To understand what's going on; "THERE'S BEEN A MILITARY COUP."

[LynnTheDem]

For any of the rational, logical, THINKING people, the 49% who said HELL NO to bush on November 2, that are having problems understanding what in the hell is going on in this country, this advice from an American ambassador may help;

"When I try to understand what's going on every morning, I tell myself there's been a military coup."

[DemBones DemBones]

1. Was the ambassador talking specifically about the election?

If so, :wow:

Any hints on which ambassador? Surely not our man in Poland.

[charlie]

3. Anonymous state department official

said that to the LA Times. No one knows who he/she is or if he/she was an ambassador.

[LynnTheDem]

6. Actually yes, some do know who he is.

And he was one of the many ambassadors who resigned when bushler invaded Iraq.

A link to his quote;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,982894,00.html

[City Lights]

28. The linked Guardian article is dated June, 2003, so the Ambassador can't

be referring to 11-2-2004. Maybe he's referring to the judicial coup of 12-12-2000.

:shrug:

Did the Ambassador make this statement again after 11-2-2004? I'm confused.

[aquart]

2. Where? Here?

This was not a military coup. Coup, yes. Military, no. Most of our generals want nothing to do with it. And our soldiers? Nuh uh, they ain't backing this.

This is a fascist, bloodless coup. Right now, we're still pretending we have a government with laws. It's sort of funny.

[LynnTheDem]

4. WHO is the Commander in Thief?

I'd say that counts as a military coup, when it's done by the head of the US military.

It does make getting up every day a bit easier, rather than trying to use rational thinking, common sense and logic to figure out WTF is wrong with 51% of America.

[rooboy]

7. If you believe that the WTC attacks were part of it...

then Richard Myers is part of the coup and it certainly wasn't bloodless.

[teryang]

8. I agree

There was a coup and Myers was a big part of it. 911 was central to the plan. But the truth is a lot of the top leadership is just being carried along by the tide now, which they don't particularly care for. It's the defense contractors, the oil companies, and the big financial interests particularly the insurance industry and health sectors that back the dictatorship. It's more of a corporate thing than a military thing, but war and its attendant dynamics are necessary to keep it going. (Machiavelli 101)

It's a military coup in that it is the bushco network in the military industrial complex, the defense industry (and their stockholders) and the civilian pentagon leadership that are playing the primary role and benefiting the most.

[LittleClarkie]

5. That would be a Chickenhawk coup, actually

I don't see where the military, esp. the brass, has been invited. In fact, it appears they're being systematically kicked out of the process, except for when they're being used for fodder.

[James T. Kirk]

9. Get over the 2004 election (not coup) and get ready for 2006 & 2008.

There will be more elections and there is always an opportunity to make them go the other way.

[ClintonTyree]

10. So...............

we should just be good little boys and girls, forget that Democracy has been subverted and look forward to 2006 and 2008 when it can be repeated? Uh,uh...I don't think so. I for one will not "get over it".

[James T. Kirk]

12. No. Participate in the democratic elections in 2006 and 2008.

So, you're giving up? Not going to participate in the election campaigns? Not going to vote? Not going to contribute?

[Carl Brennan]

42. "Get over it"? Now that has a familiar ring to it.

:eyes:

[James T. Kirk]

49. How about "move on"?

[area51]

13. Um, Captain...

Without getting rid of republinazi electronic voting machines, there won't be "an opportunity to make them {elections} go the other way."

[robbedvoter]

20. Canna do it, Captain. Beam me up, cuz here on Earth, elections

are a thing of the past (USA elections). Although I have no dount, the kabuki theater will go on. W will pretend to campaign to the same 300 people bused from place to place, naive dems will run against him and...darn it! the cat ate your vote again? Better luck next time!
I'm no gerbil on a treadmill.

[KittyWampus]

24. Not With E-Voting, Vote Suppression. No More Democracy

bye bye.

Elections that are just a fig leaf.

[James T. Kirk]

50. So why are we even bothering discussing politics?

Posting messages on Democratic Underground can only lead the evil overloard right to you.
They're watching, don't you know?
:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[sendero]

11. I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut...

.... that few of the military commanders/generals working in Iraq think

1) this was a good idea

or

2) this can ever be "won"


This was a chickenhawk neocon coup, the military is not that stupid - they've been there and done that.

[telamachus]

14. This kind of talk

Is very offensive to the thousands of innocents who have died around the world in REAL coups. You should think about that before you keep overreacting and get real.

Show me the tanks show me the troops in the streets show me the killings.

[DARE to HOPE]

15. Don't you know anything about power?

The object is to use as little violence as you have to.

This WAS a coup, as violent against our civil rights, our environmental rights, our human rights as can be.

