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Kerry Cheered in Baghdad, Decries Bush Team's 'Blunders'

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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:20 PM
Original message
Kerry Cheered in Baghdad, Decries Bush Team's 'Blunders'


Kerry Cheered in Baghdad, Decries Bush Team's 'Blunders'
By Borzou Daragahi
The San Francisco Chronicle

Thursday 06 January 2005

Once criticized for war stance, he says force alone won't win.

Baghdad - Sen. John Kerry, whose seemingly shifting positions on the U.S. war in Iraq plagued him throughout his presidential campaign, came to this war- torn capital Wednesday to see for himself whether the country was moving toward stability or deeper into chaos.

Kerry, who repeatedly charged during the presidential campaign that President Bush had botched the war effort, was greeted warmly by U.S. soldiers in Baghdad.

"I've been visiting a lot places like Des Moines and Green Bay, and it has been great," the Massachusetts Democrat said during an informal lunch meeting with a small group of reporters and representatives of nongovernmental organizations. "But we are at war, and I think you can't really make all the judgments that you need to make without digging in."

He declined to compare the growing insurgency with the one he faced in South Vietnam as a Navy gunship lieutenant more than three decades ago. But he insisted that superior firepower alone wouldn't quell the uprising disrupting Iraq.

more...



http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010805W.shtml

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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not interested in Kerry
Yawn
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. me neither.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah, the war - like showbusiness - must go on.
What do they call the new operation phoenix ? We know what to call the 'Tonkin resolution' that congress phonied up ...
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Oh ya I forgot...
It's not about solving our nations problems... It's about pipe dreams of overtaking the WH this year.

:eyes:

What's more important, eeking out a diplomatic solution for peace in the middle east or rubbing your butt with a symbolic gesture to make you feel better about the election?

<snip>

Kerry is visiting Iraq as part of a Middle East tour that also includes meetings with leaders in Egypt, Israel and the Palestinian territories. He said success in Iraq was vital as part of the struggle for wider change in the Middle East.

"The stakes are very important, very high, and not just for Iraq," he said. "You have another election in the West Bank, a set of challenges to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the region that are quite daunting."

<snip>
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Name one Palestinian leader that Kerry has met during this "tour"?
Not one! Isn't that strange that the people that American leaders most need to meet with are constantly being ignored. What sort of peace is possible when the only players we meet with are the cruel Israeli oppressors, and the Arab oligarchs?

BTW, did Kerry bothered at all to meet with Israeli peace advocates? For a man that had no qualms about meeting with the Vietcong delegation in Paris, he sure has become quite gun shy about meeting with the advocates for a just peace in the I/P conflict.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. i don't know but he is scheduled to be in the West Bank on Sunday
he met Yasser Arafat the last time he went to the middle east which was before the elections.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Would meeting with potential palestinian candidates effect elections.
A perceived endorsement of any palestinian candidate by any aspect of the US goverment would destory the candidates chances.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. Hmmm.
:hi:
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. funny that Kerry seldom appeared in these types of photos before
when he was Senator before the campaign. And he has been one for fifeen years.

We only saw him occaisonally on TV before that. Now he is the great foreign relations man.

He is a hero,working for us all!

He is shown in many, and yes I will call them "photo ops", and think it more of the same PR shit that envelopes and becomes the irresistable compulsion of any person with high political ambition.

It is obvious he intends to stay in the limelight,although many see it as really a pitch to promote an "image", and that is his response to caving and dumping on all those who worked hard for him and trusted him to stay true to his word.

Whatever your thoughts about his genius and statesman like conduct, I will not get enthused as he has proven that all he seems to care about is his own image and making sure that the photo ops are taken. He does not have the necessary charisma to pull off anything better.

My friend, it is my feeling that he has been operating in the belt way far too long.

Has he said anything or said intense commentary about the Tsunami? I have not seen it if he did.

Sounds like he has the same inept handlers as he did during the campaign and is following the same, ego driven quest to remain in the news, via the photo ops.

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. there are many pics of him out of the country throughout his time in
the senate.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Vector said it best so I'll quote again...


"Kerry could simultaneously save a baby from the jaws of a crocodile with one hand, break Karl Rove's jaw with his other, prepare Coq au Vin with his feet and play "The Star Spangled Banner" on the accordion with his ass cheeks and it wouldn't be good enough for some people."
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Well, you are entitled to your adoration
there was nothing like that evidenced in the campaign, and there is nothing like that evidenced now.

