What Democrat has the best grasp of the electronic voting fraud issue?

[blm]

And what other Dems are working to expose it as a major issue?

I ask because it seems that the elctronic vote fraud issue and the Republican ownership of the machines and the software seem to be ignored as part of the recount efforts.

What Dems know enough about the issue to deal with it before 2006? I want the DNC chair to get his brain wrapped around bbv and do it quickly.

[Prodemsouth]

1. Only in the House of Reps: Conyers, Nadler, Tubbs, Maxine Waters.

n/t

[blm]

2. They don't seem to be talking voting MACHINE fraud or that the OWNERS of

the machines are Republicans.

They seem to be handling the other aspects of the problems, like the shortages of machines in black communities and the denial of votes.

[punpirate]

3. Don't forget Rush Holt...

... who introduced a bill to correct some of the obvious deficiencies in HAVA. Of course, in a Republican-controlled Congress, it has gone exactly nowhere, even with a noticeable increase in co-sponsors....

[bklyncowgirl]

24. That's my Congressman

So nice to have someone good representing me. Holt's bill was cosponsored by Bob Graham in the Senate by the way and championed by Howard Dean.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. Maybe Jessie Jackson. Donna Brazile also

I have been in correspondence with her, and she has been pushing both her Party and Kerry from the inside. I acknowledge that most of her comments concern other voting irregularities, and she never talks about fraud directly, but she does comment on problems with the voting technology used and she does express outrage that evoting is so open to potential abuse. She wants that changed, but her focus is future oriented, less about the 2004 Election results than about making sure we have clean future elections.

[Dancing_Dave]

22. Doesn't someone like Donna Brazile at least realize

That Democrats JUST CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN SUCH RIGGED ELECTIONS???

In 2004 the DEMOCRATS PULLED OUR LARGEST TURNOUT EVER. Yet, in all the key places the Republicans could always pull out just enough votes to beat us...EVEN IF IT TOOK MORE VOTES THAN VOTERS REGISTERED IN THE PRECINCT. There's no limit to the electronic "phantom votes" they can create to pull out 51% in a key state...or pad their popular vote.

In 2004, the Democrats also had more money than ever before, and they won't be getting it again, partly because people are getting poorer in America all the time. The dollar is losing it's value, which will fuel runaway inflation. It will simply not be possible for the Democrats to conjure up such financial resources in 2006 or 2008. Their constituency won't have it.

If we don't clean up the elections in state after state, Democrats will NEVER be able to win in this country again. Real Democracy will be permanently dead, we'll live in Stalin's zone of "The people who cast the votes decide nothing, the people who count the votes decide everything."

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. Well personally I think she does realize it.

based on exchanges I had with her. However she noted that she had to cuss and shout for a few weeks to get her party and nominee to take this issue seriously enough, though she added that her efforts have not been wasted. Since her position allows her to work the insider channel, there is probably only so much she would say in public that is at odds with what Democratic leaders are saying.

[LittleClarkie]

40. Why don't I trust her

Maybe it's the way she admired Condi Rice, or that Rove is a friend of hers, or just that she seems to be self-promoting much of the time. Or maybe it's the way she ran Gore's campaign. How does she become an expert on what the Dems should do next when she wasn't successful in 2000 (well, she was just barely successful.) She seems to eat her own alot.

Or maybe it's just my own personal issue. Maybe I should read her book and find out more about her. Is it any good?

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. I can't say that I know her all that well

What I can say positive is this. She really has taken the voting thing far more seriously than I was afraid she actually would. She went so far as to write an essay about it in a new instant book called "WHAT WE DO NOW" that Howard Dean also is an author of by the way. We had some back and forth emails about it while she was writing it. She also delivered a Democratic Party Saturday radio address solely on the subject of voting irregularities and the need for honest inclusive elections.

One of the things I understand Brazile is credited with is helping to deliver massive minority turn out for Gore. If the 2000 election wasn't rigged her efforts there alone would have delivered the election to Gore. Brazile grew up African American in the South, I think the right to vote is something she takes seriously.