[telamachus]

17. Please show me PROOF

that the government was taken by illegal means. It was not a coup it was politics. By branding it a coup then we are saying that our democratic process is dead. To all those who think it was a coup why are you not fighting it. I don't mean spreading unsubstantiated flimsy cobbled together conspiracy theories that make 'creation science' look valid.

What are y'all doing to promote democracy or to fight the coup leaders?

[KittyWampus]

26. Proof? All The LEGAL Votes In 2000 Were NOT COUNTED!

and SCOTUS appointed Bush.

1. Bush v. Gore should have NEVER been heard. Bush was not a party to the election... THE AMERICAN VOTERS WERE.

2. SCOTUS made their decision a "Non-Precedent". There IS NO SUCH THING in the SCOTUS.

3. After SCOTUS illegally made Bush King, the legal ballots WERE counted by the Press and they found that GORE WON.

4. The Exit Polls indicate Fraud in 2004

5. Mounting body of evidence pointing to error indicate Fraud in 2004

6. Vote suppression, challenges indicate Fraud in 2004

[telamachus]

30. Interent Rumors are not proof

and are you suggesting that SCOTUS has never made precedent?????

[annabanana]

32. I think he was saying that SCOTUS did never NOT make precedent

(even when they said that this ONE decision WASN'T to be used as precedent) They make precedent whether they want to or not.

[telamachus]

34. They make precedent all the time

that is the nature of the judicial branch. I do agree that i twas probably a bad idea to let the SCOTUS hear the case but it was done. I have seen no attempt to counter this so called coup. Are there problems with our elections hell yes but is there evidence that there was a 'stolen election'? There is a great deal of evidence that our system has major problems but I have seen no direct evidence that those in power have systematically stolen the past two elections. Like all conspiracy theories this one falls apart under the laws of probability.

[charlie]

36. You've got it backwards

The majority opinion declared that its ruling did NOT set precedent and that it couldn't be used in future court decisions. If that's not an odd duck, I don't know what is.

[telamachus]

39. Very odd indeed

but if you read all the words in my post you would see that I was referring to the nature of the court in general AND I dissagree that the court should not have heard the case to begin with.

[KittyWampus]

37. Gore Won The 2000 Election. That's A Proven Fact. All The Legal Ballots

were NOT COUNTED until after SCOTUS ruling.

And NO, SCOTUS has never handed down a decision and then said "Don't use this as a precedent".

Lastly, the FACTS concerning Exit Polls, Vote Suppresion and Challenges as organized tactics to steal this election are NOT RUMORS.

That is all well documented.

[telamachus]

40. First of all..

There is no evidence that those votes would have led to Gore winning. Didn't they all get counted by a press consortium? Did you forget that the issue was that there were physical problems with the ballots that led to a difference of opinion as to how they would be counted.

Of course SCOTUS made a mistake and wavered in logic but that in itself IS a precedent.

Exit polls are not FACTS they are flawed statistical tools open to many points of inaccuracies.

Vote suppression is a tactic that BOTH parties have used for centuries.

Tell me this how would a conspiracy KNOW to target Florida?

No I will not debate rumors or 'its all well documented' statements. If you can take the time to post multi source independent evidence then I will gladly look at it.

I again ask if there really was a coup then what are you doing about it?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charlie]

22. Well

Some would say that your reaction to a Canadian measure to ban transfats is very offensive to the thousands of innocents who have died around the world at the hands of REAL fascists:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1000898#1001417

You could do well to dial down the outrage a notch.

[telamachus]

31. OK?!

I don't like fascist control over my or any others life. I believe in democracy. I believe that democracies are volatile and can be bitter. Is our democracy perfect hell no but it has lasted through many years of contention.

A democracy is not a static thing it constantly shifts. Do we forget that both political parties have engaged in serious anti democratic activities throughout our history?

[charlie]

35. Hey, you're the one

who invoked dead innocents in your umbrage over some hyperbole. Turns out you're not beyond a bit of overwrought hyperbole either. Give the OP the same latitude you allow yourself, and get off your high horse.

Thanks for the lecture, though. Can't say I know what it has to do with my post, but it was a good one.

[telamachus]

38. Your one of them

forum police ain't you? Maybe if you read ALL of my post you can find the consistency. Yes dead innocents are a reality. Maybe if you would not pick and choose certain posts then you would understand how my response fit your post. The original poster has made a wild dangerous claim and wild and dangerous claims need to be met forcefully.

I am not on a high horse I am only trying to stamp out dangerous EMPTY rhetoric.

I find it quite amusing that NO ONE can give me examples of what they are doing to fight the 'coup'. Never mind the PROOF of the fantasy coup at lest tell me how people are working for change.