Further, the disguised ad hominem, is indicative of a desperation to avoid the reality.

No propping up of this failed candidate can restore his credibility, or his trustworthiness after his abandonment.

He is toastworthy as far as I am concerned. I am not inclined to bestow sainthood on any candidate, and especially those who do not show their sincerity or live up to their promises.

You can have him adore him, prop him up--he is a loser, in my mind.

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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Not Adoration
just placing my bet on the best odds for improvement.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. It's realistic
appreciation of a great man. Which is way preferred to senseless bashing and name-calling based on unfair and inaccurate nonsense, and displaced abandonment issues.

But you're entitled to your hate.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
59. That's great. Absolutely hilarious.
And so true. Some people here continue to bash Senator Kerry even now.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Abandonment issues...
truly sad.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. Me either. He STILL hasn't figured out that the war was WRONG!
How dense can you be?
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Rican1 Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kerry won the military vote
At least according to my cousin who is in the guard in Iraq
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. the results of military votes which were reported in some precincts
had Kerry winning them.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. He did.
That's why we haven't heard that reported by any news media. The figure hasn't been released, but I too have friends over there, and not only did Kerry win, but the resentment toward Bush is growing like a cancer with our troops. The consensus is that he couldn't show his face there right now.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Can we get those numbers out
If Kerry really did win the military vote it would be great to get that out, to help fight many of the ideas about Democrats being anti-military.

I'd highlight these numbers, and also point out that the areas most at risk from terrorist attacks (the coasts, big cities) voted for Kerry, despite the number of people who supported Bush nation-wide believeing he was better at fighting terrorism (one of the biggest lies of all time).
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. That might be a challenge...
As they figures were never released. This is what is actually the most convincing bit. As we know, if the military vote favored Bush, Faux Snooze and all the MSM would be all over it like white on rice, repeating it 24-7 at the top of their lungs. This particular demographic is the one that has never been reported. By anyone.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. not true, there were precincts that reported the results of military votes
and Kerry won the military votes in those areas that have been reported so far.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. I wouldn't even bother with this one...
We all know Kerry got the military vote.
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DaedelusNemo Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
109. Which ones? We need links! /nt
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. There's an unusual aroma on this thread...
No military veteran. NONE? NOT ONE? REALLY?
Rasmussen lied?
HAH.
Wow. Do you realize how unrealistic that might be?
My father is a veteran. He voted for Kerry.
There's one.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
90. I'm a veteran and I voted for Kerry
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. Thank you!
You and millions of others.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #90
107. Me, too
And I am more than a vet, I was a CAREERIST. If anyone should have been "tainted" it would be me, myself! And I have many friends with my same experience who feel the same way.

The sense many have about how the military feel is very dated, I fear. A lot of people are stuck in the Reagan-military mindset, and it just does not apply.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #107
123. Thank you both for your service...
Maybe you guys ought to talk with MissBrooks...she's worried about the soldiers over in Iraq and what they might be thinking right now.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #57
124. My Father (Air Force Vet) Also Voted For Kerry AND....
Stands on the corner of Laurel Canyon Blvd. & Ventura Blvd every Friday night with a Bring Out Troops Home Now sign, with other vets.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
104. EXCUSE ME????
ADM Gunn, Gen Shalikashvili, and well over a dozen other flag and general officers...veterans, all....supported Kerry.

Bring facts to the table if you want to make a point.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. This troll has been tombstoned.
Long gone!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. Well, then, I shall forget my troubles, c'mon get happy! n/t
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Yippeeee!
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 11:21 PM by Vektor
So you're from MA, huh? I used to be. Born in New Bedford, lived in Westport most of my young life.

Live in CA now. Have Boxer, but miss Kerry.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:23 PM
Original message
You've got two good 'uns, just like we do in MA n/t
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
116. I guess you're right.
I don't miss the MA winters, but EVERYTHING else about it I do.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. We had another blizzard today...n/t
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. I am not surprised!!
I am homesick, though. :-(
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. How much of the military is the guard?
I suspect that people in the National Guard who were called up (but joined for reasons having nothing to do with this sort of military action) feel different than others in the military.

