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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:19 PM
Original message
a question about southern red red red states
like, say, mississippi or alabama (not to necessarily limit discussion to those two, however).

it's my understanding that these states' populations are around 1/3 black. and blacks, of course, are 90+% democrats.

yet these states are red, red, red.

does this mean that the 2/3 of the population that are non-black are really 80+% republican?

or is voter suppression & disenfranchisement more significant than we realize?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Voter suppression and disenfranchisement is significant and
lots of people know about it. Unfortunately, not much has been done about it.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes to both questions. The GOP southern strategy has come full circle
with southerners taking over the party. That is why you see suppression in places like Ohio now- Blackwell would fit right in down here.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you answered your own question.
Don't you?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. i'll confess
my asking the question wasn't based on ignorance of the answer...
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it's the last one more than anything.
Which really pissed me off.
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socalover Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yup, my Atlanta suburb, predominantly white, went 80% Bush! nt
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Blue Dog Dem Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Let me challenge your assertion
We are not giving the blue dog dems anything to support. Our party has moved away from the middle.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what are you proposing? how do we appeal to "blue dog" dems?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. On the contrary.
The Repukes have shifted to the ultra-right, and the Dems still being center-left now appear to be far from the middle.
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. What are blue dog dems anyway?
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Blue Dog Dem Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Pro-military, social moderates, faith based, believe in redistribution
Blue Dogs are pro-military, but also very middle class oriented, we believe government can help create a larger middle class than capitalism alone will, and that private behavior is private.

That is what a blue dog democrat is.........
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You're talking aboput the average democrat.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:31 PM by Erika
And John Kerry's platform. He felt that redisribution of wealth be from the very rich to aide/acknowledge the work ethics of workers and the needs of the poor. The Bushies know nothing of true Christianity where Christ was more interested in the young and the needy than the needs of the rich. In fact, he was crucified for that belief. I'm sure somehow that Robertson/Falwell ancestors were there.
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Blue Dog Dem Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Oh, I agree, the main street Dem believes these things
I am not sure Kerry does. I am sure Edwards does not. We deserve so much better than a New England extremist and a sleazy trial lawyer to carry our banner. We might have won if the right had nominated Pat Buchanan, but they did not, we nominated the far left in our party, and no matter how much we like them, these folks are not electable. Also it was probably not wise to run a senator, they have to much history and to long a record what can be misconstrued and twisted to many different ways. We are going to have to win to promote our ideas, and to win, we gotta get in the middle.

I wonder if I should even post here, but I thought I would for a little while and see what happens.

I feel like we need to solidify what is important to us, and what is not. I feel like we started chasing the issue that was the most popular today, so that we get elected today, and we lost our core beliefs, and without those, we are not going to win.

Think about it, I know many from our party love Clinton, but we once believed in strong family values, we once believed a man should give and keep his word, we once believed in using what ever force it took to defend us, and we never used our military as a political tool. Look what Livingston did, he resigned, and we fought like hell to keep a man who committed adultery in office. That cost us 2000, now it cost us 2004, and no telling how many seats in the house and senate. Now I am not fan of Livingston, but the fact is we have been loosing elections since then, and the reason has NOTHING to do with our core beliefs, but somehow it defined us.

Our arguments of protecting SS, Medicare, a progressive income tax system, the new deal, privacy, protection of individual rights of those outside the mainstream, keeping government away from our private lives, have been over shadowed by emotional arguments like prayer in school, militant homosexuals, and the likes of Jessie Jackson and his out of wedlock kid. Democrats should have religion on our side, but we have to ACT like it, not just give religion lip service. I probably just ticked off 1/3 of our party, maybe I should deleat this and go back to watching TV.

I believe we must demand our leaders live our values, and if they will not, we must find new ones. I believe Clinton was no friend to us, he was a friend to himself only and he got us to fall on our sword for him and we have lost every major election since he got elected. Kerry was unelectable and we should never have elected him. Values, morals, character, morality, and integrity must become our values again, and when they are, we actually have to take the steps to live that way. Morals should not be a tool of the right.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Damn! Uh...you're supposed to spread that many talking points...
over several posts
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. you sure you're not White Dog Dem?
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:39 PM by arewenotdemo
username amnesty still available, I do believe...

;-)
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I consider myself a blue dog dem and the Republicans have moved far
far to the right. The Dems are dead in the center right now- they just have not been very effective at telling people thats were they are. But they need to take stands and appear to fight.. The party became infected with many post Vietnam era pink tutu's, their motto: Don't Fight back ever.. it makes us like them." They believe you have to talk likr you live at Harvard. They think holding hands and singing Kumbaya is the answer to everything. These are not the visable force in the party but the operatives.. they are a bunch of wimps.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I beg your pardon
Kerry's platform was to quit playing at war like we did in Nam, increase out troops, and establish order in Iraq.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Sorry Bluedog, if this party doesn't go back left, I'm going green.
No more pug lite.

But to the question: Southern blacks are mostly poor, and poor people don't vote. The states you mention are the poorest and least educated. And frankly - I'm from the South, I've had these conversations - blacks are demoralized. Voting doesn't change anything in their eyes. And they're right.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Blacks in Alabama
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:38 PM by quaoar
Equal about 25 percent of the population. They turned out in 2000 and in 2004 in proportion to their percentage of the total vote. In other words, blacks turned out at the same rate as whites.

Bush carried 80 percent of the white vote this year in Alabama. Kerry won more than 90 percent of the black vote.

Turnout statewide was 66 percent, the highest since 1992.
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