Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

GOP headed for civil war

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:06 PM
Original message
GOP headed for civil war
It's been said better by others, but the bottom line is that the GOP will eat itself over the next four years as the extremists and the moderates do battle. You can see that already happening with this wave of resignations/force outs at the CIA. But Arlen Specter (who was smacked by Bill Frist today) is caught in the middle of what might be GOP Armageddon. Over on freerepublic, someone posted a long, threatening rant that if Bush/GOP did not overturn Roe v. Wade during the next four years, fundies would desert the party in droves. It's quite a screed.... and has drawn almost 1,500 comments -- way more than any other post I've ever seen over there (and I lurk there a lot to see what's going on with them). Read the "declaration" and then some of the comments -- this bunch is headed for a civil war. My view is that Roe will not be overturned, and that this will become a crisis for them in four years. And no, the pro-lifers won't turn to the Dems; or a third party -- they'll stay home. As the the "Pro-Life Warning to the Republican Party" suggests.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279039/posts

The Gonzales nomination for AG also has them very nervous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pop some popcorn and pull up a chair !!
THIS might be the only thing worth watching over the next couple years.

I only hope there's enough left of this country for Dem leadership to put back tohgether in 06/08.



:hippie:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I ain't goin' nowhere!
the country will be here; all of us who believe in the Democratic party and liberal causes everywhere will be here; these Republican fuckers are having their day -- and I gnash my teeth as hard as anyone -- but the wheel keeps turning and will grind them to dust far more quickly than most imagine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh thank you Jesus!
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:11 PM by bushwentawol
Yup, if the gop doesn't turn completely over to the fetus lovers there's gonna be hell to pay. This I hope to god is the zenith of the gop. It's going to be an awful crash when it comes.
What I still can't believe is that there are many repugs who still think that their party is the party of Ike.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. And who said that nothing good came out of the election?
If I can have a ringside seat at these idiots tear each other apart, then at least I'll be able to get something out of this fucking eleciton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ha Ha Ha... Will be fun to watch eom


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is why I say WE need to draft a Constitution Candidate!
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. We already have one, mzmolly.
You know who it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. We might be better off giving our money to the Constitution Candidate...
...than to the DNC. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. That's the way I've been operating.
You too? ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. My, my, my, my, my...
I think we may be on to something here!

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. here in Illinois it will be fun to watch
the republicans fight for control of their party. after the keyes debacle, god only knows who will take control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Do keep us posted, will you kindly?!
I'll buy you a bag of popcorn!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Imagine this:
Bush unwittingly appoints a Souter or a Kennedy or an O'Connor in 2005.

This justice then makes a number of less-than-Scalia votes in the following session.

We gloat about it, dancing around in our homes, our party's representatives cheering Bush's appointee on the talking heads shows, etc etc.

Can you imagine the frustration of the fundies?
Veins popping-out of James Dobson's head on Wolf Blitzer's show?
Ralph Reed frowning.. in that stick-up-his-ass way he frowns?
Jerry Falwell predicting a rain of toads on the ranch in Crawford?

Meanwhile, Pelosi is on there praising "the wisdom of the court, and the wisdom of its new member, Justice X."
A rep from the ACLU will be on there smiling away, lauding the ruling as "justice for all involved."

Wow! I can smell the frustration and desperation from here!

I'd say that one contribution to why Bush I lost in 1992 was when he appointed Souter. The fundies lost any fire they had for him.

I hope and pray for such a scenario to develop. It'd be a godsend to us.. (pun intended)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PlanetBev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. They'll never appoint a Souter, O'Connor or Kennedy again
The Federalist Society will pick the next judges. And, believe me, they'll be anti-choice. They have no qualms about tearing this country to pieces.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Isn't Kennedy pretty much a RW hack?
I know that he's not as bad as thomas, scalia, or rhenquist, but didn't he vote the wrong way on Bush v Gore and almost all other 5 to 4 issues?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. I guess it depends whay you mean by RW hack
Both O'Connor and Kennedy are committed conservatives. Contrary to popular media lies, they are not moderates, they only appear so because they are in the "middle" of a center-right SC. So you are right that they often side together in 5-4 conservative decisions.