Anyone have any stats on how many of them in Iraq are there from various types of back door drafts?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
130. I'm A Veteran - I Voted For Kerry
eom
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Don't care
He should have done something like that DURING the presidential campaign, not after it ended.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. "He declined to compare the growing insurgency with the one he faced in...
He declined to compare the growing insurgency with the one he faced in South Vietnam

Still trying to play it safe, Senator? Your timidity will merely enable Bush to continue with the brutal occupation in Iraq, and will add to the number of dead and wounded on both sides of this criminal war.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. So you clicked on a Kerry headline to say you aren't interested in Kerry?
:eyes:

Thank you, thoughtanarchist, for posting this, as many us are interested in Kerry and what is going on in the Middle East. Those who "aren't" interested needn't click on the headlines.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I'll continue to post these...
as Kerry brings us a feasable point of exit from Iraq.

:bounce:
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thank you...
..it seems a little suspect that people would go out of their way to click on any news headline involving Kerry just to promote how much they don't like him.

Most of us want to hear the news from the Middle East, so please keep it up.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. It just seems a little pointless...
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 06:09 PM by Vektor
maybe even deliberately mean spirited to chime in with how much you dislike the man, without saying anything constructive about the news article. I'm sorry, but it just seems like some people go out of their way to cast an insult, just to be mean...when they don't want to discuss the headlines. I have no "requirements", but it is sort of frowned upon to hijack a legitimate news thread with baseless attacks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Deleted message
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I read the whole story....every time. Without fail. Twice. Do you?

I go over every article with a fine toothed comb before talking about it.

I didn't accuse you of hijacking the thread. I said that people do it. It happens all the time.

I had a hunch there was bad blood from the primaries. That's usually the case. Most of the people that just flame Kerry every chance they get soon reveal themselves to be Deaniacs with a grudge.


*Not that all Deaniacs do this, but the ones that do, often praise Dean from the rafters, then bash Kerry...hating Kerry is like a prerequisite.*

Many Deaniacs feel no need to do this, I'd add.

Why does that bad blood need to be? I like both of these men. You don't have to debase one to elevate the other. It's great to have both of these strong men in the party. It's not like in order to like one, you have to hate the other.

And Paul Wellstone was indeed a true hero.

I can't help it, it just seems deliberately mean to go out of your way to pop in and say "I never liked him." Like you are just looking for an opportunity to say something cruel. And, no, you were not the first to jump in and do that, granted you were just agreeing with someone else.

Forgive me for not being able to understand the rationale in slaughtering a person, just because they are not your first pick.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Grip, you say?
I'm not the one with displaced rage issues over Dean losing the primaries.

I already told you, (hello, knock knock!) that I read every article twice.

OR DID YOU NOT READ THAT?

In fact, didn't you say you "just chimed in?!?!" Let me check. Yeah. Exactly. Your words dear. You didn't just "pop" in. You chimed in. After seeing the headline on the front page.

Riiiiight.

I'd love to continue this discussion, but it's clear I am attempting to have a rational exchange with an irrational individual.


Go ahead and have fun in your little hate bubble.
:hi:

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. it's not a Dean supporter, it's a freeper troll claiming to support Dean
check out it's posts.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Well yeah...ya think?
That's how you weed out the little buggers. Ask them a few questions and get a panic attack in return with absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand...

"So, tell me about your love of Mr. Dean..."

"Uhh"....*mangle a quote from the other person and change the subject quickly* and ....then...THE BASELESS ATTACK!!*

Smoke em out!

You see how there were three initial posters on the thread who claimed to not be Kerry supporters? So, I posted a general question as to why they stopped by, and one of them latched on like a rabid badger. The other two just went on their merry way.

Then, the rabid one's attacks deteriorated into gibberish. The other two, probably just genuine Duers who aren't Kerry fans went about their business.

But the badger continued to gnaw...maniacally....

Operation Smokeout is complete.

Give em enough rope, just give em enough rope.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Step away from the bottle, Lena.
Put down the NRA pamphlet.

Look at how the angry freeplet attacks when cornered!

Oooohhh...you swore at me. I'm SOOOOOOO WOUNDED!

I considered your little opinion so valid!!

See what I mean? Works everytime.

NEXT.

P.S. "FOAD,"???