I have not read her book. I have corresponded with her about how Democrats can't run from the Liberal label, and saw a good piece she wrote on that subject. I know Brazile was unhappy with the overly cautious campaign approach Kerry was taking before he opened up and went at Bush head on over Iraq. Not everyone may see that as a good thing, but I did, since she was telling his campaign directly that Kerry should trust his gut more and polling groups less and I happened to agree with that. Take the following with as big a grain of salt as needed, but she once indicated in an email to me also that she feels the Democratic Party has become too top heavy with high paid professional consultants trying to stage manage everything about elections. Yes I see the irony in that statement, but I agree with that also.

I feel on the most solid ground however in saying that Brazile should be seen as an ally regarding potential election fraud, at least so far as preventing it in the future is concerned. As might be expected, Brazile has good connections with many Democratic African American leaders, and that is where much of the leadership is coming from now on the issue.

[Donna Zen]

42. GOTV

Brazile is really good at GOTV. I have heard from someone from the Gore campaign that structurally, Brazile didn't have control over the money. They said it really hurt the campaign.

I am glad to hear that she is supportive of election fraud, and I hope that extends to the machines. She is certainly better than Begala who let himself get swiped by Novak this afternoon when the protesters at Kerry's house made the conversations.

During the fall, Brazile often was hanging "dirty laundry" in public places. That bothered me. I am still not sure if that was a propensity she has or systematic of an insular campaign. From remarks others have made, I suspect the latter.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. It extends to the machines

I don't know if it extends to believing that the machines were massively rigged this time though. She thinks that the machines are no way near secure enough against tampering and fraud and considers that unacceptable and in need of remedy. I suspect she doesn't want to get too far out in front of the Party on this, but I know she is pushing them to investigate at least the potential for vote rigging and to pass legislation that would make evoting much more secure than it is currently. The Democratic Party has announced that they will be putting together a panel of experts in diverse fields to sort through what happened with the voting this year and report back. I don't know if they have picked who will be part of that yet. That is something that activists here might want to consider keying in on.

[LittleClarkie]

43. Okay, thanks, in some ways I was wrong

She and I agree that Kerry's gut instincts were best, and that he shouldn't have listened to his consultants so much. Shrum and Cahill should have just let Kerry loose.

[EC]

5. NONE

I'm surprised they are able to send E-mails, oh, forget that, their assistants do that...

I don't know if any of them could even google for information, let alone wrap their minds around how a computer works and could be hacked or even know the difference between a system and a program...

[blm]

8. It would seem a natural advocacy issue for Al Gore. I am sure he would

understand it if he studied it. I just haven't seen any evidence of anyone showing that they fully grasp it as an issue.

[Stephanie]

31. Al Gore

He should be the one. The guy carries a Blackberry, loves his laptop, took the initiative in creating the internet. He's a natural.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Dennis Kucinich

He's from Ohio so he know what is going on.

[Dancing_Dave]

16. So where is he now?

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Didn't you see his testimony at the Conyer's hearing?

:shrug:

[oneold1-4u]

7. Why a Democrat?

There are likely a few hundred 15-16-17 year olds who, have no vote for a president until 08, and as yet have no party affiliation, but could on any given day explain everything about e-voting machines and give a good demonstration. Where do you think these companies go for new recruits! They give millions in education and living benefits for these young people every year!
Lets at least make an offer to one or more who can find and give the information to debunk these machines. They should have been headed for a junk pile after the 2000 election.

[Dancing_Dave]

18. There's a great comic in a local HIGHSCHOOL paper

About a kid who learns there's no Santa Clause, no Easter Bunny, and no integrity in the electoral collage!

The kids are allright!

[Eloriel]

9. What an incredibly depressing thread

No offense to the originator -- it's the answer(s) that are so depressing: in a nutshell, NO ONE is really on this. No one. A few have been named, but they have not come forward in any compelling way. Even Rush Holt has only taken a position about the vulnerability of the machines (which is good, but not enough IMO).

