The Party is too heavy - somebody has to be thrown overboard

[kentuck]

Guess who? Just like a ship that is sinking from too much extra cargo, the Democratic Party is taking on water and will make a decision to throw some cargo overboard. Although they would prefer that these people jump, they will not hesitate to throw them to the sharks. Will it be the gays? Will it be the "pro-choicers"? Will it be the anti-gunrights crowd? Or do you think no changes are coming to our Party? No changes are needed? Does anyone else think this is a possibility?

[tk2kewl]

1. DLC is the fattest. Throw them first...

and then the anti-gun crew because they can shoot a hole in bottom of the boat.

[mattclearing]

2. It will be the DLC.

Mark my words. They will surely try to throw someone overboard.

However, we will make sure they find themselves up shit creek without the paddle.

Phony Democrats get no love. Better start looking for the life preserver, because you DLC'ers will need it.

[bowens43]

3. Time to toss the 'moderates'

[stray cat]

6. Does that mean I have to vote republican?

If I don't completely agree with the "green party" platform?

[Padraig18]

33. Good thinking. Permanent minority status is JUST what we need!

What an idiotic suggestion!

:eyes:

[w4rma]

37. Toss the DLC, not the moderates. Moderates should support the NDN.

The DLC *has* to be tossed because they will stop at nothing until all liberals have been tossed. Also, toss the gun grabbers (which includes most of the DLC, it appears). And talk more about using SOCIAL PROGRAMS to prevent abortions from being used (That puts the debate on Democratic ground and takes it away from more oppressive laws).

[Zhade]

39. You're kidding, right? The NDN supports DLC ideals.

NT!

[w4rma]

40. I'm not kidding. And moderates need somewhere to go within the Democratic

Party. Unlike the DLC leadership the NDN leadership can be worked with.

You will *never* create a "pure" political party. Don't even try to. Moderates MUST be welcomed and it needs to be done without all the infighting and backstabbing that the DLC leadership does.

[Zhade]

42. It's more the corporatism and less the infighting that worries me.

Many members of the NDN are bigtime corporatists.

[brainshrub]

4. No one has to walks the plank in the Democratic party.

You can be pro-gun, pro-life and still be a Democrat.

[aquart]

5. WE do not purge.

But keep trying. The Republicans used those disgusting tactics and look what they became.

[mattclearing]

7. It's not purging when someone doesn't share your core values.

The DLC values corporations over people. They are not Democrats.

Purging is a horrible thing. Almost as bad as corporate infiltrators trying to water down your party with deep pockets and traitorous intentions.

Throw them overboard already.

[forgethell]

20. Winners??

We don't have to purge, but maybe we should prioritize??

[Wapsie B]

8. Without becoming like the gop,

how would we establish a litmus test? Short of that, how do we remove the gop operatives from within?

[mattclearing]

9. That is the question.

I think the DLC has to be excluded from the process somehow. Someone has to tell them to take their money and their resources and go home.

In order to do that, they have to replace their money with a source of fundraising that can match it.

A Dean-chaired DNC could do it. Small contributions from citizens grateful for real representation would easily make up the difference.

The Democratic Party establishment is terrified of this sort of thing, but the longer they put it off, the more likely they are to wake up one day with no constituency at all.

Then we will wish we purged when we had the chance to save our Party.

[Wapsie B]

12. Dean needs to be DNC chair.

If they put in another casper milquetoast forget about it. The person selected to replace McAullife (sp) will be very telling. If Dean or someone with his same kind of passion is not at the head of the party, we will then know the fix is in.

[andyadkins]

10. New Mantras

Stop hypothesizing about what is right. Respond to the political world as it responds to you. The recent election cycle has demonstrated some popularized ideas have disadvantaged favored causes.
More specifically, the party lost "values" voters by emphasizing the language of difference and acceptance rather than the commonalities binding individuals to communities. For example, everyone's sexual preference is personal gratification.( Making love is not sexual, it is a series of acts to expand the boundaries of intimacy {familiar comfort}). Take advantage of this sameness to destroy misconceptions of difference. A further step, and one that should be used to establish an open the door for the latter, is to emphasize how alike we all are (taxpayer, family-oriented, community involvement)
__________________
Abortions result from ill-informed pregnancies. The right to decide to become pregnant entails empowerment through informed decision-making. Pregnancies ending with abortion indicate a failure to empower women with the right to decide to become pregnant.

