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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:23 AM
Original message
A friend forwarded this e-mail from Michael Moore. . .
. . .pardon me if it has been posted elsewhere on the site:

<snip>

Fw: A Letter from Michael Moore

12/13/04

Dear Friends,

It is no surprise that the Republicans are sore winners. They have spent the better part of the past month beating their chests, threatening to send to Siberia any Republican who doesn’t toe the line (poor Arlen Specter), and promising everything short of martial law if the Democrats don’t do what they are told.

What’s worse is to watch the pathetic sight of the DLC (the conservative, pro-corporate group of Democrats) apologizing for being Democrats and promising to “purge” the party of the likes of, well, all of US! Their comments are so hilarious and really not even worth recognizing but the media is paying so much attention to them, I thought it might be worth doing a little reality check.

The most people the DLC is able to get out to an event of theirs is about 200 at their annual dinner (where you have to pay thousands of dollars to get in).

Contrast this with the following:
* Total Members of Move On: More than 2,000,000
* Total Attendance at Vote for Change Concerts: An estimated 280,000
* Total Union Members in U.S.: Around 16,000,000
* Total Number of People Who Have Seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”: Over 50 million
* Total Number of You Reading This: Perhaps 10 million or more

The days of trying to move the Democratic Party to the right are over. We lost a very close election (a one-state difference) by running the #1 liberal in the Senate. Not bad. The country is shifting in our direction, not to the right. But the country was attacked and people were scared. They were manipulated with fear. And America has never thrown a sitting president out during wartime. That’s the facts. Oh, and our candidate could have run a better campaign (but we’ll have that discussion another day).

In the meantime, while we reflect on what went wrong, I would like to pass on to you an essay that a friend who works with abuse victims sent to me. It was written by a woman who has spent years working as an advocate for victims of domestic abuse and she sees many parallels between her work and the reaction of many Democrats to last month’s election. Her name is Mel Giles and here is what she had to say…

Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the ‘new’ language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, "Why did they beat me?"

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before.

They will tell you: Every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can't stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can't seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen, as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won't; we will never be worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him, please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves from gays and civil rights. See the Democrats cry for the attention and affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all, we begin to believe we are crazy.

How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don't do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don't do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring it's over faster and hurts less if you don't resist and fight back.

Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 57 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you've learned, and that you aren't going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 57 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it's better than the abuse.

We have a mandate to be as radical and liberal and steadfast as we need to be. The progressive beliefs and social justice we stand for, our core, must not be altered. We are 57 million strong. We are building from the bottom up. We are meeting, on the net, in church basements, at work, in small groups, and right now, we are crying, because we are trying to break free and we don't know how.

Any battered woman in America, any oppressed person around the globe who has defied her oppressor will tell you this: There is nothing wrong with you. You are in good company. You are safe. You are not alone. You are strong. You must change only one thing: Stop responding to the abuser.

Don't let him dictate the terms or frame the debate (he'll win, not because he's right, but because force works). Sure, we can build a better grassroots campaign, cultivate and raise up better leaders, reform the election system to make it fail-proof, stick to our message, learn from the strategy of the other side. But we absolutely must dispense with the notion that we are weak, godless, cowardly, disorganized, crazy, too liberal, naive, amoral, "loose,” irrelevant, outmoded, stupid and soon to be extinct. We have the mandate of the world to back us, and the legacy of oppressed people throughout history.

Even if you do everything right, they'll hit you anyway. Look at the poor souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education.

And they don't even know they are being hit.

How true. And that is our challenge over the next couple of years; to hold out our hand to those being hit the hardest and help them leave behind a party that only seeks to keep beating them, their children, and the kid next door who’s on his way to Iraq.

Yours,
Michael Moore
<www.michaelmoore.com>
[email protected]


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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. A friend emailed me the same letter. Loved it! Thanks for posting it
for those who haven't seen it yet.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think Moore misses the point:
He wrote:

* Total Members of Move On: More than 2,000,000
* Total Attendance at Vote for Change Concerts: An estimated 280,000
* Total Union Members in U.S.: Around 16,000,000
* Total Number of People Who Have Seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”: Over 50 million
* Total Number of You Reading This: Perhaps 10 million or more

Out of the 16 million union members, only 55% voted for Kerry. That's our problem, and that's why we need to move towards the center.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. As a union member
"Out of the 16 million union members, only 55% voted for Kerry. That's our problem, and that's why we need to move towards the center."