Very depressing.

[blm]

10. That is kind of my point. NONE of them really have a grasp of the issue

and yet most of us are judging them, instead, as if they don't care.

If any of them had a real grasp....ANY of them....they would have been working to explain it to Kerry and Edwards before the election.

[Jo March]

37. Eloriel and blm, I have begun to fax them articles about the fraud

I have assumed that they are up to date like me. Well, I doubt that they are and even if they are, they need to know that I am as well.

Make sense? LOL!

I fax them articles about the fraud. They can't say that they didn't know because I send them stuff all of the time. They have to not only be informed but know how informed the voters are. If they think that we don't know what's going on, then they are less likely to step up.

These people are beginning to make me angry. I can't get off of work to march and have to take care of the sick family members to boot but I can sure as hell email and fax them information.

Dammit.

[blm]

47. One of our realities is that FEW lawmakers know half of what we know here

because they and their staff only read the Washington Post, NYT, and their hometown papers.

[EC]

11. You're right

None of them had absolutely no idea what to look for...so why didn't they hire technicians and cyber attorneys or cops from fraud?

[OnionPatch]

12. Congressman Robert Wexler

I think he's from West Palm Beach county. He tried to sue the state for not having a paper trail. I heard him on Randi's show.

[Capn Sunshine]

13. Howard Dean on the subject:

from a recent interview
HD: I think we need to focus on election officials. County Clerks, Secretaries of State in particular, because the Republicans have been so partisan in exercising their responsibility to help people vote, they‘ve in fact tried to suppress turnout instead of encourage it. Secondly, we, I think we need to try to get laws passed, by referendum if necessary, that says that no voting machines in a particular state or jurisdiction may be used unless they can be recounted by hand. Oregon has such a statute because Bill Bradbury (Oregon’s Secretary of State) got one passed in 2001. We should try to state by state overhaul the election process both by referendum and by electing where possible Democratic Secretaries of State and County Clerks.

Q: In other words, just seizing the thing locally is the way to go….

HD. Well, obviously, we’re not going to get rid of the Bush Administration for the next four years and this Congress wants to suppress votes instead of increase them. So I think the local venue is the best thing we can do.

Q: Do you think it’s too much to hope for that we’ll get any kind of media coverage regarding the Bush Administration’s active plan of disenfranchisement through basically ill equipping the polls, all those shenanigans that were pulled, do you think…

A Well, in order to do that you have to have some proof that that actually happened and while I think suspicion are well justified, we don’t actually have proof that there was a plan to do that, and until we have some proof, it’s not likely that we’re going to get much media coverage. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence and I think we are getting some media coverage on the circumstantial evidence, for example the over vote, Cuyahoga County, The addition of 3500 votes that didn’t exist before the balloting even started, on some of those electronic touch screen voting machines, those things we have to be concerned about, and I think we can get press on them.

[Dancing_Dave]

17. We were just talking about Dean's position on that this evening...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1457189

Of course, he could still use some help from young techies!:headbang:

[madfloridian]

19. State by state overhaul of Sec.'s of State and County clerks...good idear.

Start there. He is right.

[bklyncowgirl]

25. Give Dean credit for having a plan

It may not be perfect but at least he's offering something between pie in the sky (Bush will be impeached over election fraud) and total despair (we'll never win again).

It will take a grass roots effort because machine politicians of both parties like it the way it is.

[blm]

29. As I've said before, It's a start. But nowhere near what we need for now.

However, since he's starting to get a grasp on it more than most, he has my support to head the DNC. Anyone who takes this issue on, as well as the problem of media bias, deserves support.

[Tinoire]

14. Kucinich- the guy u voted 4. Spoke about it with him before the Primaries

He's very up to speed. He sounded like our more informed DUers.
Do you still have an in to him? Go for it! Track him down. If you need my help, I'd be glad to try but I think you'd be more successful going the personal route.

What he's doing about it, I have no idea...


