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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:49 AM
Original message
Is Armstrong Williams just the tip of the iceberg ?
Yes, as some Senators have noted, it is illegal to spend taxpayer money to promote an Adminsitration aggenda - any Administration. However, we must ask, is Armstrong Williams the only person paid to shill for this Adminsitration?? That is highly doubtful in this citizen's mind.

There needs to be a "bi-partisan" investigation to find out the truth about these illegal practices. However, there is one thing we know about George W Bush. He believes that money can buy anything. It can buy the presidency and it can buy loyalty. Money talks and bullshit walks.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Of course it is.
Armstrong Williams is the only one stupid enough to brag about it and get caught.

But, I doubt anyone thinks it stops at Armstrong Williams.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. How do we find the ones who were paid through private money?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Anne "the man" Coulter Comes To Mind!
eom
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. yes, she is a grand propaganda mouthpiece but does the WH pay her?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Richard Mellon Scaife - 'nuff Said
eom
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Bingo! We have a winner!
He's one of several legs holding this proverbial stool (so to speak!) upright.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. One of the RW "think tanks" does, and they are at least tax-exempt.
It's in "The Republican Noise Machine."
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Take a look at those with ties to the RW think tanks.
The Heritage Foundation and the like.

While Brock never makes the connection in "Noise," he certainly makes some connections that with a bit more investigation could lead to that.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. Check the laws
In some states, if a corporation takes taxpayer money, they are subject to FOIA requests regarding that money.

What state is this ad agency in? Also, any "branches" of the corporation.

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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. The first thing I thought of when I heard
this was "hmmmm... wonder who ELSE is on the payroll..."

He committed the one unforgivable sin in the republi-CON catechism: Thou Shalt Not Get Caught. If anything, it's their Twelvth Commandment. I'd be willing to bet he's merely the one we know about.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Past evidence suggests the media is managed.
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 08:59 AM by tasteblind
There are several ways to do it. The war coverage is managed by not allowing people to see things that are inconvenient. Anyone who has seen Control Room will know about this.

Every now and then someone comes through and breaks the taboo, and gets appropriately reamed in the papers for it. Jon Stewart's turn on Crossfire comes to mind.

The CIA has been accused of trying to infiltrate the media in the past. I'm not sure of whether or not this happened, but damned if the media don't seem to all be on the same page about who does and doesn't get on tv, what viewpoints can and can't be expressed, and what the major story of the day is, even when you would think something else was more important.

Unfortunate? Yes. Shocking? Sadly, not really.

Nothing shocks me anymore with these people, which is probably how they like it. There is an air of inevitability in the way they effortlessly seem to destroy this fine nation.

edited for typo
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AlamoDemoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Judith Miller comes to mind
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Hell yes.
It's that or she's under some mind control program.

I'd love to see us target her for a firing from the NYT.

That would get the others to shiver a bit in their boots.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Who paid for Judy Miller's little trip to Iraq
to look for those phantom WMD's right after the invasion?

Not to mention the military escort who had to take her wherever she wanted to go and kiss her royal ass?

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. I wonder who sent down the order
to allow Judith Miller free reign over an entire Army Unit to go running around Iraq on her wild goose chase? She might not have been paid by the WH, but someone high up allowed a civilian to control a unit in a war zone. She put everyone she was with in danger because she didn't have a clue.


Embedded Reporter's Role In Army Unit's Actions Questioned by Military

June 25, 2003


New York Times reporter Judith Miller played a highly unusual role in an Army unit assigned to search for dangerous Iraqi weapons, according to U.S. military officials, prompting criticism that the unit was turned into what one official called a "rogue operation."

More than a half-dozen military officers said that Miller acted as a middleman between the Army unit with which she was embedded and Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi, on one occasion accompanying Army officers to Chalabi's headquarters, where they took custody of Saddam Hussein's son-in-law. She also sat in on the initial debriefing of the son-in-law, these sources say.

Since interrogating Iraqis was not the mission of the unit, these officials said, it became a "Judith Miller team," in the words of one officer close to the situation.

<snip>

The MET Alpha team was charged with examining potential Iraqi weapon sites in the war's aftermath. Military officers critical of the unit's conduct say its members were not trained in the art of human intelligence -- that is, eliciting information from prisoners and potential defectors. Specialists in such interrogations say the initial hours of questioning are crucial, and several Army and Pentagon officials were upset that MET Alpha officers were debriefing Hussein son-in-law Jamal Sultan Tikriti.

"This was totally out of their lane, getting involved with human intelligence," said one military officer who, like several others interviewed, declined to be named because he is not an authorized spokesman. But, the officer said of Miller, "this woman came in with a plan. She was leading them. . . . She ended up almost hijacking the mission."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28385-2003Jun...

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Does anyone think FOX may have someone on the payroll ??
I would not be surprised.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Or what if those who OWN Fox are on the 'payroll'?
So-called journalists report what they're told to report...or told to find another job. It seems there are many in our society willing to trade loyality to America for a big fat paycheck.