[charlie]

41. Yes, I'm one of them there forum police

It takes 1000 hours of arduous training to get one of these badges, not everyone's up to it y'know. Watch out for the forum CIA, they're not as easy as I am.

To recap, since it's flying over your head:

- The opinion of a sober pragmatic -

Canada considers banning transfats -- Fascism alive and well. The only thing worse than a right wing fascist is a left wing fascist.

- Empty rhetoric that dishonors the innocent dead -

To understand what's going on -- "THERE'S BEEN A MILITARY COUP."

One of these is supposedly different than the other, but I'll be damned if I can see what it is.

[telamachus]

45. Nuance..........

the devil in the details...

[Cheswick2.0]

25. LOl....stick around

there is more than one way to stage a coup. Read and learn.

[telamachus]

33. Why don't you step up

and PROVE it with FACTS that show that ther was a coup. The only place I have seen 'proof' of coup is on internet opinion sites. I am sorry but a blog or forum does not cut it for me.

If there was a coup what the heck are you doing about it??

[bloom]

44. So if the Main Stream Media does not verify something for you

- you don't beleive it - is that it?



Most people around here gave up expecting the MSM to reveal the truth to us a long time ago.

[telamachus]

46. Nope

but I like to see multiple independent varification nto stale rehashes of rumor. I listen to NPR,BBC,Free Speech Radio (and TV) Read 3 area independent news zines. Daily scan of 20-30 international news web sites and ....Salon buzzflash du etc....

I read no blogs because it is pure opinion the ultimate propaganda.

I read DU everyday because there are so many people scanning so many sources so it make DU one of the best clearing houses for world and national news.

[Skidmore]

19. So this means that Rummy is

actually president...

[robbedvoter]

21. I think he is using a metaphor. The word "military" doesn't aply

[flobee1kenobi]

23. Simple terms here, telamachus

They hold the power-
they are changing the rules today to keep from losing the power tomorrow
they control the voting
they control the media, you know what they want you to know
mabey it wasn't a coup, but how many elections will it take before action is taken
how many times are you prepared to say "we'll get em next time"?
will there be a next time?

Think I'm crazy?
embedded reporters are going away-no more live footage
soldiers have ELIMINATED a town-they say its' now liberated
Delay and co. have changed the rule of noone under indictment can lead the congressional majority
They are trying to eliminate the requirement of the president being a natural born American.
congress is working to filibuster-proof congress
Ken Blackwell calls the voting in Ohio an overwelming sucess, while people stood in line til 3 in the morning
Nov 3rd Ashcroft declared america free from terrorism-is it?
over the summer Bush declared mission accomplished-is it?
in order to see the leader of our country speak, you must pledge your loyalty
what will it take?
how much is too much?
my limit has been reached- I guess your's hasn't
enjoy your ride downhill

[telamachus]

29. Oh the mysterious "They"

what about the 49 percent who are not the they.

I wonder how many posters here have studied any history of the US. If you think that there has not been a constant state of turmoil in our democracy then I strongly sugest that you read your US history.

There has always been a strugle in our democracy and that is what keeps it strong.

"soldiers have ELIMINATED a town-they say its' now liberated" WTF are you talking about??? Rumurs and opinion on the internet do not make things true.

[rman]

47. Indeed, it's rumors and opinion on mainstream TV make things true

Besides, a statistical analysis of exit-poll data vs election results, and voter turnout data, is hardly "opinion" or "rumor", be it published on the internet or on paper.

There's to much evidence to lay out here in one post.
If nothing else, hang around and read.

If you want to know something about the part the media is playing in this, you can start with "Outfoxed" and "Orwell rolls in his grave"
www.outfoxed.org
www.orwellrollsinhisgrave.com

to learn something about why the media play that role:
www.thecorporation.com
www.reclaimdemocracy.org

[fujiyama]

27. It was a coup

but it was a bloodless judicial coup that took place 4 years ago. There was a reason I used to call Bush, "Busharraf".

Just like his military dictator buddy in Pakistan, Bush too had a referendum, where he won by 51%.

[Sideways]

43. I Still Call Bush Busharraf

They are all the same Silvio, Tony, Pervez, Vlad, Johnnie, and the now departed Aznar(or Anzar according to Bush) small nasty petty SHORT power hungry fuckwittages. BTW I think Howard stole Australia this time.

And Tony and Silvio are gonna die trying to as well.

[NAO]

48. No, It is a Religious Coup. Dominionism: well planned, advancing 20+ yrs

Conquering by Stealth and Deception - The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup
How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power By Katherine Yurica
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America
How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State By Katherine Yurica
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Links to More Articles Revealing the Rise of Dominionism in America
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DirectoryRiseOfDominionismInAmerica.html