rice to bringing democracy to Iraq.

"Now that we're there, we're stuck," he said. Bush took an "enormous risk" that through war the United States could replace Saddam Hussein and the "small danger" he presented to the United States with something better and safer. The gamble was "foolish" and "wrong." But whoever will be elected in 2004 has to live with it. "We have no choice. It's a matter of national security. If we leave and we don't get a democracy in Iraq, the result is very significant danger to the United States."

And "bringing democracy to Iraq is not a two-year proposition. Having elections alone doesn't guarantee democracy. You've got to have institutions and the rule of law, and in a country that hasn't had that in 3,000 years, it's unlikely to suddenly develop by having elections and getting the heck out." Dean would impose a "hybrid" constitution, "American with Iraqi, Arab characteristics. Iraqis have to play a major role in drafting this, but the Americans have to have the final say." Women's rights must be guaranteed at all levels.

(snippage for copyright thingie)

If all this sounds like a recipe for a larger, even more imperial military, Dean says no; it's a recipe for better involving NATO and the United Nations. He would rebuild American diplomacy and recommit to multilateralism; in a nice bit of jujitsu on a Bush campaign 2000 theme, Dean says he would "restore honor and dignity to the United States' reputation around the world." "

Sounds alot like the stance of someone else I know. But that's my Teflon Johnny. Others can say near the same as he, but he will get the flak as they get the accolades.

Others have also said that No Child Left Behind was a good idea, if only Bush would have funded the damn thing.

And even the one Senator who voted against Patriot doesn't want it trashed altogether, just fixed.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. I wouldn't bring up the company (BFEE, PNAC, GOP & some Dems)
The lames defense "they all do it". It's what the press uses when W gets in deep doodoo (ex Enron) and they bring up dems who got donations from Enron. Pathetic.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. ???????????? was this for me (post 46) or
more appropriately for post 49. My point is I don't care about the others because they weren't our "leader" our nominee. When it comes time to stand up and be counted Conyers, Boxer and Michael Moore are there.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. Shriver is garbage for helping Adolph's fan getting elected.
And it's not "velcro Johny" - it's Bagdad John - the one who got praised by all the freepers in congress for rolling over. We had to push up, over his dead body!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. Sorry he can't be Baghdad Johnny
He's already Hanoi Johnny. You'll have to take a number and sit down.

Here you go...

124697425790753257976543334446554345664768743

Now calling number: 3.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
54. OMG first Jennifer and Brad and now this....
A little to Star magazine for me to get worked up about. I like Maria and as far as Republicans go, Arnold is no where near my most feared or disliked. (*, Cheney, Frist, Delay, Brownbeck, Blackwell, etc.) Would it be a big deal if he went to a party with John McCain? just wondering. :shrug:
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Dear Ohio, remember the RNC convention? Your favorite Adolph
barking there? One would think being from Ohio you'd ve more upset about the fraud.... :shrug:
I guess as long as it wasn't YOU challenged, purged, standing 10h in line it's OK. Party on!
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. I do remember the convention
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:39 PM by OhioBlue
but, McCain supported * too and I don't hate him. Arnold is by no means my favorite anything, but i really think the idea of JK and THK going to a Christmas party at his residence is some kind of scandal is trivial. Maria was at the Dem's convention.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Your feelings for McCain are irrelevant here. (I hate them all)
What is trivial is what they make of the death of democracy. They are dancing on its grave.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Well, I guess we both have underlying
opinions regarding JK. I don't think there is anything that can be done right now to change the election. I think there should definitely be an investigation and I would love to see Ken Blackwell go down, b/c the real tragedy is the long lines and disenfranchisement as you mentioned before. But, the problem that I see are the votes that were not cast more than the ones that were stolen. I'm sorry for my earlier sarcasm, just can't understand why it seems there are as many attacks on JK as *.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. We accepted a fraudulent election - AGAIN. probably the last one
anyway. Next time they won't need to steal it, lots of people like me will realize the futility of it all and stay home. And Kerry bears a lot of responsibility for those consequences.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. I sorry to hear that you feel that way.
I had the opposite reaction. This was the first year I have been "involved" with the palatial scene. I was more angry about the * win b/c of the people I know that voted for him. I will definitely start earlier and work harder next time and will probably never sit out an election again - even at the local level. I know you feel frustrated now, hopefully the dems will redeem themselves with election reform legislation which includes the elimination of electronic voting. (no audit trail and machines that contribute to the long lines) The County that I live in had paper ballots that were filled out with #2 pencils. No lines, plenty of pencils. Seems like such an obvious solution to me.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
66. Gosh, I thought Dems and repugs should venomously hate each other 's guts
According to some political manual I found somewhere, Dems and Repugs should hate each other with all their might and want to strangle each other if they were ever in the same room, restaurant, mass transit or financial institution at the same time.
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littleleaguemom Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. They went to a party at their neighbors, what is the problem?
Should they suddenly become rude and spray paint their house instead? I'm sure the Schwarzeneggers were good hosts and did nothing to make their guests uncomfortable. It's Christmas, good will toward men, etc.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Well said
Are we to expect that our leaders should be completely cut themselves off from all opposing views or all people who represent the other party? I thought that's one big thing we hate Bush for.

Kerry has long been friends with Maria Shriver and Arnold Schwarzennegger. Say what you will about Arnold, and I'm not what I'd call a fan of his, he did earlier in the campaign praise Kerry and say that he would refrain from criticizing Kerry on the campaign trail (which he did). By most accounts he and Kerry are genuinely on friendly terms, whereas his relationship with Bush is said to be chilly.

And as for Kerry talking to Dennis Miller - so what? It doesn't mean he has to agree with him. It's called being able to be a real person and treat other people with respect and dignity. Hell, I think that trait would have made Kerry a great president.

But don't tell that to DU. To them, any Republican is EVIL. EVIL. And anybody who even does so much as utter ONE WORD at them is complicit in the destruction of this country.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
70. What did I do?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Rethugs and Dems...
are not enemies. They are rich people that mingle with each other. The elete don't fight each other, they just pretend to do so in public. The elete rule over the peasants. What has changed in thousands of years? A lot of things have but not the structure of power.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. you didn't make sure all the votes were counted
you said that knowing what you know now, you'd still vote for IWR ...

you continue to distance yourself from the process that made us all robbed voters

But you're still a rich, powerful, white guy, a member of the club. You'll be OK personally so what does it matter ... to you?
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'll play devil's advocate: Who here has no Repulican friends or family?
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 11:18 PM by Clarkie1
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

Does Ted Kennedy party with Arnold too, or have the Kennedy's disowned Maria Shriver?

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Still_Loves_John Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
77. Probably cause of Maria
He has close ties to the Kennedys and everything.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
79. I wonder how Angelides and Lockyer feel about this.
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