I can only hope you're trying to be funny. The reason the guys in my shop have mostly left the party is that they have been sold down the river so many times by the dems. The "moving towards the center" types told everyone free trade and NAFTA and corporate boot-licking was necessary to "bring the party closer to the mainstream". Those dirty deals did nothing but alienate a vital part of the dem base so the DLC types could get new rugs in their offices and fly first class courtesy of corporate money.

The dems have sold us down the river so many times that its hard to believe that trying to be more republican on social issues is going to bring the union vote back. The party needs to support unions again. In the ten years since NAFTA the dems have lost the congress and 2 prez elections. When will the party admit screwing over its base to be repug-lite is a dumb call?
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I disagree, Yuugal.
The current status of unions and democrats is very different, IMO, Yuugal.

Like the "Reagan Democrats" of the 1980's, the problem with unions and Democrats doesn't involve economics: tax policy, minimum wages, trade policy (for the most part) or other bread-and-butter issues.

The problem is that for many union families, social issues (various... abortion, gay marriage, religious tolerance, affirmative action, etc.) plus defense policy/foreign policy (various... Iraq War, War on Terror, patriotic fervor/support for troops, immigration, etc.) trump the economic issues. Similar to the thesis of "What's the Matter with Kansas," social/foreign policy issues are more important than economics for a significant number of union families.

That's one of the reasons why it's important for the Democratic Party to move toward the middle.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. not convinced
""""The problem is that for many union families, social issues.... trump the economic issues."""

That may be the case, but that is because their is no choice to make on the economic issues between the two partys. Both reps and dems lick corporate boot and sell us down the river. So at election time many union members go for the reps who are closer to their social beliefs. Back in the day, most social conservatives who were union still voted dem because they knew which side their bread was buttered on. Since neither party gives a damn about us anymore, I don't blame them for voting the way their church tells them to.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You're wrong. The differences on economics are stark:
Economic differences...

Democrats: raise the minimum wage
Republicans: Don't raise the minimum wage

Democrats: guaranteed health coverage for all
Republicans: status quo

Democrats: Raise taxes on the rich
Republicans: Lower taxes on the rich

These, and others, are all very important economic issues to union members, IMO.

But they are often trumped for SOME union members by a wishy-washy image/policy on Iraq, the War on Terror, etc. And they are often trumped by SOME union members on social issues (pick one or more: abortion, same-sex marriage, guns, immigration, etc.)

I don't think the majority of union members will vote for a Republican soon. But I do think we will do no better than we are doing now, unless a "Bill Clinton" emerges in the Democratic Party.

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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. maybe its just a difference in perspective
I can only speak for my union shop, in other places where the wages are less, you may be right.

"""Democrats: raise the minimum wage
Republicans: Don't raise the minimum wage"""

A journeyman pressman makes just over 30 bux an hour here at my local paper. Raising the min wage means nothing to people making 70-100k a year. They sure loved Bush's tax cut though.

"""Democrats: guaranteed health coverage for all
Republicans: status quo"""

Once again, my guys have excellent benefits so this is also a non-issue for them.

"""Democrats: Raise taxes on the rich
Republicans: Lower taxes on the rich"""

LOL. The union people here ARE the rich! They've learned over the years that when the dems say tax the rich , they mean us!

"""These, and others, are all very important economic issues to union members, IMO.""""

Maybe other issues are, but the 3 you mentioned don't affect the union pressman I know.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The largest union in the US is the SEIU
Thir members are not rich. They know they compete with others (usually immigrants) for minimum, or close-to-minimum wage jobs for the janitorial contracts, etc. that they work at.

That's the face of unions in the US - not the (apparently) fat-cat pressmen.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. fat-cat?
We earned what we have by striking and fighting long and sometimes bloody battles for what we have. Houses here are 400k+ and if you want to own one you need to make more money. If the face of unions in this country sucks, its because our party deserted us in favor of corporate money many years ago.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Another Union brother here. You are talking out of your ass.
...in just about all your posts. Good thing you use "IMO". :eyes:

Main reasons why some of my co-workers voted GOP...

