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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:43 AM
Original message
The battle and its beginnings early in 2003. The DLC and Dean
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:19 AM by madfloridian
I have more research on what others did, I have not posted it because it is not kind. I hope I change my mind later, and that I hold to my resolve not to do so. No man is perfect, he made mistakes, we made mistakes....but what was done to him shows a party that needs to start over. And NOT just the DLC.


Dean Statement in Response to DLC's Charge that Public Servants are
"Fringe Activists"

Once again, the DLC has chosen to put their own political agenda
ahead of the progress needed to unite the Democratic Party. This election
has barely begun, and the DLC has repeatedly dismissed people who attend
caucuses, who get out the vote, and now the 1.3 million members of AFSCME as
fringe activists who do not reflect the mainstream values, national pride
and the economic aspirations of middle-class and working people.


The DLC staff can say what they want about me, but they owe an
apology to the 1.3 million members of AFSCME. Our teachers, our health care
workers, and our state and local public servants don't need a lesson from
Washington insiders about the needs and concerns of middle- and
working-class families. What they need is a Democratic Party that will stand
up for them.


Posted by Mathew Gross at 04:27 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000206.html

Tell From and Reed of the DLC What You Think
Click here to sign a letter to the Democratic Leadership Council
telling them that you're an active Democrat who supports Howard Dean. You
can tell your friends about the link, too: www.deanforamerica.com/DLC



Fineman on the DLC Memo
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000213.html
Quoting because the archives are hard to read:
"FINEMAN ON THE DLC MEMO
I went and read the memo. It's hysterical. I don't mean funny. I mean, it's hysterical. He calls them everything but a plagiarist, an elitist, an activist. It's like, it's a compliment to Howard Dean. They're reacting like Howard Dean has already won the nomination. Howard Fineman, on the DLC memo attacking Howard Dean, on Hardball, 5/15/03

Posted by Mathew Gross at 10:25 AM

Former DNC-Chief Steve Grossman to DLC: "Creating Conflict is Not
Leadership."
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000225.html
SNIP.."FORMER DNC-CHIEF STEVE GROSSMAN TO DLC: "CREATING CONFLICT IS NOT LEADERSHIP."
On Wednesday, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) released a memo in which the DLC argued that traditional Democratic values are an aberration and that the thousands of grassroots Democrats inspired by Governor Howard Dean's message to take back our party?are activist elites and not real Democrats. Former DNC chairman Steve Grossman wrote to members of the Democratic National Committee in an email sent yesterday, criticizing the DLC:

Having served proudly as National Chairman of the Democratic National Committee, I was disappointed by recent statements by the Democratic Leadership Council that disparaged Governor Howard Dean's record of fiscal discipline and social compassion. I was particularly distressed because DLC leaders chose to label tens of thousands of grassroots Democrats who are energized by Governor Dean's message as elitist. "




Liberal Oasis on Howard Dean and the DLC
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000226.html
SNIP.."May 16, 2003 PERMALINK
The "Smear Dean" Campaign Is On
(posted May 16 2:15 AM ET)
(minor edit May 16 12:45 PM ET)

The DLC memo is titled "The Real Soul of the Democratic Party."
But it should be "Kneecapping Howard Dean."


However, it is so ludicrously ham-handed, Dean trumpeted it himself on his campaign web site. (A smart rapid response that bodes well for the future.)

If the memo was a principled argument over what the party should stand for, that would be fine. You can have honorable disagreements within one's party.

But the memo is nothing but a string of half-truths and contradictions designed to ward off insiders from backing Dean, while at the same time undermine Dean's support from the Left....."

And the recriminations began against many who were in leadership positions and backed Dean. It was real and it happened. Long article here, very good.

I will put more in another post, as this is getting long. I figured since everyone else was having their polls and basheroos I would tell some truths.

I thank a fellow DUer, not sure if he is a Dean supporter, for some of the links I had lost. I will add a post to show the DLC comments about Dean and us and those who stood with him in early 2003.








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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. The blog quotes the DLC praise of Dean through the years.
Will the Real DLC Please Stand Up?
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000228.html

Friday, May 16, 2003
WILL THE REAL DLC PLEASE STAND UP?
On Wednesday, May 14th, the Democratic Leadership Council released a memo that dismissed Governor Howard Dean as an elitist liberal from the ''McGovern-Mondale wing'' of the Democratic Party. It wasn't so long ago that the DLC was praising Howard Dean as an exemplar of moderate, centrist Democratic positions. Governor Deans record hasn?t changed. What changed at the DLC?