I don't think either are "hacks," however. Both relish their positions as "swing voters" on the court. It allows them to write the controlling opinions and therefore possibly have a larger legacy than they otherwise might.

People think that O'Connor is more middle of the road because she saved Roe in Casey, but she really isn't; she's just a conservative who also happens to believe in women's rights.

Kennedy is a true intellectual conservative (instead of crazy reactionary like the Scalia-Thomas-Rehnquist trifecta). His main problem is he is also a wuss. More than once, his initial vote on a case would have thrown the decision to the center-left wing of the court, but then he relented after considerable lobbying by Scalia et al. He is often afraid to go out on a limb if somebody convinces him it really is a limb. However, given the opportunity, he'll write the swing decision for the conservative majority that leaves a tiny glimmer of hope for the liberal side. He did that in the recent Pennsylvania redistricting case.

If you are really interested, I recommend Closed Chambers by Edward Lazarus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Lawrence vs. Texas, Affirmative action...
Isn't O'Connor usually on the left and Kennedy on the right of these decissions? Bush v Gore is the only one that I remember them both taking the wrong stance on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. There are lots of examples of O'Connor and Kennedy
voting together to give the win to the reactionary three.

Here are some:
Gratz v. Bollinger (the other MI affirmative action case, saying plan was NOT ok)
Pliler v. Ford (AEDPA case limiting rights of habeas petitioners)
Vieth v. Jubelirer (Pennsylvania redistricting--Kennedy was the swing vote to the bad side on this one, but left the door open)
Illinois v. Lidster (arrest during a random traffic checkpoint didn't violate 4th Amendment)
Zelman v. Simmons-Harris (vouchers OK to pay for religious schools)

All of the cases I named are not 5-4, but they are all examples of O'Connor and Kennedy joining together on the "wrong stance." Unfortunately I loaned my copy of Closed Chambers to a friend and I don't have the energy to go digging through my criminal procedure notes to see if I can find more. Suffice it to say, Kennedy, although a more middle of the road conservative than Scalia, Thomas, Rehnquist, rarely has the stomach to hand the win to the Stevens side of the court, so he will swing right more often than not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Are you a lawyer OrwellwasRight?
This law student thinks you know the structure and substance of the legal system pretty well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Shhhh
You've discovered my secret. But I was recently where you are now (graduated in '02) so I will listen to you rant about law school any time you like.

BTW, one of my very best friends in law school was a single mom and I just had so much awe for her. Many days in law school (and even some days now), I felt like I could barely take care of myself and my kitty cat. I could not have been responsible for a whole other life (or lives). So you go on with yer bad self LawStudentMom!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Appreciate your kind words ...
but I am a married mom (my husband of 20+ years provides a whole lot of support).

Actually, in one more week, I am going to know if I passed the Bar (I graduated in June 2004).

Then I will proudly change my name to ... I will have to think of something new.

I do have an 8-year-old daughter that I have to be a shining example for ... poor English (excuse).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Good luck!
Even with a husband (and a helpful one at that), I'm sure it was tough sometimes, so you've earned your props!

If you're still waiting, you must be in Cali. I know it's the toughest, and my fingers are crossed for you. Please let us know the good news (or let us help console you just in case that's necessary, too). :fingerscrossed:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #69
74. Thanks.
And, yes, I'm in good ol' SoCal - the Inland Empire (Riverside/San Bernardino Counties) - a red fundie pocket. Oh, well. I'll let everything know this Saturday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Still_Loves_John Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
71. Thats genius
As long as the justice is anywhere to the left of Scalia, we should act like we loooove him. Dems should treat him like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and the conservatives will have a huge internal battle over it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Bingo.
We need to take advantage of their greed. They control everything now, so they're expecting to get 100% of things their way. If "only" 98% of things go their way, they will be unhappy about it - especially if we're jubilant about them. They like getting their goals attained, but part of their goal is to see our side down in the dumps. If they see us happy over something - even a crumb - they'll rage in childlike fury.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poor Richard Lex Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. is there anything we can do to further it along? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Absolutely
PM me if you want a concrete suggestion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juliewolf Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Roe v. Bush
This was so worth signing on for!

--julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
76. Hi juliewolf!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Roe won't be overturned because corporations
would find themselves shelling out for a whole lot more maternity leaves and losing cheaper workers to forced childbirth.

If corporate America doesn't feel it's in their best interest, it won't be done. However, don't expect the right to stop yapping about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. and getting those Supreme Court votes won't be as easy as assumed...
with every day that passes, Roe becomes more and more "settled" law. It may be forever be a 5-4 issue.... but my feeling -- and it is nothing more than that -- is that the 5 will always be to uphold.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Where do you get the fifth guy?
O'Connor and ESPECIALLY Stevens are well overdue for retirement. Kennedy is a partisan RW hack and I highly doubt that he will switch to affirm Roe v Wade. Unless they put another souter on the court, Roe v Wade is gone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. Even though I would vote pro-choice
as a single issue if I had to (e.g., I would NEVER support an anti-choice candidate for any office ever), I am actually more afraid of the permanent destruction the SC will continue to do to this country in two areas:

1) Civil rights & liberties -- these were already in danger even before the USA PATRIOT Act; they have given policie almost unlimited rights to search us, our cars,and passengers during ANY routine traffic stop, e.g.

2) So-called "property rights" -- this is the means by which the Repubs are stopping attempts to control sprawl, limit old-growth logging and road building, retain open space and critical habitat, etc. They just passed a devastating initiative in so-called "liberal" Oregon which will effectively limit all local zoning and planning laws because it will require already cash-strapped local governments to compensate all property owners everytime they pass any ordinance that might limit additional development. I find this movement especially criminal and destructive of the near-dead concept of "community."

Repubs make me more angry than I can say. :grr: :grr: :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. Corporations could just cut back on maternity benefits
The FMLA guarantees unpaid leave, so corps could just change their policies to make all leaves unpaid. Cheaper for them, and it would fit in with the recent pattern of reducing health benefits, pension benefits, etc.

Also, if the "cheaper" workers left due to pregnancy, there'd be another even cheaprer worker right behind her waiting to take the job.

Given the behavior of multinationals, I am not convinced that overturning Roe v. Wade wouldn't be in their perceived interest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. Wow, an excellent analysis, Orwell.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Thanks, LSM! :-) nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm happy we're not in their shoes...
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. You cannot take two extremes and wed them into a mandate.
The Corporations and the Fundamentalists are control freaks with opposite agendas. It will be interesting to see who is slighted first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. It'll be the the Fundies; they haven't got as much moolah.
But it will be fun to watch, unless it gets too bloody. I never liked gore shows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Are you sure?
Oh well, I hope you're right. It will be interesting to watch. When they start attacking from the pulpit, will they be investigated like the NAACP?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. There aren't moderates in FR--there are very few moderates
in the whole of the Republican party now. The few who are left, like Specter, are being ousted.

There are only some people at FR who are finally, finally realizing that they've sold their party and their souls for the sake of winning, for the sake of power.

The ultimatum given Specter by Frist recently, the cleaning out of the CIA--whew.

Some people are just NOW figuring this out? It's amazing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kcr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't think so
I think that as along as the extermist faction has the power to punish people who stray, then the moderates will be kept in line. They won't like it, but I think they will stay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. This will be the issue that splits them.
I honestly think this will be the one. Either way, they lose. Overturn it, and you lose the moderates and old schoolers. Keep it, and you lose the fundies. Both of them make up a significant part of their base.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You just nailed it.
If Bush makes an appointee this year, and if a challenge reaches the high court by 2008, the GOP is skrewed. Just guessing, but I'd bet that the GOP candidate gets a -5% popular vote penalty for 2008 if this happens, no matter what the ruling says.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. how can we help
accelerate everything?

what wedges can we drive?

what flammable liquids can we splash on every spark?

I just want to be helpful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. leave them alone to destroy themselves...
while we turn our energies to developing candidates and positions to fill the hole in the ground that is left behind by the explosion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well. let's help it along whenever we can! Got my "Draft Young Republican
button on and my 'Bush Lied, People Died' bumper sticker blazing at them to keep the fires of hypocrisy burning
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Oh, I like the "Draft Young Republicans" one! That's great!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Minus World Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. Unity from Dissolution
From 2000 to 2004, there was a comfortable consensus within the ranks of Bush supporters; the neoconservatives made strategic concessions towards fundamentalists, and both extremist groups, in turn, found it necessary to appease the moderates.