[mattclearing]

14. I think I understand where you are coming from, and it is not far off

from my suspicions as well. The Democratic Party has accepted Republican framing of the debate in terms that favor the Repulican Party.

In order to present a palatable alternative, we have to re-connect with people in a way that shows Republicans as out of touch, incapable of responsible government, and as poor stewards of our public trust.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[andyadkins]

29. Reframe the debate, yes....

but leaders cull the advances provided by all and winnow them to form new guiding visionary tenets. Republicans have dominated elections since 1994, so the majority accepts the current vision for their stewardhip. Democrats must,as we have said in other words, connect the values of the base to the majority's accepted vision by reframing the debate to better match tomorrow's facts.

[Skidmore]

11. The people who "lead" this party will jettison their base before

they give up power. My grandparents, parents, and my family have all been loyal Dems, but I don't recognize this party anymore. For all the discussion that is supposed to be occurring at the top, I don't hear anything new coming out of the hopper. I think we will go first before they give up their quest to become the other Rep white meat.

[Mountainman]

13. We should not throw out our core values to win elections.

What have we won if we go agaisnt everything we believe in to win an election. I will not remain in the party if that is the case.

[GiovanniC]

15. You Will Not Out-Antigay The Republicans

You will not out-antichoice the Republicans. You will not out-racist the Republicans. You will not out-antienvironment the Republicans. You cannot out-antipoor the Republicans.

The people who are anti-gay, anti-choice, racist, anti-environment, anti-poor... those people already have a political party and they are frankly quite pleased with it. Their political party is getting the job done for them.

Becoming more anti-gay isn't going to bring the "God Hates Fags" folks under our big tent. Becoming anti-choice will not swing the Right to Life Clinic Bombers into the Democratic camp.

Here's what the Democratic Party needs to do: STOP TRYING TO OUT-REPUBLICAN THE REPUBLICANS! That's like trying to out-idiot George W. Bush. I don't care how hard you try... Bush is a natural-born idiot. It is in his genetics. And he has years and years of experience. He will be a better idiot than you any day of the week. George W. Bush can out-idiot you with his brain tied behind his back. Don't even try it. That's a losing fight.

We're the party that stands up for the worker. For the regular people. For civil rights. For democracy. For the right to safely say things that aren't popular. For the protection of our ecology, our economy, our equality. So what we really need to do is to FIGHT for those things I just mentioned. That's where we've been going wrong the past few years... we haven't been FIGHTING. Nobody wants a president, a representative, a senator, or a governor who will not FIGHT for things that are important. We are Democrats, goddammit! Be proud of it! Fight for it!

[mattclearing]

18. Thank you. My sentiments exactly.

eom

[kodi]

16. the "Party"now exists for personal aggrandizement, not for social progress

This donkey was supposed to ridden by the masses to the Promised Land. Now its used to line the pockets of the leadership of the party.

I hate the fucking leaders of the Democratic Party. They are thieves in the night who have sold their souls and our pain for 30 pieces of silver and ought to strung up by their necks for their betrayal.

At least the Republicans are honest about their dishonesty.

[Sugarbleus]

23. I pretty much agree with your sentiments...

I'm finding "issues" inside the Dem party that do not resemble anything like the "original" party decades ago.

I've hung with the Dem party because they represented the "People". The people's needs, compassion, good judgment, and fair play..etc I hang with them because they are NOT republicans..but

Today, the party doesn't look anything like it used to. There's bad faith in BOTH parties now..very sad.

Additionally, politicians rarely listen to us anymore; unless you are part of a lobby. I hate lobbyists: "We live in the Best Democracy Money can Buy"... it's pathetic.

I think I'm going Independent...at least until further notice. If Dems get their act together in such a way as to draw the majority of Americans to their side with REAL solutions to REAL "people/social" problems, then I'll continue with the party.

[MisterLiberal]

43. Then here's what we do

We start over STARTING FROM THE TOP!!!

[marc_the_dem]

17. time for dry dock

let's make the boat bigger....

[forgethell]

19. My own opinion is

that it will be the gays. Abortion will be too hard to give up. Gun control will go, too. As it should. We may need our guns in the coming melt-down of civilized society predicted here.

[blm]

21. Horseshit. Dems don't need to change. They only need to expose and fight

the GOP control of most of the media and most of the voting machines.