The film 'OutFoxed' showed that many media outlets were purchased by the Fox 'network' and then forced to report only the 'good news' about Bush, Republican party and the Iraq war. Those who refused or had objections were told to go elsewhere.

Well-paid talking head pundits on nearly ALL cable networks are not necessarily paid directly by the White House...but they ARE paid by the network owners that are beholden to Bush and his cronies.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I would not be surprised if Roger Ailes were paid directly....
out of the WH slush fund...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Or through one of the RW think tanks--we need to follow THEIR funding,
I suspect.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Those who own Fox are PAYING the payroll.
The return they get is deregulation, etc. which allows them to purchase more stations and such.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. It isn't a huge stretch. Broken record time again, but if this has your
goat, as it should, please read "The Republican Noise Machine."

Brock is onto something. I suggest we follow Media Matters on this issue.

Somthing's going to break, I just feel it.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. Whaddya mean "someone"? How 'bout EVERYBODY???
That whole network is probably on the payroll. If not directly from the White House, then from its many front organizations and under-the-table support systems. Like the wrong-wing think-tanks and more.

Here's a MOST intriguing DU thread well worth revisiting (certainly worth 240-grand):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I used to work in the same radio station complex as a guy named Chuck Ashman (I believe he's dead now), who fancied himself as a muck-raker and talk show cage-rattler. Sometimes he was just a rattlesnake. But he never shied away from controversy, and dirt, and scams and stuff, be they in government or the private sector. And he ALWAYS said "follow the money." I think Deep Throat may have said that, too.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. My thoughts exactly - and these are things they can't blame
the left for. I watched in amazement yesterday as he made the rounds. He seems very-very nervous. I would be too.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think he expected to be defended by O'Reilly and Scarborough
..and he was shocked that they were ready to jump down his throat. Must have been a total surprise to him?
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Al Franken was on Tweety last nite talking about
the rw talk shows and how they blantantly lie. For instance, rush said that most minimum wage jobs were held by teenagers and the FACTS prove that 60% are held by people over 20. Info is on a government web site. Noone calls them on it!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. Good point. He was sure they'd circle the wagons around him,
since, after all, he is "one of them." But he's small-time to those guys. They're not gonna do squat for him. They're gonna do the high-and-mighty "I'm SO OUTRAGED!" dance and throw us all a bone and make us think they're being sensible and ethical for a change. They're probably hoping by doing so that it'll go away before people start asking too many questions, and getting too many dangerous ideas, and start following some of the money trails. Besides, THEY sure don't want to get outed too, now, do they?

What they fear most is if people keep asking - "I wonder who ELSE is on the payroll?" - and then attempting to follow up on that and dig up a few answers.

This could be the tip of a VERY LARGE iceberg. Maybe a polar ice cap.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. This requires an appointed independent prosecutor to investigate.
The Democratic Party needs to follow the lead of Barbara Boxer and standup for America. This is above just party politics as it undermines the foundation of a free and open democracy in our country.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. 1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE to Capitol Hill Switchboard. CALL
YOUR REPS about this! The Boxer Rebellion need not fizzle.

First. Thing. Monday. Morning.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. Perhaps it would be better
to follow what the United States Constitution calls for in these cases: the House of Representatives is given the right and responsibility to initiate investigations into cases of illegal activity in the executive branch.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. For those who've read "The Republican Noise Machine," this comes as
no big surprise. The only surprise is that it's hit the Administration Stenography Staff (press).

For those who've read the book, it isn't all that crazy to consider that the "outing" of the CIA agent could have come at taxpayer expense. I kid not.

We need to seriously look into the practices of the RW stink tanks.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. What broke this story?
How did this travesty come to light????
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. To answer my own question...
... "The administration's arrangement with Williams was first reported by USA TODAY based on documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request."

What a world. USA TODAY? This is progress, folks :)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Say goodbye to the FOIA.
We need to be vigilant about FOIA.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Man..
... (or woman), you got that right. The FOIA seems to be one of our only allies in this game.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Woman, for future reference! nt
:hi:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Sorry...
... your username would tend to indicate woman but I've learned to make no assumptions around here :)

I was sure surprised to read that USA Today broke this tho- that is very encouraging.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Brit Hume?
He's been a close friend of the Bush family for years? Is he getting a little money on the side??
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jrthin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Sometimes it's not the money,
which can possible be traced. Sometimes it's the opportunities offered which can yield far more than payment in dollars.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. True. There are MANY kinds of currency beyond just cash.
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 06:32 PM by calimary
There's access. Perks. Perception of GREAT power and influence - that's worth MANY times its weight in gold-pressed latinum.

