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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:26 PM
Original message
Support the Arnold Amendment! Yes it helps our party...
I really mean that we should support it as a party... Why? One word:

Strategy


Arnold has NO chance, yes ZERO chance of winning his parties nomination for president. Let me get this straight....A pro choice, pro gun control, pro stem cell, married to a kennedy......You get the picture. Do you think the folks at Bob Jones University are going to be inviting Arnold to speak???

The people who come out in the Rep primaries are VERY conservative. Now what could be better at highlighting how much the Rep party is out of touch, out of step with the mainstream then to see them have a big fight among each other only to nominate the real "conservative"

Look at the fight in 2000. You think the primary fight with McCain actually helped Bush in any way, shape, or form? It drove independants away from Bush in droves when they saw how badly the Rep base treated McCain. You think the Evangelicals, the social conservatives are going to be nice to a liberal, foreign born Republican candidate?

When Arnold speaks we all smile, but you think his being a foreigner with an accent is going to help him in Jesusland?

I think its great that he runs for president. In the end it will only help our side. They will never, ever, nominate Arnold or Guliani or McCain. They are deluding themselves to think they even have a shot. The thought of the South Carolina Rep primary voters casting a vote for one of those mentioned guys makes me laugh.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not to mention
It certainly helps Jennifer Granholm...yowsa!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. my thoughts exactly!
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Very clever, you guys!
I like it.
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quoi Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. bingo!
I would love nothing more than a nasty, bloody, very expensive GOP primary between Frist and Arnold. Arnold would lose, but it'd be one heck of a showdown.

The Christian Right hates Arnold. If you're feeling brave, take a peek at Alan Keyes' Arnold's corruption of Republican Party. "On all the matters that touch upon the critical moral issues, Arnold Schwarzenegger is on the evil side. "

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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I just read that article
I love this quote from it.

"On all the matters that touch upon the critical moral issues, Arnold Schwarzenegger is on the evil side. This is a fact. A mere list of the positions he supports is enough to make this plain: abortion as a "right," cloning of human beings, governmental classification of citizens by race, public benefits for sexual partners outside of marriage, disrespect for property rights against environmental extremism, repudiation of the right to bear arms no more need be said to show that this candidate is wrong where human decency, human rights and human responsibility bear directly on political issues."

The thought of Arnold running in the Rep Primary would be alot of laughs!!!!! and in the end it would get us back into the White House!

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Sleepless In NY Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Please tell me you are kidding
Supporting Arnold would be like handing the 2008 presidential election to the republicans on a platter. Dont ever underestimate this guy, ever. Look what he did in California. He is extremely popular , and people just like him. I hope you dont really believe this "morality" issue bs. Born again Christians have the highest divorce rates. They have no problem forgiving their own. Look at Rush, Gingrich, Hyde, O'Reilly, etc. You are forgetting one very important fact, alot of republicans are moderates. They still voted for bush, because republicans will stick together. But throw a moderate into the mix? And you'll not only pick up republicans, but democrats. This guy won California, and you want to take a chance going against him?

New York is a very blue state, yet we elected Pataki & Guilliani. Both are pro choice & pro gay, just like Arnie. Neither ever had a problem getting elected. And when it comes to sleeping around, ask anybody in NY, Rudy has had more girl friends than Bill Clinton. Rudy & Arnie were the biggest hits at the RNC convention... the "Moral" repubs were running over to introduce their kids to them.

Can you imagine Arnie and NASCAR dads??? Forget it! Arnie projects strength. "Girlie Men" "Losers" and he gets away it! "F*** you" and Cheney gets away with it too. As long as it comes out the mouth of a republican, it never offends the "moral ones" they always have a way of excusing & forgiving & forgetting.

I can't imagine a worse scenerio than running against this guy. Men like him, Women like him, young people like him...he's the American success story. What a mightmare.

Republicans are about to start running ads in California advocating changing the constitution so he can run. And if the democrats are smart, they'll fight this with their last breath.
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. I TOTALLY agree with you, Sleepless
As a Californian who was actually BLOWN AWAY at how easily the Gropenfuhrer ascended to the throne here in our BLUE state, do NOT underestimate this guy. That could be a VERY serious mistake.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. And if you're wrong, GAME OVER... WORLD OVER!
The Radical Clerics don't have THAT much power anyway. The cash guzzlers don't care about any of those issues and Arnold would be pushed through.

So you lose 16 million fundies. How many moderates do you gain? How many dems would vote for Arnie? Independents?

Arnold has a visceral connection to many Americans. We've seen how adept the reich wing is at manipulating voters' reptilian brain centers. We do not need to give them this tool to work with.

We need to watch every single state legislator seat and make sure we have 13 states firmly in support of the constitution.
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. "Arnold has a visceral connection to many Americans."
Yes, he does. There is a deep psychological factor at work here, IMO. This is a guy who is seen as bigger than life on the movie screen. He's the Terminator! He's big and bad, and he kills the bad guys dead, dead, dead! Isn't this what the scared-to-death-of-the-bad-guys Americans want? Someone big and strong to protect them from the bad, bad guys? Regardless of who and what he is or does as a politician, that image is firmy ingrained in the collective mind of America. We do NOT need to promote any chance that this image could be used as we know it would be. JMHO, but I do live here in Call-ee-forn-e-ya.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. The founding fathers were psychic: they anticipated Arnold
In their infinite wisdom, they knew that some day a neo-crypto-fascist would arise in the West (rumor has it that Nostradamus' successor communicated with Washington). They also knew that within a couple hundred years of independence, Americans would become so lazy and stupid as a result of the great system put in place, they would get sloppy and think just about any asshole can be president. Put the two together, fascist and assholes are OK, and you've got the restriction against those born outside our states becoming president. This was the "Arnold clause."

Historians who actually have definitive proof of this are reluctant to reveal it due to fears of being called conspiracy nuts. However, the documentation exists.

LEAVE THE CONSTITUTION ALONE. DON'T KID YOURSELVES, THE PUBLIC WILL ELECT ARNOLD. IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A FASCIST STATE, MOVE TO PARAGUAY.

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.


http://www.blackboxvoting.org /
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. The Founding Fathers thought of Blacks as less than human
and they thought of women as invisible. Give me a break!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Correct. So do we throw out democracy, separation of powers,
separation of church and state, the Bill of Rights. No, they were flawed men. However, this nonsense that Arnold would never get elected is just that. He would probably win anyway. If he faced xtian obstacles, he could just convert. They forgive everything when you move under their tent.

The idea of amending OUR constitution to accommodate this steroid infused womanizer is offensive beyond belief. The constitution is ours not, not the those who tolerated the obscenity of slavery. We have modified it in a fairly responsible fashion to date. Why turn it into a joke for a jack ass movie star.

BTW, the tone of my text was obviously ironic. The black/woman comments are gratuitous. Give your self a break.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. This idea predates Arnold entering politics by decades!
It was proposed as far back as when Nixon was President by people that wanted Henry Kissinger eligible to run. We should support equality of all Americans.

But then, what can I expect from a political party that denies equality to gays and lesbians!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. You got me there.
Changing the constitution to allow a certified war criminal, Kissinger, to be president is actually worse than allowing Arnold in. The point is that the movement now is just another one of those cynical Republican techniques. I agree with you that the Democrats should support gay/lesbian rights period, no backing down.

For those who think Arnold would tear up the xtian coalition, let me remind you Orin Hatch (R) Jesusland, came up with this.

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.


http://www.blackboxvoting.org /
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree - it actually helps Mel Martinez
I'm actually in favor of the amendment, provided that there are very strict limits on who can run. NO dual citizenship, more than 20 years as a citizen, perhaps must have immigrated prior to the age of 18.

But prepare to be flamed. I made the same point. It probably helps our party more than theirs.

That being said, I see one big beneficiary of this amendment from the Republicans, and it could hurt us - Sen.-Elect Mel Martinez of Florida. If this passes, expect to see him on the ticket in '08 if Jeb doesn't run. He's actually a much more dangerous prospect than Arnold, who will NEVER be nominated by the far-right. Martinez on the other hand, would make significant inroads among Hispanics and probably help solidify Florida. It would virtually guarantee that Democrats would put Bill Richardson on the ticket (i.e. Warner-Richardson or Edwards-Richardson).

But the other big beneficiary, as some others have mentioned, is Jennifer Granholm, who would be a far more effective nominee than Hillary. Charismatic, telegenic, smart, young, governor of a big Midwestern swing state. Only problem - is she credible on national security?
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Waitasec...
Who knows if Arnold could become a bornagain?
Wouldn't that throw a wrench into your plans a little?
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. While I see your logic,
fame does silly things to people, and the Boobengrabber has taken a few pages out of bushie's book (and I don't mean "My Pet Goat"). He's a skilled PR guy.

While I may be short sighted, I detest the guy, and I have a huge problem with amending the Constitution for such silliness.
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Enrico Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm not so sure... Arnold is the GOP's wolf in sheeps clothing
I think they will need a socially softer candidate next time around and he might be exaclty what they want.... wouldn't it take a national vote to get that amendment passed anyways? I don't think it would pass anyways so we shouldn't even think about it much... when we do we just play into their hands
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. I go along with that. Arnold is a plant by the R party.
It's all a Radical Right ploy. Alan Keyes was a plant here in Illinois' Senate race. NOBODY
in their right mind, even the Radical Right, could see Keyes winning.
He got marching orders to come here and stir up some shit.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's not about Arnold. Or at least, it shouldn't be.
whether or not one supports a constitutional amendment should be about principle, not an individual.

I do support amending the constitution to allow foreign born individuals to run for president, with the caveat that they have been citizens for a very significant amount of time.

Even though I agree with you that Arnold wouldn't win the primary, even if he could, I would support the amendent.

Keeping one boneheaded republican out of office isn't worth betraying the principles I believe in. We are the party of opportunity, of of inclusion, of rights, of equality. The amendment is consistent with that.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That's my position too
n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Jennifer Granholm
Michigan Governor Granholm was born in Canada. Passing the "Arnold" Amendment would make her eligible for the Presidency. Let's bring America into the 21st century!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. No Way! Only If Someone's Lived Here 50 Years
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:00 PM by cryingshame
bare minimum.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Jingoistic!
All those Americans that betrayed their country by spying for someone else were natural born citizens!
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Right On !!!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. What A Bizarre Non Sequitor. But Typical.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. But,...
I don't think I support the amendment...irregardless of Arnold.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Don't you think a position on whether or not to amend the US Constitution
should hinge on something a bit grander than whether doing so helps or prevents an actor-turned governor get the Republican nomination for president?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. NO
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. Another NO
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ArtVandaley Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. Arnold aside, I don't like the ammendment
nt
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. You don't amend the constitution for "strategy".
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. you also don't refuse to amend it because you dislike an individual
or, at least, you shouldn't. Support or opposition should be based on principle.
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fernsibal Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. who more obvious a choice to champion
such an amendment is there than the freak Ahhhnold?

I think Clinton should spearhead an amendment allowing ex-presidents to run again if they:
1. created jobs
2. reduced the deficit
3. reduced crime rate
etc.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. I dislike the amendment, dislike Arnold as a politician,
and think you're kidding yourself about his appeal as a candidate. The Republicans will take a guaranteed winner, and Arnold is that. Look at an electoral map, move California into the red column, then figure out how a Democrat could get to 270 votes.

If Lieberman were guaranteed to win the general, he would win the party's nomination in an instant. So would Arnold.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
36. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 04:30 AM by Dem2theMax
"Arnold has NO chance, yes ZERO chance of winning his parties nomination for president"

Wanna bet? In this star struck society we live in? Where glamour, MONEY and fame are the things people look UP to? People are too blinded by the STAR factor to take the time to find out anything about the guy. They would fall in, rank and file, and put an X right next to the gropenators name.

He ain't no STAR to me. He makes me :puke:

On top of which, I still don't want anyone born outside this country to be able to be President. PERIOD.

spelling edit. :)
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