Scalia in shul: State must back religion

[Jon8503]

US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia used an appearance at an Orthodox synagogue in New York to assail the notion that the US government should maintain a neutral stance toward religion, saying it has always supported religion and the courts should not try to change that.

Speaking at a conference on religious freedom in America on Monday hosted by Manhattan's Congregation Shearith Israel, the oldest Jewish congregation in North America, Scalia said that the founding fathers never advocated the separation of church and state and that America has prospered because of its religiousness.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...

[dewaldd]

1. Scalia ought to read what the founding fathers actually wrote about it

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson

[TwentyFive]

2. Yes - the Founders would consider Bush and Scalia to be enemies of the US

[ozymandius]

3. Can anyone explain to me why this man is sitting on the Supreme Court?

Yes, the founders were deists. While freedom of religion was written into the Constitution - so was freedom from religion. A state sponsored religion is a catalyst to a leader's sense of "divine providence" - something our ancestors fought a war to eradicate from these lands.

[robbedvoter]

4. Scalia also said in 2001 that "Sometimes, the Constitution is meant

to protect us FROM the will of the people"
I'll let you figure it out who "us" is.
Anyway, put this together to Rove's mumbling and you get their agenda:


"You're not such a scary guy," joked his guide. "Yes, I am," Rove replied. Walking away, he muttered deliberately and loudly: "I change constitutions, I put churches in schools ..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1358966,00 ....

[Jon8503]

6. My God, never heard or saw that anywhere. Talk about scary....

I am going back to bed.

[fujiyama]

25. It reminds me of a dialogue in a movie

Well maybe it was a movie. I don't really know.

You want the Law?

I am THE law!

[reprehensor]

8. Jefferson on Freedom of Religion.

"To suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:302, Papers 2: 546

Jefferson on Freedom of Religion

People like Scalia are placed on the Supreme Court to enable the bloodless Coup.

[mark11727]

9. Surprised that "Turdblossom" didn't add...

..."I could also make you disappear if I wanted.. ha, ha!"

Typical in-your-face BushCo bullsh*t.

[baldguy]

5. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."

Gee, seems pretty clear to me that the gov't is REQUIRED to maintain a neutral stance toward religion.

I think there has to be some minimum standard for federal judges - that they be able to read, understand & agree with the basic tenants of the Constitution. If they don't, then they're not qualified to be judges.

[liberalmuse]

7. Just curious...

but what's a U.S. Supreme Court Justice doing touring the country and spouting his radical views at exclusive religious orgs and other private venues? Isn't this a conflict of interest? Just asking.

[China_cat]

10. The government best supports religion

when it keeps its nose out of the churches and the churches out of the legislature.

[reprehensor]

11. "...thus building a wall of seperation between church and state."

Mr. President

To mess? Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a
wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

[Dr Batsen D Belfry]

12. Coming soon: Constitutional Amendment 1-1/2

You have the freedom to practice your own religion in private, but you have to practice ours in public, at work, in school etc.

I have had several discussions about this at our synagogue, where some of the older retired wealthy people voted for Bush. Not all, but many. I explained to them that what I see in the workforce today is what never would have happened 6 years ago. Prayer circles at work, etc. I explained to them that since they are not in the workforce, they don't see this, but if I choose not to attend a prayer circle, even a non-compulsory thing held after work, I can be viewed as a "non-team player" and fired without cause. They were shocked.

Dr Batsen D Belfry

[Q]

13. Scalia is a revisionist...

...and like his friends in the Bush* WH...knows that the state can control the population much easier if the church is on their side...as opposed to being neutral or on the side of the opposition.

He deliberately distorts history for the benefit of the ruling class..of which he belongs. He and others like him are working towards the 'Corporate/Church/State'...otherwise known as fascism.

[aquart]

14. What idiot Jews let him pull that shit in their shul?

We NEVER prosper when religionists are in charge. NEVER. The demented belief that we're safe because this time they're going after the Muslims? JESUS! Have we gone nuts?????????

[reprehensor]

The Jews that are charter members of the 'Idiot Theocrat Society'

I guess...

Thomas Pain
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church." (Richard Emery Roberts, ed. "Excerpts from The Age of Reason". Selected Writings of Thomas Paine. New York: Everbody's Vacation Publishing Co., 1945, p. 362)

John Adams
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).

Ben Franklin
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)

From: Notes on the Founding Fathers and the Separation of Church and State

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. America's religiousness has prospered because of the separation

of church and state --

As an atheist, I'm tempted to thank these guys for violating the constitution. Mixing politics into religion invariably weakens the grip of the opiate of the masses.

But I really don't look forward to the coming religious wars.

[Ian David]

16. The 10 Commandments

It is no coincidence that our very first amendment to The
Constitution nullifed the first four of the Ten Commandments.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. I'd say 'counterbalances' rather than nullifies.

Keeps the wingnuts from shooting me.

[robbedvoter]

18. Huh? Say what?

[robbedvoter]

19. Then you forget how the "faith based" BS channeled your tax money to

fundies (and only fundies - sorry - "judeo" part - you'll have to do the prospering on your own), in a clear quid pro quo of political support.
It's the largest unreported corruption scandal of this adminisytration.

[vixannewigg]

20. Orthodox Jewish Synagogue

The key is that this was at an Orthodox Jewish Synagogue. Most American Jews are NOT Orthodox, which is the equivalent of being a fundamentalist Christian. However, I am not even sure why Orthodox Jews would want a break in the separation of church and state, since Christianity would inevitably take over. Strange. I don't know enough about this congregation to really make a judgment, but it would certainly be a mistake to assume that the majority of American Jews are for a breakdown of church and state. The article says as much if you continue reading.

[reprehensor]

21. The Founding Fathers Meet George Bush

Imaginary prewar symposium* featuring George Bush, Richard Butler, Dick Cheney, Thomas Jefferson, Jim Jeffords, Christopher Layne, James Madison, Bill Maher, Nelson Mandella, Jim McDermott, Robert Novak, Jay Rockefeller, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., Ted Sorenson, George Washington and Bob Woodward (*using quotes from all, uttered both before and after the beginning of the war in Iraq)

FORMER CHIEF UN WEAPONS INSPECTOR RICHARD BUTLER: "This administration has a view of the special character of the United States, the singular and exclusive character that is new. I've talked to them about it and they make this plain. They say, ‘We are the sole super power, we're therefore the exceptional country, we're outside of international law. Others have to obey the law and obey the rules, but we don't.’" (5/14/03, SBS.com)

ROBERT NOVAK: "The last thing that the hawks inside the administration, and their friends outside the administration, want is a coup d'etat that would replace Saddam Hussein. They want a war as a manifestation of U.S. power in the world and as a sign that the United States is capable of changing the balance of power and the political map of the Middle East." (1/18/03, CNN)

PRESIDENT JAMES MADISON: "The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse." (12/2/1829)

BUTLER: "I mean, I'm not making that up. If they were sitting here tonight. . . the people I've talked with would readily agree. They'd say, ‘Yeah, that's right, that's who we are. We are the exceptional country and we don't have to obey the law because we're different.’" (5/14/03)

PRESIDENT THOMAS JEFFERSON: "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." (1778)

NOVAK: "Talking to a senior official, and he said to me, he said, ‘Well, if we don't hit in Iraq, where are we going to hit?’ And they -- it's a desire that the United States, the superpower, is going to manifest its authority to the rest of the world." (1/18/2003)

JEFFERSON: "Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence." (1821)

Maureen Farrell

[WyLoochka]

22. Scalia is blad faced lying

about the Founders, surprise, surprise

Jefferson couldn't be more clear or more adamant:

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." --Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:119

"The law for religious freedom... put down the aristocracy of the clergy and restored to the citizen the freedom of the mind." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:400

"The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:301, Papers 2:546

"If anything pass in a religious meeting seditiously and contrary to the public peace, let it be punished in the same manner and no otherwise than as if it had happened in a fair or market." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548 (SCALIA HIMSELF HAS BEEN PEDDLING SEDITION FOR A QUARTER OF A CENTURY - WHY HAVEN'T WE PUNISHED HIM - AT LEAST BY REMOVING HIM FROM THE COURT?)

And one of my favorites, especially relevant today to the school vouchers struggle over compulsory "contributions" taken from people through taxation and funneled against their will to religious schools:

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson: Bill for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers 2:545

SAVE OUR CHILDRENS' MINDS - SAY NO TO SCHOOL VOUCHERS!

[ooglymoogly]

23. impeach the delusional idiot

[KnowerOfLogic]

24. Like I said, SECESSION! Scalia is the future of Red America.

And as long as they own the media and the voting machines and are reproducing faster than the rest of us, we're going to be screwed. The time has come to cut the cord.