We are now seeing the shedding of pretense, as Bush has adopted neither a policy radical enough for the religious zealots who supported him, nor a stance moderate enough to assuage already bubbling doubt of paleoconservatives who walked into the booth believing their vote for Bush was one for values and moderation.

My concern is that Bush cares not for the support of these groups, but only for the unchallenged power he has accrued.

When he is abandoned both by rational conservatives and armageddon-afficionados alike, the facade will have fallen to the ground - leaving uninformed America to stare in awe at the bloody inner-workings of tyrrany once disguised as democracy, while those of us who have known all along, simply shake our heads in resignation.

When such disaster strikes, do you not think that Bush will create circumstances which will assist him in attaining absolute power? That he would work outside of the laws of morality and ethics to do so? Has he not proven his capacity for that yet?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. This will be fun.


Awaiting the implosion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
35. I told myself that would happen over the last almost 4 years. They just
consolidated and got more systemic. I'm not sure they will self destruct they have such long roots. I think we have to awaken the masses that dance to their magic flute. We have to filibuster everything they do, email the media constantly and organize our opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. GOP, maybe, but BFEE will florish. No party needed in an empire

''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And
while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll
act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and
that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you,
all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
Bush aide to Ron Suskind
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
37. "GOP headed for civil war"- **The Prequel**
Yep...I think I'm gonna enjoy this.


James Dobson
The religious right's new kingmaker.


"...He's already leveraging his new power. When a thank-you call came from the White House,
Dobson issued the staffer a blunt warning that Bush "needs to be more aggressive" about pressing
the religious right's pro-life, anti-gay rights agenda, or it would "pay a price in four years."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109621/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. I wish I could be as optimistic as the rest of you....
but the GOP has been jerking the Fundies around promising to overturn
Roe for 25 years now. They never deliver, but they keep on promising.

Maybe the Fundies have gotten sick of this game and will hold Republican
feet to the fire over it this time. I certainly hope so. But the GOP learned
in 2000 not to take these people for granted, and spent mucho time courting
them. If someone believes God wants Bush to be President, this is not some-
one with much critical thinking or will of their own, so will they turn on God's
choice when he doesn't come through?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
40. I'm sorry but this is just the kind of belief
that could keep us from doing the work that we need to do.

I believe that the pro-lifers will NOT abandon the GOP no matter what they threaten because they have no place to go. Only a miniscule proportion of people in this country (right or left) will ever vote third party in a national election until we change to proportional voting, instant run-off, or some other system that will allow people to believe that their vote will not be "wasted." It's also unlikely that we'll see droves of people go from voters to non-voters. Voting behavior is heavily predicited by parental voting habits, education, and and voting participation in the previous election. Thus, it is unlikely that we will see significant numbers of 2000 voters simply stop participating in the system.

We cannot be complacent that the GOP will implode (although I'd like, no, love to see it). We cannot even include it in our plans. We have to be strategizing to beat a GOP potentially stronger than the one we faced on 11/2. I'm glad they're debating it and wasting their time on it, but let's do our own thing.

Also, as has been pointed out in another thread I read recently, the GOP may not even want to win on the abortion issue. If they get it outlawed, they may become vicitms of their own success (something like what happened to the Dems after the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, some people thought the work was done). Having the abortion windmill to tilt at brings in the cash on a regular basis, but if they won that battle, they may indeed see a loss of a cash cow.

Finally, let's not count on another Souter being appointed again--ever. Rove et al have proven themselves amazingly astute. They know exactly who their picking, and no one on their list is anything other than a Scalia clone borm and bred and the bowels of the Federalist Society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
41. Hey, it really doesn't matter because their vote will count whether they
case it or not if you catch my drift! In pug counties now more votes are cast than registered voters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. They're not the only ones headed for civil war judging from this board
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MileHiStealth Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. Peeps ... quit using "pro-life" ... its "pro-birth" ...
They don't give a rats ass about you once you crawl out of the womb ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
44. Ha ha.. takes lots of popcorn


So funny.. they are infighting.. See Rove got his way..but will not be able to keep the promises..
The party will fall apart now.
Divided they fall..