10.27.00- The DLC praises Governor Dean's prescription drug plan as the "Idea of the Week".
"Governors Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Howard Dean (D-VT) and Angus King (I-ME) jointly announced their three states would come together to create a regional purchasing pool for prescription drugs. Best of all, the regional plan will rely on market mechanisms."

11.8.96- The DLC posts a memo on their website Claiming Dean's re-election victory as Governor of Vermont was evidence of the success of New Democratic leaders.
"State election results provide additional evidence of Democratic resurgence under New Democratic leadership. Centrist Governor Howard Dean of Vermont won re-election comfortably."

11.4.96- The DLC posts a memo on their website praising Dean as a Centrist, popular Democratic Governor, and predicts he will win re-election easily.
"Democrats in state politics, regardless of their background, tend to be New Democrats by instinct, in part because they are responsible for making public institutions actually work to help citizens solve their most immediate problems. Incumbent centrist Democratic Governors Howard Dean of Vermont is popular and heavily favored for re-election."

Posted by Mathew Gross at 12:31 PM

(This memo from Mathew will help those who claimed Dean said he was a lefty guy.....to see you are wrong. )

(This memo is to show those who think WE don't know Dean's moderate centrist stances....you are wrong.)

I have several other memos.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. My gut reaction to this "two-faced" DLC: it's all about Iraq
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 11:07 PM by Clarkie1
It was all about the war. Dean was perceived as the anti-war candidate, and at that period of time there was a whole lot of confusion in the democratic party regarding Iraq and the official position of the party.

Note the dates here:

March 19, 2003- Invasion of Iraq begins when the United States launches Operation Iraqi Freedom. Called a decapitation attack, the initial air strike of the war targets Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi leaders in Baghdad , with unclear results.

May 1, 2003- The United States declares an end to major combat operations.

Friday, May 16, 2003
WILL THE REAL DLC PLEASE STAND UP?
On Wednesday, May 14th, the Democratic Leadership Council released a memo that dismissed Governor Howard Dean as an elitist liberal from the ''McGovern-Mondale wing'' of the Democratic Party. It wasn't so long ago that the DLC was praising Howard Dean as an exemplar of moderate, centrist Democratic positions. Governor Deans record hasn?t changed. What changed at the DLC?

At this time, people were rallying behind Bush, rallying behind the flag, and rallying behind a war that looked momentarily like a swift success story. The war was less than 2 months old. Bush had just pranced on the carrier and declared an end to major combat operations. Dean and a few others were voices in the wilderness.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. You may have a huge point there. The war was OUR turning point.
I am only now beginning to realize how really furious I was at our Democrats for going along with this invasion. Now, a minimum of between 100,000 and 200,000 dead Iraqi civilians later (according to Lancet)....our Democrats on the whole are still saying it was ok.

I think the war WILL turn out to be turning point of our country, and the blame will have to be shared.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great post. You just "Tombstoned" the DLC. Great work.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not meant to harm, just to present facts.
The attacks don't stop, and if the DLC reaches out, we reach out gladly. I am just tired of the divisions being made here.

I present facts and back up sources. I usually present their own words. My intention was the truth as I see it and as others saw it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Congressional leaders ask the DLC to back off.
Goodness this turned early on into a who started what thingy.

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000238.html

Thursday, May 15, 2003
CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS CALL ON DLC TO STOP DIVISIVE TACTICS
The following statements were issued today in response to the recent memo circulated by Al From and Bruce Reed of the Democratic Leadership Council:

Senator James Jeffords (I-VT):

"As the Independent Senator from Vermont, I have worked with Governor Howard Dean and I know his long-standing record. I am disappointed to see leaders of the Democratic Leadership Council characterize his positions as extreme and elitist, and I call on them to stop their divisive tactics. Since when did it become extreme and elitist to balance the budget, extend health care coverage, offer equal educational opportunity and protect our environment? I have heard such charges coming from Republicans most of my political life, but I find it incredible to hear such charges coming from Democrats."

Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT):

"Lumping Governor Dean with the so-called "liberal elitist" wing of our party will make Vermonters of all political stripes chuckle Governor Dean's twelve year record in the statehouse was not liberal, conservative or elitist. He inherited a deficit, balanced the budget, pinched pennies, provided healthcare to all Vermont's children, protected the environment and created jobs. That is a record of accomplishment, achieved with the broad support of Republicans and Democrats in Vermont."

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren (D-CA):

"When I go home every weekend, my constituents talk to me about health care, education and the economy. Dr. Howard Dean has an outstanding record of achievement in all of these areas. As governor, 96% of Vermont's children had health coverage, and an additional 3% were eligible. He passed fiscally responsible budgets each and every year. He built a strong educational system, and as a result, Vermont's students rank 6th in the country in overall performance. Dr. Dean's record is one that ALL Democrats can be proud of.

Al From and Bruce Reed spend a lot of time talking about myths in Democratic nominating process. I think it is more important to focus on the facts:

Fact #1: Attacking fellow Democrats is wrong and will do nothing to help beat George W. Bush in 2004.

Fact #2: Dr. Dean is a proven leader in the Democratic Party with a broad and growing base of support.

Fact #3: Dr. Dean will be the Democratic Party's nominee next year and will go on to beat George W. Bush. (WELL, we all know this did not happen.)

It is disappointing that From and Reed feel the need to rip into fellow Democrats. They should stop these misguided efforts, and spend their considerable resources on beating George W. Bush."

Posted by Mathew Gross at 05:16 PM
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. two from VT (Dean's homestate) and another who endorsed Howard Dean
Hardly a decree of support from Congressional leaders.

And why would they?

On October 14, 2003, a voter asked Dean about entrenched Beltway bureaucracy. The New York Times reported that the Iowan "mentioned Republicans and Democrats alike, and Dr. Dean made no distinction."

Dean said that if he won, lawmakers in Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches."

Don't think many congressional leaders would have defended Dean after being compared to cockroaches.

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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Wow, same tired meme. Simile, look it up
Same talking point used by Repugs.

:eyes:

RL
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Activists are out of Step" From and Reed. 2003
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251866&kaid=8 ...

SNIP..."These days, Democrats act as if they're so far gone they've forgotten where they're from.

Every weekend, yet another special-interest group hosts a candidate forum to pressure the presidential candidates into praising its agenda. Some of the candidates seem intent on running applause-meter campaigns, measuring success by how many times they tell the party faithful what they want to hear.

There's one big problem with this strategy: Most of those party activists the candidates are trying so hard to please are wildly out of touch not only with middle America but with the Democratic rank and file. The great myth of the campaign is the misguided notion that the hopes and dreams of party activists and single-issue groups represent the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. They don't.

The fact is, "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," as former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean likes to call it, is an aberration, a modern-day version of the old McGovern wing of the party, defined principally by weakness abroad and elitist interest-group liberalism at home. That wing lost the party 49 states in two elections and turned a powerful national organization into a much weaker, regional one. ....."END SNIP
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AND back to May of 2003

The Real Soul of the Democratic Party
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251690&kaid=1 ...

Myth #1: Real Democrats Always Turn Left

Unlike Gov. Howard Dean, we never forget to give the late Sen. Paul Wellstone credit for coining the phrase, "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party." We often disagreed with Sen. Wellstone on the issues, but we always knew he was fighting for the little guy.

But the great myth of the current cycle is the misguided notion that the hopes and dreams of activists represent the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Real Democrats are real people, not activist elites. The mission of the Democratic Party, as Bill Clinton pledged in 1992, is to provide "real answers to the real problems of real people." Real Democrats who champion the mainstream values, national pride, and economic aspirations of middle-class and working people are the real soul of the Democratic Party, not activists and interest groups with narrow agendas. ...."

And with this post I leave you to search and read the DLC article called "Good Night, Vietnam."

And so good night, I have had my say.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. And one more before I retire. "Nothin' but Net" slamming activists.
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251916&kaid=1...

From July 2003
"Nothin' but Net" (their very ugly look at how we were going to ruin the party.)

DLC | Blueprint Magazine | July 27, 2003
Nothing But 'Net
Howard Dean's protest campaign has found a niche online. Could it be the next dot-com bust?
By Randolph Court

When the books closed on the Democratic presidential aspirants' second-quarter fundraising drives, it was clear that Howard Dean's anti-war, anti-Bush rhetoric, combined with his use of the Internet, had successfully whipped up a sizable bloc of liberal, protest-oriented supporters in the early stages of the campaign. He had raised more than $10 million since the start of the year, much of it in small donations through the Web; well over 50,000 supporters were gathering to support him through Meetup.com; and he had won a 44-percent plurality in the straw poll staged by the online liberal activist group MoveOn.org. There was a fevered buzz: Dean, everyone surmised, had ascended into the "first tier" of presidential candidates.

