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My 2 cents on why I think Dean would be good as DNC chair.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:25 PM
Original message
My 2 cents on why I think Dean would be good as DNC chair.
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 12:33 PM by blm
First, he is clever and fairly quick on his feet without being overly slick. I can appreciate slick, and can't STAND overly slick. I never denied the man's political talent, just wanted to see it focused more constructively for our longterm goals.

Second, I think he's the most senior Democrat who can wrap his brain around the voting machine issue. He hasn't done so yet, but, I think he started to do it and is smart enough and persistent enough to pursue it. Because if it doesn't happen, we will never win again, NO MATTER WHAT.

I only wish he had wrapped his brain around it and pursued it as an issue BEFORE November 2. We needed high profile Democrats and the DNC to do that while Kerry was campaigning.

Last, I think he has a pretty solid grasp of the length the media will go to attack Democrats. He understands exactly how they will build their targets just to revel in tearing them down for their corporate masters.

Kerry trusted Dean during the general election to represent him. That says alot about both of them. They believe in TEAM work.

Keep it honest, smart, and aggressive and we can get the America we deserve.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yep. I agree

Go to radio left and sign their peition Dean for DNC.

http://blog.radioleft.com/blog/_WebPages/Home.html
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm at the point where
If he doesn't get it, I won't blame anyone for leaving the party.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well, I'm for anyone who will make the media and voting machines the issue
and if that turned out to be someone other than Dean, then I'd be behind them all the way. I just think Dean MIGHT be most likely to shine a light on those two issues.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I feel the same way...maybe start a new one, could that be possible?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. The interview on CNBC when he hosted, the petition, the rally.
He really did a lot about the voting machine issue. Remember the interview on Topic A. The petition for Rush Holt's bill, the support for the rally to present it to congress? This was after he dropped out and before Nov. 2.

The congress failed to address the issue for whatever reason.

Other than that I agree with you.
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Dr. Dean with Bev Harris on Topic A, showing how to hack the vote
For a transcript with screen shots:

http://groups.msn.com/votefraudusa/3.msnw
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Yes, but he had Kerry's ear after the primaries. In fact, Kerry used Dean
as a surrogate as often as he used Clark, with whom he had a very long friendship. They talked ALOT. If Dean had a firm grasp of the machines as a problem then I trust he would have shared that concern with Kerry and would have spearheaded a campaign to fully air the problems. He didn't, so I think he has yet to show his brain fully wrapped around it as an issue.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deleted message
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Those who followed my posts would know the difference.
But, you can't expect everyone to follow your posts.

I learned to separate those who were focused on constructive action and progress from those who just wanted to pop off at the closest Kerry target.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. true, you can't expect everyone to get it
Especially the lovely folks who make personal attacks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Deleted message
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. it is
Thanks for loaning it.

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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I agree
and I say that as someone who does not support Dean for president. This spot seems to fit him in my opinion. He would be very good in this spot and the points you have made support that claim. We need someone who is not afraid of the media and after the scream he did not lose face so his experience is valuable. That little issue could have brought some to their knees but it did not do that to Dean. Yes, it has taken me a while and lots of thought but I would really like him in this spot as long as he takes it and stays with it and he says he will so I say, great.
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FightinNewDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well said, but I disagree

You make an articulate and reasonable case for Dean, but I don't think he is the best choice.

Gov. Dean is a polarizing figure. Much like Hillary Clinton, he is easily caricatured as being something that he isn't, a far-left maniac. Unfortunately, perceptions matter.

I also have doubts as to whether Dean is the guy who can pull all of the wings of the party together. I fear that he will never have the trust of many congressional Democrats, of the New Dem and Blue Dog factions, and, if he does reach out, he may spark a fit among the "progressive" wing. It's a no-win situation.

In my opinion, Simon Rosenberg is probably the right person for the job at this point in time. Rosenberg is that rarest of creatures, a New Democrat who has a good working relationship with the left wing of the party. As a former Lieberman aide and DLC staffer, he can get From and Reed to return his calls; as someone who has wisely cultivated ties to the liberal blogosphere, he can work well with the DFA crowd.

More importantly, I think Rosenberg has a good grasp of the meta-issues the party faces. His Hispanic outreach program (which sought to boost a potential base constituency with a centrist, values-centered message) was way ahead of the DNC and its cookie-cutter quasi-populism. He understands the value of building alternative organizational frameworks, of cultivating small and mid dollar donors, of emphasizing issues that unite Democrats.

That, in short, is why I hope Rosenberg is the next DNC chief.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. I didn't like the way Rosenberg attacked Kerry using bogus GOPpoll numbers
for the Hispanic vote. And then when he was corrected by the Hispanic organization with the ACTUAL numbers, he didn't apologize for spreading the GOP generated info.
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Us vs Them Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've nominated Dean for party chair for all of the reasons mentioned, plus
He embodies grassroots leadership. As DNC chair, I feel he will listen to us. He knows WE are the true voice of democracy.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kerry really needed to address the BBV issue himself
He needed to lead on that. Dean did what he could, but Kerry had the power of the whole party behind him, even those of us who did not like him much. He could have and should have done something with all of that influence.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I doubt he knew enough about BBV. Heck, even Dean didn't pursue the issue
much beyond Tina Brown's show. If he didn't see it as a priority, how could Kerry who had an unending, overflowing plate battling BushInc on every other issue 24/7?

I am quite certain that had Dean told him that BBV was as serious as the activists say that he would have had Dean spearhead the campaign to expose it before the election. It didn't happen so I assume Dean hasn't fully grasped it himself yet. I am trusting that he will, though.
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Dean speaking on Diebold in 2003:
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Government_R...