That's the bottom line, and anyone who looks to blame any constituency or any Democratic policy position, instead, only lets the REAL problems off the hook.

[wyldwolf]

32. well, here we are again, blm

...in yet another rabble rousing thread meant to illicit false fear and strong emotions among the further left on DU. However, they're really getting formulaic, don't you agree?

[kentuck]

22. My opinion is:

that we do not need to jettison anyone. However, in order to make room for everyone in our Party, we need to expand our "message". By permitting the diversity in our Party, we have not put forth a message that would override these secondary concerns about abortion, gay rights, whatever. We need to do that with a strong economic message with a good dose of populism. That is what will focus the attention of voters. Not by permitting the Republicans to define us in narrow terms....

[TayTay]

24. False argument from the get go

We are not extra full and ready to burst at the seems. We are a party of inclusion and we welcome people who want to fight for progressive values. The national party needs to project it's core values better and communicate with local Dems and supporters what it stands for in a meaningful way.

One of the things we damn sure don't stand for is throwing people and their valuable resources away. I don't support having the DLC way of thinking lead the party. But I am going to try like hell to convince moderates to stay in the group. Moderates, by definition serve to tell you when you have gone too far and to apply the brakes before you go over the cliff. I happen to think that the brakes have been on too long, but I don't want to drive without any damn brakes at all. (Who then puts a check on me. I'm not infallible, I need feedback and the occasional soul to tell me I'm wrong and I need to correct course.)

Do moderates favor the destruction of the environment, the erosion of rights for minorities, the erosion of the right of women to control their fertility (which encompasses so much more than abortion politics)? I don't think so. My differences with moderates are miniscule compared to my differences with the evil, corporate-dominated Right Wing nut jobs who are hell bent on erasing any protection for the common man that exists in either government or civil law. I can resolve a difference with intelligent moderates about how far an environmental law should go. I cannot resolve that difference with someone who doesn't believe in environmental law. So put me down as favoring the biggest damn tent in existence and for civil discourse that aims to unite and not divide the Loyal Opposition.

[Debs]

27. Overall I think thats a good point

I do however think that one of the weak points of dem politics is they leave the impression that they dont believe in anything. Our principles must not be abandoned even the fact we are having this conversation, that we would consider changing core values to win elections shows this is not without merit. Until dems show we are willing to lose elections rather than compromise our core values, we will deserve that impression. I read in a thread a few days ago someone saying that we must lose the liberals like me. People will not believe in you if you dont show you believe in yourself. Most people are not the political junkies we are. They have someone that knows cars fix their cars and expect someone that knows politics to run things for them. Therefore without the depth of understanding of the issues WE bring to the table they need to know that we strongly believe what we are saying, that we are committed enough to our ideals to stick with them through the hard times. Moderates are not the problem but if people dont see the deep commitment and energy that the left embodies in our party they will never trust us. I am not saying the DLC people ought to be purged we are not Nazis but they should absolutly NOT be running things, and most especially should not be talking about who to run out of the party, that way lies suicide

[TayTay]

35. I do actually see a liberal resurgence

The lefty wing of the party has not been in ascendance for quite awhile. The lefty wing is where Dems get their energy and their ideas and their passion. (It simply is. It is the active as opposed to the moderate reactive.) The lefty wing will NOT accomodate changes in Social Security to benefit rich stockbrockers and corporations that want to sell junk bonds to unknowing saps. The lefty wing is compassionate and makes a sane and compelling argument that a woman's right to control her own body is a medical rights issue. (example - Do we want the government dictating what medical prodecures we can and cannot have. How far can the government order women to go, and so forth.)

It is time for the liberal wing to claim the head of the table. The lefty wing has not been driving the arguments for awhile and we have suffered from being viewed as accomodationists and weak-willed mushy-wushies. This is false. Liberalism is a muscular force that demands that government pay attention to what happens to the common man and how actual real live people are affected by governmental, corporate and secular policies. I believe that a lot of damage has been done and being accomodating is no longer a choice and it is now a suicidal impulse. We, god dammit, stand for something. We have traditionally pledged lives, fortunes and sacred honor in order to end discrimination, create voting rights, end environmental horrors and so forth. Liberals faced prison, torture and possible death for their beliefs in the past in order to bring about change. We need to trumpet that fact and show our fellow Americans that we are strong, passionate and that our ideas will make America a stronger and better and more compassionate country.