Kerry flip-flops
Clinton Lied
Kerry betrayed his country by saying "Baby Killer"
A "Clinton guy" stuffed papers in his socks
Limbaugh says so
Dems don't stand for anything
Fox News is good
O'Reilly is right
Michael Moore is great, but still...

I can count on one hand who in my shop of 400, voted on abortion/equal rights for gays, etc.

It's the media stupid!

And...this "Fat Cat" makes only $60,000....and my taxes went UP since Bush siezed office. Comparing State returns did it.

BTW: Moving to the center means we would have to move left now.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. wow are you in my shop?
You are spot on! My taxes also went up since we saved a few hundred on federal tax but my prop taxes and state taxes went up 700 bux to more than make up for it. Thank you for replying since it gives me hope I'm not the only union person who sees that the glory days of the dem party and the glory days of unions were the same period of time for a good reason. When the dems stopped supporting union people the party fell flat on its face and so did the unions. Its hard for people to worry about gay-rights or abortion-rights or minority-rights or any other rights when they can't even make enough at their job to participate in the American dream.

And contrary to popular opinion on this board, people do vote against their beliefs when they think it will help them feed their family. Many people in my shop are Rush addicts and voted dem anyway back when they felt the party was for them. Now that the dems are kissing corporate butt just like the repukes these people are voting on other issues and we have lost them in droves.
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Vox_Reason Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. We need a much better message machine
For all the reasons that Touchdown mentioned, we were at a huge disadvantage in this election. Joe average is buying the popularly-disseminated Rovian talking points, because they've got a much better delivery method than we do. Our delivery method is 20th century, and they've been working for years to create a new one.

The fascists are way ahead of us now in terms of messaging. They have a whole TV "news" network to spew their talking points 24/7 without the burden of "objectivity". They have a number of "star" pundits to pimp their talking points on talk radio for at least 3 hours a day, and in many markets they have a local clone to pick up the baton for at least another 3 hours. They have a variety of well-funded "think tanks" to promulgate their fascist ideas to any weak-kneed "news organization" that will allow them on to provide Unka Karl's talking points.

After a while, this stuff's gonna convince someone who's looking for a lifeline. We're not providing a competing lifeline.

What do we need to do?

We need a competing network to Faux. Yesterday.

We need to actively support Air America sponsors and expand the network as quickly as possible.

We need to support whatever efforts are being made to fund and support liberal thinktanks to oppose the AEI's, etc.

We need to work harder at marginalizing far-right viewpoints as being what they are--fringe viewpoints. The above-mentioned apparatus has been effective at making fringe viewpoints SEEM mainstream because of the pervasiveness of their message mechanism.

This post is long enough. What do you think?
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I agree with some of that
The other side is way better than us at getting their message out and convincing people they are for them when the reality is much different. Thats why the church gets along with republicans so well, because religion does the same exact thing. They make you feel they are on your side and looking out for your best interests not only in this world but in the future also, but its mostly a bunch of rich people getting over on poor people who are duped into giving their food money to guys like Pat Robinson so they can buy another diamond mine or mansion. So in a general sense I agree with you that we need a media outlet of our own.

Where we disagree is in the specifics. I've listened to alot of AAR and I've never heard a single word about unions. I've heard tons of stuff about blacks, gays, jews, abortion rights people, feminists.........but never one word about MY main issue. My union brothers and I are considered "fat-cats" even in a place like this. I'm white, male and hetero and its getting harder every year to try and rationalize to myself why I am still a democrat when we are hated by so many in the party. Since my other major issue is the environment, I'm thinking the greens or perhaps a new workers party would be more suitable for me. AAR just reinforces alot of the white-man-hating stereotypes that the other side uses to split us up.

As for liberal think-tanks, I have no faith at all that guys like Al From, who have spent their careers bootlicking in exchange for table scraps from their corporate masters, are going to waste money promoting a living wage in general or unions in specific. That would interfere with his cushy job generating corporate dollars.