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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
94. Geez, I'm gonna miss her!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #60
81. Deleted message
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Really?
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 10:20 PM by Vektor
I OWNED YOU!

Um, n/t means "no text."

"READ" is text.

Duh. Did you say dense?

Start with "My Pet Goat" and work your way up the reading ladder, darling.

Edited for an extra slice of love:

P.S. You probably did not need two commas after "God." One is sufficient. Nice try though! A bronze star for you! Just like the one war hero John Kerry got for pulling Jim Rassmann out of the water.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. I find it suspect as well...
Why gnaw your own foot when your fridge is full?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. Deleted message
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. Have you been drinking? n/t
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. hmmm.
no reasoned discourse, just an attack.

:hi:
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. A method we've seen before.
You've got mail.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. For trolls and disruptors, yes ma'am!
That's indeed the norm.
Odd has two D's. Not three.
Have fun at FreeRepublic!
:hi:
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. Oh, Vektor - A pleasure to watch you in action!
You pick 'em off while everyone else (me) is is still scratching their heads, muttering 'huh..WTF?!'. Accuracy, speed & excellent aim!
Next one in line, step up!
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Thank you!! It's a talent I have.
I can smell their stench from a mile away.

I honed this skill on the Official Kerry blog. It was very purist - nothing but Kerry lovers...that's how I cut my teeth in the world of troll bashing...they stood out like sore thumbs. They came in with many methods, and we learned to spot them all.


It's a little muddier here. Some folks have genuine reasons for not liking a particular politician or another, and you can totally talk to those people, and see that they ARE progressives, and they do support the cause, but they disagree with you on some things. And that is OK. It's healthy.

But when someone comes in here claiming to "hate Kerry" because they "love Dean" so much, but when asked to talk about Dean starts yelling "fuck you, you twit" it's pretty obvious what the deal really is.

I respect debate, but have very little tolerance for bull. If these trolls want to match wits, let em' try.

This last one was merely a light workout.


:spank:
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #87
100. .
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Thank you
All these senseless attacks on Kerry here are getting rather tedious. They just play into Rove's strategies to make the Republicans a permenent majority party.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. agreed.
no need to put poison in our own pestle
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Greeted warmly
These soldiers apparently never heard Bush's attacks claiming Kerry doesn't support the troops. :)
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. Or mabe the troops HAVE heard these attacks...
and they know better from their experience.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. True
I was being a bit sarcastic in saying that they haven't heard the attacks. Most likely many hard the attacks on Kerry and rejected them.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. yup
It's a slightly different perspective when you are under fire.

Our troops are far from stupid. They know they need an out and they know who is more likely to help make it so.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent
This kind of coverage really bothers Bush the boy king. Bush couldn't even let Clinton walk out of the Clinton Library before him.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. To Dam Late!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Now he goes to see for him self. We have been had people!
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. We've been bad people? Can you elaborate? -eom
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. Conservatives view this differently
I stumbled across this blog:

http://www.lucianne.com/threads22.asp?artnum=191849

They just can't believe the soldiers cheered Kerry. Their conservative brainwashing won't allow them to acknowledge reality.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Independent
Even though I voted for Kerry, in reality it was a vote AGAINST BUSH. Mickey Mouse would have gotten my vote over Bush. Maybe, the Iraqis/soldiers feel the same?
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. At first I felt that way too...
Until I did research into how this he operates.

The BCCI investigation alone gave me undying respect for this man.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
128. but why didn't he ever bring that up?!
he was instrumental in the dismantling of "The Terrorist's Bank", yet never once was that fact brought up during the campaign. Instead, he and his handlers allowed him to be painted as soft on terrorism. Can somebody please answer this question?
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
77. Remember -
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 09:58 PM by Vektor
Kerry's one of them. The SwiftMaggots may have strewn a bunch of shitty lies about him, but the fact of the matter is, he did serve bravely and honorably in Vietnam, (after volunteering to go) and Shrub and Cheney did not. These soldiers know a couple of chicken-hawks when they see them. No matter what scuzzy tactics the Repukes might use to try to discredit Kerry's service, the fact is, Kerry volunteered to enlist and Shrub and Dick wimped out - but still sent our soldiers over there to die in their greedy war for oil.