I still do not want to jetison the mods. Again, mods have a vital job to do. They vet proposals and provide feedback on what can work and what needs more work, and they tell us when we are trying to change too fast and notify us when a change will pass electoral muster and when it will not. This is necessary information. When both sides work together we get votes and wins.

[demwing]

28. Agreed - False premise, however...

that (the party is "too heavy") is the mindset of some, and they will target as follows:

Guns are an issue that need not bring in religious influence, therefore first.

As the religious reich consolidates power, abortion will be eliminated.

Finally, when religion in America has become a hate fest of Us vs. Them, gays will be targeted.

[TayTay]

38. Think about it another way

Kerry got 59 million votes, 6 1/2 million more than in 2000. (Without the election hijinks, maybe more.) He lost to an incumbent President by about 3 million votes or so. (again, without election discrepencies factored in.)

Kerry was a bonafide liberal. (Check the dam voting record, check the ADA ratings. He has a higher lifetime ADA rating than Ted Kennedy.) The Rethugs threw every trick, every lie and every weaselly piece of misdirection they could at a campaign that had deep problems responding. The national media has been realigned in a conservative direction and the Rethugs have an entrenched system that skewed coverage right. And the Dems came within 3 million votes of unseating an incumbent President in a time of war after an attack on American soil. (Something that hadn't happened in 60 years.)

The Democratic Party is not on the verge of bankruptcy for the first time in a long while. Dems got over $1 billion dollars in contributions in the last election cycle. Process that for a minute. Democrats, the perennially poor sister got over $1 bil in contributions. And so much of it came from We The People, not the corporations. The Democrats, for the first time in so long are looking inward and generally assessing what the hell we can do to get more votes. And Democrats are looking at the grassroots and real change that invites you and me into the national conversation. (This must be vigorously encouraged, it can be done.)

We cannot sit around and mourn what might be lost. We have to take advantage of these stunning changes in Democratic structure and believe that they will pay off. (They didn't this time mostly because of Southern solidification in the RW column.) I believe they will pay off in the next election cycle. This is positive stuff and reason to believe that we are going to win. And you don't win by being wishy-washy. You win by presenting real issues and connecting them to the lives of ordinary voters. Montana shows the way. We don't have to jetison our core beliefs, we have to celebrate them.

[greenohio]

25. Ahh, more of the little tent strategy.

It has to be a winner.

[wyldwolf]

31. its deja vu

I feel like I've read this same thread before... maybe several times... worded a bit differently each time... but the same...

[KoKo]

26. Females, Gays and Activists......Dump Em' they will say. (eom)

[robcon]

34. A new record.

This is most ignorant post I've ever seen on my years at DU.

Either the poster is

1. unaware of what the Democratic Party is all about

2. is a fr**per, trying to rile up Democrats

3. is aware of what the party is about, but wants to make some cheap "victimhood" statement on behalf of females, gays and activists.

[KoKo]

41. ROFL...I'm just a Newbie...spare me...spare me......

:D

[jpgray]

30. Yes, that's how FDR made it

He first threw overboard the racist coalition of some Democrats in the South that helped him get across some of the best social programs in our country's history--right? I don't think we need to throw anyone overboard--if someone like Howard Dean had won the nomination, those people would not have wholly rejected him or backstabbed him at every chance--at least not most of them. Most would have solidly backed the guy at every opportunity. So rather than purge the party, we need to change to public speakers and the allotment of influence to various factions. Right now the DLC has too much representation in both areas, in my view. They haven't proven themselves good at forming policy or winning. The trick is, how?

[zulchzulu]

36. Yeah...we need less people to vote Democrat...brilliant idea!

It's all a game of cards actually. Anti-gun folks, gay folks, pro-choice folks, "moderates" and even those pesky "Dean" folks can stay in the party. About the same amount of stuff will get done by 2008 no matter who is in charge.

It's all about money and raising money to get more money.

By my guess, 75% of both Repugs and Democrats are classic political moderates and the laws passed will pretty much cater to their whims.

Nothing really will get done with election voting reform, the War, abortion rights, political campaign finance reform in time for 2008.

Hopefully sinister assholes like Karl Rove will go to the same fate as Lee Atwater so we can at least have a less negative presidential campaign next time. That's the only possible change I see.