But the buzz largely missed what should be an alarming revelation for Democrats: The Internet may be giving angry, protest-oriented activists the rope they need to hang the party. The vaunted new medium for grassroots political organizing may in fact be contributing to the Iowafication of the nominating process, disproportionately magnifying the voices of the activist groups with the loudest, most combative, and populist voices.

The effect has been like two currents flowing together: Caucuses like Iowa's are briar patches where born and bred activists flourish. They are run according to complex procedures, and they exclude independents. The arrival of the Internet has provided a powerful set of tools for activists to get organized well in advance of the already front-loaded nominating season -- a period when, almost by definition, activists are the only ones focused on politics. Using the Internet, Dean has achieved a virtual mind meld with those activists by capitalizing on their visceral hatred of President Bush and disdain for moderate Democrats. When all is said and done, the new dynamic could lead Democrats right into the hands of President Bush, who wants nothing more than a liberal Democratic opponent....."


Does this not alarm you?
"The Internet may be giving angry, protest-oriented activists the rope they need to hang the party..."

Don't forget "Good Night, Vietnam"






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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. this much is true
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:02 AM by wyldwolf
The Internet may be giving angry, protest-oriented activists the rope they need to hang the party. The vaunted new medium for grassroots political organizing may in fact be contributing to the Iowafication of the nominating process, disproportionately magnifying the voices of the activist groups with the loudest, most combative, and populist voices.

Did we not see that happen? Because Dean supporters spoke the loudest, there was (what turned out to be) a false impression that Dean was the shoe-in to win the nomination, cauceses and primaries be damned. Even now on DU, hardly a week goes by without someone implying the cauceses and primaries were somehow rigged, the reason I can only assume being that Dean was supposed to win because his people made better use of the net and spoke the loudest.

The paragraphs you quoted above were very accurate, but you're misleading. First, you added something into the title of the piece ((their very ugly look at how we were going to ruin the party.) Also, the piece does not slam activists but, rather, discusses how pinning one's hopes completely on internet activism could doom a candidate (Dean, as we saw) and the party as a whole.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. great post, madfloridian.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Thank you. It was time.
Another poster gave me the missing links which had gotten lost on my computer.
:hi:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. what is interesting here is
You title this thread, "The battle and its beginnings early in 2003. The DLC and Dean." Yet the only links in the opening post are from Dean supporters reacting to something you didn't provide.

I'm assuming the piece from the DLC you didn't provide was this:

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&cont...

In this piece, the DLC counseled on the dangers of Democratic presidential candidates speaking only to party activists and that a broad range of exposure was needed.

Howard Dean and his supporters took exception to this passage:

Every time Gov. Dean suggests that unlike his opponents, he represents the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," he's being divisive. Every time he denounces his opponents as "Bush Lite" and suggests that only a Republican would support education reform or stand up for America's interests in the world, he's being divisive. And ironically, he's doing this in a transparent effort to appeal to the same fringe activists who used to do the same holier-than-thou number on him in Vermont.

There is nothing outrageous in this. While governor of VT, Dean often clashed with hardcore left activists over his environmental record, but during his campaign, he courted those some people.

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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. The DLC wouldn't even be an issue...

...if it wasn't for their constant slamming of labor and other groups that have been faithful voters for the Democratic party.

But this does further illustrate the DLC's intent to alienate any group that doesn't share their ideology or support their candidates.

"Extreme and Elitist"?

Senator James Jeffords (I-VT):

"... I am disappointed to see leaders of the Democratic Leadership Council characterize his positions as extreme and elitist, and I call on them to stop their divisive tactics. ... I have heard such charges coming from Republicans most of my political life, but I find it incredible to hear such charges coming from Democrats."

And this is coming from someone who left the folds of the 'new' Republican party that took his former party in a direction similar to what the DLC intends for the Dem party.

The 'divisive', RWing tactics of the DLC reared its ugly head once again when they recently attacked Moore. It has become abundantly clear that they're using the same tactics as the RWingers to smear anyone that gets in the way of their plans to 'transform' the party into GOP-lite.