Before we go after the opposition we need to clean up our own house first. In the old days, when a company thought they could screw over their union by hiring scabs, every other union would refuse to cross their picket lines and the unions would usually win in the end, when the real fat-cats of the world....the CEO's making 5000 times what I make, got the message that they couldn't take us all on. The same tactics would work again with our party if we could get rid of the corporate turncoats and sell-outs and have each faction of our party support the other's rights. I've always supported equal rights for minorities, women's rights, gay rights, you name it. Where is our support?
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. The thread on this from yestarday
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. "We have the mandate of the world to back us..."
Niiiice!
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. To validate the abuseve statement Mike made see...
http://www.renanabrooks.com/publication_itsthelanguage.html

more essays by Dr Renana Brooks see www.renanabrooks.com down tword the bottom of her institutes home page

the essay is about Bu$h's abusive behavior is exactly like a clasical wife abusers and the language they use
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thank the Stars for Michael Moore!
Somebody has to say this..might as come from our Fearless Documentarian!

I cannot believe those Dems who are acting like abused spouses AGAIN after four fricking years of it. Can't they review and see it didn't do Any good?

You Rock,:yourock: Michael! I don't care what that GOON, al from, says about you!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Abusers. That absolutely nails it.
They are abusers. They are abusive. And who do they speak for? MORE abusers. Abusers have to knock somebody else down to build themselves up. They are sick. So are the republi-CONS. Those who gravitate toward them, as I have seen in some of my emails, are those who are truly still hurting from 9/11 and want SOMEBODY to pay for it. Barring any logical answers or searches for treatment, they lash out. They need to see SOMEBODY pay for it. Since they as individuals are powerless to go make Osama pay, personally, they take it out on whoever's closer to them.

My mom is still like that, although not nearly as much so since my dad died. Mind you, he NEVER hit her, or me, either. Not EVER. That must be said. But he was abusive in other ways, mainly psychological - towards her. Somehow I escaped the brunt of it, but my mom did not. LOTS of humiliation and degradation. Finally walked out on her and kept company with other women - rather shamelessly in public, so all her friends knew, too. She'd married a substitute for her father, but he actually DID beat her and her siblings as well as terrorizing and mind-fucking them. She endured a lifetime of this.

Her solution? LOTS of anger. Planet-sized wads of it. Never sought counseling. Never even considered it. Somehow, to her generation, that was just a whole lot more shameful than seeking help to overcome situations that truly WERE shameful - or shame-filled. That anger stayed put and was never dealt with, so it simply sat and festered. Since I was the only one at home, I was the one most conveniently available to lash out at. So I became her whipping post. Not literally, mind you. To her credit, I will say she never hit me, either. But she might as well have. Verbally - on an ongoing basis. The sniping, fault-finding, anger, resentment, name-calling, screaming, serious hostility and negativity, and verbal vitriol was damned near constant. NOTHING I did would ever please her, or would ever be enough. I believe she felt, deep down, that she was horribly aggrieved and that SOMEBODY, somehow, somewhere, HAD to pay for it. Someone had to pay. So it wound up being me.

I'm no shrink. It's just what I lived through, and what I've been led to conclude, and for which I did get myself some help. I think too many in our country are just too wounded, for whatever reason, and have to lash out. The 9/11 stuff is just an excuse for most. Just an extreme manifestation of how "unfair" everything is. They won't seek help, either. Hard to do, too, when you're certain you don't need help - because there's nothing wrong with YOU, it's always that OTHER somebody over there whose fault it is. It's never YOUR fault. This syndrome ALWAYS demands a scapegoat - someone or something OUTSIDE onesself. To many, it's a lot of nameless, faceless "liberals" who've just made everything all awful every which-a-way, and they're to be punished. Because SOMEBODY, somewhere, somehow, just simply HAS to pay. The last thing these wounded, twisted people would ever consider doing is looking within themselves for answers, or accountability, or any responsibility for whatever plight they're in now. Heaven forbid they admit they made a mistake, or were wrong. Much easier to be wronged - than wrong yourself. We have a pResident like that, even now. We have an entire national syndrome like that now. We see it all being acted out, now.

Michael Moore makes another great point - in a continuing series. Even Dr. Dean has diagnosed us as a country (especially us liberals) as being depressed, and beaten down. These guys know something. They need to be listened to. Closely and carefully. They're saying some very important things.
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