There's protection, promises of presidential pardons, the ability to silence an opponent or discredit or throw him/her out of work (or maybe run into trouble in a small airplane?). Insider tips. Guaranteed promotions or positions waiting for them on luxury corporate boards, invitations to join secret and highly exclusive societies and cabals where you can rub elbows with an ungodly number of impressive international movers and shakers, secret bank accounts (think: the Caymans and Switzerland). Lots of corners can be cut... Lots of "regulators" can be looking the other way... Lots of files or incriminating paper trails that can be "disappeared" OR cosmetically enhanced... desertion documents (AWOL?) or dishonorable discharges and bankruptcies and tax evasion and check-kiting and other white collar crimes that can just mysteriously be "taken care of" in nicely-scrubbed files and permanent records... There's all kinds of stuff.
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jrthin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. You got it.
Excellent, the many ways you noted payment is made.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
28. That is exactly what I was thinking when I woke up this morning
how many other pudits have the repukes been paying? Rush, Hannity, Novak?
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. I've thought since 2000 (or before) that Bush was either paying off
or intimidating journalists (either physical threats or, more likely, threats to block their access to the Administration).
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. This HAS been going on. Intimidation is all over the place.
From Jack Welch hanging out in the NBC news room during the 2000 election to Katie Couric getting a memo from "upstairs" warning her about the displeasing "tone of voice" she used during an interview with some White House higher-up. Michael Moore told this story about a brief conversation they had after she finished interviewing him. When he stated, on the air, that the press was being intimidated, she murmured to him, after they'd taken their mikes off, that he was SO right - she'd gotten this memo from the NBC brass, who were responding to a phone call from the vice president's office. Apparently cheney or one of his senior operatives had called in a complaint. And their pets at NBC immediately rolled over like good little doggies.

You lose access, in Washington, and you lose everything. Including your job. And what was the quote I remember - from the scared reporters who said they had mortgages to pay and three kids in private school so they didn't dare rock the boat. And Helen Thomas - the DEAN of the White House Press Corps, like maybe, for a factor of DECADES - was banished to the back of the room for asking too many annoying questions and follow-ups. Soon enough, she not only had lost her front-row seat but her vocal cords. You didn't hear her called upon again. For a LONG time. AND to add insult to injury, NOBODY in the White House Press Corps (or maybe make that Corpse) spoke out against this, or stuck up for her.

YES it happens. And that's just ONE of the ways.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. I'd bet the farm on it. People CAN be bought.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. I would bet my life on it!
and if our side doesn't get busy aggressively aquiring media and media exposure to counter them, we are F*&#@%d.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
39. We need to have a DEMOCRATIC investigation. Any repukes in it will make
the investigation worthless.

What we need is and HONEST investigation. Repukes have proven time and again that they are neither honest or trustworthy. Not a single one.

And, unfortunately, some DINOs too.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is at least the third time the Bush administration has violated
the federal law prohibiting spending taxpayer money on propaganda. The GAO already has issued reports finding such violations of law concerning the first two occasions, one of which concerned the Medicare prescription drug benefit and the other of which concerned drug use among young people. Here are the relevant portions of the digests of those reports.
DIGEST

1. The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Servicess (CMS) use of appropriated funds to pay for the production and distribution of story packages that were not attributed to CMS violated the restriction on using appropriated funds for publicity or propaganda purposes in the Consolidated Appropriations Resolution of 2003,
Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003).

2. CMS, in using appropriations in violation of the publicity or propaganda prohibition, incurred obligations in excess of appropriations available for that purpose. See B-300325, Dec. 13, 2002. Accordingly, CMS violated the Antideficiency Act, 31 U.S.C. 1341, and must report the violation to the Congress and President in accordance with 31 U.S.C. 1351 and Office of Management and Budget Circular No. A-11.
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/appro/302710.htm


DIGEST

1. The Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) produced and distributed prepackaged news stories as part of some video news releases it issued under the Drug-Free Media Campaign Act of 1998, Pub. L. No. 105-277, div. D, title I, subtitleA, 112 Stat. 2681-752 (Oct. 21, 1998), codified in 21U.S.C. ch. 23. Because ONDCP did not identify itself to the viewing audience as the producer and distributor of those prepackaged news stories, ONDCP's news stories constituted covert propaganda and violated publicity or propaganda prohibitions contained in its 2002, 2003, and 2004 appropriations acts.

. . .

3. The Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) must report violations of the Antideficiency Act, 31 U.S.C. 1341, pursuant to 31U.S.C. 1351, because ONDCP had no appropriation available to produce and distribute materials in violation of publicity or propaganda prohibitions contained in its 2002, 2003, and 2004 appropriations acts.
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/appro/303495.htm

Although there are no questions about whether the Bush administration violated the law in the cases, no one can be prosecuted or punished under current law for such violations because they were committed by republicans.

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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
46. Shouldn't all taxpayer moneys be trackable? + other questions
there should be a way to find out who else may be on the payroll. I definitely believe that this is the tip of the iceburg. I'm curious what made Williams own up to it. No way he just decided to "do the right thing". There must have been pressure applied...but from where?
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. Josh Marshall has some speculations on Williams and the PR firm
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 10:29 PM by NVMojo
who this was connected with, Ketchum ...a unit of Omnicom Group. Didn't some DU-er dig stuff up on Omnicom before???

Read under his January 7th link:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_01_...
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