And the soldiers know that.
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propagandafreegal Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. I wonder what is Kerry's Agenda now? What purpose does his
going to Bagdhad serve? If he is keeping it percolating for 2008 think again.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. To quote thoughtanarchist, if I may...
"Kerry is visiting Iraq as part of a Middle East tour that also includes meetings with leaders in Egypt, Israel and the Palestinian territories. He said success in Iraq was vital as part of the struggle for wider change in the Middle East.

"The stakes are very important, very high, and not just for Iraq," he said. "You have another election in the West Bank, a set of challenges to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the region that are quite daunting."

I think it's a little early to be campaigning for 2008. Chances are, he's just being a Senator who is concerned about the state of affairs in the Middle East, doing his job.

That should be his agenda.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. Doing his job as member of the Foreign Relations committee
I think he's "wintersoldiering" myself.

Testimony to follow.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. What's REALLY nice to see is her Kerry supporter site.
She is a real bud.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You are right
He could not possible be doing anything to bring about any diplomatic solutions to the quagmire in Iraq. Certainly the troops do not need any Senators meddling into their business. Even if he was doing something that is desperately needed, it would just be a shallow attempt to get the anonymous contributors at DU to endorse him in 2008.

:boring:
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. I think the agenda is to procure the exit strategy
that the * admin cannot or will not pursue.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. That sure would have come in handy a few months ago
when the media was asking him how his views on Iraq differed from the Bush Administration's.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Since it's such a freekin' mess in Iraq...
I guess it comes in handy anytime.
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. The media mob organized a crucifixion
for each new statement K made on Iraq.

It got to the point that kerry had to keep repeating the same message even as conditions changed to keep the dogs at bay.

With all of the shouting of "handing our sovereignty over to the UN" from Hate Media he couldn't even articulate a plan for a diplomatic solution without getting blasted for being "soft on terror"

Our memories are too short sometimes...
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Yup...
And people are actually calling this a photo op.

Riiiight.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
69. Robin Williams was cheered in Iraq...
...and he wasn't even running for office.

I'm tired of these photo opportunities from politicians who care more about their careers than democracy.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Um...yeaaahh...
I wish they'd stop risking life and limb to bravely enter war-torn hell holes to greet our armed forces!! And just to be photographed!

The nerve!!!

Next thing you know they will be running into burning buildings to save babies!!!

Ahem.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #72
88. He voted for that 'war-torn hell hole'.
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 10:22 PM by Q
It's not bravery to exploit it after the fact. If he wanted to show how 'brave' he is he could admit that he made a mistake and tell the people the truth: that the war on terror isn't being fought in Iraq and 'they' shouldn't have attacked in the first place.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #88
105. See #85
It wasn't that simple...what was voted on and what Shrub-hole did were two totally different things.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Al Franken was cheered too. And Al and Robin made them laugh, which is a
very noble thing. Al's USO troupe even had to stop the performance twice for incoming mortar fire.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
70. Will Kerry be able to have any effect on Foreign Policy
In this administration? I wouldn't think so. But maybe he can shadow the Bush in the press and undermine Bush's foreign and national policies. This is what Gore should have done after '00 but didn't. If Kerry pulls it off effectively he may have a chance in '08. But this is the only way he'll have another shot at the presidency in my opinion.

For this to work he is going to have to be very tough on the current administration and push alternative policies from the senate floor.
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Senator Lamb Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Kerry is doing the right thing
Im glad Kerry went to Iraq and other places in the middle east. i felt Al Gore made a mistake in dropping off the face of the earth. although Kerry made some mistakes in the campaign and wasnt mr.charisma, i felt deep down he was a genuine good guy. i hope the democrats try to create a shadow or alternate government to combat the GOP. i also dont know why there is so much kerry hate on this board. its disturbing.

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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. Gore should have done that? He was a private citizen, remember?
He didn't have a senate job to go back to.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Gore Should have been more outspoken publicly.
Your right though he didn't have the advantage that Kerry has of being in the Senate. I hope Kerry takes that opportunity and fights hard. If he doesn't I'll be disappointed.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. And Kerry does...
Which is why he is in the middle East. Senators on foreign relations committees just have to do that stuff. It's their job. Kerry has always participated in fact-finding and foreign relations missions to other nations, especially those whom we have strained relationships with. He has proved himself to be a very effective negotiator.