It's also clear that they FEAR a return of the type of citizen activism that brought down the Vietnam war in the 60s and 70s. They want and need the illegal, aggressive wars in the middle east as much as the Bushies. Why? Because the very corporations that fund their 'third way' organizations are making big bucks off of Iraq and the 'war on terror' in general.

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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting these examples, MF!
The DLC got more desparate, hysterical, and vicious the clearer it became that Dean could raise money and draw large crowds. I still believe Clark was encouraged by the DLC to get in the race, and I wonder why they did not make sure he was refistered as a Dem first.
The DLC and the other candidates obviously ganged up on Dean. Gephardt self-destructed and fell on his sword with his anti-Dean negative ads in Iowa.

I'm sick of losing elections because we give too much weight to the DLC's opinions, maybe it's time to try something new and different like listen to the activists instead of berate them.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I see the attacks are beginning again from both sides.
You are welcome. I tried to be fair.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. And now DFA and Dean support DLC members of Congress
Confusing? Ironic? Hypocritical? I'm not sure which.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Dean gets along great with some of the members of DLC
It's From and Reed, mostly, where the friction occurs. Some DLC members supported Dean in the primaries, so I don't see the problem with him supporting them.
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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. The problem comes him where his supporter hate DLCers
and make posts saying we should purge/vote against them.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. You know, I think you've missed the point of this thread entirely. nt
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. If it's not his supporters problem, why your keen concern?
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 12:35 AM by Tinoire
:shrug:

Consider it charity to the struggling DLC ;) Kind of sad they have to take money from DFA when they're banking on all those corporations behind them. Ah lol, another brilliant outcome of moving to the right- having to accept charity from the Left.

Hope they didn't have to grovel too bad- how embarrassing for the DLC- having to come to the Left for money! How deliciously humiliating. I wonder if they had to ask the Left to help them get out the vote too!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. DLC corporate money drying up....I would imagine.
If you lose, you lose your donors.
I like your post, can't see the OP you are referring to...but I can figure it wasn't nice. :evilgrin:
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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Helping fellow Dems is a good plan
To bad there so many who just don't get it.
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eg101 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. how about an anti-DLC forum for DU?
Corporate influence is the biggest problem with the party, so why not a forum dedicated to ridding the party of corporate fronts like the CLC, teh NDN, etc?
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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yeah lets keep all this crap in one place.
So the rest of us don't have to see in the political discussions on every thread.

The primaries are over people. Dean had a hissy fit with the DLC. He lost. Its done....


For some, those primaries never ended.
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eg101 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You imply I support Dean, I don't support any politician


Howard Dean is a rightwinger. See here:
www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/1668089.ph

I am a leftwinger. Leftwingers don't support rightwing politicians like Dean; That is a job for rightwingers.

I am here to try to raise leftist consciousness and make America a better place, not to help some egotistical, power hungry and obsessed politician accomplish his or her goals.


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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I did not. The original post talked about Dean, I was
supporting your idea and refering to the orginial post.
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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. keep teling yourself that
:puke:

JetCityLiberal
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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Whatever.
I'm sure you had a point. Don't try to hard making it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. Hide Thread Feature. Use it.
No one forces you to post here.

RL
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks MF for all of this and the links...keeping on top of it all!
I've signed every petition and am doing what I can to get Dean for Dem National Chairman. Trying hard...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
30. As usual I get the feeling some are not reading....so a quote.
I thought this was a good thing for Dean to do when the DLC had attacked activists so severely. It was kind, and it showed he will stand up and fight.

SNIP..."The DLC staff can say what they want about me, but they owe an
apology to the 1.3 million members of AFSCME. Our teachers, our health care
workers, and our state and local public servants don't need a lesson from
Washington insiders about the needs and concerns of middle- and
working-class families. What they need is a Democratic Party that will stand
up for them.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. That is so vintage Dean
So right, so true, so damned on target.

Makes me sad all over again.

Great thread, madFl.
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meppie-meppie not Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. ditto! nt
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks MF, for these posts
Don't worry about the ones you can't see, they are just the ususal suspects.

Keep up the good work.

RL
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Thank you.
I am kicking this one more time, lest we forget they do not want to give up power.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kick
MF, you always dig up the most interesting stuff. Thanks for your efforts!

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