And btw, I'm not so sure it's being ignored... Read this thread and take heart: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1456762

Here's some DK info.... & good luck!

Electronic Voting
Democracy today is at risk by the very instrument that seeks to uphold it. Electronic voting machines with meager security and significant technical flaws threaten to undermine our voting rights and thus the reliability of the election process. Without federal review and software testing, these voting machines are being marketed by companies and bought by states at an alarming rate. We cannot wait for Congress to pass legislation to address this danger. We, the people, must take action NOW to ensure the accuracy and integrity of upcoming elections.

I have created a website to educate the American public about the dangers of current electronic voting machines, and to empower and enable individuals to take preventive action in their communities by taking inventory of their local County Election Board's voting equipment; click HERE.

As citizens of the United States of America, we are fortunate to have a voting system that is designed to uphold democracy as the bedrock of our society. Although not flawless, this system serves to deliver our political representatives through a process aimed at creating a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. This type of government is essential to our democracy and, for the sake of the public interest, it must be preserved.

Election integrity cannot be assured without openness and transparency. Using electronic voting machines to conduct elections is dangerous to democracy because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy. It is imperative that there be a required voter-verified paper trail for every election so that any errors and irregularities caused by the voting machines can be discovered.

Unfortunately, there are no such requirements for the so-called "Direct Recording Electronic" machines currently being used in many communities and states. With the computer technology in use, there is constant risk of a program flaw -- or worse, tampering with the software, which could change votes and thus change the outcome of elections. Without a "voter verified audit trail," meaning a permanent record of each vote that the voter can check to verify that it represents his or her intent, these changes might never be detected.

Recent studies have reported numerous very serious technical flaws in electronic voting machines, including allowing a person to: vote more than once, see ballots that have been cast on a machine, change party affiliation on ballots, alter the counting of votes, modify, create or even delete votes inside the voting machines and interfere with audit logs and election results. Their analysis shows that the voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards, placing our future elections at risk to both insider and outsider attacks.

I am strong supporter and co-sponsor of H.R. 2239, otherwise known as the "Voter Confidence and Increased Accountability Act of 2003." If enacted, this bill would:

Require all voting machines to produce a voter-verified paper record for use in manual audits and recounts.
Ban the use of undisclosed software and wireless communications devices in voting systems.
Have required all voting systems to meet these requirements in time for the general election in November 2004.
Require that electronic voting systems be provided for persons with disabilities by January 1, 2006.
Require mandatory surprise recounts in 0.5% of domestic jurisdictions and 0.5% of overseas jurisdictions.
We have already seen the consequences of inaccurate vote keeping in Florida during the 2000 Presidential Elections where over 280,000 ballots were uncounted, leaving the sum of disenfranchised Floridians far greater than the 537-vote margin by which the state was won. Thousands of nationally and internationally renowned computer scientists consider a voter-verified paper trail to be a critical safeguard for the accuracy, integrity, and security of computer-assisted elections. Many of them can also list dozens of plausible ways for computerized voting machines to be compromised.

While there is certainly room for improvement in voting technology, electronic voting machines are not the answer. I believe that election reform is an issue that deserves close attention, but we must also guard against changes that inadvertently create even worse problems. Unless we are using auditable voting equipment, public confidence in our elections will be eroded and the results of any election will remain open to question.

To learn more about electronic voting see Blackbox Voting and verifiedvoting.org

Related Items:

Kucinich calls for suspension of electronic voting
OpEdNews.com, 4/24/04

At the Core of Democracy: Electronic Voting Machines
Dennis on Electronic Voting

Ohio Study Finds Flaws in Electronic Voting
The New York Times, 12/3/03

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/e_voting.php

[blm]

32. He should have demanded a DNC task force on bbv be put in place before

the election. I just can't imagine that not being done last summer by the Dems who DID understand it as an issue. I have to believe they really didn't understand it fully, or that they didn't believe BushInc would go through with the fraud.