Q (from Concord Monitor): I have been very disturbed about the security concerns surrounding the makers of electronic voting machines. Most alarming have been the allegations surrounding Diebold Election Systems and their attacks on those who have questioned their products and their behavior. Could you please discuss your feelings on this matter, the implications you think it has on our democracy, and what you would propose be done to address it?

A (from Dean): The chairman of Diebold has sent a letter saying that he will do everything he can to get Bush reelected. This does not engender confidence in the American electoral system. If I become the Democratic nominee we will have teams, particularly in jurisdictions like Florida, who will be conducting poll watching activities to prevent the kind of Republican abuses that took place in the last election. We will do more work on the voting machine issue as the campaign moves along.

Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 6, 2003
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Dean speaking on e-vote security in July 2004:
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/governmen...

Former Vermont governor and Democratic presidential hopeful Howard Dean joined prominent Democrats yesterday to call attention to the need for election machines that are accurate and secure and can be audited.

Dean joined Rep. Rush Holt (D-N.J.) at a news conference with the Campaign for America's Future and Rock the Vote to call attention to a plank in the Democratic Party's 2004 platform that calls for voting systems to be "accessible, independently auditable, accurate and secure," and to excoriate Republicans in Congress and state governments who have blocked legislation mandating a paper trail for votes cast using electronic voting machines.

...A closer look convinced Dean of the seriousness of the issues, which he said threatened to undermine democracy in the U.S. if left unaddressed. "If people don't think votes count, the first thing they'll do is stop voting. And when people stop voting, elected officials will stop caring about ," he said.

Dean and others called on the federal government to institute standards for the security of voting machines and to require that all voting machines can be audited to verify the accuracy of vote tallies.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. The point is there was no fullscale campaign over it as an issue.
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 02:26 PM by blm
IF Dean was on it as fully as some would like to think, he would have MADE it a larger media issue and made certain that Kerry and his campaign were fully aware of it. I believe Dean was sincere in his efforts to get Kerry in office, and had he fully grasped the import of BBV he would have pursued it doggedly THROUGHOUT the campaign and especially at the Democratic convention where he was a featured speaker.
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Excerpt from Dean's book "You Have the Power":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=40...

Even the plan adopted by Congress to deal with the Florida recount debacle -- the Help America Vote Act -- looked fixed from the start. No sooner had Congress authorized the states to buy new equipment to improve the reliability of future vote counting than the news came out that the new touch-screen voting machines were potentially more subject to tampering. Worse still, they left no paper trail. Worst of all: Two of the companies providing the new machines -- Election Systems Software and Diebold Election Systems -- had notable links to the Republican Party. Most notably, Walden O'Dell, the CEO of the voting-machine maker Diebold Election Systems, had said in a fund-raising letter that he'd do all he could in "helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes for the President."

The fix, it seemed, was in.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. "our longterm goals"
We want an immediate end to the war in Iraq by pulling all US troops and personnel out ASAP. We want the total repeal of PATRIOT Act, and restoring the Bill of Rights as the Law of the Land. We want an end to the phony "War on Terror" which is nothing but a pretext to expand American hegemony throughout the world. We want an end to trade deals and organizations that are nothing more than tools to exploit the workers in other countries and to drive wages down at home. We want to scrap the Gestapo-like Homeland Security Department, and we reject the creation of an American-style KGB as the authoritarians in the 9/11 Commission recommended.

We want the abolition of the Electoral College and the expansion of the House of Representatives to fully represent all the voters, rather than its artificially low membership which is designed to dilute the urban and minority votes.

There is no "our" in the "our longterm goals," for our longterm goals are incompatible with one another.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Why do you assume you're so different than most everyone else here?
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 02:58 PM by blm
Most of us want the same things at least 90% of the time and/or to varying degrees. Your goals aren't perfect and many would say the same about mine. I'm not going to claim they have no right to a voice or pretend that only my goals are the right ones no matter how strongly I feel they are. The world is too big for that level of vanity, selfishness or impracticality.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Some people wont be pleased unless Mumia is DNC chair from prison.
I agree- Dean for DNC!!!!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. The difference is that some of us won't compromise on the Iraq war
This means ending the war NOW, not at some fuzzy time in the future, and bringing all the troops home immediately and unconditionally.

There is also no compromise whatsoever in our demand that PATRIOT Act must be repealed in its entirety. This law is too flawed to be saved with band aids, as some Democrats advocated during the campaign.

There is no compromise on abortion rights. We must reverse the trend since the Casey decision of underming abortion rights by imposing restrictions on those rights, i.e., parental notification, "partial birth" abortion ban.

What about the cowardly way Democratic leaders failed to defend the right of gays and lesbians to be treated equally, with the same rights and privileges as all other American citizens. This includes the right to marry!
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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Dean
I think one of the best reasons to pick Dean as the chair of the DNC is that he does a good job of explaining the message of the Democratic Party. I think he did a good job, today on Meet the Press, of talking about the Democratic message and pointing the flaws/hypocrisy of the Republican Party. He pointed out that Republicans are not really pro-life in that once the child is born the Republicans do not care about the child. I have been waiting for months for a Democrat to point this out. Overall, I think Dean did a pretty good job on MTP today.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Dean's the one
Goddess40's mom here. We need a straight talker with a brain and that is Howard Dean. If you have ever seen him in person (I have three times) you will see how he can rally a crowd. He's quick on his feet and not afraid to take anyone on.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
32. Dean should be DNC chair
Because:

1. He believes this should be a 50-state fight.
2. He pays attention to the school board and state legislative races in places like Alabama -- like he did this year with Democracy for America
3. After losing in the primaries he formed DFA instead of taking his bat and ball and going home.
4. He's a fighter who won't take any shit off the Republicans.
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