He is always the one that goes in to repair things, after a Republican president has screwed things up. Read some of his biographies as well as his book entitled "The New War" if you haven't had the chance to...it seems he is forever cleaning up after corrupt and inept administrations.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. Gore did one thing that Kerry didn't. He took the slings and arrows
for 36 days. They tore him to ribbons. It was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. But, damn, I respect him for that.

Yes, it was a different situation; Gore won the popular vote.

Personally, I agree with the Kerry people in that I don't think we can prove fraud or make a difference in the outcome, but I'm bitterly disappointed that John Kerry, the de facto leader of our party, has basically let everyone else do the heavy lifting, while keeping his own hands clean. I think he should have been standing with Boxer and Tubbs-Jones and Conyers and all the others. He could have recused himself (and should), but show that he is supporting our party's efforts to get to the bottom of the problems.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #86
96. On some points,
I would disagree, but I totally appreciate your reasonable, sensible discussion and the way you can make your point without resorting to childish attacks. I respect that - it shows maturity. We could use more of that on this board. :-)

I personally think Kerry is doing whatever he reasonably can, under the circumstances, but I too wish it were more. Truth be known, I wish he could carry Shrub kicking and screaming out of the White House and toss him in the dirt.

I am glad Kerry is working on foreign relations matters, and I do see the merit in excusing himself, and making this "not about him," but about Democracy. If he legitimately believes (which he may) that at this time, they cannot prove Shrub didn't win, then he is doing the right thing. I hate to see the Repukes get away with this crap again, however. Judging from his past investigations as a Senator, I have faith he will continue to look into matter regarding election fraud. I've been following his career for a while now, and he always manages to have a plan. He's pretty clever that way. I don't say this out of "hope" or "wishful thinking" but years of experience.

We'll see.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:47 PM
Original message
As for Kerry, I really hope you're right.
And thank you for the kind words.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
103. You are very welcome...
...and I hope so too. He's a smart guy, and we need him in our corner.
:fingers crossed:
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. I think he should have been present too
But I'm going to be real interested to see what he does in the next few months in the senate. Is he going to kick ass and take names or is he going to be in the background.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. A lot of people do...
...and I understand that. I wish he had been present, but understand why he wasn't, if that makes sense. (???)

I totally see the point of those who wanted him here. I quite frankly am worried about him being in Iraq anyway. It seems rather dangerous.

But being on the Senate floor with all those snarling Repukes is probably dangerous too!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
126. But how did Gore taking the slings and arrows ultimately help us
I'm not denegrating his fight, but in the end, what did we get?

We need Kerry in the party leading for the next 4 years. We didn't need him to be part of the joke. I'm glad he's still alive politically. If we destroy ourselves now, we will be doing just what the Rightist wingnuts want.

(I've decided to use Rightist -- as there are good Republicans who don't appreciate being identifed with the neocon agenda)

It was all about what we could have hoped to accomplish. We were never, never going to flip the election. We need to highlight the problems and get people to agree that something needs to be done about them.

My brother kept saying "Whoop dee do, so they challenged. It didn't mean anything. We had fraud in Milwaukee too. We were closer than Ohio. We could have challenged, but since Bush won, there was no point." I asked him to explain what fraud. He said there were double votes and such. I think he's been listening to too much Conservative radio again, since they accused the Dems here of fraud with little or no proof. I'm sure my brother's allegations were part of that game.

So we could play that up, I think. Tell the Republicans that we will be protecting them as well as us if we fix the vote. We just can't let them fix the vote for us.

Anyway, I still see Kerry as a man fighting, just not fighting exactly where and when people want. He's chosen the war for this moment. I was impressed that he was blasting Bush right in the middle of Iraq. Good for him.

The problem is he's still not getting covered. How can we change that. I'm ready to write the NYT and ask why they're not covering him.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. It helped us because many didn't see Bush as legitimate
everybody knows he was chosen by the Supreme Court. It's a fact, it can't be disputed or nuanced away.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. Thank you for the Book Recommendation
I'll have to get it. But just from a political strategy perspective. Kerry is going to have to do more than quietly clean up messes. I know this is not his style but he is going to have to bold in the Senate if he wants another shot at the White House. He is basically going to have to "Kick the Bush administration in the balls and make them spit justice".
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. I'd like to see that!!
"Kick the Bush administration in the balls and make them spit justice".

YEAH!