[Tinoire]

45. I can't either. They all should have. It's not like we didn't scream

about it!

On edit: And it's not like they didn't witness it themselves in 2000!

[AntiCoup2K4]

15. Howard Dean

...did that guest host stint on CNBC and, with Bev Harris, actually demonstrated how easy it is to hack the Diebold database software on live TV. Unfortunately CNBC isn't the highest rated network.

Another advantage for Dean as DNC chair. He already understands this issue and wouldn't have to "learn" about it before taking action.

[janx]

20. Without question!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1457189

[blm]

30. I agree he's ahead of most, and that is why I support him for DNC, but....

he couldn't possibly have fully grasped it or he'd have made certain that Kerry's campaign people understood it fully BEFORE Nov. 2, and I have no doubt he'd have been leading the protests over fraud Nov. 3.

[janx]

33. You think that Kerry's campaign wasn't aware of the potential?

I find that hard to believe, blm. Didn't they say that they had armies of lawyers ready to address the problem? Why would they say that if they weren't aware of the potential for fraud?

[blm]

38. They were in place for voter disenfranchisement, not ELECTRONIC VOTE FRAUD

and that is the mystery. Those who DID get it (if they truly "got it") should have made it issue number one before the election.

I don't think that happened, and certainly couldn't have been expressed urgently.

[Radical Activist]

36. Why couldn't he have grasped it before the election?

Other people did. Kucinich did, as was posted in this thread.

[blm]

39. Kerry had an overflowing plate on a daily basis being prepared for every

issue that would come up.

I expected that those Dems who wanted to defeat Bush and were aware of bbv would have made it an issue with his campaign and took it upon themselves to expose it as an urgent problem before Nov. 2. Which is why I come to the conclusion that they really didn't fully grasp it.

[incapsulated]

46. That's right

And if people want the party to wake up and deal with this issue, they should want HOWARD DEAN AS DNC CHAIR!

/gets off soapbox.

:)

[rhite5]

21. More about Kucinich's interest

Back in Nov 2003, Dennis Kucinich asked for (and got) a special training seminar for all of his congressional staff on the vulnerabilities of e-voting. The training seminar was conducted by Bev Harris and programmers in the BlackBoxVoting group.

At that time he was the only presidential candidate to show any interest in the issue. I am unsure whether any other congressmen were showing interest at that time. Certainly NO senators showed interest (including Kerry).

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. he's certainly using that training well during the Ohio recount

[Dancing_Dave]

28. So how do we get in touch with the Kucinich dude?

And find out what he's doing, with all the evidence of fraud and disenfrachisement growing by the day. Obviously, we need Rev. Jesse Jackson, but since Dennis has a bit more background in the electronic side of the issue, we need him too.

[Radical Activist]

34. As usual, Dennis was talking about something months or years before

most anyone else was. And proposing a real solution instead of some half-assed talk like a certain other politician mentioned in this thread.

[Donna Zen]

26. I mailed them myself:

During the summer of 2003, two days after Bev Harris's General Discussion thread about having cracked the code, I downloaded, packaged and sent a complete set of documents to every primary candidate. Clark, who was not yet in the race, did not have an office, so I contacted someone in the draft with a specific question: did Clark know about BBV. The answer was "yes."

Since then Dean and Clark have commented on the need for a paper trail.

We saw it in the election of 2000, and right here in South Carolina in 2002, when African Americans were turned away from the polls, purged from the rolls, and intimidated when they showed up to vote.

Today, all too often, it's one person one vote if you live in the right county. And if you vote at the right machine. And if your name is on the right list. And if your skin is the right color.

Well, last I checked, there was no "if" in the 15th Amendment. Last I checked, one person one vote wasn't just a slogan - it was the highest law of this land. And I'm not going to rest until every single American can cast their vote and make their voice heard. ~Clark

Since then Clark supporters have been in direct contact with the General concerning the GEMS tabulators. On the day after 11/02 Clark's first comments to Chris Matthews were that we needed a voting system that was transparent and one that could be trusted.