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GAspnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:46 PM
Original message
Are Democrats the new conservatives?
There's this idea that a liberal is a progressive. That liberalism is forward-looking and that conservatives provided a useful and necessary brake on moving too fast, too differently.

Like children, liberals embrace every new idea, every new direction. "Over there!," shouts the liberal/progressive. "What's over there?"

Well, the child is father to the man. We've pushed so far, so fast, so successfully, that our playbook was stolen.

The people in charge now are radicals. They believe they can do whatever they want, riding the accelerating wave of technological/economical/social change and directing it towards their goals instead of the peoples'. The so-called conservatives are ripping down society, not with an eye to returning to the past, but with the sole goal of turning it into their idea of the future.

We have to stop them.

We must become the brake on change. Especially this kind of inhuman, debilitating change.

It is time for Democrats to become conservatives. Dig in our heels and resist every minute, every inch, of alteration in things as they are.

True, the world today is not as we envision it or wish it to be. There is much to be done. But every second we dither and try to turn the ship, it goes another foot in the wrong direction. We cannot change its direction for the moment. But we can throw anchors into the water, we can storm the bridge and grab the wheel and keep it from turning.

What say you? Shall Democrats become the New Conservatives?
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davhill Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. We should Conserve what ever we can
Of Libralism before it completely disapears.
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BamaLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreement
We must not let liberalism die. It will be a sad day for America when it does.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes
Let's take a favorite GOP theme--PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Right now, the GOP line is ZERO personal responsibility. There will be NO boobs on TV, NO offensive views, JESUS ONLY because anything else is evil, BIBLICAL laws because us stupid citizens can't take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to worship appropriately, and basically, we are too stupid as a society to change the channel if we do not like what we are seeing, too dumb to not buy that movie ticket to that offensive movie, too lazy to teach our kids so the government has to do it...

The GOP nowadays wants the government to decide how things are done, what we see, what we do, what we hear, and how we think. The GOP thinks we are too stupid to exercise any personal responsibility. Lockstep, my way or the highway.

The OLD Republicans believed in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY--if it is bad for you, don't buy it, if it bothers you, don't subscribe to it, don't watch it, but don't expect the government to accomodate you in favor of the majority.

Nowadays, that's OUR mindset, so I guess we ARE the new GOP!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. been reading Hayek have we?
"That liberalism is forward-looking and that conservatives provided a useful and necessary brake on moving too fast, too differently.

Nice paraphrase from "why I am not a conservative" F A Hayek.

http://www.geocities.com/ecocorner/intelarea/fah1.html

In addition, yes, the Busheviks are actually radicals (its why I use the name, as they are, like the Bolsheviks, all about power) while liberals are attempting to conserve social programs that were instituted to alleviate the vicissitudes of market capitalism.

Liberals need to respond when they are accused of "conservativism" and state the premise of why they want to conserve such programs in the first place. They have to articulate the value system that requires such social commitment, and more important, use rhetorical devices that tie these principles to the good old American values of the social contract.

One can reach back to Roosevelts Four Freedoms for a proper start for the articulation of those values and value system.

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Text/wwt0047

F. D. ROOSEVELT'S "FOUR FREEDOMS" SPEECH
January 6, 1941

TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:

I address you, the Members of the Seventy-Seventh Congress, at a moment unprecedented in the history of the Union. I use the word "unprecedented," because at no previous time has American security been as seriously threatened from without as it is today...

In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

The first is freedom of speech and expression - everywhere in
the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way - everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want - which, translated into world
terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peace time life for its inhabitants -everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear - which, translated into world
terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a
position to commit an act of physical aggression against any
neighbor - anywhere in the world.

Further in the speech

"The basic things expected by our people of their political and economic systems are simple. They are:

"Equality of opportunity for youth and for others. Jobs for those who can work.

"Security for those who need it.

"The ending of special privilege for the few.

"The preservation of civil liberties for all.

"The enjoyment of the fruits of scientific progress in a wider and constantly rising standard of living.

"These are the simple, the basic things that must never be lost sight of in the turmoil and unbelievable complexity of our modern world.

"The inner and abiding straight of our economic and political systems is dependent upon the degree to which they fulfill these expectations.
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GAspnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. damn, beaten to it again
Nope, haven't read Hayek. Just seemed like a good idea. At the time.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Actually, this is the big problem with the Democrats
It seems like for the past 40 years or so, the Democrats have done nothing but defend their past accomplishments.

It's pretty pathetic that the Republican Party has become the party of ideas. Bad ideas, no doubt, but a party of ideas is still better than a party without ideas.

The Democratic Party's greatest accomplishments -- the New Deal and the Great Society -- came when we were willing to challenge the status quo.
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