Also, "The New War" is eerie, especially chapter six, about terrorism. With almost Nostradamus-like precision, Kerry mentions what he fears might happen in America if we continue to allow our relationship with Islamic fundamentalists to fester - and what sort of grand scale attack might be coming if those warnings of attacks and further unrest are ignored. I got chills reading it.

He wrote it in 1997.
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MissBrooks Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
82. I've read several accounts of his visit...
And one says he was boo'ed and the other said he was cheered.
Has anyone seen a tape? I'd like to see it for myself to find out the truth.

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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Realistically...
...there is probably some of both. Some of these die-hard neocons just don't get it. They think Shrub is God. By all accounts, the majority of those stationed over there know * has screwed them. The fact that the military vote demographic hasn't been released speaks volumes.
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MissBrooks Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #91
121. I ran into someone yesterday who just returned from Iraq
He is in the reserves and was there for months. I don't know exactly how long.

But, he said he really wanted to go back. I was surprised! He said that they all believed in what they were doing there and he wanted to go back as soon as possible.

I was really shocked.



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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. Hmmm...
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 12:09 AM by Vektor
Really? Where did you run into him? Where was he stationed? What were his actual duties? What branch is he in? I have heard very conflicting reports, but depending on what he was doing...he may have a different opinion of the whole thing than many others have. No one I know in direct combat is too thrilled. Depending on how cushy his job is (or isn't)...his opinion might be very different from the average sodier.

How do you know the guy? Just asking, because sometimes you have to be very close to a person before they tell you how they really feel about things. A casual acquaintance might give you the bright side, because no soldier wants to come back and say "it's a sinkhole over there, we're screwed." That'll just scare people.

Also, there is a certain sense of pride that service people feel about what they do...even if the admin. is full of shit. The troops usually have noble intentions, despite what trechery and lies the Chimp in Chief is up to...

Though I haven't heard anyone say that they are loving it over there.
I've heard nothing but "why the hell are we here, Bush LIED."

At least your friend is able to keep a positive attitude in the face of all this carnage. That probably helps his psychological well-being tremendously.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. Really? I have two nephews there and their units want to come home
one is in the Marines, and the other is career Army. Many of my dad's buddies at the VFW have kids there and they say the same thing. They are stressed out, under-supplied, and home sick. Iraq is a clusterfuck of the highest magnitude. The troops' morale is in the toilet-I think you ran into a rare exception.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
85. The troops should remember that Kerry voted for this insane war
and had an deluded plan about ending it.

We have lost Iraq. It's just a matter of when we'll be pushed out.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. He voted
for force as an absolute last resort. He did not vote for this impulsive invasion. Bush did not follow the legislature as it was submitted.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #89
108. Yes, his only error was that
he just couldn't believe that ANYONE could have possibly fucked it up as badly as weecowboy did. I mean, really, one would hope that someone who had the benefit of a full staff of advisors would come to a halfway decent decision...who could have thought that weecowboy's ENTIRE CREW would be a bunch of fecking 'morans' at the end of the day!

The only problem those who voted for the resolution had was that the assumed the nitwit had half a brain. They thought the best, not the worst.

Oh well, to quote weecowboy, "Fooled me once, won't git fooled agin!"
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. Didn't he use that exact quote, too?
HAHAHA

that he didn't expect Bush to "fuck it up" as badly as he did?

I get a tingly feeling when Kerry says "fuck."

He should use this language more often.
:-)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. He did--Rolling Stone interview n/t
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. I have that issue.
It was quoted in Mother Jones, too

Double tingle.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #110
125. Bless him
I think his language is genuine. But it doesn't seem right coming out of his mouth. How can someone BE sincere without sometimes APPEARING sincere. Like the "man" in his "You watch, man, I'll have yours."

I think it's his shyness, meself.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
114. President Kerry...whether the freepers like it or not
I think that more people will find Kerry to be more endearing and see that he is on the side of the American people as time goes on.

People now see that Bush REALLY was a liar and a chickenhawk wuss. Or they soon will.

I suspect the usual limp-thought suspects will diss Kerry no matter what he does in the future.

They remind me of what would have happened if Van Gogh had had some nagging, controlling girlfriend who told him his painting sucked and he should take up accounting.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. LMAO! Zukch, that was worth staying up this late for!
:bounce:
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #114
119. Amen.
Sums it up beautifully.
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