They will fall
Push the radical clerics and their followers to the constitution party
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
47. How did Frist smack Spector today?
I missed it. Are they still trying to get him off of the Judiciary Committee? I've been avoiding the news. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. If I'm not mistaken
I only have listened as the baby was crying, but I think they basically said that Specter must approve all of Bush's appointees - or else!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Oh really?
Or else what? Can they vote in another chairman of the Judiciary? Does he HAVE to step down if they want him to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I think so
I think they would put in another chairman unless he promised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Yes, parties can pick their own chairs
Even though it is typically based on seniority, they can do it, but it would be a slap in the face of all Senate moderates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Didn't see today, but Thursday night
he gave a speech basically saying they are going to change the Seante rules to eliminate the fillibuster so that the Dems can't block votes on the nominees. This would take the wind out of Specter's position that Repubs have to work "with" the Democrats to find candidates that will be acceptable. Now, they can simply ignore us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nine30 Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
52. Actually , I admire their focus
which however is not to mean I agree with their position. I used to think these fundies were die hard Republicans just for the sake of being so and agreed with most, if not all, the positions of Republican party, including foreign policy, taxes etc.

But when I read the frequent threats "..or else we will let the Democrats destroy everything that YOU believe in..", with the 'you' capitalized, it meant that they aren't blind supporters of the Repukes. They have a very specific agenda that they passionately believe in which has nothing to do with wars, world domination, tax cuts for the wealthy..etc. And because their fanaticism is SO extreme, they were willing to overlook/forgive the murder of 100,000+ innocent REAL LIVING flesh and bones adults and children, just in the hopes of saving some gooey of undifferentiated cells some day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
57. Geez those fuckers are crazy
and I didn't even read the freeper posts. I say that because you would THINK they'd be THRILLED their little puppet boy stole the election again, but nooooo, instead they are freaking out and eating each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguewolf5 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
58. Yeah but who says they wont drag us with them?
I mean if half the country will vote for their leader, what makes us think that we'll be safe over here?

They control it all, straight up full power. Whatever internal war they wage, it is likely to spill over externally.

Much like the plausible one in our party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. they won't push for roe v wade
they need it to get elected. same with the FMA. they will try to keep it on the front burner w/o actually doing anything about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
64. well, here is a southern democrat . . .
that says kiss my ass.

southern democrats are what you NEED. so don't piss us off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Did someone say something negative
about southern Democrats?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
67. DO NOT CALL THEM "PRO-LIFERS"
these are the same bastards who think killing innocent Iraqi civilians is just A-OK
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
68. It ain't necessarily so. The GOP is very adept at control.
I would not pin hopes on a GOP in-fight. They did not get to where they are now because they suck at organization.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
70. It could be that they'll both attack each other and cancel each other out
It could also be that the Dominionists will demolish the moderate Republicans and take over the party. Bush owes them, he knows it and they know it too, and if he gives into them they will simply take what is offered and insist on more. If they decide to feed the dragon rather than face it we're all screwed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
73. what is the "nuclear option" they keep talking about in the freeper thread
excuse my ignorance...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. Bill Frist is advocating that the GOP change the rules re: confirmation
of judges. So that we can't filibuster to stop the confirmation of ultra-right loonbags, and they can be confirmed with a straight majority. It is a totally unprecedented move in the 228 years of our nation, but of course they don't give a shit about that... They call it the "nuclear option" because once they pull that kind of thing, they leave themselves open to a democratic senate majority under a future democrat president doing the same thing to them. Although I guess as long as Diebold is counting the "votes" (wink, wink) that's not much of a worry.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Ugh...well, karma is a bitch sometimes...
i can see them trying this...long-term planning has never been a forte of thiers.

peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
77. Whoa! Read this reply!
"With all respect, and in full agreement with your position on abortion, I would
remind you that if we do not will the war against radical Islam, abortion will
cease to be an issue for Christians, because all the Christians will be dead."

Huh? Exactly under which circumstances will the several billion Muslims manage to exterminate the several billion Christians? These people are screwed up to believe this shit.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul 26th 2014, 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC